NameSilo

I bid $611,000 for music.mobi - Lawsuit Pending

Labeled as .mobi in gTLD Discussion started by musicdotmobi, Dec 6, 2007.

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  1. musicdotmobi

    musicdotmobi Established Member

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    Hello everyone,

    I have been a part of this SEDO .mobi auction auction and I am the one responsible for the bid $611,000 for music.mobi.

    However I stopped bidding at the point where I realised that the NEW auction was a scam because the two bidders that were bidding me up were NEW bidders who were not even involved in the initial auction.

    The initial auction closed with me winning the last bid at $66,000.

    I received an invoice and 2 emails regarding the winning bid.

    Let me ask everything this key question? If you are bidding on eBay and you have a 7 day auction and you take a chance and wait til the last second to bid what if your DSL line or connection or even your computer crashes? I think many of us had this experience in the past. I know I had this happen last week on eBay when my computer froze and in essence lost the bid. Did eBay care? NO! Does SEDO care if you WERE going to bid and failed to do so if your computer crashed or had a slow connection? NO! Well, wait a second in this case they do.

    They proclaimed me winner send me 2 emails, sent me an invoice. I considered the bid finished and was ready to go and play guitar and record this new song I was working on in the studio. By chance, I get an email by whom? BOTH the .mobi MTLD who started INVITING people via a bulk message hyping them up that the servers have crashed and that there is huge demand for the .mobi auction. Then Sedo followed. So 2 bulk messages sent to the world inviting them to attend a NEW auction. Not only that, they extended the auction to 2.5 hrs NOT 5 minutes.

    Anyhow, I seriously have been negotiating with .mobi since 2006 about music.mobi but they seem to want money and to rob everyone of money than have someone develop a super site like I am. So the whole RFP was bogus. I tried fir over a year and they just said "you will have to bid for it".

    So, I am really upset, they caused me to miss my jam session and on top of that they allowed NEW bidders to the new auction. I say I have NO PROBLEM with old bidders that were active in the original auction bidding their maximum. Even though I was invoiced $66,000 I emailed SEDO and MTLD letting them know that I would pay them $81,000 because bidder 9 (I was the last bidder 12 to bid for the name in the original auction) rebid his maximum at $80k.

    So there comes along NEW bidders 13 and 14 who did not even attend the initial, legal auction. They probably got the bulk email fro both SEDO and MTLD and invited themselves to the dance. HOW can an auction that has ended have NEW bidders? I have no problems bidding with the 12 bidders that have bid against me in the initial auction but NEW bidders who were enticed by HYPE emails? Have you ever heard of a closed auction then an hour later having a new bidder say I will outbid the winner even though i was not even in the auction? NO!

    Anyhow, the bid to $616,000 is illegal. I sent the MTLD and SEDO an email and let them know that they should retract all my bids ($611,000) that were automatically placed by SEDO as a result of NEW bidders who were not even active in the original auction. In the new auction, the only legal bidder was bidder 9 who was also in the original auction. The bidder bid for $80k and i outbid him.

    How can I be declared a winner then told that I am not the winner then they invite new bidders? Also how can they say that their terms of services states that they can redo the auction and there is no legal agreement? REALLY? I checked it and i saw no section that related to servers crashing and technology interruptions.Tough luck, you had 7 days to bid and you didnt. You cant be bidding after. You take a chance, then be brave enough to live by it and acknowledge that you had considerable time to bid. And the new bidders 13 and 14 and dont care who you are but you had no place bidding in an auction with the old active bidders.

    Sedo I have bought numerous domains for tens of thousands of dollars and I refuse to park them and make money off parking (Domain King you can do that and **** the internet up for all of us). I will NEVER do business again with thieves especially the MTLD. They are making bank and playing everyone.

    OK my story is not done yet. I stop bidding at $611k because in my mind I should not be bidding against NEW bidders (yes I did realise it at the end) who had no place in the auction since they did not attend the original one. So i stop and half an hour later I get a message from SEDO asking me if I was interested to buy mp3s.mobi for $500,000? So let me get this straight. because I bid up to $611,000 (yes I am retracting this bid and every other bid made against NEW, illegal bidders), does that mean you think I should buy another music domain? I told them I would not buy mp3s.mobi for $300 and basically told them that they will hear from my lawyers if this mess is not solved.

    I suggest a class lawsuit and I seriously will BOYCOTT both SEDO and MTLD. I loved SEDO and have been a client for years but this money hungry, sleazy, unethical tactics are unacceptable. For all of you complaining that you did not get a bid in the last 5 minutes tough luck, you had 7 days (considerable time that is). I took a chance and won. I would have bid higher but I am not going to fill SEDO and MTLD's pockets with my hard earned money because they screwed up royally.

    What can I say? I am ready to kick some serious butt here. And sue these guys for emotional distress. SEDO seriously, you lost one of your top clients and super domainers. Lost my respect and you have robbed me and others in all fairness. I seriously will NOT let this go. If justice is not served, I will sue, I will go to the press, I will tell my story, I will post all the emails I got, invoices and screenshots of my winning bid and I am sure it will reflect future SEDO=MOBI auctions. Did anyone say sex.mobi? Yes, the MTLD is greedy and so is SEDO. This is bad business. REALLY bad. Not sure I can trust them. i will not be surprised if Bidder 13 and 14 were internal just to bid up my proxy of $611,000.

    The world record is not real people. It would have been if other original bidders bid me up to $615k. The new bidders in my mind either are internal fake bidders or new, illegal bidders who came in after being sent bulk emails by both SEDO/MTLD full of hype.

    If they do not accept my winning auction and fair win versus the original bidders even in the new auction, then I WILL pursue this since I do have some spare change here now.

    Costa

    MusicMusic.com
    Music.us
    Music.pro
    Music.im
    Music.fm
    MP3.fm

    Blog: Entrepreneur.pro


    PS After 3 years of development, I will be launching the biggest music site in the beginning of 2008, so if anyone knows any bands who would be interested, let them know to sign up their email at music.us. So much for the .mobi implementation on my site.
     
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  2. GijsZePa

    GijsZePa Established Member

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    I can only wish you luck. I think you have a strong case because email is also legal...

    I also hope that somebody willing to develop the name wins it..I hate the fact that the current guy is already telling the world that he won't develop the name..

    Martin
     
  3. accent

    accent Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I do not know how to answer your post -- except to say that you seem, beyond your understandable anger, to be the type of owner that would be very good for Music.mobi.
     
  4. Steven

    Steven Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I also wish you luck. I think a name like that deserves to go to the serious developers like yourself.
     
  5. MadAboutDomains

    MadAboutDomains Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Why didn't you offer that $600,000 for music.net?
     
  6. connections

    connections Established Member

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    deffiantly a case under "Breach of contract".

    Yet have you looked over sedo's TOS they may have something in their that allows this kind of thing to happen.

    I too had to pay hundreds and hundreds more for domains I won then re won, such a joke by sedo.

    They can sell millions in domains, buy companies for millions of dollars yet they cant even run a decent server, *sigh*
     
  7. fixxation

    fixxation Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The fact is that if the servers DIDN'T crash in the first round, auctions would've been extended and the bidding still would've reached the bids that we're placed in the second round anyway- in fact they may have even gone higher as more of the interested bidders were monitoring their desired names.

    It's a complete mess on Sedo's behalf, but I do believe that if you were there in the second round, and were doing everything you could to secure the domain then- then fair is fair- you had a chance to secure the name. It probably would've been worse in the first round if the servers hadn't crashed...

    I really do feel sorry for people that weren't notified in time (everyone away from their PCs) and didn't even know about the re-opening of the auctions, now that is the worst part of this whole mess- as it wasn't fair for anyone that didn't even know they had to return a couple hours later. :td:
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2007
  8. GijsZePa

    GijsZePa Established Member

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    The main problem is that a lot of winners of domains in the 'first round' closed their laptop, took a nap or ate their lunch...

    When opened their laptop again they noticed that they lost their 'winning' bid...

    I honesty think those 'loosers' will stand a good chance in court..

    Martin
     
  9. gemulder

    gemulder Established Member

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    Maybe, but first read the small letters on
    Sedo...
     
  10. italiandragon

    italiandragon Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    There are 2 things I want to say:

    1) WOW

    2) How come such a great person with also a great pocket (sorry but money here matters too) join NamePros only now.....I mean, how come someone able to bid $611,000 for a .mobi name was not part of this community?


    Wish you the best of luck and I agree on the fact that if you received the e-mail of winning auction, then you won the auction, period.
     
  11. fixxation

    fixxation Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Sedo's T&C will be air-tight without a doubt, and they know that. I remember reading an email saying something about technical difficulties and that they were "cancelling bids and were allowed to do so according to their T&C". They definitely wouldn't have been so quick to re-start the auctions if they didn't have their bases covered IMHO....

    Worth a shot though, and good luck with it. I think that the bidders that "won" the first round and then didn't participate in the second round may have a chance at something here, or deserve something out of it... bidding in the second round shows that you were there for it, and that just gives Sedo more power to argue with you if you're trying to claim your winning bid amount from the first round.

    Said it before and I'll say it again, what a mess....!!
     
  12. musicdotmobi

    musicdotmobi Established Member

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    My problem is that I have invested 3 years in launching the new Music.us which was intended to have Music.mobi to display the artists mobile pages. I had a strategy and RFP but Caroline Greer from .mobi said they do not do side deals and I would have to bid for it. By the way I have been in contact with the MTLD for this domain since 2006. And then to hear some person will not develop it and wants sellers?

    Hey for the guy who said that bids would go higher in a second auction that is OBVIOUS buddy. You email the world and tell them that the servers crashed and that the demand was high then new bidders will think that there is huge demand and therefore bid. Simple economics.

    The auction CLOSED. Done. Delivered. You can not reopen it. The TOS do not mention anything about outages and servers crashing. I have taken screen shots and saved all the TOS and privacy statements.

    I will go forward with the lawsuit tomorrow if I dont hear back from SEDO for the sake of everyone and the .mobi. Imagine having music.mobi, games.mobi, movies.mobi, sports.mobi not being developed. Are you kidding me? Equal distribution? What a myth. By the way everyone, i do not own 1 single .mobi. My only interest has always been music.mobi because i would have developed it like no other.

    I am saddened and i hope this is rectified because I am the rightful owner. Everyone who missed the first legal auction that is not my fault. You had 7 days to bid. If an auction closes it closes. No excuse. And if it does open what business do NEW bidders have that did not submit bids in the original auction? Seems that they were bandwagoners who read all the hype that MTLD and SEDO sent them in their bulk emails.

    Class lawsuit anyone? I am sure there will be one. I lost all my respect for the MTLD and SEDO. Their credibility is questioned now if they say binding agreements and invoices are invalid. That will boost your confidence next time you bid wont it?

    Costa

    P.S Out of stress and utter emotional discontent I managed to break one of my guitar strings following the second bogus auction due to aggressive guitar playing. I had to take my aggression somewhere people. Maybe I should have played the drums instead. Anyways, for all you musicians out there who i promised to get the mobile domain for your sites, you can take it up with SEDO and the MTLD.

    I am off to bed. Oh wait. Is there a 3rd auction? I better not sleep just in case SEDO and MTLD send me another bulk email saying they extended the auction. I better go check my email. You never know with those people now :)
     
  13. fixxation

    fixxation Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I said the bids would've been higher in the FIRST auction, not the second... more people would've been partcipating in the first round as that's when it should've started and finished and everyone knew about it. Numbers would've been less in the second "surprise" auction...!
     
  14. musicdotmobi

    musicdotmobi Established Member

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    Hey buddy,

    I am only interested in developing music.mobi

    My strategy:

    http://artistname.music.us (main artist page)
    http://artistname.music.mobi (artist mobile page)

    I havent joined before because I do not own any .mobi domains and my only interest since 2006 was music.mobi because of my strategy to develop it.

    I think .mobi is a great extension but I only see it being successful in applications revolving music, videos, radio, cinema, games, maps and other stuff one would do on their mobile device. Not so sure it will pick up for other "non mobile" words / names. Just my opinion.
     
  15. italiandragon

    italiandragon Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    By the way, just before take legal auction, since it seems you are in a hurry to do so, did you try to speak with Mr Schumacher (SEDO CEO) ?
     
  16. GijsZePa

    GijsZePa Established Member

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    Well...i heard he wasn't at his office. Driving some rounds at Maranello...

    Martin
     
  17. italiandragon

    italiandragon Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    lol :) , I meant the other Schumy :)
     
  18. musicdotmobi

    musicdotmobi Established Member

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    I have just received an email from Caroline Greer from .mobi. I will share my response with everyone:

    You claim that you are disappointed about my situation but then Sedo extends the auction by three hours in accordance with its supposed auction terms and conditions. You even say in your email that every effort was made to contact bidders in the auction and additional outreach efforts were made via blogs, web site posts etc.

    So where does it say something about crashing servers and delays? I was proclaimed the winner and an invoice was sent with your name (PDF file).

    So I accepted the TOS and agreed, won the auction and recieved 2 emails that I have won and how to pay. That to me constitutes agreement and is binding. The TOS clearly say that "document is not yet legally binding, as no agreement has been reached between the buyer and seller. Once an agreement has been reached this document will become binding " It seems that an agreement was made because I was invoiced and sent 2 emails stating I won plus was given a page on the site saying that I am the declared winner.

    I do not need any clarity on the TOS Caroline from Kate Donaghue. I think we all know what is at stake here and that you guys messed up but it was not in your best interest to make up for it. I accepted the Terms and COnditions when I made a bid then was proclaimed the winner. Until that point there was no agreement until I was emailed with intention on your part to say that a legal binding agreement has been made and that I won and here are the options to pay. I also received an invoice with your name and SEDO's wire transfer details. That sounds like an agreement to me. What is an invoice? I think an invoice always follows a binding agreement right? Please tell me if I am wrong on that.

    Also answer me this: How can new bidders be allowed in the second auction that were not present in the first? What, they decide to show up after 7 days of auctioning? Try doing that on eBay or pulling the "server" excuse. If my DSL was down in the last 2 minutes of the auction would you allow me to bid for the domain after it closes? I doubt. Would Sedo? I doubt. Quite self serving for both Sedo and MTLD the sole beneficiaries of the monies. Great business strategy to auction but unethical and illegal business practices to hold a second auction after proclaiming winners and invoicing them.

    I am amused by your "we tried to blog, send emails and post" to alert the old winners that they are no longer winners and to bid again. So if I won, closed my laptop, went to sleep and woke up the next day seeing that I really havent won, where is the fairness in that?

    Sorry means nothing to me right now. Throwing the Terms of Service and Conditions as an excuse is unacceptable and self serving, especially if the TOS was in essence followed by me and the actions by SEDO and you in my invoice indicate acceptance and a binding agreement (again this is FOLLOWING the acceptance of the TOS). You could have chosen to cancel my bids and not proclaim me winner. But you did. I was sent 2 emails AND an invoice. I am sure all of SEDO is feeling credible right now and the MTLD is looking very equitable and working in the best interests of the extension. So much for my RFP right?

    I had faith and expectations from both the MTLD and especially SEDO since I have been a huge client of theirs over the years.

    I am afraid I will see you in court, perhaps the National Arbitration FOrum and perhaps I will drop by Marina Del Rey to have a speak with ICAAN about how the MTLD is distributing domains in an equitable manner with "creative" auction processes.

    Sincerely,

    Costa
     
  19. italiandragon

    italiandragon Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You know what my left ear is suggesting to my brain right now:

    is it possible that this "event" occurred "under pressure" of MTLD because they were "not happy" of the (1th) selling price?

    I mean....one thing is $66,000 , another one is $616,000...

    I always think bad.... :alien:
     
  20. Alex

    Alex Member VIP

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    Sorry for coming in the .mobi area where I usually do not post, but this thread makes me clear something.

    1. mtld sucks. This guy tried to get music.mobi through the RFP process, and mtld better sent the domain to the auction, while I think he had a strong development plan for music.mobi. Shame on you mtld.

    2. Contact John Beryhill with your case. I think you need to read carefully the SEDO TOS, and find there something. Otherwise unfortunately you accepted it, and I think they have a strong TOS for these cases. While I perfectly understand your situation, and I agree with you perfectly, lawsuits take into consideration only the papers (the TOS).

    I wish you best luck for your development plans, you certainly are a great domainer who both understands the value of good domains, and does not just park them.


    I second Lorenzo here. mtld and sedo work closer, and I am sure sedo knew the maximum bid of each bidder.

    I smell something bad here.

    Especially with TWO very motivated bidders.

    And one more idea. Those two VERY motivated bidders, who they are? Music.mobi is a very good domain, but I can see only end users paying that much for a domain. And when do end users bid? Wait or the last minute of the auction? No .... they throw in their maximum bid well before the end of the auction.

    And I annot see 2 last minute domainers bidding a domain up to mid $xxx.xxx . And I acknowledge the value of music.mobi, but I just can't see two very deep pocketed domainers bidding it up without head.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2007
  21. TravelBusiness

    TravelBusiness Established Member

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    I hope true Justice will win! I wish "Musicdotmobi" good luck!
     
  22. hey.co.uk

    hey.co.uk Established Member

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    I think that is the key to this - for long term mobi success, which is better? Big cash sales to domainers or lower 'sales' to someone with a valid plan.

    It is worrying to see which path the registry went down and perhaps shows where their priorities lie.
     
  23. TheBaldOne

    TheBaldOne Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi Musicdotmobi, and welcome to NP.

    The first thing that has to be cleared up is Sedo's TOS (Terms of Service).

    1). Under which section of Sedo TOS are they claiming that:
    a) They can extend an auction;
    b) They can nullify a previously winning bid;
    c) That they can allow in new bidders to an extended auction;
    d) They can extend an auction without giving 'all' original bidders due time to be aware of the extended auction (2, 2 1/2, or even 3 hours is ludicrous).

    2). Under which Nations laws were the auctions held (this is very important and your lawyers will rip through both Sedo and Mobi here).

    3). The TOS have to be legal. Any company can have TOS saying whatever they like, that does not mean to say they are lawful, indeed look at the history of litigation against companies and you will find the subject littered with cases where a companies first defence was along the lines 'It's in our TOS' or 'It's in the contract'. Courts throughout the world have for a long time now dismissed such arguments as scrutiny of such TOS and contracts have been found to be in unlawfully in favour of the company and not balanced.

    4). It is a general rule internationally (including Germany, UK, and the US) that in an auction when the hammer falls the auction is finished and the buyer has entered into a legally binding contract to purchase the goods at the final closing price. Conversely the seller is legally bound to sell the goods at the final closing price to that bidder. This auction obviously closed, the hammer fell, and the goods, in this case a domain name, was sold. You are the highest bidder and .mobi registry are the seller, you have both entered into a legally binding agreement (whether the law that applies is German, English, or American).

    5). You should also note that Sedo has offices in the US and therefore you can sue them there. (I note from your profile you say you reside in the US at least part of the time.) That would almost certainly result in higher damages being awarded but also a legal system that is far more in tune than some others for 'fair play'.

    These are just some points that come to mind immediately, and please note none of the above is 'legal advice', just a laymans understanding of the law and areas you may wish to discus with your legal representatives.

    In the meantime I think you will realise, from this and the majority of posts above, we really do wish you all success in this matter. Sedo in the eyes of many have simply shot themselves in the foot again.
     
  24. webecri

    webecri Established Member

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    Good luck to you, you deserve better!
     
  25. Alex

    Alex Member VIP

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