question How do you usually search for a local service?

[urljunky]

I ask this question because google treats them as different search queries, for some odd reason. As I will show up in the local section for city, service consistently, but then if someone searches service, city i don't show up every time. Why would google treat them as different, when they are the same? they even treat service in city totally different results also? And how do you rank differently for each one? It makes no sense to me to rank 3rd when someone types in plumber huntington beach, but 8th for plumber in huntington beach?

 

[enlytend]

But they're not the same . They're different phrases and apparently Google sees nuances of different intent and probably different user behavior. "In" could be interpreted as "their business is physically located in this town" as opposed to a search for providers whose service area includes a given location..

As for why rankings vary, there can be a thousand reasons for that . On-site factors, off-site factors, user metrics ...

 

[urljunky]

But they're not the same . They're different phrases and apparently Google sees nuances of different intent and probably different user behavior. "In" could be interpreted as "their business is physically located in this town" as opposed to a search for providers whose service area includes a given location..

As for why rankings vary, there can be a thousand reasons for that . On-site factors, off-site factors, user metrics ...

I never took into account user metrics or behavior. That is probably a pretty big factor. Could the on site factors include the text on-site? If it is worded "plumber in Huntington Beach" Or "plumber of Huntington Beach". Or how many times a given site uses the word "in" in it's text? And how would one take into account user behavior and metrics and incorporate that into the site? That would probably be very difficult.
And also does how you set up your sites menu effect serp? Should most of the pages on-site be hidden so the url is shorter?

 

[enlytend]

You do realize you're asking details about things that take a lot of time to analyze and that I charge money to fix for people ? I can give you generic answers, but every situation is different so realize that they may or may not apply to you

Google has usage data on all sites in their SERPS, not just yours. If they think visitors prefer certain sites more for a given query, they will show those sites more often for that query.

Don't make yourself crazy about keywords. Google understands things in context. More people get in trouble for overoptimizing (aka "keyword stuffing") than for underoptimizing.

 

[urljunky]

You do realize you're asking details about things that take a lot of time to analyze and that I charge money to fix for people ? I can give you generic answers, but every situation is different so realize that they may or may not apply to you

Google has usage data on all sites in their SERPS, not just yours. If they think visitors prefer certain sites more for a given query, they will show those sites more often for that query.

Don't make yourself crazy about keywords. Google understands things in context. More people get in trouble for overoptimizing (aka "keyword stuffing") than for underoptimizing.

I'm not trying to get free advice, although I wouldn't complain, but what I'm trying to do is throw around thoughts, ideas and what other people have done that's worked for them and what's worked for me, so those of us that can't afford expensive, highly talented, professional, SEO's like yourself can formulate our own metrics, rank better on google and help each other towards this goal. I totally respect your professionalism and honesty. Not wanting to divulge your secrets and complete knowledge in your trade is understandable. If enough of us were to throw around enough ideas and things we've done that has worked for each of us, I'm sure we can all learn something. I've got my site first page in three months. And what I'm having trouble with now is expanding that to more first page ranking for different keywords and city's. Yelp does it. So can we together.

 

[enlytend]

Was just joking with the first part (hence the smiley) - I'm very open about sharing things . And while I like to think I do my job well, I do work with small local businesses so believe me, a new account doesn't mean I'm picking out the color of my next lamborghini.

But when I work on an account the first thing I do is analyze EVERYTHING - I want to see where the problems are, what you're doing right, what the competition is doing, what Google is doing with that particular niche (it may treat plumbers differently than doctors or carpet cleaners). Without that, all I can do is answer questions generically - which may be exactly what you need to hear, OR a red herring that leads you in a direction you don't need to go.

Don't take Yelp as your example - They have a different business model (since they aren't themselves a local business) and they have massive authority built up - they operate in a different world than you. If you're going to reverse engineer something, look at competitors (or plumbers in other locations) who are doing well.

This may also help you cut to the chase - 2014 local search ranking factors
as determined by some of the top people in local search. Just be aware that these are not written-in-stone, and that local search is constantly changing, so 2015 factors may look quite a bit different.

 

[briguy]

Cause I live in a border "twin" city (same name but in USA) I put in service, city, province. Even for that search google.ca, I see the border city listings. Which doesn't make sense to me, because of currency and hourly rate, way cheaper to hire locally..guess Google/yahoo/etc doesn't factor that in its algorithm

 

[iowadawg]

Google loves messing with you Canadians.

 

[enlytend]

Cause I live in a border "twin" city (same name but in USA) I put in service, city, province. Even for that search google.ca, I see the border city listings. Which doesn't make sense to me, because of currency and hourly rate, way cheaper to hire locally..guess Google/yahoo/etc doesn't factor that in its algorithm

I'd have to take a look to give you an answer, but I suspect you're seeing this in the local "pack" (with the map pins)? I tried a search for plumbers in what might be the cities you're referring to - did it a couple of ways (specifying the location, setting my location to that city, etc.) The organic listings showed results from my country of preference, the pack was mixed. You're normally can pull up local listings from a nearby town because of proximity and other ranking factors, not sure if it's typical to cross country borders. Having the same name could possibly create an anomoly.

 

[briguy]

I'd have to take a look to give you an answer, but I suspect you're seeing this in the local "pack" (with the map pins)? I tried a search for plumbers in what might be the cities you're referring to - did it a couple of ways (specifying the location, setting my location to that city, etc.) The organic listings showed results from my country of preference, the pack was mixed. You're normally can pull up local listings from a nearby town because of proximity and other ranking factors, not sure if it's typical to cross country borders. Having the same name could possibly create an anomoly.

yes just did a search for"plumbers, city province) the top half of page on my mobile had a plumbing ad, a big Canadian "yellow page" directory then local map (pins)..may be getting your site listed in "yellow page" directory (like the business section of the phone book) will help with ranking @urljunky ?

 

[enlytend]

What ranks best will vary by query and location (and device), but many yellow pages directories carry a lot of authority and can rank well. Paid listings are generally not worth it (and they will try to upsell you every chance they get ) , but having consistent basic business listings (business name, address, phone - just the facts, no spammy keyword shenanigans) in these directories can help you rank in that set of local map pins.

And, sometimes your listing on these sites will rank well by itself and send you traffic. (Google the term "barnacle SEO")

Lots of resources on this - search for things like "local search citations" or "local citation list". .For the most part you can DIY although its kind of tedious and time consuming. Or you can have an agency or a paid service do it for you.

One important thing if you DIY is don't spam. Don't try to create listings in multiple towns (unless you have multiple locations, like a medical practice with offices in 2 different towns), don't make listings in irrellevant categories, don't stuff keywords in your business name or listing info. Those things will come back and bite you.

 

[johnfsander]

With second option because it is making sense, or i would like to search "plumbers in New York". I think usually people search same with this term.