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HUGE DOMAINS SNIPING GODADDY CLOSEOUTS

Located in Domain Marketplace Reviews, started by wwwweb, May 6, 2019

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  1. BaileyUK

    BaileyUK Account Closed (Requested) VIP

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    I don't wish to offend anyone on Namepros. But is this just not a case of 'Scalpers' being beaten by bigger scalpers with greater resources (I don't like the term Scalpers but I can understand why it is used by some)

    Maybe I'm just familiar with the UK scene where API access is fairly common place (for a fee) and Drop-Catching has been the norm for years
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
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  2. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Between 2 or more API customers? Joe, are you aware of cases where the closeout domain was successfully purchased by a normal web based customer, but with 1 or more API customers also sending (unsuccessful) requests to purchase it (within their API limits) at the same time?

    ... wouldn't this convert auctions to a war between bots?

    For this purpose (in common binary logic sense) GD should either:

    - instantly provide API access to any and all customers, by adding appropriate section into "manage my account" interface

    OR

    - revoke any and all API accesses previously provided, make relevant code changes to prevent "home-made" automation via https, and politely ask all customers only to use their web browsers for auctions.godaddy.com

    Am I wrong here?
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  3. AnthonyD

    AnthonyD Optimal Names VIP Gold Account

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    That is very good to know, thank you for that information Joe!!
     
  4. wwwulff

    wwwulff Top Contributor VIP

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    Congratulations to HD with their latest auction purchase xwgdyq.com - Maybe they are considering a rebranding :xf.grin:
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  5. D Haynes

    D Haynes Top Contributor VIP

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    Are you able to share the request limit? Are you able to share any stats on the volume of closeout domains HD grab within say a minute of entering closeout status? A percentage of the total number maybe? Or a percentage of expired auctions they win? Only you say its very competitive but I'd say its killed the competition as its hardly worth bidding on names any more.
    It is certainly noted that you come on here to try and answer any issues and grievances people have and it is much appreciated.
     
  6. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    yeah you are wrong. I stated already that we limit the amount of api requests at any given time for closeout domains. So yes people do beat the API all you have to do is click the buy button first that puts it in your account with a hold any API call that tried wouldn't work even if you didn't pay for it yet. Like I also already stated. I get asked this a lot so I have looked into it and closeouts are very competitive. No it won't lead to a war of bots, because we limit that on purpose by limiting the calls. Will it stop the competition, no not even close, closeouts are going to remain very competitive. There are people sitting at home with their computer or multiple computers refreshing that screen on the search for that closeout just like you if it is a good name. We also limit scripting the site or hitting that too much same reasons, no ddos like actions are allowed. So logically you can only try as hard as we allow without getting blocked by a firewall. Everyone can try just as hard as anyone else those limits apply across the board.
    I think the issue is everyone knows Huge Domains buys a lot of domains. With the bidder IDs out now you should also be aware there are a lot of people who buy a lot of domains. It may seem like they are always winning but they cannot be everywhere at once even with the API due to limits on calls. The bigger buyers buy a lot because they spend a lot but they also miss out on a lot of domains too just like anyone else.
     
  7. D Haynes

    D Haynes Top Contributor VIP

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    This would be the only true way and in my opinion the best. The upshot is that it would cost GD millions in lost revenue soooo...
     
  8. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    This is not true, Huge Domains has figured a way to shoot that silver bullet in the closeouts. I hit refresh every second, and they still beat me, the second it came up at $11, and by the time I hit add to cart, within a second it was gone, a week later sitting with Huge Domains, seen this happen a few times, so its not a one time thing. API access accounts are gaming the closeout process, the same way you allowed them with the backorder loophole. Which took years to abolish.

    It's one thing to have time to respond to a bit, but there is no way a human user can beat a bot in the closeouts. Look at the open of the auction, and the close time of the auctions, they are gaming a lot of the closeouts, maybe you need to watch their access a bit closer. The closeouts should be a equal playing field as their is no added revenue to be achieved by over active bidding, the api access should be blocked for closeouts.

    I understand Huge Domains is a great partner/customer and they can get away with a lot more than the average user, but in an auction format, you have to play equals, as systems can be gamed very easily.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  9. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    Also if you want API access just ask for it. No one is saying anyone can't compete on the auctions the same way. I'm saying it isn't the silver bullet people may think it is.
     
  10. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Why? If a closeout domain is wanted by at least one customer, Huge Domains or not, it will be purchased and GD will receive the same $$$.

    Correcting myself: It may indeed change the revenue from non-closeout expired auction sales. It would be harder to place bids based on somebodys interest, third party websites will no more post "listings with bids", etc.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  11. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The best solution.
    @Joe Styler - was such a solution considered?
     
  12. Joe Styler

    Joe Styler Aftermarket Product Manager GoDaddy Staff Afternic Staff PRO VIP

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    Maybe someone has a human sitting there. Maybe you could get multiple computers, or maybe you could write a script to check for the domain quickly or pay someone else to do it, or pay for a faster internet connection, or set up the API and monitor the performance of your code and calls and rework it over and over again to look for ways to get more efficient, etc. I don't know this for certain but I would be willing to bet that people who spend a lot of money on domains and know that seconds count have also invested heavily in equipment, and internet performance and probably also closely monitor their own performance and watch for ways to cut ms off their processes to get that competitive advantage. Anyone can do it, that's really outside our prerogative of running the site. We don't have the ability to put everyone on the same computer or same internet speed or same level of coding skill, etc nor should we.
    We give everyone the same ability to use our marketplace via the same access. That is really all we can do.
     
  13. D Haynes

    D Haynes Top Contributor VIP

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    Thats what I meant yeah lower final bids on expired auctions as prices would not be hiked by HD bot bidding too.
     
  14. D Haynes

    D Haynes Top Contributor VIP

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    Would also be interesting to know if the API can return queries on "names with bids" or similar for expired auctions. I know this thread is about closeout domains but there are similar problems on expired domain auctions in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
  15. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Joe, this opens the question - why universal API access is not there by default, why ask for it?

    I think I know the answer. Imho: GD still needs human bidders. More and more API accesses = More bot wars, and more customers will decide to stop using the auctions completely as the result. Whether it is one Huge Domains or Huge Domains with dozens of other bots, the outcome would be the same as we see today.

    In other words, providing more API accesses may only shut some namepros threads (like this one) down, but it will not solve the problem.

    Logical solution - stop providing API accesses at all - or, at least, for closeout domains, is something that GD should consider instead I think...
     
  16. wwwulff

    wwwulff Top Contributor VIP

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    I think you're right, they must have found a way to snipe closeouts maybe through their API access - I live in Denmark and have the fastest internet connection you can get here (and denmark is not a 3rd world country when it comes to internet connections) and I can't beat them either. I hope this is something GD will do something about, even though this is probably not likely.
     
  17. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Thank You, for backing that up, I have a premium high speed connection also, and a few times, I have hit refresh until it shows $11, and in that split second they have already added it to their cart. There is no way I could beat them in that human element within a 1.5-2 second click.
     
  18. wwwulff

    wwwulff Top Contributor VIP

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    In the past, I got a fair share of the best closeouts I could find, but now they end up with HD (like you I have tjekked and they got them) - In the last two days I have lost two auctions to them, a 6 letter brandable where I had a max bid of 210 (they got it for 215) and a 2 word name where my max was 423 (they got it for 428) and i lost 5 closeuots which i will later check up on to see if they also ended up with HD.

    Over the last couple of days I have also experimented a little to tease HD so I placed a lot of $32 bids on names that had a starting bid of $10/12 and a $15/17 bid from HD - I placed the bids about 30 seconds before expiration and that meant HD had to pay $37 instead of the normal, $15/17 (They won them all) - It is easy to see that it is HD that has placed the bid for when you check the start bidder is always bidder 2 with a second bid from bidder 1 (HD)

    Maybe I can make a commission deal with GD where I get a share of each of the $22 I can get them extra :xf.cool:
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  19. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Godaddy will never close the API sniping in closeouts, because they want you to bid in play, and huge domains will pounce on your last minute bid, and bid you into the hundreds. Catch 22, you can’t win either way.

    This is not an auction experience, it is a grey area, and no auction should operate in such a manner.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  20. offthehandle

    offthehandle . VIP

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    ..
    I quit bidding there, not returning. Why don't you guys file a formal complaint?
    These are not defined as "auctions" in the TOS, yet they are. It would be interesting what the state might say when you get a response.

    https://www.auctionschools.com/arizona-auctioneer-requirements/

    Arizona State Consumer Protection Department
    1275 W. Washington St.
    Phoeniz, AZ 85007
    602.542.5025

    I read this thread about API's awhile back and believed it, although above it was clarified as untrue. This online mis-disinformation about API's not available- kinda have to laugh if it was intentional or not.

    "All you need is an API and write some code. Easy peasy. It’s public for everyone to see. Of course they aren’t giving out API access anymore so unless you already have an account like XXXX and XXXX and many others who are bidding against you, you have to manually do everything like a peasant."

    dsad. com /domain-shanes-daily-list-of-domains-at-auction-for-thursday-april-11th-2019/

    Why not set up a VPS next door to the auction servers or within the same cloud running your API, like they do in Wallstreet to shave off a few milliseconds?
     
  21. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Who knows, such deals may already happen in our industry. Not necessary in connection with GD-HugeDomains relations in particular or GD in general (I have no proof of course, so this post is just a theoretical assumption). Generally speaking, it is not illegal to compensate 2nd highest auction bidders in some way. Especially if the auctions are formally not auctions as per ToS - which is the case in domaining industry. And, even if was illegal... there are always alternatives how to pay. By formally hiring somebodys wife or sister with a million dollar "salary", for example.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  22. MapleDots

    MapleDots Top Contributor VIP

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    Offens someone on namepros?

    No never.... I have yet to see it :xf.wink:
     
  23. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Anyone notice godaddy auction page listed appraisals, are higher for the exact same name than the actual godaddy appraisal via the actual URL input page.

    Kind of strange.
     
  24. BrandZen

    BrandZen BrandZen.com PRO VIP

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    Speaking of GD.. they are currently down. Just called tech support and they confirmed downtime. I wonder what happens to auctions. Do they continue to end as scheduled? If yes, people that already bid will get some great deals.
     
  25. wwwweb

    wwwweb Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Check out iconi.com
    $11,xxx auction page appraisal

    $8,xxx appraisal via URL page

    People would tend to bid more, and higher amounts based on an over $3k price discrepancy via appraisal thru the same party.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019

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