HUGE DOMAINS SNIPING GODADDY CLOSEOUTS

[wwwweb]

So annoying Godaddy hasn't stopped Huge Domains from sniping Godaddy Closeouts with their automated tools, no way a human bidder can win a even closeout.

First they were sniping with the backorders, now you cut that out, and you are letting them snipe via automated tools.

So what do you say @Joe Styler , you want to even the playing field a bit, as your partners are bidding everything in a split second, from $12, to $11, and bidding everything else into the hundreds from a simple bid. I would rather pay a Huge Domains surcharge at checkout.


Huge Domains has an unfair advantage on the auction platform, essentially taxing every user for using it with their automated access advantages given to them thru the house.

 

[wwwweb]

any idea how this bot picks the names to bid on? you mean huge domains doesn't even bother with any human intervention when buying names?

its like a total automaton start to end? like a factory chain with robots only.

I am sure they use everything from age, keyword popularity, extensions, etc... and godaddy's appraisal tool, maybe views, or what other variables they have their disposal. They started this in late 2015, and did really well with the backorder loophole, where people would sit refresh for hours, not knowing Huge Domains had already placed a backorder on the closeout when the auction ended, closing out the closeout before it even had a chance to open. Of course Godaddy was exposed on that, they let it go on for a month after that instead of closing it out, rumor was somebody had bought thousands of backorders, which we all know are worthless unless for only that one thing.

Also there was a time a bot went crazy, and put bids on everything, those bids were cancelled, which goes against their own policy. So if 1 bidder gets unfair advantages, I would not call that a fair auction process, and state laws are very strict when dealing with auction matters. Many of these auctions are claiming they are exchanges, getting around such rules.

If they have a $12 name in their log, and it goes unbid into $11 closeout, there is no way a human bidder has a chance. Godaddy has given Huge Domains the access to out advantage a human bidder.


Bidder 913932 is everywhere like a virus, you can't stop it.

 

[DomainVP]

How does this happen?

I think it's because GD allows API users like Huge Domains to track changes in the number of bidders. Only the few people with API access can easily track this information.

Eh... yes and no.

I could create a HugeDomains bot in 2-3 days, probably less; without API. I can track the number of bidders without incrementing the count, and did so for years with a tidy profit. As people watched domains they were essentially (unknowingly) crowdsourcing the best daily picks for the 5-10 people who could see the data (example).

That still goes on today, but right now it's just brute force money being thrown at domains that wins them.

So right now, bot or no bot, GD expired aftermarket is not where to be.

HD got smart and just places a $12 bid on every name of value, so there goes sniping. Now the closeouts are absolute trash and $50 - which encourages people to bid against HD up to $100-$200+ for low-mid tier names. Most people think they are competing for a good name and not fighting against a bot.

GoDaddy allows their behavior because they know it drives up the overall price, and they benefit.

Companies ban bad behavior when it harms them, but they nurture it when it benefits them. We are seeing that in real time right now.

Bottom line right now - if you can build the bots and see a snapshot of the market it does give you an advantage, but not much because they are fighting with dollars now instead of speed and research.

 

[tonyk2000]

After being away from GD expired auctions for some time, I decided to try again. A few scenarios observed during the test (short time test, may not be significative) are below.

I would not list exact domains, as HugeDomains may be following this thread, no need to give them extra tips. Due to the same reason, most of amounts mentioned are not 100% exact amounts occured. Of course initial $12 bid is still $12, no changes here.

First scenario

*most typical case* - Candidates for closeouts, which were converted to auctions because of one initial $12 bid, placed in the last minutes.

Hugedomains joins as the second bidder almost instantly. In all cases, hugedomains used above-mentioned proxy bid (9-12% of the GD value). Making them pay smth. around this amount (or at least 8%-10% of the GD value) is possible then. I personally did this a few times, and they never disappointed me. They always won. In a couple of cases, I was trying to decide whether to let them have the domain for $100 (their current bid) or to force them to pay $200 (as GD value was $2000+). Even before I decided, somebody else (who looked and smelled like a bot) promptly joined and increased the hugedomains winning bid to $200. Fascinating. It was so elegant. I'd prefer to think that another bot was not looking to win the domain, but tried to make hugedomains pay as much as possible instead. Side effect: mentioned non-hugedomains bot became 2nd highest bidder (placed $195 bid and hugedomains outbid him with $200). I used bold font in the previous phrase, will later explain why.

Extra observation No 1: A half of domains I played with here (and placed the 1st $12 bid) were just... too average. They do have some sense, but normally I would not bother even to handreg such stuff, saying nothing about bidding. Moreover, I selected these "average" domains after my inhouse online+offline listfiltering script excluded them. In other words, to the best of my knowledge, there was nothing in these domains could allow an automated script to mark them as valuable for resale. So, I guess that hugedomains did not mark them for grabbing in closeouts, and, therefore, they joined just because somebody else showed interest. GD value for all domains in question was $1000+, so it is unclear would they autojoin auctions with GD value of 3 figures or less.

Extra observation No 2: Due to an average quality of domains I played with in this part, I did not try to outbid hugedomains. However, as noticed earlier in this thread, hugedomains would frequently stop and the human will win paying ~10-13% of the GD value. If so, hugedomains will become the 2nd highest bidder. Again, I used bold font in the previous phrase, and will later explain why.

Second scenario

*rare case, saw it two times only*

Also - candidates for closeouts, which were converted to auctions because of one initial bid, placed in the last minutes. However, hugedomains joined as the 3rd or 4th bidder. Due to unknown reasons, he used a proxy of just ~5%-6% instead. Which is why, for the purposes of analyzing test results, I categorized this case as rare.

One domain: many more bidders joined, and one of them won paying enduser price after some "war". Hugedomains was outbid very fast, and did not place any extra bids.

Another domain: two bots joined (or humans behaving like bots). I'd call them "BotAlpha" and "BotBeta". It looked like BotAlpha thought that BotBeta is hugedomains, and vice versa. Because each of them tried to let another one pay as much as possible, up to *9-12% of the GD value* which, as we know, is an usual hugedomains proxy. One of them won the auction, possibly inadvertently (as real hugedomains was using ~5%-6% proxy).

Third scenario

*Auctions with high activity (a lot of bidders, a few days actions length)*

Cannot say a lot here. Even if I liked the domain (not all cases), I was not willing to pay even the current highest bid, so I ignored almost all such auctions. I participated in maybe 2 or 3 auctions and placed just 1 bid (where the "current price vs quality" combination was somewhat acceptable). Naturally, I was outbid. Naturally, hugedomains was inside. He was also outbid, but his behavior was very interesting. He joined in last minutes (not a surprise), but, instead of his "normal" proxy (9-12% of the GD value) he applied the following formula: current high bid + $10 ($15, 20) - just to cover 2-4 extra steps. It is also curious that this proxy was in fact ~6% of the GD value, so he knowingly elected to pay less than he is usually ready to. And, he did this with domains of better quality. Why? Hmmm... maybe he joined just to use a chance to become the 2nd highest bidder?

Fourth,... scenario(s)

The test was limited, so there must be other HD-related scenarios I missed.

Closeouts

As expected. Anything valuable is grabbed by bots, most notably hugedomains. GoDaddy changed the closeout appearance time from random to strict (+ 5 sec. or so). How convinient for bots. GD claimed "equal access for all", but the reality is very different. As noticed a few pages before, hugedomains is now shown with bidder id 913933 and earlier it was 91932. Two bots? It would mean 2x chances to grab a closeout. Maybe hugedomains has 100 GD accounts and 100 bots, exclusively for closeouts?

The last but not the least.

What I marked in bold above (a few times). It looks and seems that on many occasions bots (hugedomains and others) are not actively trying to win, but are trying to become 2nd highest bidder instead. What if the price paid (the highest bid) is shared with the second-highest bidder, for selected customers if they are the 2nd? Under NDA. An extra incentive. Nothing illegal here, it also happens offline. Sometimes it is public, somewhat similar occured with ICANN nGTLD strings recently auctioned.

In other words, what if you outbid hugedomains (proxy $200 on 2K appraised domain) with $205, you pay $205 to GoDaddy, and GoDaddy pays revshare to hugedomains because they were the 2nd? It is just a conspiracy theory. No proof so far. And, in any case, it is not a wrongdoing from strictly legal point of view...

 

[Joe Styler]

I think its safe to say that GD don't give a single sh*t what the individual customer thinks in a situation like this lol.

I thought the expression was two shits, and we do. That is one of the reasons I spend so much time here. I want to hear what customers think and take action on that. We've implemented a lot of changes over the years from feedback on here and elsewhere directly from customers regardless of how much they spend or how many domains they have.

 

[wwwweb]

I can’t believe the Huge Domain bot is bidding like the Dow is headed to 30,000 still... somebody forgot to turn off the switch on this bad boy. You think with 7 million names, and a lot of people out of work, and the economy stalled out they would lighten the pedal, but they just keep on bidding. Bid carefully because this auto snipe bot is still active, they are still gaming the $11 closeouts, so if you want a name just put the $12 bid on it, and if they outbid you make them pay the $1xx for it, don’t let them have it for $11.

 

[wwwulff]

HD is impossible to compete with whether it is closeouts or action - For fun I followed about 15 minutes of GD action and here's what they won:

sengongpm.com - $22
srclean.com - $59
buylocalsandiego.com - $17
kaizenculture.com - $15
ocstaff.com - $15
sfseg.com - $15
reclaimedcleveland.com - $35
tradedentist.com - $15
femdoll.com - $15
floatersociety.com - $17
talniri.com - $116
coworkingon.com - $32
t1rates.com - $28

They became 2 highest bitter on the following names (their price)

centropay.com - $110 - (105)
everythingnicechristening.com - $49 - (45)
pureconcrete.com - $241 - (238)
fantasticresorts.com - $207 - (203)
exclusivecourses.com - $100 - (95)
lingasiabeauty.com - $50 - (45)

Lowest GD valuation was $253 and highest $2712

I was not interested in any of the names above, but last week I lost 12 auctions to them between $100 - 800

 

[markfromslo]

I really don’t understand the mindset with buying from closeouts?

what is the thought process with buying the domains no one wants?

it really amazes me this industry how one man’s garbage is another man’s treasure literally.

what possesses a person to bid on domains at close out?

I can only speak for myself, but I've made hundreds of thousands of dollars selling names I've bought from closeouts. But then I don't look for names using formulas that everyone else uses. For example, I just sold MindlessToMindful.com for $788, a Closeout name I paid $5 for three months earlier for $5.

And for that matter, I've made tons of money even selling names that I bought that were available. For example, I just sold DeepFakeMaker.com for $2,788 and bought it two years ago for reg fee.

You just need to have good intuition.

 

[wwwulff]

Congratulations to HD with their latest auction purchase xwgdyq.com - Maybe they are considering a rebranding

 

[wwwweb]

Huge domains operated under bidder 913932 & 913933

They don't like you taking their closeouts, and will fight for them, so far today I have made them spend $800 on domains that had no bids before they were headed to closeouts in the last 1 min, this caused a quick response bidder, with a proxy wall bid, I kept in the $1xx range, and lost them all. but made them pay about $700 more then they would have as nobody else wanted the domains at $12.

It's ok they can make the money back on dropcatch as I see the auction for RitzCarltonJapan com is close to $1xxx.

 

[wwwweb]

Don’t even bother wasting your time watching a $12 unbid domain fall into $11 closeout if huge domains has it q’ed in their automated bidding bot, no way you will ever refresh, and claim it first.

To be honest I think Godaddys relationship with Huge Domains in a traditional auction setting is breaking a lot of state regulations when it comes to auction bidding.

 

[Dave]

I think I've single handedly cost Huge Domains 6 figures this year alone. At least $10k in the last month. I've been bidding on a lot of domains I like trying to win them and they outbid me 99% of the time to prices that I'm just not willing to pay.

 

[DomainBanana]

@Joe Styler

Thank you for the reply. Earlier in this thread, you made it appear that all one needed to do to access the API was ask:

"if you want API access just ask for it. No one is saying anyone can't compete on the auctions the same way. I'm saying it isn't the silver bullet people may think it is."

"or you get API access yourself and try the same thing as anyone else with an API ... Everyone has the same opportunity."​

Now you are saying:

"Everyone does have the same access to it. In order to get it you need to prove that you cannot do what you are trying to do with the web interface."​

I am trying to compete for quality names. I cannot effectively compete using the web interface. Therefore, by your own standards, I should be granted API access.

"In the future we are looking at ways to make the closeouts more available to everyone. We have been discussing it for a while. We are not willing to grant unlimited lookups to unlimited amounts of people via API and have the site not be able to function. We have some other ideas we are investigating in conjunction with working on the auctions platform."​

Until GD figures out how to make the closeouts more available to everyone, please cut off API access to the closeouts. This will help to level the playing field.

 

[uzver]

So I'd like to share my recent experience with Godaddy auctions where HD bot was a participant. I must say everything written in this thread works without fail most of the time.

I just went thru my lost auctions at GoDaddy and compiled a simple stats.


Period: 17 Mar 2020 - 31 Mar 2020

littleserver.com - HD bot won
I personally pushed it from $12 to $82

charityassistance.com - HD bot won
I personally pushed from $12 to $17

villastar.com - HD bot won
me and couple more bidders pushed it from $12 to $55, and then HD bot joined at $65 just to be pushed by someone great all the way to $266

trustenterprise.com - HD bot won
few bidders at the beginning, and then another great bidder pushed HD bot from $63 to $123

bbelt.com - HD bot won
I haven't started this one but I was amongst the first few bidders, then another nice bidder took over and pushed the HD bot from $50 to $100

roserestaurant.com - HD bot won
four legit bidders from $12 to $85, then HD bot joined at $95 and it was pushed by another great person to $163.

yomart.com - HD bot LOST
legit bidders from $12 to $150, then HD joins at $155 and pushes another bidder to $338. Sad.

archbone.com - HD bot won
I pushed the bot from $12 to $110

emotivecreative.com - HD bot won
I pushed the bot from $12 to $60

roofanchor.com - HD bot won
I was fighting with the bot from $12 to $110, then another bidder joined and made HD bot pay $155

clouddirection.com - HD bot won
I pushed the bot from $12 to $62

bestforlife.com - HD bot LOST
legit bidders from $12 to $185, then HD joins at $190 and pushes another bidder to $361

pressconsulting.com - HD bot LOST
legit bidders from $12 to $60, then HD joins at $65 and pushes another bidder to $130

greendock.com - HD bot won
legit bidders from $12 to $258, then HD joins at $268 and another great bidder to forces HD to pay $403 for this domain

thinksupply.com - HD bot LOST
legit bidders from $12 to $120, then HD joins at $137 with this only bid, then myself and another bidder continue to $182. I wonder why HD bot didn't participate longer.

kristaupher.com - HD bot won
HD bot joins at $27, and wins the domain in a bidding war with another bidder at $137

whatworksnow.com - HD bot won
my bid $12, and HD won at $17

brainstrength.com - HD bot won
quite a few bidders participated up to $285, and HD bot won with a single bid of $290

studioday.com - HD bot won
legit bidders from $12 to $228, then HD joins at $233 and another great bidder to forces HD to pay $303 for this domain

ourhealthylife.com - HD bot won
legit bidders from $12 to $51, and then I pushed HD bot to win it at $200

art-i.com - HD bot won
legit bidders from $12 to $32, then HD joins at $37 and another great bidder to forces HD to pay $77 for this domain

presentationlab.com - HD bot won
legit bidders from $12 to $63, then HD joins and outbids another bidder's proxy bid of $222 to win the domain at $227

kidearth.com - HD bot won
legit bidders from $12 to $24, then HD joins at $29 and pushes another bidder to win at $167

exceptionalleadership.com - HD bot won
few bidders, including HD bot brings the auction to $120 mark, and then another great guy forces HD to pay $215 for the domain

gentley.com - HD bot LOST
legit bidders from $12 to $245, then HD joins at $250 and continues a bidding war with a single bidder till $356 (at this point HD exits), then the third bidder joins and wins the domain at $366 mark.

Remarks:
- by legit bidders, I mean anyone, but 913932 and 913933.
- all above auctions had no bids 15 minutes prior to auction end

There was no auction that started by me or someone else, where HD bot wouldn't join.

 

[urlurl]

well im going get my popcorn warmed up for February 1st - should be an interesting show

 

[freety85]

I second what people mentioned above. In order to understate the fact they drive up significantly prices I actually went back to check some of my drops recently on GD which were picked up by HD. I usually let go some names I consider too niche or based on other factors. As you can see not the best names...

All below names were picked up between 5-11 USD by me on closeouts in the last 2 years it is easy see they overpay most of the time.

Ghost/Connection.com 300
Ignition/Soft.com 165
Career/Moon.com 104
Gas/Future.com under 100
Article/Home.com under 100

However their business model certainly works with this "quality" as well as they simply adjust prices which leaves us with amazing quality on the actions/closeouts now with 50 starting price.

 

[Ostrados]

I was rather shocked to "win" a 4L .com auction last Friday without a fight.

So-called Western premium. Holiday weekend advantage?

In my experience 4Ls are the easiest to win in GD auctions. I think HD and other bots avoid 4Ls for some reason.

 

[NameDrop]

Impossible to win any GoDaddy auctions. Now I know why. "Huge" waste of time!

 

[wwwweb]

After spending about a good 2 weeks trying to understand their bot, if they have a name on their list, and you don't want to get sniped it closeouts, you are going to have to pay $150-2xx for it based on 10-12% of godaddy's appraised value. So the closeouts are pretty well no longer closeouts, it's more like a wholesale retail value. I don't even need to wait for the auction to end, it's so obvious how their bot just engages, it's like clockwork. You just know it's bidder 91932 just based on how it responds so strong with their top proxy.

 

[NameBuyer.com]

Due to their monstrous size, they need to purchase about 125 domains per day just to maintain their portfolio size. If they want to grow by double their sales, they would need to buy 250 domains per day. Even if they buy 250 domains per day for $200, their expenses would only be $18,250,000 for the year and they likely have over $100,000,000 in sales each year, so no problem there. I think their average is probably closer to $70-100 per domain if you include all their purchases and auction BIN snaps.

Here are some of the domains I lost to them in July & August:

NameDev.com - $206 (HD bid until $201)
WallMates.com - $37 (Listing price $2,795)
CompuConnection.com - $27 (Listing price $3,995)
InsuranceForTeens.com - $45 (Listing price $3,195)
Cheeked.com - $204 (Listing price $3,895)
InvestorNames.com - $65 (Listing price $3,595)
SureVacations.com - $54 (not listed yet)
BackyardWarehouse.com - $17 (not listed yet)
GripAssist.com - $204 (not listed yet)
Calendoo.com - $50 (not listed yet)
Fittro.com - $136 (not listed yet)
DietTrend.com - $210 (HD bid until $205)
Wallberry.com - $104 (not listed yet)
Bivys.com - $134 (not listed yet)

Average Auction Purchase Cost: $105.93
Average Sales Price: $3,495 (From what I've seen, they don't negotiate)

If I apply this same logic to my portfolio, there is no reason why I or any domain investor couldn't do the same thing to maintain their portfolio or slowly grow their portfolio. The month of August so far has been one of my biggest months at $29.1k in sales for 5 domain sales. That is an average of $5,820 per domain (2 over $5k, and 3 under $5k). To replace these domains, even if I had to spend $500 per domain, it would only be $2,500.

The most expensive and painful process is building your portfolio. Growing more once it is big is the easy part.

 

[wwwweb]

I am wondering if anyone is noticing huge domains a little bit less in the auctions lately?

Their bidder number has changed to 91933 from 91932 now.

I have not been letting them have their closeouts, simply bidding $12, and waiting for their auto bot to engage, and taking them up to $1xx range has been effective 85% of the time like clockwork.

Buying all this inventory I know is a money loser down the road as these names are really meant in the sub $30 range. So I urge many to do the same, as they will snipe the closeouts, so hit them before they go, and make them pay up if they really want them. Remember the bid, and proxy is their choice so if they really want it, then why not make them pay, and water down their margins since they have such a thirst for domains. We can make them pay, the same way they bid everyone else up. No more freebies on closeouts for them. I would assume they got tens of thousands of sniped closeouts with the backorder loophole, now they got exclusive access to snipe, talk about bending over backwards to make them feel at home.

Game on

 

[Dave]

It's almost become a waste of time playing the expired auctions game. I've not bought one for ages as I got fed up of overpaying all the time. If I keep overpaying like this I'd likely start losing money. Very rarely does a gem fall through the crack.

Yesterday seeing domains like BananaCreative.com at nearly $200. Unreal.

Good luck to all those still playing this game, it sure isn't easy.

 

[wwwweb]

I have been testing names that Huge Names would like it closeouts, usually they fall thru that 5 minute window, by putting that last minute bid in, it seems Huge Domains bot puts down their max proxy, about 12% of the appraisal. I have bid, and then backed off the bid making them pay a few hundred for a domain they would have sniped in closeouts, a few times now. I don't understand how they can keep paying up like this, no matter how good their business is on the other side, the are still bidding upwards of a thousand for premium auctions also.

 

[wwwweb]

Looks like the bot is immune to backorder bids, the $10 ones, just for the sake of investigating, looks like some poor bastard put a backorder in with a few minutes to go, the bot did not respond with a counter bid, I bid $40 counter, and the price went to $15, about 30 seconds later that dreaded outbid indicator popped up, bidded huge domains up to $190 before I bailed on the auction, and left it to wait out the close, and sure enough it was bidder 91932.

I have been agitating bids on various auctions all day, and huge domains bidder 91932 is in on all of them, like that movie where you make a sound, and the monsters come devour you. It is simply amazing, I would love to see their end of day cart totals.

I can't see them having a thirst to pay such valuations when they are closing in on 7 million domains owned, you just can't, there has to be more to their over eager bidding tactics.

 

[DomainBanana]

If you put a bid in within the last 5 minutes of an auction when there are no other bidders, the HD bot is almost always awakened and starts bidding you up like crazy.

How does this happen?

I think it's because GD allows API users like Huge Domains to track changes in the number of bidders. Only the few people with API access can easily track this information.

It's bad enough that GD gives only a few select people access to the API -- in itself a huge advantage in the aftermarket.

Why does GD go one step further and encourage API users like HD to bid based on other users activity?