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Flippa and his curious solution

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After selling a domain. have confirmed my account with my credit card, have also confirmed my account with the phone, my email, have transferred the domain to buyer,

Flippa says that they send payment through paypal, if I add my bank account and as an alternative solution they say :

If the buyer has already received the assets and wishes to send you funds directly via PayPal, I'm happy to refund the Buyer's payment.

Also they say that $ 5 of my credit card frozen for two days, were not to authenticate my account, wait a minute, then flippa lie because that's exactly what they say.

His solution is utterly disappointing, worthy of a novice website.

I don't feel safe on offer too much information about me, I think they have created a system that works more like a financial institution as a domain market.

In the end, I do not know when I can collect my money, a complete nightmare.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Flippa is my least favorite place to transact domain. I feel like they are trying too hard sometime to be awesome and cool with their platform, however you can always feel there is always this disconnect between their process and their customer support.

And while Im at it, I also feel like they work like big retail banks on how they make money, which is to fee you to death, this is true especially for sellers, which is why I stay away from them. I do however buy domains occasionally on their platform.

With that said, Im 100% sure you will get your money, it looks like this was just a misteps somewhere.
 
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News from Flippa, You can believe this?

Hi there,

Thanks for following up!

I am not seeing where the buyer has made payment for the property using Paypal or Flippa escrow. Kindly reach out to the buyer to indicate that he do the same.

Buyers are given a short period to respond. If the buyer has not responded within 72 hours then you may file a dispute against him/ her.
 
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News from Flippa, You can believe this?

Hi there,

Thanks for following up!

I am not seeing where the buyer has made payment for the property using Paypal or Flippa escrow. Kindly reach out to the buyer to indicate that he do the same.

Buyers are given a short period to respond. If the buyer has not responded within 72 hours then you may file a dispute against him/ her.

Did you receive the following email notifications previously from Flippa?

1. Buyer has made payment for 'Flippa listing #XXXXXXX'
2. Buyer has released payment for 'Flippa listing #XXXXXXX'
 
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Did you receive the following email notifications previously from Flippa?

1. Buyer has made payment for 'Flippa listing #XXXXXXX'
2. Buyer has released payment for 'Flippa listing #XXXXXXX'


Yes,, the same day I transferred the domain, i received the email from Flippa



so, i do not know whatis happening, It is unacceptable.
 
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Normally there is a success fee in the transaction:

Screen Shot 2016-01-14 at 16.37.37.png


This is weird but mine was an auction and not a domain classified.

Have you communicated with the buyer as well as replied to Flippa?

@FlippaDomains is at NamesCon and will be able to assist you in this when he is back.
 
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Normally there is a success fee in the transaction:

I understand now why there is no success fee for your transaction as you had paid it separately.

Hope Flippa can fix this issue with you soonest.
 
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I don't recall speaking to you directly, @gipson - I was away due to a family emergency, and then was at Namescon. I am just now seeing this post. Let me investigate and respond fully. BTW, this is a Flippa Escrow issue. Flippa does not hold your money; Flippa Escrow does.

Back soon.
 
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BTW, this is a Flippa Escrow issue. Flippa does not hold your money; Flippa Escrow does.

Back soon.

Pawning problems off on other portions of the business is a little corny. The prefix to the escrow business is still Flippa.
 
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Yes, four messages since January 8, and one solution :

If the buyer has already received the assets and wishes to send you funds directly via PayPal, I'm happy to refund the Buyer's payment.

I did not write this.

Need to know your transaction ID, URL and/or username so I can assist. Thanks.
 
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Pawning problems off on other portions of the business is a little corny. The prefix to the escrow business is still Flippa.

Hey Shane. Were you at Namescon? Sorry I missed you.

This actually is strictly a payment issue. I'm not pawning anything off; I need to look into it, but we also do not control money. Flippa Escrow (PromisePay) is an Escrow service the marketplace uses that has insight into where the money is, and where it goes. It's not like I'm sitting on a massive bank account and can track everything in front of me, personally.

I'm going to reach out to my team and see what happened. @gipson - anything you can PM me would be appreciated.
 
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Gipson, good point you make in posting that link to the San Jose BBB.
A lot of people assume Flippa is solely doing business out of Australia.

But as they are fully entrenched in San Fran, they're under California laws.
This also brings up the situation that California has several different orgs that protect consumer rights.

One of them advises consumers to safeguard personal ids.
I noticed this issue on another thread and thought I would give a heads
"
Providing your driver's license could put you at risk of identity theft
Think twice before allowing businesses and others to record your data"
consumerreports dot org/cro/news/2013/12/drivers-license-identity-theft/index.htm

oag DOT ca DOT gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/privacy/business_privacy_handbook.pdf.
www DOT dca DOT ca DOT gov/publications/guide/ref_guide.pdf
www DOT leginfo DOT ca DOT gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=civ&group=01001-02000&file=1747-1748.95
www DOT privacyrights DOT org/what-personal-information-should-you-give-merchants
 
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Based on previous threads of having to send in ID'S based on their escrow terms the couple transactions I've done there I used Escrow.com instead as not a fan of sending my id across the internet to companies.
 
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I have no private bank account, is shared with my family, so I can not compromise all that.

This is what Flippa says :

The reason we ask for your bank details (and photograph or other identification, if necessary) is to identify you and your business (if applicable).

This is to ensure that we remain compliant with government bodies such as the United States Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) and the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT) in relation to the relevant financial sanctions law.

These details are run through a fraud and risk screening process known as KYC (Know Your Customer) to determine whether you (or any other customer) may be engaging in identity theft, financial fraud, money laundering, or terrorist-financing activities. We are required to do these checks to remain in compliance with financial and governmental regulations.

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WHAT IS OFAC ?

The Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the US Department of the Treasury administers and enforces economic and trade sanctions based on US foreign policy and national security goals against targeted foreign countries and regimes, terrorists, international narcotics traffickers, those engaged in activities related to the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, and other threats to the national security, foreign policy or economy of the United States. OFAC acts under Presidential national emergency powers, as well as authority granted by specific legislation, to impose controls on transactions and freeze assets under US jurisdiction. Many of the sanctions are based on United Nations and other international mandates, are multilateral in scope, and involve close cooperation with allied governments.

https://www.treasury.gov/about/orga...s/Pages/Office-of-Foreign-Assets-Control.aspx
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I have no words...I mean, wtf ..It is not a missile, an you are in US.
 
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I asked advice to a law firm about how OFAC affects me and the answer was simple, this law does not affect me in any way, because I am in Florida, United States and Flippa in Los Angeles.

Here more about OFAC .

Compliance for Internet and Web Based Activities
Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons (SDN's).

A number of Internet-based financial service companies already developed Internet Protocol (IP) address blocking procedures. These companies use publicly available data to maintain tables of IP addresses based on geographic region. Users attempting to initiate an online transaction or access an account from a sanctioned country are blocked based on their IP address. While this approach is effective, it does not fully address an Internet firm’s compliance risks. The fact that international distribution authorities can reassign IP blocks makes the geographic location of an IP potentially dynamic.

The anonymous character of Internet-based transactions often places obstacles in the path of rigorous compliance practices. Firms that facilitate or engage in e-commerce should do their best to know their customers directly. In order to minimize their liabilities, Internet remittance and account service firms should attempt to gather authentic identification information on their customers before a new account is opened or new transaction is initiated. This information will help confirm the customer’s identity and help the e-commerce firm ensure it is not conducting business with a sanctions target. Currently many Internet remittance companies use credit card authentication as the primary method of confirming a customer's identity. While this method is technologically expedient, it does not meet the standards of due diligence normally found in the non-Internet-based financial community. A company cannot rely on another firm’s compliance program in order to mitigate risk.

It is recommended that e-commerce firms gather and record "purpose of payment" information on each transaction they process. In the non-Internet sector, financial institutions are able to stop in-process transactions and gather more information on them. Due to the level of automation found within the Internet financial sector, this type of in-process information gathering is not always possible. Collecting information on the purpose of payments up front will allow Internet firms to better screen outgoing and incoming transactions for potential violations. [04-13-04]


Specially Designated Nationals List (SDN)

As part of Its Enforcement Efforts, OFAC Publishes a list of Individuals and companies owned or controlled by, or acting for or on Behalf of, targeted Countries. Also it lists Individuals, groups, and entities, Such as terrorists and narcotics traffickers designated under programs That are not country-specific. Collectively, Such Individuals and companies are called "Specially Designated Nationals" and "SDNs." Their assets are blocked and US persons are prohibited from Generally Dealing with them.


Plz, try : https://sanctionssearch.ofac.treas.gov/

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So Flippa lying when he says that must comply with a requirement from OFAC.
 
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Because the funds are in the Flippa Escrow vault, and because you do not have a bank account, they cannot pay out to you. I have asked you for your Flippa Escrow Customer Support ticket ID, since you've claimed to have been speaking to them. Upon receipt of that number, I can speak with their reps to see how we can get you your money.
 
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Because the funds are in the Flippa Escrow vault, and because you do not have a bank account, they cannot pay out to you. I have asked you for your Flippa Escrow Customer Support ticket ID, since you've claimed to have been speaking to them. Upon receipt of that number, I can speak with their reps to see how we can get you your money.

Hi Kevin, perhaps you missed my post [#37] but can you clarify Flippa requesting a driver's license held next to one's head as proof of id ?

This seems like a ns@ type of invasion of privacy and goes against many consumer privacy advocates' advice.

Plus, I am aware you have a US base in San Fran and California is not keen on consumers being forced to share private info.

I am bored right now and killed time looking for any other well know entity that requests a user's id be submitted as a selfie.

air bnb - uber - paypal - facebook = None of them request this.

Facebook offers what seems like a sensible way to prove id:

The types of IDs that Facebook accepts:
  • Birth certificate
  • Driver's license
  • Passport
  • Marriage certificate
  • Official Name change paperwork
  • Personal or vehicle insurance card
  • Non-driver's government ID
  • Green card, residence permit or immigration papers
  • Social Security Card
  • Voter ID Card
In addition, Facebook will also accept any of the two following items that must show the name and date of birth of the locked out Facebook user.

  • Bank statement
  • Bus card
  • Check
  • Credit Card
  • Employment verification
  • Library card
  • Mail
  • Magazine subscription stub
  • Medical record
  • Membership IDs
  • Paycheck stub
  • Permit
  • School card
  • School record
  • Utility bill
  • Yearbook photo

Thanks
 
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@ForceAwakens These are valid points and good questions, and I'm gathering a response from their Melbourne-based team.

Am actively looking into @gipson 's case; we're PM'ing some details and I should know more soon.
 
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Hi everyone

Thanks for the feedback.

In the majority of transactions (more than 97%), Flippa Escrow verifies users' identities without photo verification. Flippa Escrow is able to verify the majority of our users' identities automatically by matching their details with public records. Occasionally (less than 3% of transactions), these automated checks fail triggering the need for photo verification. These checks usually fail because the customer provides information that is inconsistent with other information they have provided or with public records.

Just to clarify - "Flippa Escrow" is not operated by Flippa. It is operated by a trusted payments company called PromisePay. The payments industry is highly regulated, and PromisePay is required to comply with KYC (know your customers) / AML (anti-money laundering) / CTF (counter terrorism financing) laws. If PromisePay fails to comply with these laws, they could be shutdown and potentially face criminal charges.

While I can appreciate that photo verification is frustrating - it is required in rare situations to comply with the law. We are working closely with PromisePay to make Flippa Escrow as easy as possible to use and reduce the number of instances that photo verification is triggered.

I am bored right now and killed time looking for any other well know entity that requests a user's id be submitted as a selfie.

air bnb - uber - paypal - facebook = None of them request this.

Actually, there are a number of well known entities that require photo verification. Infact, AirBnb is one such entity. It is quite well known that AirBnb uses Jumio Netverify. Other companies include Groupon and BetFair just to name a few.

Gipson - PM either Kevin (@FlippaDomains) or myself and we will be more than happy to assist.

I would also like to highlight that Flippa provides Flippa Escrow for free for customers. Customers are also welcome to use escrow.com at their own expense (and we have even negotiated cheaper rates on your behalf).

Gipson - I do not recommend that you use PayPal as it is the least secure payment method (although is probably the quickest and easiest).

Josh
 
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Hi everyone

Gipson - I do not recommend that you use PayPal as it is the least secure payment method (although is probably the quickest and easiest).

Josh

What is unheard for me is, why Flippa can take money from my credit card before authentication, but when it is their turn to pay slows down the entire process.

At this point, I've been waiting 15 days for any solution under justification for the implementation of OFAC Program, which, I am 99% sure that is a lie, at least in my case. but otherwise, is not a bad idea to send a complaint letter to the Treasury Department, about why they block or involved in my business.
 
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i guess someone triggered an algorithm within Flippas system as a potential trouble maker : } which by the way is about 3% of the community as they stated
..... i wish i had that technology within my system ,
 
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i guess someone triggered an algorithm within Flippas system as a potential trouble maker : } which by the way is about 3% of the community as they stated
..... i wish i had that technology within my system ,

Just to clarify - just because Flippa Escrow fails to automatically verify a user's identity does not mean that they are a trouble maker. Of the 3% of transactions that require photo verification - the vast majority are subsequently confirmed as legitimate transactions using photo verification.

What is unheard for me is, why Flippa can take money from my credit card before authentication, but when it is their turn to pay slows down the entire process.

At this point, I've been waiting 15 days for any solution under justification for the implementation of OFAC Program, which, I am 99% sure that is a lie, at least in my case. but otherwise, is not a bad idea to send a complaint letter to the Treasury Department, about why they block or involved in my business.

Everything that has been said to you is the truth. We are trying to work with you to resolve this issue.
 
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@Joshua Mangan,

I think the main issue is the disconnect between Flippa and your customers. Flippa is very quick to suspend and/or ban. Even a request to get a user verified will get an account suspended / banned. This is very disruptive to ongoing bidding and auctions.

In addition, Flippa and Flippa Escrow seems to be conducting customer identity verification independently. A customer who is properly verified by Flippa may need to face another around of verification by Flippa Escrow. Instead of Knowing Your Customer, it seems that the organisation does not know the customer at all, and seems to require many verifications. With many verifications along the way, we customers sometimes wonder whether did Flippa store our previous submitted records properly. If not, why the constant need for verification from time to time?

Furthermore, some of these verifications occur just when a transaction is done, after the customer requests for the release of funds.

All these only bring about unpleasant experiences for your customers. There seems to be no/little trust from the organisation, despite some of us completing many transactions prior.

Regarding a financial institution's AML KYC program, verifying the identity of customer usually is done when a new customer signs up, not after a transaction is completed, and especially not prior to release of funds. Existing verified customers usually do not need their identity verified again.

Also, a financial institution does not need to establish the accuracy of every element of CIP-identifying information that is obtained from the client. However, it must verify enough information to form a reasonable belief that it knows the true identity of the customer.

That is why many of us are puzzled why Flippa as an organisation require so many levels and layers of verification, from full name, email address, social media, mobile number, credit card charge, PayPal account, to image of photo ID, selfie holding photo ID, bank account details, and SMS 2FA. You mentioned this is an industrial standard which is highly regulated, yet it seems only Flippa and AirBnB are complying with them. Why other financial institutions like escrow.com, PayPal, and even other domain marketplaces like Sedo, GoDaddy, etc do not have such high standards in the same industries?

You added that Flippa and Flippa Escrow are separate entity. Yet Flippa Escrow has the power / authority to suspend / ban a user due to their own verification requirements. Flippa Escrow even quoted the Flippa Terms and Conditions 3.1.h that we users agree to provide Flippa with all identification documents which Flippa requests from us from time to time for the purposes of verifying our identity. Doesn't seems separate to many of us.

There are two methods of verification to gain reasonable belief that the financial institution knows the true identity of a customer: documentary and non-documentary method.

Identity Verification for Individuals (Documentary Method)

To verify the identity and nationality of an individual, the AML/onboarding staff should review any of the unexpired government-issued identification cards or reputable agency-issued (i.e., DMV and IRS) documentation below:
  • Driver’s license
  • State-issued ID
  • Passport
  • Consular identification cards
  • Foreign driver’s license
  • Original utility bill
  • Notarized bank statement
  • Tax bill
To verify the address of an individual, the staff should review any of the below ID cards, which should include the individual’s current place of residence:
  • Driver’s license
  • State-issued ID
  • Foreign driver’s license
Identity Verification for Individuals (Non-Documentary Method)

When conducting non-documentary verification, an AML staff member can:
  • Validate the customer’s information using risk intelligence databases or platforms like World Check and LexisNexis
  • Validate customer identity against fraud and bad check databases
  • Check references (i.e., other banks and credit card companies)
  • Contact the customer directly to conduct an inquiry and also validate a provided phone number
  • Validate the customer’s identity against credit or consumer reports
  • Request and review the customer’s financial statements

At no instance is a selfie holding a photo ID a recommended method as a means of identity verification for customers. Maybe this is the reason why other financial organisations like PayPal only require a photo ID and a matching utility bill to verify the identity, nationality and address of their customers. And I don't think other organisations will ban or suspend a user immediately when they require a verification.

If this is really the standard industry regulations, we should hear more similar unhappiness regarding usage of other marketplaces and or financial services, but in this forum, unhappiness arising from Flippa's verification seems to be recurring from time to time. It is also not surprising that some customers felt that Flippa is acting more stringent than a bank.

May I suggest that the verification processes of Flippa and Flippa Escrow be streamlined as one and to study how other marketplaces / escrow companies conduct their KYC.


Disclaimer: I'm not an expert in this field, but the above is my understanding after reading the 2 sources below as well as my verification experiences with PayPal and Flippa.


Sources:
http://www.advisoryhq.com/articles/cip-process-verify-customer-identity/
http://www.protiviti.com/en-US/Docu...-US-AML-Requirements-5thEdition-Protiviti.pdf (p71, 104, 107, 108)
 
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@Jen-Sin

Thanks for your response and feedback.

I can confirm that Flippa and Flippa Escrow conduct verification separately at the moment. We are working closely with PromisePay to improve the user experience around verification. That being said, photo verification is not common (less than 3% of transactions). It is normally triggered when there is discrepancy between information provided by the customer. In the vast majority of cases, we can verify a users identity automatically electronically.

Take the OP for example:
I have no private bank account, is shared with my family, so I can not compromise all that.

Gipson may have completely legitimate reasons for wanting his funds paid into a bank account shared with his family. However, this is likely to flag a potential verification problem.

Flippa and AirBnb are certainly not alone in having strict verification measures. Other payment companies including PayPal are subject to the same rules as PromisePay/Flippa Escrow. PayPal actually have similar policies as Flippa Escrow. See https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/confirm-your-identity
 
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Hi Joe, I was specifically referring to Flippa asking users to both submit their photo id via a scan (perfectly normal of course!) AND hold their photo id next to their faces. (Selfie with id)

AirBNB does not ask this of anyone. (Neither does Paypal)

Flippa is the only major company of nearly 100 I have checked that does this.
www DOT airbnb DOT com/help/article/450/what-is-verified-id

I'm close to creating a subReddit or article on Consumerist on this, just because I don't know of any other company that asks for such a thing.
For full disclosure I should mention I'm a privacy rights activist, so this issue is close to my heart.

Thanks for your time.
 
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