status-resolved Is an asking price the same as Buy It Now?

[Keith]

Hi all,

Just what the title says. If someone says they’re asking $10 for a domain and you agree to pay $10, is it binding per NP rules?

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

Agree 100%. I get what @Abdullah Abdullah is trying to say but I think just about any savvy buyer will try to negotiate down a BIN if there's opportunity to do so.

Let me make it clear one thing, in case it is not clear, I am not saying anyone should not try to negotiate a BIN. What I am saying is there was no BIN and even with that , there was no Agreement. I never saw where asking is interpreted as a BIN in any sales process, even in real-estate.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

Are you honestly saying you've never gone into a store or market or anything of the such and asked for a better price than what's on the price tag? There are places in the world where not trying to ask for a better price is the default. I remember when I was a kid and visited Hong Kong .. the ONLY recommendation there is never pay what's on the price tag .. lol .. but you're always allowed to.

You are wrongly mixing two very different and VERY SEPARATE elements of this situation:

#1) @Keith negotiating for a lower price outside the context of the "Make Offer". (Seller refuses to go below the "asking price".

#2) @Keith agrees to CURRENT and EXISTING asking price open to all.


There is NOTHING in any way that relates #1 to #2. You might want to think there is because it seems like they go together because it's the same person. But the ultimate question is .. what if @Keith had tried to haggle for a lower price .. then someone else came in and said "sold" at $10k? THAT is the real question .. because if the answer is yes to "anybody but @Keith", then that is actually discrimination, and there are actually laws in many places against that.


So ultimately #1 has ZERO relevance here both legally and morally/ethically.

However .. as I mentioned .. both things are completely separate. That still leaves #2 .. where we need to assess if indeed "Asking $10" in the equivalent to a legally binding BIN? The answer to that specifically, is less clear. In fact, a few posts up I gave a pretty good reason why I don't think it is "technically" (however I would argue it might morally be, but that's not the ultimate question .. see my earlier posts for specifics).

Nope, I am not mixing, it is clear. There was no BIN. That is true. And if someone else posted sold, which of course did not happen, we would be in the same position. You did see in that thread another user offered 11K. Why didnt that user see it as BIN and just claim a BIN?

 

[Ategy]

Nope, I am not mixing, it is clear. There was no BIN. That is true. And if someone else posted sold, which of course did not happen, we would be in the same position. You did see in that thread another user offered 11K. Why didnt that user see it as BIN and just claim a BIN?

Again .. you don't understand what I'm saying because I actually specifically have not disagreed with anything in your last post.

What I was saying is that whether you think "Asking $10k" is a legal BIN or not .. should not in any way be related to whethre or not he tried asking for a lower price. Please go back up and re-read all my posts because you're clearly are not understanding the point I'm making as I NEVER said it SHOULD be a considered BIN.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

Again .. you don't understand what I'm saying because I actually specifically have not disagreed with anything in your last post.

What I was saying is that whether you think "Asking $10k" is a legal BIN or not .. should not in any way be related to whethre or not he tried asking for a lower price. Please go back up and re-read all my posts because you're clearly are not understanding the point I'm making as I NEVER said it SHOULD be a considered BIN.

No problem, that is what matters to me. As long as we agree on that there was no BIN then we are fine. The whole discussion is based on some here thinking that that asking price is actually a BIN and should have been honored when finally Keith accepted to pay it. Let me ask you a question, as domainers, we dont like when someone gives you low-ball offer right? Specially when we know that person is for example able to pay the price like a big company or even knows what the assets worths, etc, so do you think it is fair to take advantage of someone who - at it appears - initially did not know the actual or possible value of their asset? I believe what prompted the seller to get a proper appraisal is because he probably received offers through PM that were more than the 10K which Keith did not even offer until last minute and which the seller did not at any stage agreed to part with his asset for. Also, while the seller did seem to not understand a lot about the domains, he actually mentioned that he managed businesses and can actually see and note if someone is actually trying to get a deal by belittling his asset. I believe due to his business background, he specifically chose the make offer forum to see what prices he might receive and I am sure he received many offers than the only 11K offer which was posted in the thread.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

Asking price can be higher or lower or be the same depending on how the negotiations go in any business transaction provided there is full agreement between the involved parties.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

I don’t think there is a person here who isn’t aware this name is worth far more than 10K even among cheap domainers. Its a steal of a price. If the mods said this is not a binding agreement because of the forum and the wording I think everyone needs to accept that and move on.

And you aren’t going to get the name by bullying and causing a scene In the public square which you seem to like to do alot. Its clear from the pms you decided to post publicly the guy does not know its true worth and made an error. If someone started a big stink about a name I owned I would not sell it to them either. At least one person the 11K offer took the wording differently.

Well said. God bless you.

 

[Keith]

Of course you negotiate. Why would you not? At the end of the day though, I agreed to the sellers asking price in a public thread that they created. For the mods to not hold the seller to a binding agreement now is simply wrong.

 

[Keith]

Let’s read exactly what the mods said again via PM -

“Hello,

It appears that the asking/Buy Now price has been met by the buyer, which creates a binding agreement between the buyer and seller.”

They are saying that an asking price is in fact a buy it now. So, if I go to the thread and offer the asking price, which I did, that created a binding agreement!

 

[equity78]

No problem, that is what matters to me. As long as we agree on that there was no BIN then we are fine. The whole discussion is based on some here thinking that that asking price is actually a BIN and should have been honored when finally Keith accepted to pay it. Let me ask you a question, as domainers, we dont like when someone gives you low-ball offer right? Specially when we know that person is for example able to pay the price like a big company or even knows what the assets worths, etc, so do you think it is fair to take advantage of someone who - at it appears - initially did not know the actual or possible value of their asset? I believe what prompted the seller to get a proper appraisal is because he probably received offers through PM that were more than the 10K which Keith did not even offer until last minute and which the seller did not at any stage agreed to part with his asset for. Also, while the seller did seem to not understand a lot about the domains, he actually mentioned that he managed businesses and can actually see and note if someone is actually trying to get a deal by belittling his asset. I believe due to his business background, he specifically chose the make offer forum to see what prices he might receive and I am sure he received many offers than the only 11K offer which was posted in the thread.

Simply not true, on this forum when someone says I am asking $10,000 that is the price to get a deal done. There are people who reply to make offer or top domain threads and say, "Hey how much are you asking?" the person replies, $10,000. If that person who asked then says sold. That's a done deal.

So hopefully the mods @Mod Team Bravo @Mod Team Echo @Mod Team Alfa make clear going forward that you either set a buy it now or you say make offer, and you can add the minimum offer is $,$$$. That's all that would have been needed here.

And people negotiate everything here, I have had names priced at $3,000 and someone pm me I will give you $1,500.

I have had make an offer threads where I posted not to waste anyone's time, min offer is $1,000 and someone pm me $300.

All kinds of stuff goes on here and nothing disproves another potential transaction.

This to me is more about Namepros making clear that asking price is what you want, only Sedo allows this nonsense which frustrates many and has had some avoid them altogether because of that.

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

Hello,

A couple things should be clarified:

1. As moderators tasked with enforcing the rules of NamePros, our decisions on whether something is binding does not necessarily make it binding in a court of law. It does, however, make it binding in regards to your use of NamePros, and if we feel you have violated that binding agreement, then we may remove your access from NamePros. For us, we review all of the details involved and then make a decision, similar to how it might unfold in arbitration. Intent is important in our review.
   • Important: Regardless of what we think, if you and your lawyer think that the word "asking" is definitive enough to form a legal binding contract online, taking into consideration the negotiation that took place, then you are within your legal rights to pursue that in a court of law with the seller.
2. Within the marketplace, there is standard terminology used that may be unfamiliar to someone new. There are also sections for categorization.
   • "Buy-It-Now" and "BIN" are most commonly used to indicate an exact price for which a domain can be purchased immediately. There is also a section named "Fixed Price" for them, as well as a buy now thread prefix.
   • Negotiable prices are categorized under the "Make Offer" section and/or denoted by a make offer thread prefix.
   • "Asking" under the "Fixed Price" sections may have different implications than under the "Make Offer" sections. In either case, clarity should be sought since "BIN" is the standard terminology used to describe an immediate purchase price.

The listing in question, created by a new member who may be unfamiliar with the correct terminology to use and who may be unfamiliar with the implications associated with using "asking" in the thread, had both a make offer prefix and was categorized under the "Make Offer" section. Typically, if these types of listings also include a Buy-It-Now price, then they'll explicitly state "BIN" in the thread.

Using the English definition of "asking," it can quite easily be argued that asking is simply a request for offers of that amount and does not guarantee acceptance of those offers. Admittedly, the word "asking" often has an implication to sell in business negotiations, but that may not be known to a newcomer. As far as we're concerned, their intent is more important, especially since the English definition and business use of the term are in conflict with each other.

Here's a quote from another website that may be of interest to those reading this thread:

In order to have a valid and binding legal contract, three elements are required: an offer, acceptance of that offer and consideration. Usually, the earnest money deposit will satisfy the third requirement, but consideration can also be where the seller takes the property off the market in reliance on the contract.

Source.

 

[Keith]

Hello,

A couple things should be clarified:

1. As moderators tasked with enforcing the rules of NamePros, our decisions on whether something is binding does not necessarily make it binding in a court of law. It does, however, make it binding in regards to your use of NamePros, and if we feel you have violated that binding agreement, then we may remove your access from NamePros. For us, we review all of the details involved and then make a decision, similar to how it might unfold in arbitration. Intent is important in our review.
   • Important: Regardless of what we think, if you and your lawyer think that the word "asking" is definitive enough to form a binding contract online, taking into consideration all parts of the negotiation that unfolded afterward, then you are within your legal rights to pursue that in a court of law with the seller.
2. Within the marketplace, there is standard terminology used that may be unfamiliar to someone new. There are also categories.
   • "Buy-It-Now" and "BIN" are most commonly used to indicate an exact price for which a domain can be purchased immediately. There is also a section named "Fixed Price" for them, as well as a buy now thread prefix.
   • Negotiable prices are categorized under the "Make Offer" section and/or denoted by a make offer thread prefix.
   • "Asking" under the "Fixed Price" sections may have different implications than under the "Make Offer" sections. In either case, clarity should be sought since "BIN" is the standard terminology used to describe an immediate purchase price.

The listing in question, created by a new member who may be unfamiliar with the correct terminology to use and who may be unfamiliar with the implications associated with using "asking" in the thread, had both a make offer prefix and was categorized under the "Make Offer" section. Typically, if these types of listings also include a Buy-It-Now price, then they'll explicitly state "BIN" in the thread.

Using the English definition of "asking," it can quite easily be argued that asking is simply a request for offers of that amount and does not guarantee acceptance of those offers. Admittedly, the word "asking" often has an implication to sell in business negotiations, but that may not be known to a newcomer. As far as we're concerned, their intent is more important, especially since the English definition and business use of the term are in conflict with each other.

Here's a quote from another website that may be of interest to those reading this thread:

​

If you are now defining “asking” as not a buy it now price then why did you say this?

Let’s read exactly what the mods said again via PM -

“Hello,

It appears that the asking/Buy Now price has been met by the buyer, which creates a binding agreement between the buyer and seller.”

I was given the asking price via PM and negotiated. Negotiations do not void the asking price, which was agreed to, both via PM and publicly.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

Simply not true, on this forum when someone says I am asking $10,000 that is the price to get a deal done. There are people who reply to make offer or top domain threads and say, "Hey how much are you asking?" the person replies, $10,000. If that person who asked then says sold. That's a done deal.

So hopefully the mods @Mod Team Bravo @Mod Team Echo @Mod Team Alfa make clear going forward that you either set a buy it now or you say make offer, and you can add the minimum offer is $,$$$. That's all that would have been needed here.

And people negotiate everything here, I have had names priced at $3,000 and someone pm me I will give you $1,500.

I have had make an offer threads where I posted not to waste anyone's time, min offer is $1,000 and someone pm me $300.

All kinds of stuff goes on here and nothing disproves another potential transaction.

This to me is more about Namepros making clear that asking price is what you want, only Sedo allows this nonsense which frustrates many and has had some avoid them altogether because of that.

Rules can be changed and language used can be structured in a different way, that is all ok. But if I take your example for someone asking in the make offer what the person is willing to sell and once they are told then the person saying sold, it cannot be like these based on how the rules are here as well as the possibility for asking price/bin being different. Asking price can be higher or lower or be the same depending on how the negotiations go in any business transaction provided there is full agreement between the involved parties. The seller in your example would still to add the price a sentence like post sold to claim it at said price.

Also, refer to the mods latest explanation which falls into right what I have been saying all day in many posts

Hello,

A couple things should be clarified:

1. As moderators tasked with enforcing the rules of NamePros, our decisions on whether something is binding does not necessarily make it binding in a court of law. It does, however, make it binding in regards to your use of NamePros, and if we feel you have violated that binding agreement, then we may remove your access from NamePros. For us, we review all of the details involved and then make a decision, similar to how it might unfold in arbitration. Intent is important in our review.
   • Important: Regardless of what we think, if you and your lawyer think that the word "asking" is definitive enough to form a legal binding contract online, taking into consideration the negotiation that unfolded afterward, then you are within your legal rights to pursue that in a court of law with the seller.
2. Within the marketplace, there is standard terminology used that may be unfamiliar to someone new. There are also sections for categorization.
   • "Buy-It-Now" and "BIN" are most commonly used to indicate an exact price for which a domain can be purchased immediately. There is also a section named "Fixed Price" for them, as well as a buy now thread prefix.
   • Negotiable prices are categorized under the "Make Offer" section and/or denoted by a make offer thread prefix.
   • "Asking" under the "Fixed Price" sections may have different implications than under the "Make Offer" sections. In either case, clarity should be sought since "BIN" is the standard terminology used to describe an immediate purchase price.

The listing in question, created by a new member who may be unfamiliar with the correct terminology to use and who may be unfamiliar with the implications associated with using "asking" in the thread, had both a make offer prefix and was categorized under the "Make Offer" section. Typically, if these types of listings also include a Buy-It-Now price, then they'll explicitly state "BIN" in the thread.

Using the English definition of "asking," it can quite easily be argued that asking is simply a request for offers of that amount and does not guarantee acceptance of those offers. Admittedly, the word "asking" often has an implication to sell in business negotiations, but that may not be known to a newcomer. As far as we're concerned, their intent is more important, especially since the English definition and business use of the term are in conflict with each other.

Here's a quote from another website that may be of interest to those reading this thread:

​

Excellent explanation again.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

If you are now defining “asking” as not a buy it now price then why did you say this?




I was given the asking price via PM and negotiated. Negotiations do not void the asking price, which was agreed to, both via PM and publicly.

Keith , let me ask you this, did the seller agree with you that you guys have a deal with 10K and proceed to escrow? If you have a proof of this happening on PM, I think the mods will give an infraction to the user and he will not be able to sell here.Market Restriction I believe. If there is no such agreement, then, we all come back to the misunderstanding.

 

[johnn]

There is a Big difference between "misunderstanding" about the Terminologies and "beeing greedy to get more money for the sale".
It happened when someone post sold too quick to make the seller thinks that he made a mistake in pricing.
From the conversation between the seller and buyer. It shows that the buyer is greedy and not about him to misunderstand about the section or the terminology.
As a matter of fact I think his English is very good.

 

[Keith]

It should also be noted that the seller @Melatonin Purveyor updated the sales thread after giving me the price via PM. He went back to the thread and updated the title to add “asking $10,000”.

He was well aware of what he was doing. He set a buy it now price is what happened and now wants to back out of the deal.

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

If you are now defining “asking”

We are not defining it. The point was to convey that clarity should always be sought when "asking" is used because it is unclear, especially if it is used by someone unfamiliar with its standard use in business.

 

[Keith]

Keith , let me ask you this, did the seller agree with you that you guys have a deal with 10K and proceed to escrow? If you have a proof of this happening on PM, I think the mods will give an infraction to the user and he will not be able to sell here.Market Restriction I believe. If there is no such agreement, then, we all come back to the misunderstanding.

After I said let’s get it done at your $10k ask, he responded by saying he now realized there is an appraisal section and wanted appraisals.

 

[equity78]

We are not defining it. The point was to convey that clarity should always be sought when "asking" is used because it is unclear, especially if it is used by someone unfamiliar with its standard use in business.

You should be eliminating the use of "asking" fixed price or make an offer. That way you avoid ambiguity.

 

[Melatonin Purveyor]

I'm the seller. I never agreed to any of Keith's offers. Period.

 

[equity78]

I'm the seller. I never agreed to any of Keith's offers. Period.

You should not have said asking price PERIOD.

 

[Keith]

I'm the seller. I never agreed to any of Keith's offers. Period.

You said you wanted x amount and I agreed. You set the price, not me. And to go further, when I offered $6k you said no, I’d rather get the higher price, which was $10k.

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

After I said let’s get it done at your $10k ask, he responded by saying he now realized there is an appraisal section and wanted appraisals.

Thank you Keith, so from this I can understand that he never accepted your last offer which is the 10K after you initially offered 6 and 7 K respectively.

It should also be noted that the seller @Melatonin Purveyor updated the sales thread after giving me the price via PM. He went back to the thread and updated the title to add “asking $10,000”.

He was well aware of what he was doing. He set a buy it now price is what happened and now wants to back out of the deal.

This is interesting. So are you saying he had a BIN in the thread and you saw it but when you reached out to him through PM, he changed? Did the mods confirm this or did you keep screen shot or something? I believe this doesnt change much because unless you posted SOLD when you said there was a BIN and he changed to Asking the title.

There is a Big difference between "misunderstanding" about the Terminologies and "beeing greedy to get more money for the sale".
It happened when someone post sold too quick to make the seller thinks that he made a mistake in pricing.
From the conversation between the seller and buyer. It shows that the buyer is greedy and not about him to misunderstand about the section or the terminology.
As a matter of fact I think his English is very good.

Johnn, please, no one posted sold in the thread when there was an agreement. Keith now clearly mentioned here that when he said lets do at your 10K price, the seller responded with appraisal and such things, so no, the seller did not accept the last offer too.

 

[Keith]

Thank you Keith, so from this I can understand that he never accepted your last offer which is the 10K after you initially offered 6 and 7 K respectively.


This is interesting. So are you saying he had a BIN in the thread and you saw it but when you reached out to him through PM, he changed? Did the mods confirm this or did you keep screen shot or something? I believe this doesnt change much because unless you posted SOLD when you said there was a BIN and he changed to Asking the title.

Johnn, please, no one posted sold in the thread when there was an agreement. Keith now clearly mentioned here that when he said lets do at your 10K price, the seller responded with appraisal and such things, so no, the seller did not accept the last offer too.

No, I’m saying that the initial title of his sales thread did not give a price. After he told me $10k privately, he went back and edited the thread title to say “asking $10,000”.

He ultimately wanted $10k which is why he added that specific number to the thread title. If the true intent was to field offers, he wouldn’t have added the price.

 

[Bravo Mod Team]

You should not have said asking price

The seller did not write "asking price" in his thread or in the direct message.

Keith introduced the term "asking price" in the conversation, the seller responded with an amount, and 9 minutes later the seller wrote, "I'm brand new at this."

It's possible that the seller did not understand the implications of this term used by Keith.


Sources:
https://www.namepros.com/conversations/3097150/
https://www.namepros.com/threads/1186787/

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

The seller did not write "asking price" in his thread or in the direct message.

Keith introduced the term "asking price" in the conversation, the seller responded with an amount, and 9 minutes later the seller wrote, "I'm brand new at this."

It's possible that the seller did not understand the implications of this term used by Keith.

Well, God Bless you the mods. It is good to have you there to tell the rest of us what is true when two sides are giving different stories.