question Just another chargeback on PayPal. Any Suggestion?

[matrigaldo]

Hello guys,
Recently it happened to me to receive some chargebacks on PayPal from buyers with dishonest attitude.
They're related to some transactions through eBay, mostly under $50.
Today i received a chargeback of a mid $xxx transaction completed more than 1 month ago.

The domain has been correctly pushed to the buyer account (on GoDaddy) the same day of the transaction, and i've also received a positive feedback from him.
Currently the domain is owned by the buyer, with no changes since the push, and the name of the owner is the same of the PayPal account name. However, address and phone number seem to be different.

Today's chargeback has been requested because of a unauthorized credit-card payment claimed by the buyer bank and advised directly to PayPal through the buyer account (where the credit card is associated).

I already provided a detailed explaination with WHOIS information (link and screenshot), eBay Feedback evidence (link and screenshot) and waiting for some other documents from GoDaddy.

Oh, regarding GoDaddy, i called them asking if they can provide me some kind of documents as proof the domain has been pushed to the buyer account, and anything they can do for this kind of disputes. The guy at the support told me to send an email to [email protected] explaining everything, they have a dedicated department and will provide me anything within 48-72 hours. However i've not received anything until now (about 8 hours ), neither an automatic reply.

I'm quite sure this case is just a douc**bag trying to get both money and domain, because right after the transaction he tried repeatedly to involve me in some kind of e-commerce with products from China.

However, this kind of chargeback (unauthorized payment from the bank directly) is different from the usual "i didn't receive the domain" with identical WHOIS data , and make me think i need to wait for months before to see these money again. And in the meantime my PayPal balance is negative until i fill it with my money, and it's really, really, really annoying.

Any suggestion? Did it happen to you too? Any way to help (and speed) PayPal work making it easier to figure out?

 

[Name Trader]

I predict that you won't get any help from Domain Disputes Dept. I don't think you will win the case at PayPal either. I would always use an escrow service for selling domains to people you don't know, for everything over $100, or whatever your comfort level is. It appears that you are uncomfortable with the mid $xxx level. For smaller amounts, they could always use Western Union.

 

[AEProgram]

You are making certain assumptions that are most likely very wrong.

You are assuming that the person who paid you was the owner of that account. That is most likely not the case at all. This means that there is no way paypal will give you anything as you got paid using a stolen credit card / hacked paypal account etc.

Remember, this guy can setup a godaddy account with any info to match the hacked account.

Provide godaddy with all the proof and they should return the name to you. They are a helpful bunch if you help them that is with data that is as clear as possible and proper proof.

You are lucky the real account holder noticed this now because in a bit more time the scammer would have removed it from godaddy and it would be way more complex to get it back.

This is rare but it happens.

 

[matrigaldo]

I ALWAYS tend to use Escrow services (such as Sedo, Afternic or Escrow.com directly) for domain sales over $100 / $150, it's really rare i accept PayPal payments but in this case i assumed PayPal Seller Protection on eBay would have "protected" me by scammers or frauds. It already happened to me in the past, and i always won all the disputes.

This time the source of the chargeback seems to be different, and the "unauthorized payment" reason never happened before.

I asked GoDaddy (at domaindisputes @ godaddy.com ) if they can prevent any transfer out of the domain even after the 60 days limitation, together to all the other infos and requests, but even today i got no reply. In 2 weeks the new owner will be able to move out the domain, and considering PayPal disputes can last even for months......

 

[S-B]

I use Paypal for just about everything and have never had a problem. I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.

 

[Domainzy]

Sorry to hear this happened to you, and sorry for the next time. This is extremely common, and it happens all day everyday with paypal and banks.

Bitcoin.... NO charge backs. Its Instant. No fees. Its Global. Always on your phone ready to pay.

Paypal....Charge Backs! not really instant. 3% +.30cents, limited to certain countries, Kinda on your phone.

If there is a dispute, you don't have to ask paypal for 'documentation', with Bitcoin the transaction is recorded on the PUBLIC blockchain, viewable by anyone.

Bitcoin payments are final, not reservable ever, no bank or anyone can take control of your account, not without your password.


Its a choice!

 

[carob]

I ALWAYS tend to use Escrow services (such as Sedo, Afternic or Escrow.com directly) for domain sales over $100 / $150, it's really rare i accept PayPal payments but in this case i assumed PayPal Seller Protection on eBay would have "protected" me by scammers or frauds.

I think it only applies to a verified Paypal buyer and may not cover digital goods - worth checking - a lot of people get into trouble making assumptions about how the Seller Protection works.

 

[S-B]

Seller protection does not cover digital items. However, bank chargebacks work differently.

 

[iridium]

If there is a dispute, you don't have to ask paypal for 'documentation', with Bitcoin the transaction is recorded on the PUBLIC blockchain, viewable by anyone.

Bitcoin payments are final, not reservable ever, no bank or anyone can take control of your account, not without your password.

Its a choice!

Bitcoin is all nice and dandy and most certainly better than centralised e-currencies like WebMoney or PerfectMoney...

BUT the reality is that it is very complicated to actually obtain the said Bitcoins. Its a tedious process just to setup and synchronise the basic wallet client. Then you must to through an exchange company to acquire the bitcoins, a process which usually involves sending a wire or physically going somewhere to make a cash deposit. You get hit with fees in the process and it is time consuming doing so. Until the money is in your bitcoin wallet, you are trusting your money with a third party: the exchange company.

If you are selling the domain, then ok the burden mentioned above is on the buyer. But you will have to go through the same process through an exchange company if you wish to cash out and for example need to pay rent, dinner or something Again you are hit with fees, the third-party risk, and on top of that fluctuations in the exchange rates...

If the buyer already has bitcoins they want to use, and if the seller wants or needs bitcoins, then this is all good. But most of the time you are not in this scenario. It's already difficult enough to close a deal, that making Bitcoin a requirement for the buyer is simply not realistic.
And it will be generally faster and easier and probably even cheaper to secure the transaction through Escrow.com.

 

[matrigaldo]

I think it only applies to a verified Paypal buyer and may not cover digital goods - worth checking - a lot of people get into trouble making assumptions about how the Seller Protection works.

The buyer protection doesn't cover digital goods as well, but however in one case, just last month, i had a chargeback from a chinese guy which doesn't even try to make a small effort to translate my email with Google Translate, then he didn't know why i haven't pushed the domain to him and keep going telling me his GoDaddy infos. The domain was on Moniker.
When he created a chargeback request, PayPal spent less than one week to decide he had to be paid back (we're talking about low $xx amount), even if i showed them all my efforts and my emails / communications and stated i've lost the domain (which is expired in the meantime).

So if they don't cover digital goods for buyers but gave money back to this one, it means it's kinda "discretionary".

 

[laladomains]

Sorry to hear that. hope for happy ending for you.
It's very interesting to read all the posts here.
I wonder If the Seller protection worked for those who selling domains via Flippa auction and accept PayPal payments?

 

[xCaribbeanboy]

Try accepting Bitcoin it's cannot be reversed

 

[RaiderX]

People keep suggesting Bitcoin as if it's 100% better than Paypal. Calm down, it isn't even completely stable yet it could go down or go up any second.

 

[matrigaldo]

Exactly, and by the way, it's not the point of this thread.

 

[Name Trader]

Sorry to hear this happened to you, and sorry for the next time. This is extremely common, and it happens all day everyday with paypal and banks.

Bitcoin.... NO charge backs. Its Instant. No fees. Its Global. Always on your phone ready to pay.

Paypal....Charge Backs! not really instant. 3% +.30cents, limited to certain countries, Kinda on your phone.

If there is a dispute, you don't have to ask paypal for 'documentation', with Bitcoin the transaction is recorded on the PUBLIC blockchain, viewable by anyone.

Bitcoin payments are final, not reservable ever, no bank or anyone can take control of your account, not without your password.

Its a choice!

I don't use Bitcoin or any service like it. But it seems to me there is a huge currency risk or opportunity when using Bitcoin. You could lose your shirt or buy a mercedes

 

[ebiz]

Use a well written contract , take screen shots of everything , try to get any and all information from and about the buyer , go into the sale expecting troubles and you will be better prepped when these low lives pull this shit.

Then in worst cases destroy the value of the domain you sold by spamming it with every porn and nasty link you can find , gambling and every illegal item you can find , play dirty right back
Try to find any other domains the buyer owns via server searches and extract the damage from everything they own. F%4k em !

 

[carob]

So if they don't cover digital goods for buyers but gave money back to this one, it means it's kinda "discretionary".

What I read on various forums discussing this, is that Ebay "forget" their own TOS - you have to specifically quote to them the part about digital goods and remind them that a domain is a digital good. Did that happen in this case and they still gave the refund?

As you said, seller protection does not apply to digital goods. I looked again and saw no mention of it only applying to buyers with a verified Paypal account, but maybe it does say that somewhere.

Here's a weird loophole someone found - no idea if it has been fixed
http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/PAYPAL-SE...UT-FOR-2nd-LOOPHOLE-/10000000009460774/g.html

 

[Vinod R]

Best option is to find other alternative payment methods, most of them would be slow than Paypal but more safer. As you may be aware that paypal has extended the seller protection duration.

 

[matrigaldo]

What I read on various forums discussing this, is that Ebay "forget" their own TOS - you have to specifically quote to them the part about digital goods and remind them that a domain is a digital good. Did that happen in this case and they still gave the refund?

As you said, seller protection does not apply to digital goods. I looked again and saw no mention of it only applying to buyers with a verified Paypal account, but maybe it does say that somewhere.

Here's a weird loophole someone found - no idea if it has been fixed
http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/PAYPAL-SE...UT-FOR-2nd-LOOPHOLE-/10000000009460774/g.html

Then *THEORICALLY* i should be covered by seller protection because the reason is "Unauthorized payment" but if they figure out it's a digital good, i wouldn't be able to get the money back, and probably also lose the domain?

So eBay has built a perfect marketplace for scammers.

 

[vivaldi]

So eBay has built a perfect marketplace for scammers.

Indeed they have, combined with Paypal it's the perfect platform for scammers.