.mobi I Feel Cheated - Considering Legal Action Against SEDO

[DomainTalker]

I feel cheated...


At the designated auction close time for SEDO 3 auction, I was formally notified by Sedo, by email, that 2 auctions I was bidding on had CLOSED - and it said: 'You're the WINNING BIDDER', in each case.


I had won 2 excellent domains.


I double-checked....I visited the auction pages for each name (no evidence of tech difficulties). They each said: 'This auction is now closed', and that 'You (me) are the 'Winning bidder' - and showing my successful bid amount.


I treble-checked.....I visited the 'Transfers' page in my Sedo Account (no evidence of tech difficulties)....And, sure enough, both names were listed there - with the bid amount beside each name - and the notification of 'Transfer in Progress'...this page also serves as the invoice for each domain's payment.


I had bid - the auctions were now closed - I had written, formal, confirmation that the auctions were closed, and that I was the winner in each case - and I had confirmation on the auction pages, themselves - plus a Sedo entry into the 'Transfers' page in my account at SEDO that serves as the invoice for each sale, and noting they were 'Transfers in Progress'....


And, all these double & treble checks I did were done on the Sedo website AFTER I received the win-confirmation emails from Sedo - AND there was NO sign of any 'Tech problems', as I visited the auction pages in search of the confirmation, and visited Sedo's Transfers' page to also confirm the transaction...


There is no doubt....It was all agreed - Sedo and I had a deal.


At that moment, a binding contract was formed - between the parties (me & Sedo/mTLD).


Having confirmed I had won these 2 names, I immediately dropped out of bidding for the other names I was bidding for.....I was happy with what I'd won.


It was 4.15am in Sydney........I immediately exited SEDO, and went to bed.


It was only this morning - Sydney time - that I woke to find emails from Sedo saying I had been 'outbid' for my two names...!!...WTF....??!!


....Oh, and also an email saying the auction had been extended, timed at being sent to me 1hr 50mins AFTER the auctions had CLOSED - and after I had been confirmed the winner of the names - and had long since exited the auction...!!!!!


Now, ladies & gentlemen...


I don't know about you, but, this is unethical, unconscionable business practice, imo....Its sharp practice, its non-transparent, and, I believe, illegal auction practice.


Auction contracts are formed when a bid is made and it is accepted by the auctioneer....From that moment, there is a legal, binding contract between the parties.


If the auctioneer had technical problems that prevented bids at the last moment - then, they should NOT have formally accepted the current bid/offer...Once they DO accept the offer formally - it is a contract at that price...


Can you imagine Sedo's attitude to me, if, after I was confirmed as the winning bidder, I turned around and said: 'Um, sorry....my computer crashed, so I don't believe I have a contract with you to pay for the name I won....'....!!??....They'd laugh at me...And - quite rightly - remind me we had a BINDING CONTRACT...


Their formal acceptances also cost me the chance to bid further on those two domains (I was told the auction was closed)...I reasonably assumed it was all over, I'd won, and I left the arena, shut down my computer, exited Sedo altogether.

AND, their formal acceptances persuaded me to drop out of other auctions I was bidding on - thereby costing me a chance at those names...


And...to be informed 1hr 50 mins AFTER THEY HAD CLOSED THEM, that the auctions were on again.....is....simply...breathtaking....And, reeks of lack of integrity, in the name of greed...


These are valuable domains....with serious potential value..


I feel I have been cheated...

.

 

[snoop]

It is a real mess. I would have thought they should have just redone the entire auction. I kind of wonder if there was some kind of dos attack or the like by a bidder as the bidding real shouldn't be bringing servers down.

 

[Mobi Cheap]

Sorry to hear that DT, and understand how you feel.

Whilst Sedo may be legally entitled to do what they have done, IMHO they'll gain a lot of good will if they were simply to re-run contested auctions - with plenty of notice, and this time with staggered end times - at least several hours apart.
:imho:

 

[PVFARKAS]

we'll talk about more on pm if you'd like DT.

i have a lot of respect for you and would like to help you hash out what is and isn't binding legal contract in situations like this. i am going to reserve further comments to pm.

 

[mo_dork]

hi, i had the exact same experience. the auction extended email arrived after the auction had ended.

i even downloaded my invoice after i was informed that i was the winner.
the invoice states-

'According to your sales contract dated 12/05/2007 please make the following payment: .....'

the key word being 'contract'.

 

[binaryman]

DT I'd be fuming about this and would not let it lie there. Not sure what can be done and what I would do but this is just totally unacceptable. I'd start by writing them a letter about it first or maybe phone them directly about it.
Really a bad situation. The downloaded contract you have.. that is prove is it not.?.it should stand up in court if it came to that? You need some pro legal advice on this is my guess. Like PV offers above. PM him.

 

[Mobi Cheap]

You are not alone:

http://www.johndemayo.com/johndemayocom/2007/12/sedo-fumbles-mo.html

"....
5)At this point, I think I have won horoscopes.mobi (and who wouldn't after that chain of events). So I leave my home office and head out for a while.....
....
If they had to extend the auctions because of errors on their side, they really should have extended them for more then 1 hour past when they notified people of the extension."

 

[mo_dork]

this is ridiculous.
i have my invoice, i almost paid for it too.
i got 2 emails-

1. from [email protected]
'Congratulations on your purchase.'

2. then a second congratulations from- [email protected]
'Please log into your account to review the purchase and sales agreement and access your invoice.'

so i downloaded the invoice and went to lunch.
then no notification until after the extended auction was complete.

what are our rights here? i would be happy to bid again on another auction. i would have outbid the eventual highest bidder.

m

 

[Alan Glennon]

If I were Sedo, I would contact the two highest bidders (and include anyone that received winning notices) for any of the auctions with potential problems, and then manually negotiate the final selling price. It would be time consuming and ugly, but probably would go a long way toward their future marketplace credibility.

 

[Mobi Cheap]

...then no notification until after the extended auction was complete.

what are our rights here? i would be happy to bid again on another auction. i would have outbid the eventual highest bidder.

m

If the legal route is effectively closed but everyone affected agrees they would like the opportunity to re-bid, shouldn't we try as a community to convince Sedo this would be the right thing to do?

 

[DomainTalker]

Thanks, PVFARKAS....I'll PM you...


As for re-auctioning the disputed names - well, whilst that's one way to look at it, I see it differently.

Auctions, by definition, are 'What happens THEN'....The psychology of auctions brings into play many factors - including not knowing what other bidders will do - how far they'll go - other distractions at that moment - uncertainty of what a domain is worth...etc

All these things combine in the play of an auction...


The format allows maximum prices to be gained, if there are competitive, determined bidders, bidding at that moment...


But - crucially - auctions also allow for those factors to combine to sometimes allow someone to get something at a bargain price...Its the risk the seller takes, when setting a reserve price.


I was in exactly that situation with my two domains at this auction....I was sitting on two great names, at very cheap prices - and the auctioneers bid them down to me, at those prices...


If Sedo re-auctions them - then, with hindsight - and focused time - the prices might be much higher next time than they were bid down to me at during this auction (I'm certain of it)...


No....I took my chances along with everyone else - and they were knocked down to me at bargain prices - and confirmed by the auctioneer to me, at those prices......And the auctions closed at those prices.


I don't want a new auction....I don't want financial compensation - I want my 2 domains back - at the SAME prices I won them at, fairly and squarely...


_____________________________________________________________________________



This was a very high-profile auction.....They were Premium names....It was watched by people all over the globe - End-Users & Domainers, alike

....This was a showcase for .mobi, too....and the .mobi Brand...it was IMPORTANT that it go well - and that it be seen to be conducted absolutely above board.


And, make NO mistake....This was a test of the integrity and transparency with which SEDO conducts itself in its auctions, imo....


If their system crashed at a critical moment....well...that's unfortunate...but, its their responsibility, imo......The auctions they notified had closed, should have stayed closed......Any other auctions (which they had not notified winners) could continue later, of course.


I say again....If SEDO had NOT notified bidders that they had CLOSED the auction they were bidding on - and notified folks that people had WON those auctions - then they could argue the bids of the bidders had not been formally accepted by SEDO....and, they could continue the auctions later, if they wished.


But, the moment SEDO accepted a bid - and CLOSED the auction - and notified someone as the winner (ie accepted their high bid) - I say that auction is finished...and SEDO have NO RIGHT to REOPEN a CLOSED auction....!!


For me, that's the issue....I RELIED upon SEDO's WORD and REPUTATION that I was the winning bidder....and I exited the auction in that fair belief......And lost the domains, as a direct consequence.


So, for SEDO, this is an issue of INTEGRITY, imo....and SEDO Reputation


SEDO had a problem....They were so focused on maximising revenue, they overlooked the rights & wrongs of the situation - and, imo - are at risk of showing themselves to be engaged in sharp practice, at our expense...


The correct - and honourable - thing for SEDO to do, imo, is to accept they had a tech issue that caused some people to be sent 'Auction Closed' notices (and, in my case, even each of the relevant auction pages at SEDO, itself, declared the auction(s) CLOSED - and my bid the winning bid)....and, honour those people that acted in good faith, and award the domains to them...


Since SEDO re-opened the auctions, and allowed higher bids (when they should not have done, 'cos they had declared them closed), they have a moral responsibility to mTLD to pay them the full amount of what the highest (reopened) bids were....

The NEW high bidders, in these cases, will just have to be disappointed, imo....They just didn't get their bids in on time - and before SEDO closed the auction on those names, at the time stated.


If SEDO fails to honour their agreement with us - then, that says a LOT about the moral (and legal?) attitude of that outfit.


Like I said....I believe it would severely damage their reputation for fair dealing in front of the whole world - and call into question SEDO's integrity in the auction space...


WHY would they risk that....??...It takes years to build a reputation - WHY risk it over a few names at one auction.....??.....It'd cost them a lot more in the long run.

.

 

[dalem]

Hi I had the same thing happen as I was notified as the winning bidder for sportsbetting.mobi and freemusic.mobi. For a total of $2850. Now once they changed their mind and decided to open up the auction again I ended up only getting freemusic.mobi and sportsbetting went onto 41k. As a fairly new person to this industry I cannot believe how unprofessional this company Sedo is and I want to be compensated for this mess!

 

[DomainTalker]

This is a shambles...and, I maintain, Sedo have conducted an illegal act.


These domains are valuable - and irreplaceable....This is not just an 'unfortunate' incident.


I don't want a new auction - I want the names I won back - at the winning-bid prices Sedo confirmed to me.


I have written to SEDO - and not yet had a reply.


I think our position with Sedo should be quite simple:


We have a valid CONTRACT for these domains with Sedo - at the prices Sedo accepted. We don't want another auction....We want that agreement honoured.


Here is the relevant section of what I wrote to mTLD, on this subject:


"....I understand they (Sedo) appeared to have a problem in the closing stages of the auction. But, in this case, that is irrelevant.....The key point is: The moment Sedo confirmed in writing to me that they (as auctioneers) had accepted my bid as the winning bid - It was over...An offer and acceptance was in place - A Contract with me had formed....From that moment, their computer problems, in relation to the auctions for my 2 domains were irrelevant.


I maintain that, whilst SEDO's auction terms of business stipulate that they can extend auctions for various reasons - NOWHERE does it say that they can re-open an auction AFTER Sedo, itself (the auctioneer) has declared - in writing - the acceptance of a winning bid....And declared in writing that a specific auction is closed....And AFTER Sedo's own auction bid page for a specific auction has stated that 'The auction is closed...You are the winning bidder '...and AFTER they have confirmed in writing to the highest bidder that 'You're the winner of abcdef.mobi'.....and, further, AFTER placing an invoice for the agreed bid price in the winning bidder's Sedo Transfer Account....


On this basis - why not continue the auctions for ALL the domains today? And, again tomorrow? How would anyone ever know when they had actually WON an auction, if the auctioneer can close it, declare you a winner, and then reopen it again for bids - later....??

LATER....Huh...?!!?


It only has to be stated to see the absurdity of what has happened.


Indeed, Sedo's auction rules go to great lengths to specify that if you bid - and that bid is accepted (as my bids were) - then it is a CONTRACT.....Its either a Contract, or its not. I say these two were.


Its the ACCEPTANCE by the auctioneer (Sedo) - in writing - of the winning bid that defines the situation. In other circumstances, they can, indeed, extend an auction - but not after they have declared it closed.


This is important. Its not an 'unfortunate' incident. The confidence in the mobi Brand is on the line here. The integrity of the SEDO auction space as trustworthy is being judged here. Today, the whole domain world is roaring about this....And, be sure, that end-users are watching, too. We're trying to build confidence here - and the appearance of taking a .mobi domain away after the auction for it has closed - and then re-opening the auction possibly to gain a higher price - is NOT a good look. It looks bad - and it IS bad.


I know this is difficult, but the principle of fair play - and good business practice - here is very important. And, I was greatly disadvantaged when I lost these domains, as well....And, this mess is not good for .mobi, either.


I'm afraid, my bottom line here is that I want my 2 domains back - and, at the same prices as that of my accepted & confirmed winning bids...."

.

 

[akcampbell]

What an almighty cockup. Sedo should be held responsible legally for any losses suffered.
Sending out confirm emails to winners creates a legally binding contract in my view.

 

[Keith]

What an almighty cockup. Sedo should be held responsible legally for any losses suffered.
Sending out confirm emails to winners creates a legally binding contract in my view.

I am sure that those emails are automatically generated at the close of every auction. Sedo surely covered the legal side of things before re-starting the auction.

People should quit being so sore and get over it. The first go-around was not the proper way to end the auction and sedo did the right thing :imho:

 

[-REECE-]

The auctions should either have ended just as they did or be redone entirely (with at least 1 week's notice) imho.

Sedo tells us their contract is binding when we make a bid, but clearly it doesn't seem to work that way when it's inconvenient to them.

I can see the situation Sedo was in here... No doubt mtld would have had grounds for a lawsuit had they not restarted these auctions -- and rightly so! It is their fault afterall that the auctions crashed and really -- their fault that all the names were listed to end at the same time in the first place (I'm sure they could have advised mtld on the benefits of having staggered end times).

With the kind of money everyone knew this auction was going to bring in... You'd think reliable servers would be the last thing we'd have to worry about here.

For those looking into filing a lawsuit, I wish you all the best :tu: For those looking to get back the names they rightfully won, I wish you all the best as well. At the end of the day, it was everyone's choice to wait until the last minute to place a bid and I certainly don't think the winning bidder should be penalized for technical difficulties in the last few minutes (as per the above ebay example).

To see so many of these names apparently go to an absolute newb rather than to genuine endusers and domainers who'd take pride in developing these sites is both shameful and appalling.

 

[DomainTalker]

A deal's a deal, keithmt.....Or, you have chaos.


No...I won't 'get over it'.

.

 

[Keith]

The auctions should either have ended just as they did or be redone entirely (with at least 1 week's notice) imho.

Sedo tells us their contract is binding when we make a bid, but clearly it doesn't seem to work that way when it's inconvenient to them.

I can see the situation Sedo was in here... No doubt mtld would have had grounds for a lawsuit had they not restarted these auctions -- and rightly so! It is their fault afterall that the auctions crashed and really -- their fault that all the names were listed to end at the same time in the first place (I'm sure they could have advised mtld on the benefits of having staggered end times).

With the kind of money everyone knew this auction was going to bring in... You'd think reliable servers would be the last thing we'd have to worry about here.

For those looking into filing a lawsuit, I wish you all the best :tu: For those looking to get back the names they rightfully won, I wish you all the best as well. At the end of the day, it was everyone's choice to wait until the last minute to place a bid and I certainly don't think the winning bidder should be penalized for technical difficulties in the last few minutes (as per the above ebay example).

To see so many of these names apparently go to an absolute newb rather than to genuine endusers and domainers who'd take pride in developing these sites is both shameful and appalling.

This was not convenient for anyone, especially the people like myself who were locked out and could not bid. Where is the fairness in that? Names should'nt be awarded to the lucky few who happened to have access to the site.

As far as the newb comment goes...who's to say that they don't have a genuine interest in .mobi like the rest of us. Just because they were not in on the landrush does'nt mean they can't spot an oppurtunity and jump in.

A deal's a deal, keithmt.....Or, you have chaos.


No...I won't 'get over it'.

.

It was chaos for the people trying to access the site too. And completely unfair! Everyone ended up with a fair chance to re-bid on any names they wanted to.

 

[TheBaldOne]

This is not the only thread on this shambles by Sedo.

I think if i were one of the directors of Sedo at the moment I would not be looking for a Christmas bonus!

If they settle the sales as they should, i.e. the domains go to those that won the auction and not the false extended secondary auction, then ,Mobi can sue Sedo for the difference in prices between the two as it was 'apparently' Sedo's fault not all bids were recieved due to technical difficulties. If they do not settle as above and the domains go the so-called winners of the false extended auction then Sedo can, and by the looks of it will, be sued by those who won legitimately the first auction.

By the way TOS make not a drop of difference in law unless they are legal and fair to all parties involved (that is the law as I understand it in Germany, UK and the USA).

We will all watch with great interest Sedo try and squirm and wriggle its way out of this one.

 

[-REECE-]

All I can say is this...

If Sedo isn't prepared to uphold their half of the deal, what makes them think we are?

I wouldn't doubt that if a mobi auction #4 at Sedo should occur, we may very well see "retribution" bidding.