Hyphen?

[ckj11]

I have found domain that consists of 2 saleable words but they are split with a hyphen.
It is a .com domain, will the hyphen devalue the domain alot???

 

[877PAGE101]

In English speaking regions Google is primary traffic source since they control 70% or so of SE traffic.

So unless you still think 'type in' traffic gets volume, what other traffic is there for English speaking people?

If you think banners or links work, okay, where does that site get its traffic from?

Google is the source for most traffic today, I hate it, but it's true.

Sure you can play with SM to some degree, but SM is more hype than substance, a business today is either relevant on Google or they're irrelevant in their industry. That means lots of money in PPC and lots of money in major SEO work and for local companies I advise against buying local SEO services and we provide them.

Local search traffic is so small that once you really know the numbers as I do for many markets and many industries you undertand that local companies only need to focuse on one thing, are the the 1st or 2nd ad on a smart phone on Google, if not, they are irrelevant in their market for what they do on Google.

Now a local company does well to put no more than 25% of their annual budget into adwords, the rest is better spent on dominating local media, local TV stations and major radio and outdoors ads.

Here's an example, lawyers, a minor market may have 5,000 to 10,000 licensed lawyers and they line up to buy adwords.

Yet for most legal terms you have minor search traffic in their market for what they do.

So if a legal term gets 100 real searches on Google a day that may be a lot locally. Now look at the page, 10 ads, 10 maps and 10 organic, 30 spots divided between 100 users that day?

You can be the top ad with high CTR of 4% to 6% and with killer content on a squeeze page than gets 25% to 75% response ratios and you still get almost no new leads.

Local businesses can normally not afford local media, so now you have all the local companies that are nothing in their market trying to blast Google with ppc and seo and the more they spend the less they see in ROI.

Google is the most over-hyped company in the world, once local companies wake up and realize these clicks are not worth 25 to 150 bucks in some cases, then the big Google paid per click scam for local companies is over.

Google delivers huge traffic in national and global serps, but it makes most of it's money conning local companies with BS like adsense partners.

Everyday I deal with local companies that come to me often as referrals.

First thing I say is did you do adwords, they all say yeah they got the coupon and joined. I then say go to your account, you think google has 1000's of people looking in this market for what you do right?

They point to the screen and say yeah look at all the impressions.

I then point to the fine print and say see 95% is PARTNERS that means not google.

You have untargeted traffic from local papers and whoever, garbage traffic that gets no CTR and bad conversion rations.

As soon as we say GOOGLE SEARCH ONLY you have 50 or 150 real daily users looking for what you do and not 1500.

They say wow so Googe lied to me. I say it's the GOOGLE CON and partners is a joke for local companies.

 

[wot]

For my sins,only one!

Hyp-hen.com

 

[enlytend]

For PPC QS scores they are great and get an owner reduced PPC fees.

Only assuming they drive up CTR, and you can do that just as easily with good copy and a clever display URL The URL itself won't magically give you a high quality score. If hyphenated, we're probably talking about a longer domain, which takes away from the # of characters you have left to provide relevancy for a variety of keywords.

Search-wise, correlation of multiple hyphen domains to reduced rankings was observed following the EMD update. Multiple hyphens may be a negative quality indicator in search.

So if a legal term gets 100 real searches on Google a day that may be a lot locally. Now look at the page, 10 ads, 10 maps and 10 organic, 30 spots divided between 100 users that day?

Actually, it's 1-3 in the local pack now, previously 1-7. Haven't seen a 10-pack in years.

 

[877PAGE101]

I manage mega millions in PPC yearly budgets

An EMD is the #1 way to pop CTR, overall traffic for Google is so saturated with bots that a 4% to 6% CTR is almost unheard of, and the only way you do that today 95% of the time is with an EMD with or without hyphen.

It's pure optical science, the human eye is attracted to BOLD things

KEYWORD yada (Header)
KEYWORD yada (Body of ad)
KEYWORD .tld

The fact you can have 3 BOLD hits by using EMD's is why EMD's pop CTR higher than what YOU THINK works.

When you manage mega millions in PPC budgets and get 10QS scores and have 4 to 6% CTR and 50% response ratios, I might consider your OPINION.

Until then I'll just say what I know is truth based on my experience that makes me one of the top SEM gurus in the world.

EMD's pop CTR more than any clever little ad ditty can.

FACTS are FACTS

The next factor is being #1 on the rotation, and GOOGLE FAVORS EMD's over all domains for PPC just like THEY USED to favor them in organic.

EMD"s not developed properly today can hurt SEO but an EMD is the fast tract to a 10QS and the #1 spot in a PPC rotation and yeah, I make a fortune doing it.

 

[enlytend]

Sorry, I only manage thousands, but they're those real business clients you are talking about. Of course bolding attracts people. Yes, the domain gives you another bold - but so does a keyword after the domain in the display URL. URL only buys you one keyword (or 2 or 3 for the hyphenated domains you're talking about.)

Not that hard to get 10's for brand or tight niche terms.

 

[877PAGE101]

I should sell you my local search leads

I got a canned pitched for them my reps use

We recommend you use local tv, radio and print as well as outdoors before you waste time and money on local search for Google

The only thing that matters in local search is if you are the #1 spot on a smart phone, that's it.

You get that with an EMD

You have a local client on some BS url yadayadayada.com/keyword

You can't even see it on a smartphone

What % of search traffic is smart phone in USA now most terms are over 70% now.

Now I don't care who you are or what your client is, IF I enter a market I guarantee you I'm the #1 ad on that smart phone.

It's done with EMD's.

PERIOD

You can be a mod and jump and down all day about you do local search for a living

Great, congrats, if we are ever in a market with clients going for #1 spot you lose, since you don't understand yet how EMD's competely control how Google shuffles the rotation.

Yeah sure 10QS's are easy.

HAHA

Other than me, I've never met anyone that can get 10's easily.

It's done with an EMD

No EMD you are not getting 10's

It's not local search anymore, it's LOCAL SEM/PPC

SEO is irrelevant on a local level and if you don't have an EMD for your industry you will not control the #1 PPC ad on a smart phone that long

Next thing you'll be saying how CTR is 25% for you too

haha

JK

But for anyone that actually does SEM work to not comprehend the power of EMD's well that shows how little they really know about SEM

EMD and PPC go together just like EMD and SEO did years ago

Putting a keyword on a bs url in the file or directory name does not pop QS nor does it get a bold listing on a smart phone

Good LUCK

 

[enlytend]

I should sell you my local search leads

Thanks, don't need them.

Other than me, I've never met anyone that can get 10's easily.

I could very easily make all kinds of claims with nothing to back them up. Pics or it never happened.

SEO is irrelevant on a local level and if you don't have an EMD for your industry you will not control the #1 PPC ad on a smart phone that long

Nonsense

 

[877PAGE101]

Nonsense?

Business 101 today

You need to own your brandname .com

You need to own your industrykeyword(s) .com

You spend millions if not billions building a brand, every major brand today has competition in their industry

You control PPC costs and domination by owning your industry keyword(s)

Like I said, as soon as I enter any market in the USA buying ppc for a client on my industry keyword where I give them their city as geo.myasset.com or myasset.com/geo

I OWN the #1 Spot

PERIOD

So think what you want, the only nonsense I see is you claiming to be a local search expert

The fact you don't think EMD's dominate PPC today shows you have no SEM skills

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the only nonsense in this thread is your statement my FACTS are nonsense.

 

[enlytend]

I make no claims to be an expert, its just what I do for a living. It would appear that my experience is very different from yours.

Bringing this thread back on topic, hyphens DO devalue a domain, from a domain sales standpoint. Have you had success with selling hyphenated domains, and in what price range? I assume you are selling most of your domains in conjunction with a PPC management contract - have you sold any without?

 

[ckj11]

Whats emd

 

[ckj11]

Doh
got it

 

[877PAGE101]

I rarely own a hyphen, but the couple I do are usually .com's and they are huge cpc values, and my biz model is never sell, we develop and fraction lease to end users a turnkey solution that includes managed PPC on my asset.

So my clients give google a ton of money, pay me a big % and they promote only my keywords, of which 99% are not hyphens.

For the first time in over 20 years we are actually liquidating some of our assets major mega billion buck industry keywords we own.

Our Biz account has them listed in make offers

Bill Collections .com is one
Food Service Provider .com is another

Not to jack this guys thread, but we think .com is king and no hyphens are best, but IF we need an asset for development we will register and develop a hyphen. Other than our liquidating a few domains recently, we never sell our assets even though for close to 18 years we have had an elite domain brokerage division where we proxy buy IP assets for big companies and we can sell the elite keyword assets to big public companies.

However 99.99% of domains are worthless IMO, not worth the reg fees.

Since we own so many keywords that are developed now, if a major IP asset isn't in our niche of what we actively run now, we have no use for it, so for the first time in over 20 years I'm actually selling some of my own portfolio.

It goes against everything I preach about Domains.

NEVER SELL
DEVELOP
FRACTION LEASE
MONETIZE
BRAND

But when you have 7 major industries you develop in and have clients in, what can you do with great assets in 1 off niches? So yeah, I'm selling legit major keywords .com

We dumped some 1 Geos recently and I love 1 Geos, but in that area we are now only doing 1 Cities

So states and countries are not in our development plans

i Prefix I'm a big fan of and I remember years ago before Apple did iphone and itunes and ipads/ipods and icloud the 'experts' mocking our i portfolio.

Now we are dumping stuff like i Business Loans .com for a lot of money, for one reason, we don't want to develop in that industry.

We do lots of development in:

Legal
Auto
Trades
Medical
Real Estate
Insurance
1 Cities

Yet we have some major keywords for

Banking/loans/mortgages
Food
Collections

No need to develop there so we're dumping them and many are very old reg's

Legal we have some hyphens but they will never be sold, they make too much money to sell.

I can literally earn 25K a month with just one hyphen from a major law firm.

Then when you realize I can stuff 500 law firms on it, why would I sell it?

A few times a year big execs at Lexis Nexis call to ask are you ready to sell, I say no, if I wanted to do legal big I would put my niece that graduated #1 at Cornell who is now with the top firm in the USA in front of my legal domains and raise enough dough in an IPO to buy Lexis Nexis.

You do not sell major assets, unless you are tired of owing something with no development plans.

So I develop where I want and now yeah, I'm violating my cardinal rule, selling major industry keywords for one reason, they're not in my niche of development and I develop in probably 65% of the major industries.

 

[Ms Domainer]

Some companies actually brand their two word company name with a hyphen and usually own the non-hyphen as well.

For SEO it doesn't matter, so for that they are great.

For PPC QS scores they are great and get an owner reduced PPC fees.

One of my top money makers is a three word hyphen on a term where the CPC is now is over 100 bucks and thousands look for this 3 word term every day and top earning professionals line up at adwords to buy the term, literally hundreds of major professionals are in line in all the top cities waiting to give google 100+ bucks a click. So IMO if the term has volumes of lookers and high CPC value, it's a no brainer, it's worth a lot if you develop it.

For maximum 'domain' value the non-hyphen is hands down the top value IP asset, but for development, it makes no difference other than the hyphen costs a lot less and they used to be easy to hand reg.

Now developers know hyphens are just as good as no hyphen.

Yes, if I were a developer and owned both the non-hyphenated and the hyphenated domain, I very well might use the hyphenated version as my main website, depending on keyword or brandable factors.

Having said this, I didn't do this with my sales site (although I own both versions because I developed the non-hyphenated before I regged the hyphenated version, an afterthought, I must admit. I actually regged it in case I acquire my own nameserver, which looks good in whois entries).

Would I get more traffic with the hyphenated version? I don't know, but I would be reluctant to chance risking it now since I have quintupled my daily traffic in two short months, and Google has had no problems parsing the words.

 

[DomainVP]

Hyphens aren't going to deter a buyer who is looking to rank for the keywords; but they are unwanted if a buyer is strictly interested in branding.

So with a hyphenated domain I start at the projected ad spend based on a 30% click through rate (CTR) for 1 year. I have found that most marketers are okay with this.

Some domainers love the hyphen niche, it's just not for me.

 

[Jen-Sin]

My name is Jen-Sin. Is JenSin.com or Jen-Sin.com more valuable to me? lol

 

[RU]

My name is Jen-Sin. Is JenSin.com or Jen-Sin.com more valuable to me? lol

cocacola.com or coca-cola.com ?)

 

[S-B]

cocacola.com or coca-cola.com ?)

You've got me there. lol

 

[biggie]

start-up or startup

x-ray or xray

 

[main]

Germans love their hyphens.

 

[buywebsites.biz]

Hyphenated domains are kind of getting left behind in the age of smartphones and tablets. On iOS atleast you have to switch away from the abc input page just to type a hyphen.

 

[RU]

You've got me there. lol

harleydavidson.com fwd to harley-davidson.com ))

 

[S-B]

harleydavidson.com fwd to harley-davidson.com ))

Blah. Stop arguing your point with logic!

 

[RU]

Looks like Frank Schilling owns type-in-traffic(.)com :D

 

[Name Trader]

I only have two and loathe to let them go ......Black-Dress and White-Dress

I'd drop them

 

[Joe Styler]

The non-hyphenated version would have been worth 6-figures without question.

Was is shane-bellone.com?

The exception to the hyphen rule is; hyphens are good on .de domains. Germans like hyphens. Hyphens on .com domains are not very desirable in general.