.mobi I Feel Cheated - Considering Legal Action Against SEDO

[DomainTalker]

I feel cheated...


At the designated auction close time for SEDO 3 auction, I was formally notified by Sedo, by email, that 2 auctions I was bidding on had CLOSED - and it said: 'You're the WINNING BIDDER', in each case.


I had won 2 excellent domains.


I double-checked....I visited the auction pages for each name (no evidence of tech difficulties). They each said: 'This auction is now closed', and that 'You (me) are the 'Winning bidder' - and showing my successful bid amount.


I treble-checked.....I visited the 'Transfers' page in my Sedo Account (no evidence of tech difficulties)....And, sure enough, both names were listed there - with the bid amount beside each name - and the notification of 'Transfer in Progress'...this page also serves as the invoice for each domain's payment.


I had bid - the auctions were now closed - I had written, formal, confirmation that the auctions were closed, and that I was the winner in each case - and I had confirmation on the auction pages, themselves - plus a Sedo entry into the 'Transfers' page in my account at SEDO that serves as the invoice for each sale, and noting they were 'Transfers in Progress'....


And, all these double & treble checks I did were done on the Sedo website AFTER I received the win-confirmation emails from Sedo - AND there was NO sign of any 'Tech problems', as I visited the auction pages in search of the confirmation, and visited Sedo's Transfers' page to also confirm the transaction...


There is no doubt....It was all agreed - Sedo and I had a deal.


At that moment, a binding contract was formed - between the parties (me & Sedo/mTLD).


Having confirmed I had won these 2 names, I immediately dropped out of bidding for the other names I was bidding for.....I was happy with what I'd won.


It was 4.15am in Sydney........I immediately exited SEDO, and went to bed.


It was only this morning - Sydney time - that I woke to find emails from Sedo saying I had been 'outbid' for my two names...!!...WTF....??!!


....Oh, and also an email saying the auction had been extended, timed at being sent to me 1hr 50mins AFTER the auctions had CLOSED - and after I had been confirmed the winner of the names - and had long since exited the auction...!!!!!


Now, ladies & gentlemen...


I don't know about you, but, this is unethical, unconscionable business practice, imo....Its sharp practice, its non-transparent, and, I believe, illegal auction practice.


Auction contracts are formed when a bid is made and it is accepted by the auctioneer....From that moment, there is a legal, binding contract between the parties.


If the auctioneer had technical problems that prevented bids at the last moment - then, they should NOT have formally accepted the current bid/offer...Once they DO accept the offer formally - it is a contract at that price...


Can you imagine Sedo's attitude to me, if, after I was confirmed as the winning bidder, I turned around and said: 'Um, sorry....my computer crashed, so I don't believe I have a contract with you to pay for the name I won....'....!!??....They'd laugh at me...And - quite rightly - remind me we had a BINDING CONTRACT...


Their formal acceptances also cost me the chance to bid further on those two domains (I was told the auction was closed)...I reasonably assumed it was all over, I'd won, and I left the arena, shut down my computer, exited Sedo altogether.

AND, their formal acceptances persuaded me to drop out of other auctions I was bidding on - thereby costing me a chance at those names...


And...to be informed 1hr 50 mins AFTER THEY HAD CLOSED THEM, that the auctions were on again.....is....simply...breathtaking....And, reeks of lack of integrity, in the name of greed...


These are valuable domains....with serious potential value..


I feel I have been cheated...

.

 

[GijsZePa]

It was chaos for the people trying to access the site too. And completely unfair! Everyone ended up with a fair chance to re-bid on any names they wanted to.

I normally agree with you Keith, but you are wrong about this..

People who thougth they won were lunching, sleeping or climbing the mount everest...

They could end the auction a week from now after trying to track the initial winners, but not within an hour after the crash. Some people didn't even know there were problems..

Martin

 

[creature]

deleted.........double post.

 

[-REECE-]

If Sedo functioned perfectly fine for you up and until the end -- and it showed you as having the highest bid and you received the winning bid email...

I really do feel sorry for the folks this happened to.. My computer often disconnects/behaves poorly on it's own. I didn't think there was anything wrong with the auction until I headed to Namepros. I could just have easily thought it was a technical glitch with my computer. And had I not visited Namepros, yet visited my email and received an email saying I won, what incentive would I have to revisit Sedo?

Wow.. I really don't think Sedo can avoid a lawsuit on this one...

I normally agree with you Keith, but you are wrong about this..

People who thougth they won were lunching, sleeping or climbing the mount everest...

They could end the auction a week from now after trying to track the initial bidders, but not within an hour after the crash. Some people didn't even know there were problems..

Martin

 

[TheBaldOne]

GijsZePa, well pointed out. The so-called auction (the re-launched auction) would be laughed out of any court as not fair.

This could be absolutely massive in its consequences, at stake is the future of Sedo and the .mobi registry. It will only take one claiment not to allow themselves to be bought off and this could, potentially, see the demise of Sedo. Now there is a thought.

 

[dotstate.com]

Hi all,

Same thing here aswell i feel let down by sedo,I received the email saying (you are the winner of - - - -.mobi my winning bid was $5655 and i was the winner fair and square i even got the email from my transfer agent saying (Congratulations on your purchase)as i was logged in my sedo account all that closing time i went to pay for my invoice through paypal and open paypal account there and then.Funny enough i didn't notice or felt that their server went down.)

As far as i was concern the auction was closed and finalised,but then i received the server down email and telling me the auction will be back on again for another twenty minutes only but i was on for another 1 hour and 30 minutes?

Finally my domain went for $15600 and my final bid was $15100 i gave up because i was tired and fedup with the whole thing as i should have been on for another 20 minutes not 1 hour and 30 minutes.

Very dissapointed with the way it was handled.

For a minute i had my dream premium domain name with me then it was taken away

Thanks for listening

DS

 

[DomainTalker]

The cheapest solution for Sedo - and the one that would bring back most of the lost goodwill - imo, is:


(i) Honour the Contract with the original confirmed auction winners - and award them the domains.

(ii) Pay .mobi the difference in price (if any) between the bid the original winners were accepted at, and the final price after the false 'extended' auction.


Sadly, the 'new' winners would miss out on the domains - but, I say, they never should have had them, in the first place (or, if they were the successful bidder in both the original, and the 'extended' auction, then they should only pay what they were originally accepted for).


This would be expensive for Sedo....but, if they lost a law suit in the US - either by mTLD - or, a class action from us that lost out.....Well....it could truly hurt them.


I absolutely do NOT want a brand new auction on these domains - ie a re-auction....I want what has already been agreed.


Sort this out quickly, Sedo...!!

.

 

[creature]

Hi all,

Same thing here aswell i feel let down by sedo,I received the email saying (you are the winner of - - - -.mobi my winning bid was $5655 and i was the winner fair and square i even got the email from my transfer agent saying (Congratulations on your purchase)as i was logged in my sedo account all that closing time i went to pay for my invoice through paypal and open paypal account there and then.Funny enough i didn't notice or felt that their server went down.)

As far as i was concern the auction was closed and finalised,but then i received the server down email and telling me the auction will be back on again for another twenty minutes only but i was on for another 1 hour and 30 minutes?

Finally my domain went for $15600 and my final bid was $15100 i gave up because i was tired and fedup with the whole thing as i should have been on for another 20 minutes not 1 hour and 30 minutes.

Very dissapointed with the way it was handled.

For a minute i had my dream premium domain name with me then it was taken away

Thanks for listening

DS

Sorry you didn't get your name. However I feel more sorry for the first round of winning bidders who were unaware of the second round auction. Sedo really should have first verified that the initial winners were aware of the technical error before the re-start. It's impossible to guarantee against technical errors, so I think that it was correct to re-start the auction but I agree with Reece that 1 weeks notice should have been given.

 

[DomainTalker]

Sorry you didn't get your name. However I feel more sorry for the first round of winning bidders who were unaware of the second round auction

Yes....I'm sure I'm wasn't alone in exiting the auction, & Sedo, once we had confirmation of a successful bid.

I went to bed at about 4.30am (AEST), long before any notice arrived that something was to change.... And, others got on with their lives, too, I guess...As you would....The deal was done....No need to stay...


This is a disgrace....and, Sedo should know that many won't let it go...

.

 

[dotstate.com]

The cheapest solution for Sedo - and the one that would bring back most of the lost goodwill - imo, is:


(i) Honour the Contract with the original confirmed auction winners - and award them the domains.

(ii) Pay .mobi the difference in price (if any) between the bid the original winners were accepted at, and the final price after the false 'extended' auction.


Sadly, the 'new' winners would miss out on the domains - but, I say, they never should have had them, in the first place (or, if they were the successful bidder in both the original, and the 'extended' auction, then they should only pay what they were originally accepted for).


This would be expensive for Sedo....but, if they lost a law suit in the US - either by mTLD - or, a class action from us that lost out.....Well....it could truly hurt them.


I absolutely do NOT want a brand new auction on these domains - ie a re-auction....I want what has already been agreed.


Sort this out quickly, Sedo...!!

.

I totally agree with what you have said,I think they should award the winning bidders their domains with the price it was agreed and we received the winning auction emails.

I think that would be fair to us all as we all do things in a good faith and now its sedos turn to show us their good faith.

As i was logged in all that time in my sedo account waiting for someone to bid on the name i was bidding on until the auction was closed,i was glued to my chair all that time and didn't move at all until i had received the winning auction email and email from my transfer consultant regardless that it was automated email ,Automated email i think will only be sent once the auction is closed not when their server was crashed as claimed by them.

So sedo please let us have the winning auction domain as per your email.

It shouldn't be all about making more money out of those mobis ,I was surprise to see the second half auction rush only god knows where all those new buyers came from certainly they weren't there in first part of auction ,
specially on my domain name as there was no bids for a long time when they reopen the auction again then this new mean buyer came and the domain value shot up to five figure sum ?Even then i was willing to go on bidding then i thought about it and said to my self leave it because each time the aution was getting extended and the price was keep going up and up and then when i quit bidding on it.I wish good luck to new buyer whoever it may be!

But i feel let down the new owner should have been me full stop i would have gone all the way to get the domain in a first round but in second round i'm sure you all can guess my feeling.

Thank you

DS

 

[DomainTalker]

I'm sorry for that, dotstate....it must have felt bad...

Although I didn't see it, I've heard that the 'extended' auctions were surging a lot....and some have said that new bidders were allowed in, that hadn't been bidding prior to the tech probs....

It all smells to me....Its just not right...

.

 

[dotstate.com]

I'm sorry for that, dotstate....it must have felt bad...

Although I didn't see it, I've heard that the 'extended' auctions were surging a lot....and some have said that new bidders were allowed in, that hadn't been bidding prior to the tech probs....

It all smells to me....Its just not right...

.

Yes its true in second half this new bidder (10) came in from god knows where and started bidding like mad and took the auction into five figure sum?

So this is when i decided to quit the auction in a last few minutes of closing of second half and let it pass but in a first part of the real auction i was willing to go all the way to secure this domain name.

I really had plans to develope this domain name and would have brought a good website to the mobile community.

Well never mind its gone.Let that be a lesson to me and everyone and hope fully we might learn something from all this

DS

 

[NewWorldArk]

This is certainly a very unfortunate situation for all the parties involved.

I would've at least made sure to have contacted all the bidders (by phone) before continuing with the extension of the auction.

The Server problem I wouldn't necessarily place the blame on SEDO.

Making sure all the previous bidders were contacted before initializing the 30 min. extension process....now that's something else.

Either way it is unfortunate.

 

[mulligan]

If those of you who believe you won these domains in a fair and legal manner want to pursue this then you might want do some of the following.

I suggest that those of you who feel wronged form yourselves into a group and coordinate with each other.

As Sedo operate out of Massachusetts and are governed by Massachusetts law then you can try the following:

Contact the Attorney General's (Martha Coakley) office for Massachusetts.

Attorney General's Consumer Hotline to find out who has oversight over the business that Sedo run, to file a complaint and other information regarding what they can do for you --> (617) 727-8400

Submit a complaint by email:
http://www.mass.gov/Cago/docs/Consumer/consumercomplaintform.pdf

If you believe you are the victim of fraud report it to the Middlesex Sheriff's Office
http://www.middlesexsheriff.org/

Taking action on your own:

The Massachusetts Consumer Protection Act

Massachusetts, like many other states, has a statute that specifically enables the Attorney General and consumers to take legal action against unfair or deceptive conduct in the marketplace. The statute, Massachusetts General Law Chapter 93A, is referred to as the Consumer Protection Act. The law provides for actions by the Attorney General or by individuals.

The Attorney General can investigate and take action against businesses that engage in unfair or deceptive conduct, and prosecute a consumer protection case in the public interest. Because the Attorney General does not have the resources to prosecute every consumer protection violation, the law also provides for private lawsuits.
The Demand Letter

In order to bring any Chapter 93A action, however, a consumer must begin by sending the business a Chapter 93A "demand letter," to which the business has 30 days to respond. This demand letter is not required if a consumer is making a counterclaim in a lawsuit filed by the business against the consumer, or if the business does not maintain a place of business or keep assets in Massachusetts.

The purpose of the demand letter is threefold. First, it puts a business on notice of a consumer's claim, and provides information about the nature of the claim. Second, it may encourage the business to negotiate, to settle the matter without the necessity of going to court. Finally, it acts as a control on the amount of money damages that the consumer may ultimately recover if the claim is proven in court.

The demand letter must:

* Be sent at least 30 days prior to the filing of any court action. It is a good idea to send two copies of the letter to the party you are claiming against, one by certified or registered mail, so that you have a record it was sent, and one by regular mail, in case the business refuses the certified or registered mail. Remember to keep a copy of the letter you send, and keep the receipts and forms you get from the post office if you send the letter by certified or registered mail. These will be helpful if you do need to file in court.
* Identify the claimant (you). You can do this by including your full name and residential address on the letter.
* Reasonably describe the unfair or deceptive act or practice at issue. You can do this by providing a brief factual account of what happened, including dates upon which events occurred. You may, but need not, refer to particular laws you believe were violated when describing the unfair or deceptive acts or practices.
* Identify the injury suffered. You can do this by describing the money or property lost as a result of the unfair act. You will want to find out what it will cost to remedy the unfair or deceptive act or practice, too, to help the court determine your actual damages.

You may wish to download a sample demand letter to guide you in preparing your own.

Sample Demand Letter #1
http://www.mass.gov/Cago/docs/Consumer/conprotlaw.pdf

Sample Demand Letter #2
http://www.mass.gov/Cago/docs/Consumer/conprotlaw.rtf

Contact the Massachusetts State Governor (Deval Patrick)
http://mass.gov/?pageID=gov3utilities&sid=Agov3&U=Agov3_contact_us

File a complaint with the BBB (Better Business Bureau)
http://consumeraction.gov/bbb.shtml

Consumer protection for those outside the US:
http://www.econsumer.gov/english/contentfiles/country_about-contact.html

File a complaint with econsumer
http://www.econsumer.gov/english/

File a complaint with the branch of the FTC ( Federal Trade Commission) that deals with Online Service, Auctions, Websites, E-commerce
https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01

File a complaint with IC3 (The Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C).)
http://www.ic3.gov/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

If they don't want to answer your emails or deal with you then maybe they will deal with someone else acting on your behalf.

I have used these and various other methods to seek redress when I have been unfairly treated in the past or just flat out been ripped off (I'm not American and live on the other side of the world so you don't have to be either)

Good luck

Disclaimer. I am not a lawyer, have no legal background and don't claim that any of these methods will work, regardless of my own success in the past against large companies.

 

[domain_trader]

The word from Sedo at the time:

"We are aware the there are some problems with the .MOBI Auction at this time. Due the down time we were not able to extend the auction before the set closing time. Some bidders may have received emails saying that they have won the auction, however because the system was down the highest bid at the time the system failed are not binding according to our terms and conditions. The auction will be up and running very shortly and will be extended by until 3:30pm EST to ensure all interested parties can place their bids. While this is unfortunate, the good news is that the problems are due to the large number of last minute bidders! This is the first time an auction has brought down our servers due to such a large amount of activity.

Be assured that if there is any additional down time again, it will again be extended to ensure all bidders can place their desired bids. Please check the auction details page to ensure that your bid was accepted. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused."

I'd be interested to know what "terms and conditions" they are referring to? Does someone have a copy of the relevant section?

 

[TheBaldOne]

What a complete load of rubbish, I think they are trying to throw paperwork out now to try and cover up the manure!

Let's have a quick glance at this and just see if there are any holes?

"We are aware the there are some problems with the .MOBI Auction at this time. (What time is this exactly?) Due the down time we were not able to extend the auction before the set closing time. (If no more bids were being recieved then you would not extend the auction anyway, so this is a complete and utterly useless statement.) Some bidders may have received emails saying that they have won the auction, (Some bidders did get the referred to emails because Sedo sent them when the auction closed!) however because the system was down (Question, if the system is down how can it communicate that the auction is finished and thus send out emails to the winning bidders?) the highest bid at the time the system failed (what failure, bids had been recorded and were placed and were accepted) are not binding according to our terms and conditions. (What 'terms and conditions'? Further more before someone tries to quickly write some terms and conditions may I ask were these sent to everyone prior to the start of the auction?) The auction will be up and running very shortly (When? Within the hour? The day? The week?) and will be extended by until 3:30pm EST (on what date?) to ensure all interested parties can place their bids. (Oh so you telephoned, emailed, personally visited, sent recorded letters to all those that had been bidding up until the time you say the system failed? Further more you assertained that each and every one of the bidders up till this point was available for bidding and was aware of the so-called extension of this sham auction?) While this is unfortunate, (For Sedo, it is going to cost them $millions) the good news is that the problems (suddenly a single problem, i.e. selective system failure, has become multiple problems?) are due to the large number of last minute bidders! (I suggest Sedo immediately makes a record of all these last minute bidders, the attorneys for the plaintiffs are going to go through them with a fine toothed comb! How many does this 'large number of last minute bidders consist of? 1,000, 10,000, how many is needed to bring about this selective system failure? Also of course all these last minute bidders put in bids that are recorded of course?) This is the first time an auction has brought down our servers due to such a large amount of activity. (Not quite true actually Sedo, you used the same excuse at least twice to me when you first set up the auction format and a couple of auctions I was involved in went pear shaped. At least here tell the truth please.)

Be assured that if there is any additional down time again, it will again be extended to ensure all bidders can place their desired bids. Please check the auction details page to ensure that your bid was accepted. We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused."

The black print is just a few quick little observations and comments.

 

[Keith]

I normally agree with you Keith, but you are wrong about this..

People who thougth they won were lunching, sleeping or climbing the mount everest...

They could end the auction a week from now after trying to track the initial winners, but not within an hour after the crash. Some people didn't even know there were problems..

Martin

Yep, I see your point.

Perhaps sedo should have haulted the bidding and announced a new restart and end time. Truely an unfortunate situation for everyone involved.

 

[mo_dork]

Has anyone read the terms and conditions yet. Can anyone bring some legal knowledge to bear on this?
and lets hope the terms are not being revised and uploaded as we speak?

This could sink Sedo. I believe they will need to honor the invoices that were initially sent out. Sedo make a point of saying that their contracts are binding when you put in your bids, surely then, so is the contract/purchase agreement that we were sent.

There are circumstances for which Sedo may wish to extend an auction if there is some kind of issue, power outage at sedo offices etc, but not restart a closed auction after announcing the winner, because bids show up late, or don't show up at all. When the sedo server went down, (if that is what happened) the bids could not get through, so the bids were not logged. i wonder then if legally speaking there is any proof that bids were made?

This whole situation is troubling even without the invoices that were sent and the announcements that were made. This is not only an issue for us bidders and dotMobi, but also for ICAAN. Mobi domains are supposed to be assigned in a free and fair manner as set forth by ICAAN. Dotmobi was granted a license to issue these domains as it was deemed that it is in the interests of the general public to do so, not just because it financially benefits dotMobi or Sedo. However these domains were not sold in a fair and free manner, but were handed to a group of people who happened to have certain privileged information, after the domains had already been sold to other people. I am not sure that money should be the issue here, this is about freedom and fairness. Some domains went up in value substantially in the second round of bidding, the domain that i won only went up a little though, as i guess the new bidder didnt have much competition after the primary bidder was excluded.

So i think we should be looking to ICAAN for clarification on this. they may say the previous auction is void, or that anyone who has a valid invoice is the rightful owner. i doubt if they would say anything that would benefit sedo and not the general public. ICAAN should be impartial to $ amounts, just that the process is transparent. which it was not after the winners were announced.

i think the moral of the story should be- if you want to make sure you win an auction you get your bid in early or at least leave enough time to avoid mishaps. If you aim to sneak a bid in at the last minute, its a risky game.

what's the next step?

 

[dag]

This whole situation is troubling even without the invoices that were sent and the announcements that were made. This is not only an issue for us bidders and dotMobi, but also for ICAAN. Mobi domains are supposed to be assigned in a free and fair manner as set forth by ICAAN. Dotmobi was granted a license to issue these domains as it was deemed that it is in the interests of the general public to do so, not just because it financially benefits dotMobi or Sedo. However these domains were not sold in a fair and free manner, but were handed to a group of people who happened to have certain privileged information, after the domains had already been sold to other people. I am not sure that money should be the issue here, this is about freedom and fairness. Some domains went up in value substantially in the second round of bidding, the domain that i won only went up a little though, as i guess the new bidder didnt have much competition after the primary bidder was excluded.

This whole thing sure is bringing out the grandstanding in people...

This is about "freedom"? Really, now, this is getting pretty silly.

No one was "excluded" from the later bidding. Unfortunately, some of the bidders who thought they'd won earlier were not aware of it due to leaving their computers for a few hours after the crash, but no one had inside information about the restart of the auctions that they wouldn't have had if they'd been at their computers in that time. Which isn't to say it's their fault at all for not being there (some had gone to sleep, for example), but no one was truly excluded from the resumption of the auctions.

I'm not trying to make apologies for Sedo -- I think they really messed up and should have waited at least 24 hours before resuming the auctions, but the longer we continue to get carried away with all this, the longer it'll be before the dust settles and things can get sorted out in something more resembling a rational way.

 

[mo_dork]

i don't mean freedon as in george bush type freedom, i meant like i said 'free and fair'.

we were excluded from the second auction. i was informed there would be a second auction by sedo, after that auction had infact finished. i am not in the habit of just hanging around at sedo.com just in case. i am not in the habit of receiving invoices and legal documents that are then withdrawn. i take it at face value. i got the invoice, was told i had won. so went off to attend to other business.

if i had happened to go to sedo and see that the auction had restarted i would have been confused and would probably have emailed sedo to find out what the deal was, as no notification was sent.

we need to let ICAAN sort this out.

is this issue getting any attention outside of this thread?

 

[tophatter]

Yep, I see your point.

Perhaps sedo should have haulted the bidding and announced a new restart and end time. Truely an unfortunate situation for everyone involved.

I definatley Agree with you on the announcing of a new start & end time.
Not to repeat the obvious but many folks did close their laptops or shut down their desktops and went on their merry way.
Sedo took the time out to give ample notice of this auction and they should have started it up again in a day or so after giving all the time needed to discover that the auction site crashed.... :imho: