Flippa and his curious solution

[Dondomainer]

After selling a domain. have confirmed my account with my credit card, have also confirmed my account with the phone, my email, have transferred the domain to buyer,

Flippa says that they send payment through paypal, if I add my bank account and as an alternative solution they say :

If the buyer has already received the assets and wishes to send you funds directly via PayPal, I'm happy to refund the Buyer's payment.

Also they say that $ 5 of my credit card frozen for two days, were not to authenticate my account, wait a minute, then flippa lie because that's exactly what they say.

His solution is utterly disappointing, worthy of a novice website.

I don't feel safe on offer too much information about me, I think they have created a system that works more like a financial institution as a domain market.

In the end, I do not know when I can collect my money, a complete nightmare.

 

[ForceAwakens]

Jen-Sin, nothing to add. Just wanted to say that you are a great writer. Quite impressed !

 

[Joshua Mangan]

AirBNB does not ask this of anyone.

Yes - AirBnb does require this.

See https://www.jumio.com/2013/05/airbn...ower-new-identification-verification-product/

 

[Dave_Z]

(Neither does Paypal)

Going off the OP's topic for a moment, looks like PayPal does depending on its location:

https://www.paypal.com/sg/webapps/mpp/confirm-your-identity

At least, the link above referenced a Singapore gov't. authority memo of sorts.

While I realize I seem to defend Flippa (Escrow) here, I think the point they've been trying to make is they want to be able to prove their user's identify if ever questioned by a government entity. Kind of a just-in-case thing despite the unannounced, uninvited and unwanted inconvenience it entails for everyone involved.

I'm not too keen on such a thing, either, albeit I somewhat recognize the necessity due to the amount of fraud and similar incidents happening. Heh, just the word fraud is enough to get anyone upset---and that's if one mentions it while trying to explain.

Anywho, Flippa's people recognize the concerns (or complaints) some of you folks posted here. Won't be easy figuring out how to resolve everyone's concerns, but...I'm sure they'll figure out something. The sooner the better of course.

If anything otherwise happens, one can always document about it for others to learn.

Good luck.

 

[FlippaDomains]

Anywho, Flippa's people recognize the concerns (or complaints) some of you folks posted here. Won't be easy figuring out how to resolve everyone's concerns, but...I'm sure they'll figure out something. The sooner the better of course.

We definitely do recognize, and are working with PromisePay to address all.

One thing I have mentioned in the recent past about what we (Flippa) can do sooner is to provide information about this potential ID request, either upon Flippa account signup, or upon designation of Flippa Escrow as a payment method. Then at least customers will know *upfront* that this may be required of them.

 

[Jen-Sin]

Flippa and AirBnb are certainly not alone in having strict verification measures. Other payment companies including PayPal are subject to the same rules as PromisePay/Flippa Escrow. PayPal actually have similar policies as Flippa Escrow. See https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/confirm-your-identity

I have mentioned in my earlier post the number of standard methods (documentary and non-documentary) financial institutions are recommended to verify a user.

For PayPal, Australians will be verified electronically, and if it can't be done electronically, users just need to submit an ID to verify name and date of birth and another document to verify address.

U.S. residents using PayPal either need to add and confirm a bank account with a phone call or get approved for their MasterCard or add a credit card if they live outside U.S. to verify their identity.

My experience as a Singapore resident, PayPal will notify us to confirm our identity when we are reaching a total transaction value of S$7,500. We will have 15 and 40 days from the notification before the account is limited. Users can still receive payments after 15 days. Only after 40 days of not submitting the documents will the user not able to send, receive or withdraw money. We only need to submit front and back of our ID, as it confirms the name, date of birth and address, reasonably sufficient to verify someone. We are required to upload the documents securely in the website, and not through a third-party site.

I used the examples of the 3 locations as PromisePay have offices in the 3 countries. The financial rules subjected to PayPal and PromisePay should be similar.

For Flippa (and/or Flippa Escrow), verification is not done upfront, nor spelled out clearly when it is required after certain milestones (e.g. 7,500 sgd transaction). From reading the forum threads, users seems to require to submit ID and selfie holding ID and bank details and credit card charge for verification. Double verification by Flippa and Flippa Escrow accentuates this impression. Users are suspended / banned almost immediately when required to verify, with a label besides our usernames that we had broken terms and conditions. During verification, one can't bid and auctions disrupted.

Will you present the exact financial rules instead of telling us these are KYC / AML / CTF laws Flippa is subjected to? Without showing us the exact regulations, your customers will continue to believe that these requirements are not an industrial standard as no other companies we are familiar with are demanding such requests, especially so when we tried to read up on the rules and they don't seem to match our experiences.

As I had mentioned to @FlippaDomains many times, please treat us as valued customers first and not "potential crooks."

 

[Jen-Sin]

Hi Joe, I was specifically referring to Flippa asking users to both submit their photo id via a scan (perfectly normal of course!) AND hold their photo id next to their faces. (Selfie with id)

AirBNB does not ask this of anyone. (Neither does Paypal)

Flippa is the only major company of nearly 100 I have checked that does this.
www DOT airbnb DOT com/help/article/450/what-is-verified-id

I'm close to creating a subReddit or article on Consumerist on this, just because I don't know of any other company that asks for such a thing.
For full disclosure I should mention I'm a privacy rights activist, so this issue is close to my heart.

Thanks for your time.

Yes - AirBnb does require this.

See https://www.jumio.com/2013/05/airbn...ower-new-identification-verification-product/

The jumio link did not mention they require a photo ID scan AND selfie with ID and other methods such as bank details and credit cards, which Flippa seems to require all.

Jumio powers the offline identification portion of Airbnb’s new tool, enabling users to quickly scan and verify their government-issued photo ID. The new product is designed to increase transparency and provide users in the Airbnb community with information that may be valuable to them in making their decisions.

Using their computer cameras and Netverify, Airbnb users can now scan an image of their government-issued photo ID as part of the ID verification process. Jumio is currently integrated into the Airbnb web sign-up process, and will be launching on Airbnb’s mobile app in the near future.

Jumio’s Netverify enables businesses with online and mobile distribution to meet KYC and ID verification requirements through real-time scanning, and validation of government-issued IDs from over 60 countries. Netverify also scans a range of other documents such as bank statements and utility bills used for address verification or other purposes.

What Jumio is doing is consistent with what I have read and shared earlier about KYC requirements, which is to verify enough information to form a reasonable belief that it knows the true identity of the customer.

 

[Jen-Sin]

Going off the OP's topic for a moment, looks like PayPal does depending on its location:

https://www.paypal.com/sg/webapps/mpp/confirm-your-identity

At least, the link above referenced a Singapore gov't. authority memo of sorts.

While I realize I seem to defend Flippa (Escrow) here, I think the point they've been trying to make is they want to be able to prove their user's identify if ever questioned by a government entity. Kind of a just-in-case thing despite the unannounced, uninvited and unwanted inconvenience it entails for everyone involved.

I'm not too keen on such a thing, either, albeit I somewhat recognize the necessity due to the amount of fraud and similar incidents happening. Heh, just the word fraud is enough to get anyone upset---and that's if one mentions it while trying to explain.

Anywho, Flippa's people recognize the concerns (or complaints) some of you folks posted here. Won't be easy figuring out how to resolve everyone's concerns, but...I'm sure they'll figure out something. The sooner the better of course.

If anything otherwise happens, one can always document about it for others to learn.

Good luck.

@Dave_Z, I'm a Singapore citizen and I have been subjected to PayPal verification before.

They just need a proof of name and address, which is satisfied by the front and back of our NRIC. They do not require selfie with ID, and they notify in advance when one is reaching the SGD 7,500 transaction milestone.

PayPal Singapore doesn't verify us just when we want to withdraw money after a transaction.

After notifying us, PayPal Singapore will only restrict sending and withdrawing funds after 15 days, and restrict sending, receiving and withdrawing funds after 40 days. They don't suspend / ban users almost immediately, with a tag hanging besides our username that we may have broken terms and conditions.

This is why I suggest to @Joshua Mangan to study how other marketplaces / escrow companies conduct their KYC, instead of always telling us the same story that other companies require the same, when we inform Flippa it's not from our experiences.

 

[Dondomainer]

Well, another week ends and nothing about my money.

 

[FlippaDomains]

Well, another week ends and nothing about my money.

I'm following up for you now.

 

[FlippaDomains]

@gipson

Thanks for your patience. I've PM'd you. Do let me know if you want me to explain more here so all can follow along.

 

[bigbagofbricks]

I'd like to know how OP is dealing with tax etc. while not having a bank account. Seems to me that to be a domainer would require a bank account so I have no sympathy here.

 

[Dondomainer]

Problem has been resolved satisfactorily.

 

[Mr Dobalina]

Phone: +61 (3) 9090 8260

You can call their office if you need to. It's more of an apartment

 

[FlippaDomains]

Phone: +61 (3) 9090 8260

You can call their office if you need to. It's more of an apartment

We have an international team across multiple offices.

We do not have phone support.

Sounds like you have gripes, but I do not know, specifically, what they are. Feel free to get in touch if you'd like my help.

 

[FlippaDomains]

Problem has been resolved satisfactorily.

Thanks for your patience, and I am glad we could assist.

 

[DANEYAL]

Just stumbled on this page just now, and I really appreciate the photo ID kind of things are raised here. I am really satisfied with Flippa Escrow services so far. It would become great if we have the feature of controlling the release of our payments through payment dashboard.
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@ForceAwakens @Jen-Sin reasonably good points on identification issues, things should be flexible in general & from case to case basis. After all rules are for humans, not humans are for rules. Things operate better when tackled in Human way, rather than mechanically rigid legal lines, imo.
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I really appreciate @FlippaDomains for staying updated directly with issues like this, and for the Human Support that has been extended all the time by involving in matters like this directly, please keep it up.

Regards,
Daneyal F.

 

[GoKaizen]

to avoid issues, accept only direct paypal payment after a sale. and make it clear when you get offer and negotiate, or in your listing, if you list auctions.

not sure how to handle it with buynow listings, as I have none. but I sure as heck do not sell on flippa, unless its a direct paypal payment after the sale is made on flippa.

Couldn't the buyer claim they never got the domain or website with PayPal?

 

[alcy]

Couldn't the buyer claim they never got the domain or website with PayPal?

never happened to me. I'm sure scammers can claim anything, so u can keep your emails or a screenshot maybe, for any low fedback suspicious lookin buyer, to show to paypal if they do make the scam claim on u

 

[GoKaizen]

never happened to me. I'm sure scammers can claim anything, so u can keep your emails or a screenshot maybe, for any low fedback suspicious lookin buyer, to show to paypal if they do make the scam claim on u

You use PP exclusively on Flippa?

 

[alcy]

You use PP exclusively on Flippa?

I try. some want escorw though

 

[GoKaizen]

What's wrong with using an escrow service?