In 2014 over a 1000 new domain extensions will be available.

[buyresaledomains]

What does that do to this biz? Does it make the .com even that much better? Or obsolete? As of now extensions have no bearing on search results. But what happens when a domain is "kendras.daycare". Will it impact Serps then?

 

[Archangel]

Let me throw something else in here: It's not as simple as non-domainers seeing an extension--any extension--and wanting it. It has nothing to do with it. Users want to handle what they know, NOT what is in current vogue (trends die) or whatever's cheapest (why are $10/year .coms developed while $3 .info are merely collected by domainers?). What I said is the way it is, whether ppl or other so-called "experts" disagree: If no one knows it exists, it won't be developed. Period. As well, if ppl pay little to no attention to the extension, well, what factor leads them to register a .com over .whatever? It's been that way for Lord knows how long. A billion new extensions changing that? Again, that is where you have flawed logic. If ppl do not flock to the other vanity extensions and prefer .com still, do you SERIOUSLY think they'll gobble up the new ones simply because they have more variety in their choices? If so, explain what I mentioned above: that .com is still preferred over every piece of competition it receives. More variety won't change that, even if registrars want us to believe it. (Most info/biz/mobi etc. registrations are held by investors anyway, so the amount that they have registered means nothing. It's how many are DEVELOPED, not merely how many are registered)

this is what im talking about.

why are you talking about "easier to handle" ???? handle for who?

non-domainers dont want to handle anything. they see website addresses and thats it. they dont have an interest in handling them or remembering which ones exist. why is it so hard to understand that with thousands of .weird TLD's it eventually wont be as weird anymore.

thats what im talking about. breaking through the weirdness barrier.

today, everything besides .COM (and respective country code) is seen as "oh you couldnt get the .com"

so, occasionally i see a .biz or .info address - rarely but still i see them. hey i even seen a .mobi address the other month on pair of hair clippers i bought at target - admittedly its only like the 4th or 5th one ive seen in the real world.

so all im talking about here is the normalization of .weird TLD's and that wasnt gonna happen with a couple odd TLD's....

forget about the idea of people "remembering which ones exist"... because its about as irrelevant as remembering all area codes that exist.

---------- Post added at 04:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:39 PM ----------



you guys are the ones saying people notice specific extensions.

pointing out how .mobi .biz .name didnt catch on... its irrelevant.

the idea of a TLD catching on is history now. when you can separate words with a dot its not about that anymore.

yes 1,000 choices is better than 5.

 

[mjnels]

Let me throw something else in here: It's not as simple as non-domainers seeing an extension--any extension--and wanting it. It has nothing to do with it. Users want to handle what they know, NOT what is in current vogue (trends die) or whatever's cheapest (why are $10/year .coms developed while $3 .info are merely collected by domainers?). What I said is the way it is, whether ppl or other so-called "experts" disagree: If no one knows it exists, it won't be developed. Period. As well, if ppl pay little to no attention to the extension, well, what factor leads them to register a .com over .whatever? It's been that way for Lord knows how long. A billion new extensions changing that? Again, that is where you have flawed logic. If ppl do not flock to the other vanity extensions and prefer .com still, do you SERIOUSLY think they'll gobble up the new ones simply because they have more variety in their choices? If so, explain what I mentioned above: that .com is still preferred over every piece of competition it receives. More variety won't change that, even if registrars want us to believe it. (Most info/biz/mobi etc. registrations are held by investors anyway, so the amount that they have registered means nothing. It's how many are DEVELOPED, not merely how many are registered)

and again - i didnt say anything about end users seeing an extension and wanting it.

its really easy to understand what im saying but domainers have all these built in assumptions. stop! just read what im saying - not what you're assuming im trying to say.

 

[Archangel]

I'm a reasonable guy, and I'll give you the benefit of a doubt. You've said a lot of things that we are somehow misinterpreting. So I'll give you this: In no more than 5 sentences, try to summarize what you are saying. Apparently, your examples and fluff are obscuring the point you are trying to make. So, in 5 sentences, explain your thoughts for us, no fluff.

and again - i didnt say anything about end users seeing an extension and wanting it.

its really easy to understand what im saying but domainers have all these built in assumptions. stop! just read what im saying - not what you're assuming im trying to say.

 

[mjnels]

I'm a reasonable guy, and I'll give you the benefit of a doubt. You've said a lot of things that we are somehow misinterpreting. So I'll give you this: In no more than 5 sentences, try to summarize what you are saying. Apparently, your examples and fluff are obscuring the point you are trying to make. So, in 5 sentences, explain your thoughts for us, no fluff.

im talking about TLD's other than .com becoming "normal" to where they're not seen as second class. that has a higher probability of happening with 1,000 TLD's instead of 10.

but NOT any specific TLD. throw that idea out the window.

the idea of any specific alternate TLD "catching on" at this point is probably a pipedream.

 

[Archangel]

Okay, nice reply. Now, you see, this is the problem:

its really easy to understand what im saying but domainers have all these built in assumptions. stop! just read what im saying - not what you're assuming im trying to say.

Picking though your posts, you are telling us things--we are not assuming them--yet you think we are. A few of your pieces of wisdom:

the logic is, there are hundreds and hundreds and it will be harder to ignore.

that isnt the point..who cares about that nonsense. there is no TLD thats going to "catch on" but acting like 1,000+ new TLD's being released in the same year are going to be ignored is hilarious.

non-domainers dont want to handle anything. they see website addresses and thats it. they dont have an interest in handling them or remembering which ones exist. why is it so hard to understand that with thousands of .weird TLD's it eventually wont be as weird anymore.

so all im talking about here is the normalization of .weird TLD's and that wasnt gonna happen with a couple odd TLD's....

forget about the idea of people "remembering which ones exist"... because its about as irrelevant as remembering all area codes that exist.

There is no "assuming" here: you are arguing that with 1,000's of extensions, people won't be able to ignore them and thus, they'll become desirable. 1 new extension or 1,000--THAT is the irrelevant thing: No one but domainers will even pay attention to them. It was explained to you in perfect detail that .com has always been preferred, that every vanity extension in existence had more or less tanked, and that saturation is pretty much an iron-clad guarantee that the new extensions have 0% hope of ever becoming "normal" since they'd be merely "just other extensions." And yes, it's a proven fact that ppl DO look at and care what extension they use. So every argument you have about these new gTLDs ever becoming popular/developed/desirable/not totally trash/bad investments have no weight. You are arguing something that doesn't exist. It's hard to take you seriously.

The fact alone that you believe "there are hundreds and hundreds and it will be harder to ignore" is laughable at best. Is quantity now king?

im talking about TLD's other than .com becoming "normal" to where they're not seen as second class. that has a higher probability of happening with 1,000 TLD's instead of 10.

but NOT any specific TLD. throw that idea out the window.

the idea of any specific alternate TLD "catching on" at this point is probably a pipedream.

 

[mjnels]

yes quantity is king when breaking the pattern of .com and .weird

when there are 1,000 .weirds in even slight use - it becomes less weird.

when you can form sentences and phrases with words separated by a dot (i.e. real domain hacks) and domainers of 2013 pretend they wont get used, between private .brands and intuitive phrases - you're nuts.

 

[Archangel]

Entertain me: How would "less weird" equate to domains ppl will actually want? And how does "quantity is king" make ppl actually want to register a .crap? or .mule? or .crud? Seriously, you're making no sense whatsoever.

yes quantity is king when breaking the pattern of .com and .weird

when there are 1,000 .weirds in even slight use - it becomes less weird.

when you can form sentences and phrases with words separated by a dot (i.e. real domain hacks) and domainers of 2013 pretend they wont get used, between private .brands and intuitive phrases - you're nuts.

 

[replaced]

If you were to tell someone to go to name.pro, they wouldn't know what you're talking about. 99% of people have never heard of .info, .mobi, .this, .that.

How do you know if a TLD is worth anything at all? If the general public requires a www. before a website name because of the TLD, then the TLD currently has little value. End of story.

If you tell someone namepros.com, they'll know it's a website.

 

[4pm]

When one says 1000 weird TLDs are not going to change things any more than 10 did one should not forget about The law of the transformation of quantity into quality that has already worked countless times in every other imaginable area of social life, business and technology even during our lifetime.

The statement that something won't change ever because it has never changed in the past does not make much sense to me..

Argument that there's no need or demand is applied to every innovation since ancient greeks.. compare to "no need/demand for keyboardless tablets, smartphones, color displays etc"

Talking of numbers, if only say 1% of internet users are aware of and are accustomed to typing in some 10 existing gTLDs beyond com/net/org into their browser bars, with 1000 new you'll probably have to multiply that percent by 100..
That's 100% and it could eventually lead to a major shift in how people look at/use/remember/trust that strange useless right-to-the-dot thing - at some remote point shopping anywhere else (including .com) outside .shop/.store/.boutique/etc would become as weird as regging .pw to resell nowadays.

After all, there's "shop", "mart", "store", "cafe", "bar" is what you see in real life - which is a natural language opposed to "commercial" or "company" in this context.. and natural language won even in programming despite bigger code files and slower translation/compilation times



imho

*

 

[mjnels]

Entertain me: How would "less weird" equate to domains ppl will actually want? And how does "quantity is king" make ppl actually want to register a .crap? or .mule? or .crud? Seriously, you're making no sense whatsoever.

because its useful and they form phrases. they're real domain hacks..

shop.here
best.deals
etc.. lots of useful combinations of words.

when you're exposed to something over and over, it becomes less weird. the whole reason people use .com is because thats what everyone else is doing. people mimic others.

 

[Kate]

But domain hacks have never been popular, they are just not professional. Is that going to change because we are now having TLDs that are also generic keywords ? I don't think this is the major selling point.

 

[mjnels]

But domain hacks have never been popular, they are just not professional. Is that going to change because we are now having TLDs that are also generic keywords ? I don't think this is the major selling point.

most of the stuff people call "domain hacks" suck.

like del.icio.us - that was a dumb idea because it breaks up one word and isnt pronounceable.

to me, a useful domain hack is like: toy.store

whats not "professional" about that? clean, pronounceable.. looks very web 13.0

 

[JB Lions]

most of the stuff people call "domain hacks" suck.

like del.icio.us - that was a dumb idea because it breaks up one word and isnt pronounceable.

to me, a useful domain hack is like: toy.store

whats not "professional" about that? clean, pronounceable.. looks very web 13.0

You're leaving out the fact that it would be stupid since - http://toystore.com/

What you just posted already exists is some other extensions, but I couldn't tell you even 1 site with any of them because there wasn't enough quality development to even warrant 1 bookmark from me.

 

[Keith]

the idea of a TLD catching on is history now. when you can separate words with a dot its not about that anymore.

It has to be all about catching on. The cost to run an extension, which is exactly what these are, is astronomical. A few established hacks like motor.boat or what.gives won't be enough to keep the doors open. It will be impossible for more than a handful of these new extensions to have enough long term registrations to stay afloat.

This isn't a matter of just meshing a few words together and sticking a dot in between. Every .whatever is it's own business that cannot survive without lots of yearly registration fees which is not likely to happen :imho:

 

[Archangel]

I'm sorry to break hearts, but it's my job:

Verisign Study: 9 out of 10 Small Business Prefer A .Com Domain For Company Website

Of course, with 1k new extensions, that number will become 3 outta 10, since with the quantity and all, ppl will prefer other things, right?

Listen, there are illogical ppl out there. We can't talk sense into them all. Once they're on welfare and their wife leaves him because he blew all the family's money on something every logical person on earth knew to avoid, well, whose fault would it be? We tried to help the ignorant see things in the logical sense. They still wanna play with fire? Let them. But when they get burned, they'll earn nothing more than a laugh, a broken marriage, lost children from a custody battle, and a lesson learned. I'm smart, so I'm safe. Those who aren't smart will see the cliff--but only after their car goes over it.

 

[mjnels]

It has to be all about catching on. The cost to run an extension, which is exactly what these are, is astronomical. A few established hacks like motor.boat or what.gives won't be enough to keep the doors open. It will be impossible for more than a handful of these new extensions to have enough long term registrations to stay afloat.

This isn't a matter of just meshing a few words together and sticking a dot in between. Every .whatever is it's own business that cannot survive without lots of yearly registration fees which is not likely to happen :imho:

it costs a lot to apply for a TLD - but thats already a sunk cost. i'd imagine its not very costly for another registry to buy that entire TLD and add it to its inventory if they're already operating many other gTLD.

failures will probably happen, but people saying like 90% will "fail" is kinda silly.

I'm sorry to break hearts, but it's my job:

Verisign Study: 9 out of 10 Small Business Prefer A .Com Domain For Company Website

Of course, with 1k new extensions, that number will become 3 outta 10, since with the quantity and all, ppl will prefer other things, right?

Listen, there are illogical ppl out there. We can't talk sense into them all. Once they're on welfare and their wife leaves him because he blew all the family's money on something every logical person on earth knew to avoid, well, whose fault would it be? We tried to help the ignorant see things in the logical sense. They still wanna play with fire? Let them. But when they get burned, they'll earn nothing more than a laugh, a broken marriage, lost children from a custody battle, and a lesson learned. I'm smart, so I'm safe. Those who aren't smart will see the cliff--but only after their car goes over it.

...and you said i was talking fluff.

and so theres another survey posted before that one that goes the completely opposite direction..

http://www.thedomains.com/2013/09/3...would-consider-using-a-domain-other-than-com/

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------

You're leaving out the fact that it would be stupid since - http://toystore.com/

What you just posted already exists is some other extensions, but I couldn't tell you even 1 site with any of them because there wasn't enough quality development to even warrant 1 bookmark from me.

so is it stupid to build on a singular version of the .COM when someone is using the plural already?

you dont have any .anything bookmarks cause thousands arnt out roaming around yet.

 

[Archangel]

Yes, you are talking fluff. I'm actually pretty happy to know you understood something in this thread.

(What I posted is fact, no filler/fluff. So nothing is there to 'call out.' Sorry.)

...and you said i was talking fluff.

 

[JB Lions]

it costs a lot to apply for a TLD - but thats already a sunk cost. i'd imagine its not very costly for another registry to buy that entire TLD and add it to its inventory if they're already operating many other gTLD.

failures will probably happen, but people saying like 90% will "fail" is kinda silly.





...and you said i was talking fluff.

and so theres another survey posted before that one that goes the completely opposite direction..

http://www.thedomains.com/2013/09/3...would-consider-using-a-domain-other-than-com/

---------- Post added at 02:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:26 PM ----------



so is it stupid to build on a singular version of the .COM when someone is using the plural already?

you dont have any .anything bookmarks cause thousands arnt out roaming around yet.

The one article you just linked to used the word "campaign", different from some company's actually home site. Actually taking a look at the respondents, survey is bit of a joke.

"so is it stupid to build on a singular version of the .COM when someone is using the plural already?"

Depends on the situation.

"you dont have any .anything bookmarks cause thousands arnt out roaming around yet."

Some exist already, you would have figured just 1 would have been good enough to get a bookmark from me.

This is going to be geared to new businesses, since already existing businesses aren't going to be giving up their .com.

Don't see any benefit to a new business picking one of these over a .com. What are they?

 

[mjnels]

Yes, you are talking fluff. I'm actually pretty happy to know you understood something in this thread.

(What I posted is fact, no filler/fluff. So nothing is there to 'call out.' Sorry.)

i meant the thing about being on welfare and your wife leaving you.

T"so is it stupid to build on a singular version of the .COM when someone is using the plural already?"

Depends on the situation.

ok, explain a situation where losing traffic is acceptable to you.

 

[Kate]

failures will probably happen, but people saying like 90% will "fail" is kinda silly.

That depends on the definition of failure, but if you review the business plans of the newer extensions like .info .tel etc they all overestimated the numbers, vastly. In effect they all failed by their own expectations. And keep in mind, this is in conditions of limited competition.
.biz would not be where it is now, had .corp .inc .ltd been released at the same time, with no restrictions.
History has proven that registries have always been overoptimistic, and don't learn from the past. And many of the TLDs proposed today are so downright ridiculous, that it all looks like an April fools day joke. .hiv .xyz seriously ? And there are many like these. What are they thinking. People don't need shit, not now, not tomorrow.

 

[JB Lions]

"ok, explain a situation where losing traffic is acceptable to you."

It's not, but why is it acceptable to you? The businesses I know of that chose to use generics, I don't this is a big issue to them. Hotels.com owns Hotel.com. Shoes.com isn't work about shoe.com I don't think. etc.

Also, these businesses that would try for these new extensions, are pretty much going to be online only type of deals. If you're offline, you usually don't work off a generic. This is no store just called blinds or books out there.

Anybody who actually tries to build on toy.store, is going to be small time and probably fail on top of that. That's if they can even get it off the domainer's hands, who's probably charging too much to begin with, an amount they probably can get a decent .com.

I'm actually trying to imagine a successful business, building their brand out on toy.store. It's laughable.

Once you put it all together, play the scenarios out, it's just all kinds of failure coming.

Let me add on real quick, using toy.store example

These domains will probably fall in domainer's hands. Common complaint from people about domainers when asking for a .com, is they're asking too much.

This is suddenly going to change with these new extensions?

So domainer asks for x,xxx for toy.store

Hmm.

Pay that amount, for an off extension or do the ole

toy + keyword, country, city, fest, hut and pay reg fee for a .com

keyword + toys, jbltoys

or just make up a word.

All reg fee .com.

Toys - first coupple of pages
toysrus - toys + keyword
etoys - letter + toys
thinkgeek - 2 word combo
melissaanddoug - some girl and some dude
fatbraintoys - brandable keyword + toys
fao - fao schwartz
landofnod - brandable somebody made up

Explain to a business why toy.store would be better. Give me your best sales pitch.

 

[mjnels]

It's not, but why is it acceptable to you? The businesses I know of that chose to use generics, I don't this is a big issue to them. Hotels.com owns Hotel.com. Shoes.com isn't work about shoe.com I don't think. etc.

Also, these businesses that would try for these new extensions, are pretty much going to be online only type of deals. If you're offline, you usually don't work off a generic. This is no store just called blinds or books out there.

Anybody who actually tries to build on toy.store, is going to be small time and probably fail on top of that. That's if they can even get it off the domainer's hands, who's probably charging too much to begin with, an amount they probably can get a decent .com.

I'm actually trying to imagine a successful business, building their brand out on toy.store. It's laughable.

you're putting too much thought into my random example.

wasnt really trying to emphasize such a boring generic - toy.store was just an example of a pronounceable "domain hack." make it "Joes.Pizza" if you want

Let me add on real quick, using toy.store example

These domains will probably fall in domainer's hands. Common complaint from people about domainers when asking for a .com, is they're asking too much.

This is suddenly going to change with these new extensions?

So domainer asks for x,xxx for toy.store

Hmm.

Pay that amount, for an off extension or do the ole

toy + keyword, country, city, fest, hut and pay reg fee for a .com

keyword + toys, jbltoys

or just make up a word.

All reg fee .com.

Toys - first coupple of pages
toysrus - toys + keyword
etoys - letter + toys
thinkgeek - 2 word combo
melissaanddoug - some girl and some dude
fatbraintoys - brandable keyword + toys
fao - fao schwartz
landofnod - brandable somebody made up

Explain to a business why toy.store would be better. Give me your best sales pitch.

your point about them falling into the hands of domainers... oh well, if they arnt actually worth anything theyll drop after a few cycles.

do you have any idea what kind of good quality keywords are available in .travel right now? a ton of generics, a ton of descriptive stuff... entire cities with large populations.. so theyre sitting available and i dont think domainers will be able to sustain holding all the domains this time, with this many. somethings gotta give.. i think there will be plenty of useful relevant stuff sitting available for registration.

but if there isnt and domainers are making money from it - cool.

secondly, your point about "you can just register it in .com"... yes you can but its not as cleancut looking as toy.store

these.look like the way web.addresses should.have looked all along..

 

[JB Lions]

"do you have any idea what kind of good quality keywords are available in .travel right now? a ton of generics, a ton of descriptive stuff... entire cities with large populations.. "

Which goes to a previous point I made. There is no real market for these.

I would expect pretty much the same thing with these new ones. Domainers buy most of them up, park them, try to sell them. Let them drop when that doesn't happen.

"yes you can but its not as cleancut looking as toy.store"

So toyfest.com is not as cleancut looking as toy.store? toy.store looks like Amateur Hour, somebody who isn't serious about business.

 

[mjnels]

That depends on the definition of failure, but if you review the business plans of the newer extensions like .info .tel etc they all overestimated the numbers, vastly. In effect they all failed by their own expectations. And keep in mind, this is in conditions of limited competition.
.biz would not be where it is now, had .corp .inc .ltd been released at the same time, with no restrictions.
History has proven that registries have always been overoptimistic, and don't learn from the past. And many of the TLDs proposed today are so downright ridiculous, that it all looks like an April fools day joke. .hiv .xyz seriously ? And there are many like these. What are they thinking. People don't need shit, not now, not tomorrow.

how does the existence of crappy TLD's do any harm?

existence of crappy domains has always been a reality..

---------- Post added at 05:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 PM ----------

"do you have any idea what kind of good quality keywords are available in .travel right now? a ton of generics, a ton of descriptive stuff... entire cities with large populations.. "

Which goes to a previous point I made. There is no real market for these.

I would expect pretty much the same thing with these new ones. Domainers buy most of them up, park them, try to sell them. Let them drop when that doesn't happen.

yea but you dont know which point to stick to. when i say that, you say there is no demand.

when i say they are there for the consumers to register, you say oh well domainers will snatch them all up so that wont happen anyway.

---------- Post added at 05:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:17 PM ----------

So toyfest.com is not as cleancut looking as toy.store? toy.store looks like Amateur Hour, somebody who isn't serious about business.

its easier to read.

 

[JB Lions]

When I say demand, I'm talking about somebody that would want them to put up an actual site, start a business etc. Not domainers parking them. That demand I'm talking about is what brings value to an extension. 250,000+ regs of .pw, mostly from domainers, it's still a crap extension.