status-resolved Is an asking price the same as Buy It Now?

[Keith]

Hi all,

Just what the title says. If someone says they’re asking $10 for a domain and you agree to pay $10, is it binding per NP rules?

 

[Samer]

Keep in mind, the buyer offered $6k, then $7k, etc... not $10k and after the seller rejected them all and stated they decided to keep the domain for more money, the buyer then came back at $10k, hoping they didn't already lose the deal in negotiating the price, they and another member posted in the make offer listing as well, after negotiations and rejections started.

The chain of events changes things a bit.

“Chain of events” occurred private messages.

They should not be known to the public, and far as concerned, dont alter the “asking $10k”

“Negotiation” shouldve ended seller “hard ask” in title met; regardless of “make offer” section.
What happened in Private convo stays there, and I still dont see anything changed meaning “Asking $10k” in title. Just negotiations in PM before seller opted finally list title “Asking 10k”

This was deliberately listed in “make offer” and the terms of the title “Asking $10k” were met.
Keith met seller title terms aftr PM negotiation,
that should change nothing. would expect any shrewd investor to attempt negotiate on asset, before acquiescing to “asking $10k” in the title.

 

[Ategy]

Lack of clarity and specificity really makes this look like a bad situation.

Ultimately the question that remains is .. is the listing and language "asking $10k" a binding contract when in the context of "Make Offer"?

I'd say that ethically it "feels" like it should be a sale to Keith.

But legally is this even a contract/binding agreement? I'm not so sure.

Here's a critical flaw to the legal argument that give me hesitation. What if the seller sold the domain in the meantime outside the scope of the NamePros?

Yes the seller should be scorned for lack of clarity and/or ethics .. maybe even reprimanded on the NamePros side of thing for creating a bad listing. But because it was in Make Offer, it leads me to think the seller isn't obligated to keep exclusivity of negotiations on NamePros .. which in turn ultimately means there is no legal/firm agreement until both sides confirm an agreement of sale with each other.


That's the technical way I see it ... but again .. not sure I'm comfortable with what I just said from a purely moral perspective. I feel bad for you @Keith .. legal or not .. it's a frustrating situation.


Good luck getting this resolved either way.

 

[Ategy]

Keep in mind, the buyer offered $6k, then $7k, etc... not $10k and after the seller rejected them all and stated they decided to keep the domain for more money, the buyer then came back at $10k, hoping they didn't already lose the deal in negotiating the price, they and another member posted in the make offer listing as well, after negotiations and rejections started.

The problem with this argument is that his $10k offer was not in the context of the ongoing negotiation .. it was in context to the still open (to *anybody*) asking price of $10k. So definitely the private negotiations are irrelevant. What matters is the judgement of language in the title of "asking $10k". The only question that matters is whether that "asking $10k" is binding in the context of anyone offering that specifically designated asking price.

I'm not so sure because of what I mentioned in my post above .. but I just wanted to say that any private negotiations are not at all relevant because the theoretical asking price of $10k was still theoretically there *in public* (open to anyone) .. beyond that it needs to be clearly judged whether that in itself is binding .. or not?


ADDED: Ultimately I suppose this is the "official" answer to that question:

Conclusion: Make offer Forum coupled with the word "Asking" provides context that the seller is open to negotiation.

 

[karmaco]

@jberryhill I’m a hair away from legal action against this forum and the seller.

Threats against NamePros is going too far and I hope its been duly noted.

 

[carob]

To me this whole scenario flags up something I have thought for some time - probably belongs in the What Should NP Add thread:

Listings threads should present the OP with a form with required fields.

We get endless threads that have no budget, for example, then a mod posts in thread saying supply budget within 48 hours - meantime the thread stays live and people, understandably, keep replying to the OP, not wanting to miss out. So rather than just hide those threads till budget supplied, which takes mod time, why not just force the thread creator to supply the info before the thread can be created?

Likewise here, if to list as make offer you have to indicate in a field if there is a BIN, the issue we see with melatonin.com would never happen again.

 

[Abdillahi Abdillahi]

For clarification purposes:

Thread: https://www.namepros.com/threads/melatonin-com-asking-10k.1186787/
Forum listed in: Make Offer
Title statement: "Asking $10k"
Moderator actions: The thread originated in the make offer forum and was not moved there by a moderator.

Conclusion: Make offer Forum coupled with the word "Asking" provides context that the seller is open to negotiation.

Seller rejected your negotiation offer:

2nd negotiation rejection by seller:

Once a negotiation is terminated, all offers are no longer binding. Which means that anything offered after the last rejected offer is a new negotiation.

Unfortunately, the seller is no longer bound to sell, however, we do require that they provide proof of ownership for the domain now, for security reasons.

Added note:

Melatonin Purveyor, Yesterday at 9:33 AM CT- Thanks for the offer on the amount. I'd like to hold and see if I can get a higher amount.

Keith, Yesterday at 2:54 PM CT - Ok, $10,000. What is your email so I can start the escrow transaction? Please edit the title of your thread to say sold.

As we can see from the time-stamps in this conversation by scrolling up, the seller rejected your offer and clearly stated they want to hold it for a higher amount. That means that your $10k offer after the fact they rejected the offer before it and stated they want to hold it now, is not a binding agreement to sell to you. It was the beginning of a new negotiation attempt.

We can certainly understand the frustration of the buyer hoping to acquire an asset like this for $10k, however, there was no clear and solid agreement. The seller rejected multiple offer attempts by the buyer. Once the buyer realized the seller was not going negotiate that low and after the seller made it clear they wanted to hold off to see if they can get an even higher amount, the buyer came back to renegotiate at $10k, which the seller never acknowledged or agreed to after terminating the negotiations previously.

After the fact, the new member/seller (Not familiar with the domain industry or the value of their asset) did verify they are the owner of the domain name in question.

We hope that helps clarify a bit more.

For internal use only: https://www.namepros.com/conversations/melatonin.3097150/
For internal use only: https://namepros.reamaze.com/admin/conversations/1698?id_type=ref

Keep in mind, the buyer offered $6k, then $7k, etc... not $10k and after the seller rejected them all and stated they decided to keep the domain for more money, the buyer then came back at $10k, hoping they didn't already lose the deal in negotiating the price, they and another member posted in the make offer listing as well, after negotiations and rejections started.

The chain of events changes things a bit.

You guys are doing great and have taken the right thing. I mentioned before in this thread. @Keith , even though he SAW that the Asking 10K, he went to the PM and was negotiating to lower the price, offering 6, 7 K. Then to come here and complain doesn't make sense. Why negotiate if you actually understood the asking price as a BIN?

Threats against NamePros is going too far and I hope its been duly noted.

Agreed, what is worse, is this has no grounds at all. And to all others who are agreeing with Keith, while I respect your opinions, ask yourselves why - even though there was a 10K price asking - did Keith went to PM and was negotiating with the seller, offering 6 then 7 K and then after seeing he is losing, intentionally said he will pay the 10K then posted sold? Why negotiate if you actually understood the asking price as a BIN? If you can answer this question and still believe Keith is right here , well, I would say WOW.

 

[Samer]

Keiths PMs are irrelevant.

Every shrewd investor tries to negotiate.

he met “Asking $10k” in title, bs not honored.

 

[Samer]

They are not only allowing him get away...

But no rules are changed, which is BS.

You punished Keith for attempt negotiating

pms are irrelevant; Keith failed negotiating
bringing the price down to 6-7k, no one cares.

Keith met “Asking 10k” title. Honor forum rules

 

[Abdillahi Abdillahi]

Keiths PMs are irrelevant.

Every shrewd investor tries to negotiate.

he met “Asking $10k” in title, bs not honored.

Samer, stop being delusional please , sorry, I had to say use that word

Answer this "And to all others who are agreeing with Keith, while I respect your opinions, ask yourselves why - even though there was a 10K price asking - did Keith went to PM and was negotiating with the seller, offering 6 then 7 K and then after seeing he is losing, intentionally said he will pay the 10K then posted sold? Why negotiate if you actually understood the asking price as a BIN?"

 

[Abdillahi Abdillahi]

They are not only allowing him get away...

But no rules are changed, which is BS.

You punished Keith for attempt negotiating
ignoring end.. fact he met “Asking 10k”

There you go....attempting to negotiate? Why negotiate when you are claiming it is a 10K BIN and should be binding? Why negotiate? Come on,

 

[Samer]

Samer, stop being delusional please , sorry, I had to say use that word

Answer this "And to all others who are agreeing with Keith, while I respect your opinions, ask yourselves why - even though there was a 10K price asking - did Keith went to PM and was negotiating with the seller, offering 6 then 7 K and then after seeing he is losing, intentionally said he will pay the 10K then posted sold? Why negotiate if you actually understood the asking price as a BIN?"

How did Keith get 10k? He’s smart.

Smart people have 10k. Smart pple try save.

He TRIED, to lower it, haggling. didnt work.
So what did Keith do?Claim “ASKING PRICE”

 

[Samer]

There you go....attempting to negotiate? Why negotiate when you are claiming it is a 10K BIN and should be binding? Why negotiate? Come on,

This is more money than most can imagine.

Anyone would try lower it from 10k, if could.

People do it to BINs too!! Treat like “bin”

Guaranteed if 10k bin, keith would still attempt to negotiate same transcript wouldv been said
The pms are irrelevant... Everyone tries lower; moreso if it’s $10,000. I’d argue Keith wouldve did wrong if bought 10k without trying to lower

You need something more substantial.

“Asking $10k” supersedes attempt to haggle.
Keith did nothing wrong; you cant use his pms,
since ultimately, he met the “asking 10k” title.
What matters, is what happens at the end.

 

[Abdillahi Abdillahi]

How did Keith get 10k? He’s smart.

Most smart people have 10k imo.

He TRIED, to lower it, haggling. didnt work.
So what did Keith do?Claim “ASKING PRICE”

Thank you Samer, you actually answered how I wanted you to answer. You negotiate even though you claim there is a BIN and you know the domain can fetch more money then after the seller mentioned he found out he can get paid appraisal, and he might get more money, then to try to block the seller ,panicking and posting SOLD, when there is no agreement....does this make sense? Nope,

 

[Samer]

Thank you Samer, you actually answered how I wanted you to answer. You negotiate even though you claim there is a BIN and you know the domain can fetch more money then after the seller mentioned he found out he can get paid appraisal, and he might get more money, then to try to block the seller ,panicking and posting SOLD, when there is no agreement....does this make sense? Nope,

Regardless Any format.... if listed “10k”
Smart people will try to negotiate via “PM”
It’s a lot of money... Shouldnt change...
i think i see what you’re trying to say,
but smart people will try. No fail in trying...
unless you try use “negotiate” to disqualify legit
$10k claim on “asking 10k” title in “make offer”

wow..

 

[Abdillahi Abdillahi]

This is more money than most can imagine.

Anyone would try lower it from 10k, if could.

People do it to BINs too!! Treat like “bin”

Guaranteed if 10k bin, keith would still attempt to negotiate same transcript wouldv been said
The pms are irrelevant... Everyone tries lower; moreso if it’s $10,000. I’d argue Keith wouldve did wrong if bought 10k without trying to lower

You need something more substantial.

“Asking $10k” supersedes attempt to haggle.
Keith did nothing wrong; you cant use his pms,
since ultimately, he met the “asking 10k” title.
What matters, is what happens at the end.

Samer, you would be a terrible lawyer We can't use Keith's PMs while you guys feel the right you use something that is not a BIN as a BIN? Come on, I am sure you can think better. Take the emotions out of this and see how it is. If that was a BIN, the seller would need to agree it , specially, in this case, when you started attempting to negotiate and got all offers rejected, then know you found out the seller is pursuing paid appraisal, which means he will get better pricing and saying oh shit, let me post SOLD. The seller saw even before the appraisal, someone made a straight 11K offer.

 

[Ategy]

Agreed, what is worse, is this has no grounds at all. And to all others who are agreeing with Keith, while I respect your opinions, ask yourselves why - even though there was a 10K price asking - did Keith went to PM and was negotiating with the seller, offering 6 then 7 K and then after seeing he is losing, intentionally said he will pay the 10K then posted sold? Why negotiate if you actually understood the asking price as a BIN? If you can answer this question and still believe Keith is right here , well, I would say WOW.

It's pretty simple ... you walk into a store and see an item priced at $10. You ask if you can get a cheaper price .. the owner says no. The price tag is still $10 and the item can be purchased at $10. *IF* the seller had at that point taken down the $10 price tag then that would be different .. but the $10 price tag continued to be there for everyone and anyone .. INCLUDING the person who tried to haggle the price.

The fact @Keith tried to get a better price via private contact is 100% totally irrelevant here.

The *ONLY* thing in question is if the "asking $10k" price is binding in the "make offer" forum. As I mentioned above I think that's a stretch, but it has NOTHING to do with the fact Keith tried to haggle for a lower price.


Added: @Abdullah Abdullah .. waiting for your "WOW"!

 

[Abdillahi Abdillahi]

It's pretty simple ... you walk into a store and see an item priced at $10. You ask if you can get a cheaper price .. the owner says no. The price tag is still $10 and the item can be purchased at $10. *IF* the seller had at that point taken down the $10 price tag then that would be different .. but the $10 price tag continued to be there for everyone and anyone .. INCLUDING the person who tried to haggle the price.

The fact @Keith tried to get a better price via private contact is 100% totally irrelevant here.

The *ONLY* thing in question is if the "asking $10k" price is binding in the "make offer" forum. As I mentioned above I think that's a stretch, but it has NOTHING to do with the fact Keith tried to haggle for a lower price.

Ategy, it is different, your analogy is not the same here and cannot be applied. No store would change a price tag when you are there. It wont happen. Further more, there was no 10K BIN at all. Asking here is like that is the minimum I want but I am gauging for earning more. Keith is not someone who is new to buying and selling, he could see the opportunity and wanted to take advantage of it, however, he tried to belittle the asset, taking into consideration the seller's apparent lack of knowledge of the asset's real value.

 

[Abdillahi Abdillahi]

It's pretty simple ... you walk into a store and see an item priced at $10. You ask if you can get a cheaper price .. the owner says no. The price tag is still $10 and the item can be purchased at $10. *IF* the seller had at that point taken down the $10 price tag then that would be different .. but the $10 price tag continued to be there for everyone and anyone .. INCLUDING the person who tried to haggle the price.

The fact @Keith tried to get a better price via private contact is 100% totally irrelevant here.

The *ONLY* thing in question is if the "asking $10k" price is binding in the "make offer" forum. As I mentioned above I think that's a stretch, but it has NOTHING to do with the fact Keith tried to haggle for a lower price.


Added: @Abdullah Abdullah .. waiting for your "WOW"!

Add WaaaW too

 

[dirk]

The fact @Keith tried to get a better price via private contact is 100% totally irrelevant here.

The *ONLY* thing in question is if the "asking $10k" price is binding in the "make offer" forum. As I mentioned above I think that's a stretch, but it has NOTHING to do with the fact Keith tried to haggle for a lower price.

Agree 100%. I get what @Abdullah Abdullah is trying to say but I think just about any savvy buyer will try to negotiate down a BIN if there's opportunity to do so.

 

[Ategy]

Ategy, it is different, your analogy is not the same here and cannot be applied. No store would change a price tag when you are there. It wont happen. Further more, there was no 10K BIN at all. Asking here is like that is the minimum I want but I am gauging for earning more. Keith is not someone who is new to buying and selling, he could see the opportunity and wanted to take advantage of it, however, he tried to belittle the asset, taking into consideration the seller's apparent lack of knowledge of the asset's real value.

Are you honestly saying you've never gone into a store or market or anything of the such and asked for a better price than what's on the price tag? There are places in the world where not trying to ask for a better price is the default. I remember when I was a kid and visited Hong Kong .. the ONLY recommendation there is never pay what's on the price tag .. lol .. but you're always allowed to.

You are wrongly mixing two very different and VERY SEPARATE elements of this situation:

#1) @Keith negotiating for a lower price outside the context of the "Make Offer". (Seller refuses to go below the "asking price".

#2) @Keith agrees to CURRENT and EXISTING asking price open to all.


There is NOTHING in any way that relates #1 to #2. You might want to think there is because it seems like they go together because it's the same person. But the ultimate question is .. what if @Keith had tried to haggle for a lower price .. then someone else came in and said "sold" at $10k? THAT is the real question .. because if the answer is yes to "anybody but @Keith", then that is actually discrimination, and there are actually laws in many places against that.


So ultimately #1 has ZERO relevance here both legally and morally/ethically.

However .. as I mentioned .. both things are completely separate. That still leaves #2 .. where we need to assess if indeed "Asking $10" in the equivalent to a legally binding BIN? The answer to that specifically, is less clear. In fact, a few posts up I gave a pretty good reason why I don't think it is "technically" (however I would argue it might morally be, but that's not the ultimate question .. see my earlier posts for specifics).