Epik Escrow

Got a "F*ck You" response from a domainer

Located in General Domain Discussion started by MapleDots, Jan 14, 2018.

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  1. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Just my 2c (after processing all sorts of inquiries during 15 years):

    - If I have a landing or parking page where the domain is marked as being for sale, the last question I'd like to hear would be "is the domain for sale and if so what price". Somebody is able to write but unable to read - how serious he is?

    - If I have a landing page with a contact form, then an inquiry made using this form has much more chances to be read and responded in timely fashion. Whois email is full of spam.

    - Openly disclosing the fact that an inquirer is a domainer would not help the sale in any aspect. I am sure there is no evidence anywhere that my pricing is based on user type or may be variable for college students, business startups or anybody else.

    - I have a bin price set, then a domainer sending an offer of about 5%-10% of showed bin would be ignored (with the "f" phrase in mind, but - in my case - not typed as a response). I see an epidemic sequence of such "offers", and, yes, from domainers, whether they disclose this fact or not.

    - If I have a bin sale configured through an instant-transfer marketplace, then I knowingly did so. I wish to sell the domain using fast transfer on the particular marketplace. Normal time management rules. Sometimes (more frequently domiainers) are trying to buy directly trying to save on marketplace fees. Well direct sale is not impossible, but the price would be higher and not lower. Manual processing vs automated processing - just this, nothing personal.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
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  2. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2010 - 2019 VIP

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    Gotta go for a bit now...

    I understand my 3rd response was harsh but I still kinda expected a dialogue of some kind. Imagine if he would have responded something like this....

    Sorry about the delay, I don't usually ignore clients. I am looking for x amount for the domain. Are you still interested?

    I bought the other domain so obviously I negotiated a fair price but one cannot get to a price if negotiations never start. It is but a select few on this forum who are fortunate enough to be in those shoes and the rest of us would gladly get a sale.
     
  3. Grilled

    Grilled Top Member VIP

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    What was the purchase price for the domain you were able to acquire?
     
  4. SpareDomains

    SpareDomains Jay VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I get a ton of inbound emails. I research who is inquiring and if it points to a domainer rare I would respond unless an initial price was mentioned that falls into my ballpark range.

    My last sale $15,900+ profit on a 16k sale, the one before that $3,400+ profit on a $3500 sale etc... I buy and hold for end user only sales so rare that a domainer would jump up to my end user pricing. Same reason I buy domains at domain forums but never sell here as I'm only looking for end user money.

    Would I say FU=Absolutely Not

    But why respond to another domainer that will tell me my price is crazy when my business model isn't pricing for domainers. Domainer wants a response insert an offer that makes me respond or show me end user money as I have zero interest in selling a domain to someone like myself=Domainer as it defeats the buy low/sell high business model.

    The right offer begins negotiations. Email from domainer fishing for prices ends up in the spam box with a few hundred other ones. I discuss prices with end users not with domainers that can then spam end users to try to sell my domains for more than my price quote. End user only negotiations/sales from my end.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  5. TestCase

    TestCase Note: Doesn't play well with others. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    And his/her expectation/perspective may have been,

    "If I haven't responded to your first two emails, I'm likely not interested in interacting with you."
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  6. johname

    johname Planet Futbol VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    First reply FU's (or equivalent) generally come from

    1) 1990's regs or other perceived value domains (want to hold forever unless Bill Gates calls)
    2) Instant clues of low baller, not a know business in the field, knowing a poor college student story just one reply away
    3) Multiple contact attempts
    4) Owner doesn't want to sell now period.
     
  7. equity78

    equity78 Top Member TLDInvestors.com TheDomains Staff PRO Gold Account VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Exactly, there are a lot of emails worded the same way, plenty of people in this industry have a strict no price, no response attitude.

    It's their property and plenty would not mind be outted, they would probably come back and say F U in this post as well.

    I would love to see Rick Schwartz get that second email, his response would have been a blog post in itself.

    I don't see the reason for FU, I do understand people not responding depending on the name.

    That's the most important part of this story that we don't know, I could see that first email being sent to @GeorgeK on a 2 letter.com he owns, or Andrew Rosener on a three letter .com. Now if the domain in question was a made up brandable or a three word, low search volume emd, that person should be more open to a reply.

    I have seen people reply, until you make an offer I am not going to discuss this, so make your best offer and then I will determine whether it's worth discussing my property with you.

    It could have been worse, I have heard stories of guys who have received emails like this who reported the email as a phishing attempt and tried to get the email blacklisted on spam lists, just because the email pissed them off.

    You never know in this business. Best of luck with future acquisitions.
     
  8. tonyk2000

    tonyk2000 Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It is the biggest problem of todays market unfortunately. I am now posting asking prices more and more frequently on landing / parking pages because of this.
     
  9. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2010 - 2019 VIP

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    On mobile... Short response
    I deal mainly in .CA

    Was a plain two word .CA with a limited resale, he should have been eager to move and would for sure not have had a lot of inquries.
     
  10. karmaco

    karmaco Top Member VIP

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    One more thing to add people often discard emails without an offer. If somebody demanded I give a price without first giving an offer I would suspect them of fishing and not a serious intent to buy.

    When someone writes you how serious do you think they are if no offer or amount is mentioned in their correspondence to you after 2 to 3 emails?
     
  11. TestCase

    TestCase Note: Doesn't play well with others. VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Once again, you are projecting YOUR point of view, ideas, norms (etc) and opinion(s) on someone else.

    As I try to teach my younger family members and staff everyday, getting to "yes" is not dependent on how you "feel", what you think or what is important to you. "Yes" will only occur when we are both sufficiently in agreement. If you start off with a negative, you are already fighting an up hill battle.

    Please don't think I'm picking on you. I'm just trying to make a point, you'll attract more bees with honey...
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  12. Domain Shane

    Domain Shane Top Member DSAD.com Staff PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    There is one great way to get me to respond to an email. Make a good offer. I answer $100% of those. The emails with lots of words with no numbers get read and set aside. I would never say FU even if I received three emails with no offer. It that case its easier to say nothing. I almost always just respond with a price to give them an idea of what I would like to get for the name. It usually ends the emails. Any criticism of the price or my communication or lack thereof, is ignored because I am in control. I own the domain. No sense in my getting mad or rude.

    In short, let a good offer lead your email and I find responses go way up.
     
  13. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I don't think a "F*ck You" was warranted, but I do have a problem with the following lines -

    That said, I was very interested in your domain and it is your loss not to have responded. As a domainer myself I feel this is very poor business management on your behalf.

    First of all selling to another domainer rarely works out. You also made no actual offer.
    The inquiry to me would have come off like a standard tire kicker.

    I would just have given a response like "Feel free to make a serious offer." or "Pass".

    Serious buyers make serious offers. Unless there is an actual offer on the table there is nothing to work with or bother taking seriously in my view.

    Brad
     
  14. james haw

    james haw Top Member VIP

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    Don't take offence, just being to the point/matter of fact :)


    Surely the 2nd email (a few weeks apart) is indication they're not interested? Then sure a 3rd email to say "this is my final email, all the best if you don't reply" in case they've missed the other 2.

    However, having no response by the 2nd email doesn't give you right to be a bit miffed with them on the 3rd, as if they have some kind of obligation to reply to you at all, let alone within 2 emails. On that vein, you contradict yourself a bit by sending a slightly sour grapes email while advising on "very poor business management". They don't have to reply, so you telling them they're bad for doing so is gonna pluck at some nerve endings.

    Seeing you on this forum you seem legit etc, but in an email, you are unknown, a cold email from nowhere from what could be anyone from anywhere with any intention whatsoever.
    All spammers and lowballers say "we are professional - only serious offers and professional dealings", so you saying such things in no way whatsoever identifies your level or professionalism and separates you from them. That needs professional comms, and you blew that by your 3rd email.

    Your impression to that person was - you are a domainer and if you don't get a reply from 2 emails you are a bit sour and judgemental.

    There were no expectations on the other side at this point, just yours. So you lost that purchase, not the other way around.



    It's arguably good business to not initially offer as you may over shoot, but the combination of not making an offer and stating you are a domainer and being a bit offhanded, entirely smells of lowballer and unprofessional to me, to be fair.

    Not sure what you expected from the 3rd email, so was pointless to even send.
    If you (somehow) push someone to engage in discussions who didn't really want to (as you did try), their price is gonna be high and you have them on the defensive! Neither are good on the starting point as a buyer! Gotta be professional and bite your tongue - heck it's email, you have every chance to walk away for 20 mins, breathe a bit and come back and let it go and send a professional email.

    I also suggest refraining from mentioning being a domainer. What does it imply? "I want your domain for cheap!" is the usual thought and other domainers know this. I guess you meant "I'm in the business so am professional", but so many people claim they're a domainer and it means squat as many are not professional.


    Once discussions are underway if they don't come down to your price expectations then you could mention you're a reseller so wanting it for a little less than end user price. At least at this stage you've had comms and know this is a potential legit sale and not a waste of their time, even if your price expectations don't marry up.


    Maybe that other person was inundated, perhaps even were getting around to replying to you. Either way whatever their circumstances, you saying "you're not good and have bad business management, your loss" is itself not good business and is never going to get people on side to do business with.
    It just makes them think "FU pal"... as happened...
     
  15. DBurn

    DBurn Account Auto-Closed

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    I can see how an end user might send 3 e-mails to a domain name seller if the domain name relates directly to their business. But a "reseller" sending 3 e-mails on one domain? I rarely send 2 ... mostly if the first is not answered, I move on. Way too many domain names for resellers to invest in than to get caught up on one particular name from one seller which eventually led to you insulting that seller.
     
  16. Domainscoop.com

    Domainscoop.com Established Member

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    Dont like your approach about telling people that they are going to loose while you are trying to profit from them by telling them that you are a domainer.

    By telling them you are a domainer, it already say so that you wont pay good monies anyway, and on the top of that you are telling them they are going to lose money if they dont respond, or if they dont sell (you are implying that via your wording)


    Tell me why you should not get a response as such, i think imho you deserve that response. No one is entitled to your needs and wants, they should not be responding, or dont have to engage.

    Domain sales is not same as car sales by the way. Comparing apple to oranges? I would say just chill a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  17. Silentptnr

    Silentptnr Hey From L.A. VIP

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    Two options:

    1. Ask for a bin price
    2. Make your true best offer

    Anything else should just be doing a little homework.
     
  18. ecalc

    ecalc Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Maple,
    Instead of pestering people just go to escrow.com and start an unsolicited new transaction with a strong offer. The domain registrant will accept or counter if interested. Problem solved, good luck!
     
  19. mayazir

    mayazir VirtualNameMarket.com VIP

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    @MapleDots, suscribe him on all services you could find..
     
  20. jideofor

    jideofor Top Member VIP

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    Many domainers will go to the grave with their domains... period!
     
  21. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2010 - 2019 VIP

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    The problem with bringing this topic up on a domaining forum is you're going to get domainers jumping in defending domainers.

    I look at it as an end user making two inquiries for a domain, supplying all the required contact information. Full name, non generic email and telephone number. Both times I asked to be treated seriously and to please respond.

    Problem here on the forum is you guys keep focusing on the wrong part. Yes I did end the negotiation at my third attempt but the point here is there were two legitimate attempts.

    Hence the problem with me talking to domainers (like me) and everyone coming to the defense of the person in question.

    Remember the fact that I am a domainer has nothing to do with it. I inquired as an end user and we in the community keep thinking an end user has to know how to respond. Well they don't, they ask how much that is what they do. By not engaging them we are losing out as a group. It boggles me that we defend this when we sell only one thing. My gosh, how can I ignore someone reaching out to purchase my domain when I am advertising that domain.

    Guys, I don't understand.... I am sorry I will never get it. The retail public knows nothing about our procedure or how to act or respond. At two requests a good businessman will respond. Sure I got frustrated at my third attempt but I have purchased lots of domains without making an initial offer. He could have said what are you offering or make an offer. Ignoring is NOT the best way to make a deal.

    Sure I got frustrated but being in the business I cannot get over the amount of people doing sales that don't respond to incoming inquiries. Other types of businesses advertise with thousands of dollars to get inbound inquires. Now lets just ignore them and see what we sell.

    Fortunately I do respond and I sell domains but as a buyer I'll stick to closeout and auctions from now on because trying to buy from some domainers is like pulling teeth.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  22. DomainGist

    DomainGist Top Member VIP

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    Its difficult to really form an opinion without knowing the domain(s), but one thing worth considering is that the domainer already has their end user in mind, 'the one' who is going to pay a fortune for their domain. Like trying to fish for the one huge pike in the lake and having to shake off all the little perch who are nibbling your bait.

    I've got at least one domain right now which I'm really hoping gets a bite from a specific pike. No idea if you have pike and perch in Canada, but its the best analogy I could think of.
     
  23. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2010 - 2019 VIP

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    Two word .ca realistic value under 1k.
    I bought the equivalent (spelling variation) from the other guy that did respond for twelve hundred bucks.

    Believe me I know the .ca business I own and deal with hundreds of them. A .ca inquiry will never be a million seller. 25k is usually the outside max for great 1 word ones. A two word is only valuable as a direct business name and seriously it was a so so domain I was inquiring about.

    I cannot fathom that my inquires were not responded to, I cannot get it. Had that been an inquiry on one of mine I would have closed the deal. sh*t I am in the business of selling not ignoring.

    I get every day folks saying hey man are you selling the domain. I say yes, I don't ignore them. I mean holy sh*t, I am dealing in crappy little .ca domains not one word premium .coms!!!
    That is what I was inquiring on a crappy little .ca not even an especially good one and certainly not a premium of any kind.

    OK done with my little rant now :xf.smile::xf.smile:

    So sorry about that :xf.grin:
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  24. MapleDots

    MapleDots Domain Properties 2010 - 2019 VIP

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    HeHe, good one but I used his online submittal form.

    He had no place for offer, it only said comment so if he does not respond unless he gets an offer then he would be best to put an offer field. I think two form sumbmittals should have been responded to especially because he could have tracked my business email to a legitimate business. He had real name, real email, real phone number and was contacted twice. Sorry but that to me shows poor judgement and I felt obliged to tell him that. Sure he had a right to tell me to f off but it was still poor business on his behalf.
     
  25. DomainGist

    DomainGist Top Member VIP

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    And he felt obliged to tell you to f*ck off, so you've both said what you want to.

    This thread is a bit pointless now unless you are going to name and shame, for additional excitement. Then we can all buy popcorn when somebody offers him the right of reply.
     

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