Ethics of staying quiet when newbies reg rubbish?

[DomainGist]

I dip in and out of this forum, leave for 9 months, back for 6 etc. Most recently quit domaining and had a change of heart and started to rebuild.

But every time I come back here I see a few newbies hand-registering absolutely turgid rubbish by the hundreds or even thousands.I won't name any names here as it would look like an attack.

I know that some people just won't listen, and I see a few people trying to get them to stop, but these people are undermined by people who 'like' their reg of the day.

Lets be clear here, I'm not talking about 'subjectivity' here, but I'm talking about people registering domains with 3 hypens, or 50 character nonsense domains.

So two questions:

1. Do we have moral obligation to be straight with these newbies and tell them that they are registering rubbish, even if this is a thankless task and the person refuses to listen and even doubles down on what they are doing.

2. Is it ethical for experienced domainers to 'like' posts which seem to validate the newbies selections.

I look at some of these people with thousands of completely unsellable hand regs, and on one hand I do think that they probably play their part in keeping registration and renewal prices down for every domainer as these nonsense domains are part of the ecosystem and generate cash for the registry and registrars, but on the other hand these domainers could be in debt, or blowing money from family savings without their wives knowing.

I find it very difficult to see people spending like $7000 on terrible handregs without saying something.

One particular individual got very angry with me and suggested that he isn't rich enough to get domains from closeout, but a domain from closeout costs what... $25 including one year renewal, and this individual has hundreds and hundreds of hand regs from all sorts of extentions. So if they took their time they could build a decent port of say 100 closeout domains over a period of 12-18 months, that would probably cost them less.

Why do people ignore these newbies and let them waste their money, and more importantly why do some people seem to encourage this really self-destructive and damaging behaviour by pressing 'like' on red-widget8383eu.biz or whatever nonsense they have registered?

Thoughts?

 

[Rob Monster]

Well considering your referring to poor domains Rob. You must have a hell of a lot of spare time to waste

Well, I am pretty busy but I help where I can, having confidence that these things come back, and that folks will pay it forward. It usually works out.

This video has now been watched more than 2 million times:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1081606748882175

This is one of my favorite panels:

Give it a try and see what comes back.

It helps to believe in an all-powerful God who is outside of space and time. In other words, "having a lot of spare time", implies that time is finite and scarce.

 

[Silentptnr]

I think it comes down to making the best possible choices.

Because so many domains are available for hand registration, every attempt should be made to invest in the best available domain. That can be somewhat subjective.

Most often it is a good idea to wait on registering any domain for a few days or even a week. Perhaps purposely look for other better domains. It's rewarding to realize you avoided an inferior domain upon reflection.

My feeling is, to each their own. I'm not here to judge other than to express hope for others to succeed. I give likes to tons of hand regges that I would not register. My "likes" are an expression of support to other domainers. My like won't make a bad domain good, or a good domain bad. So many good, even great domains, sit on the shelf waiting for a buyer often for decades....yes decades.

Look at the liquidation sites springing up. Look at the top domainers using the liquidation sites. They are liquidating bad investments. Happens to everyone.

When we look at the portfolios of big investors, we find many domains that are very low quality. When we look at the hand registrations of mythic domain investors, we find let's just say, not good regges.

Lastly, I don't classify members as newbies except that they might be new to this forum. I have no idea of a persons background, knowledge, life experience, culture or anything else. I don't assume a posture of superiority. I only share in the excitement of investing in domain names.

There is no one formula for success.

 

[DomainGist]

@BaileyUK

You liked and agreed with the original post so it is hard to see how there could be any mis-understanding. And now in your latest post you are calling me 'un-educated' and yet you know very little about me. Quite an assumption to make wouldn't you say. If you have far better things to do then maybe you should just go and do them and whilst you're at it add me to your 'Ignore' list and then you won't be troubled by my views any longer.

P.s. There is a hyphen in the word re-inventing. I got that through my education.

Goodbye Friend,

See you later. Take care.

Regards,

Reddstagg

Reddstagg, being a native English speaker you have a wonderful opportunity to replace the income you have lost from your employment and you can do that with hand regs if you aren't scared to put hard work into finding those domains, learning the techniques that you can use to find them.

I came back to domaining one month ago after a two year break, I've closed two sales for $1400 total already, my portfolio is only 47 domains. I did purchase about 10 of those from auctions, which you have said you can't afford to do, but most of the other 37 are hand regs.... including the 2 that I've sold, I'm currently above break even. Both were acquired because I'd already identified the buyer before registering, neither were registered by punching random words into a box and pressing search. They were acquired after hours and hours and hours of painstaking trawling through dropped domain lists.

There is no "long term strategy", there is no "waiting game", the domains you register won't sell. Its that simple.

The only problem is that you aren't prepared to listen and learn, only act defensive and double down on your failing technique. .

But I consider you beyond help to be honest, just because you won't accept this. Let your current domains expire and drop, and in the meantime try and devise a more sensible stategy which is centred around finding domains which you can sell and then actively selling them, not 'collecting' domains which is ridiculous.

I'll share a couple of sales soon, and its very easy to understand why I picked up those domains and why the obvious end user wanted them (or even NEEDED them).

 

[sircc]

If anyone wants to help newbies, point them to the search bar...

Seriously, this website holds everything anyone would ever want to know about the subject. It's a treasure trove of information, just help yourself.

Asking Colonel Sanders for his secret recipe is futile but if you search the internet, you'll get close.

 

[boker]

The flipside for the newer investors should be always to figure out who is giving advice,

I have said for well over a decade,

Tell me what you own, what you have sold and what you have developed?

Can't answer that for any reason, I just move right past all your words don't even see them it becomes like banner blindness.

This is true, but the main issue here is that most of the experienced sellers will not divulge their sales, so is hard to exactly know who is selling for what. Also, there are experienced sellers who have invested in diverse niches and will try to pump their niche, no matter if others will loose or not, so the advice something just to pump your domains, could be in bad faith. There are domainers who have overpaid for their domains and even if they have domains better than the average (as in only LLLL.com's,) they will loose money or they will be in the red for a long time, so they will not be the best advisors, even if they own some decent domains. Also, you have to keep in mind that even the best domainer will do some mistakes sometimes, so it will be hard to just listen blindly to others( I can give as example personal experience with a few pros from here saying about a domain that it's not worth even 1 cent, just to get more than 1 inquire for it and selling it for over 100 times more than my acquisition price). So, the general advice is good, that you need to listen to your 'oldies', but that doesn't mean that you need to do it blindly and that you don't need to try to experience yourself certain failures.

 

[bmugford]

There is a good way and a bad way to break bad news. Just telling someone that their names are crap is not a very professional way to do so without bothering to explain why. It is not our place to guide someone we know nothing about. We do not know their budgets, their resources, their markets, their experience or their motivation.

I agree there is a good and a bad way. With that said I would always take the brutal truth over sugar coated nonsense any day. It is more helpful long term.

Brad

 

[Rich]

You can't help anyone that doesn't want help, so I will usually only post if they're asking for a review/appraisal. I was a cook in the past and we had a saying, "don't serve anything you wouldn't eat yourself". For example in the handreg/purchase of the day forums I would only like a name that I would buy myself. I can see how the likes may be misleading, that's why you have to trust your source of approval. One of my favorite segments of the sherpa was portfolio review and perhaps namepros could benefit from having a have a similar section in appraisals. We should all just listen to Nick, he knows me make our own luck

 

[xynames]

Well the theory is that all domains were hand regs once so if I hold onto something long enough it will become valuable - but there were less domainers back then, fewer people on the internet in general, fewer search tools to find domains, and acquisition and maintenance costs were higher, which all translate to more garbage being picked up and retained today than years ago.

 

[bmugford]

Germany would disagree

I have sold plenty of hyphenated .COM for $X,XXX+. The key is it needs to be a popular term separated by one well placed hyphen. Some examples I have sold are ones like Cash-Back, Wedding-Dress, etc.

Brad

 

[biggie]

Perhaps Namepros could create a new tag for it's most valued knowledgeable members - something along the lines of an 'Honorary Professor',so that newer members know that they can instantly trust the advice and intentions of that member?

Hi

I feel where you're coming from,

but wouldn't want such a tag.
nor would I want someone to "instantly trust" any advice given.... just because I said it.

it also would put NP in the position of giving that tag and possibly being responsible for advice given by that individual.

as for me, I expect, hope and even anticipate, a rebuttal or a further question to explain a point, position or opinion expressed.
that's...conversation and engagement.

imo...

 

[BaileyUK]

That's an interesting read there Reddstagg about both your background and entry into domains.

The one thing I can't fathom at the moment though, Is having no doubt put a lot of thought into your 430 domain registrations todate. Why have you not taken the time to get them listed at a good reseller site. Part of the learning curve is indeed about what sells and the most appropriate prices to be asking. The feedback you get from No sales is almost as important as you get from a successful sale. You have to take that plunge in order to be able to dissect your own buying strategies. Sure you may fear selling yourself short, (or over pricing) but that again is all part of progressing.

I'm hazarding a guess that your yearly renewal costs will be in excess of $4,000 at the current holding. From early experience I can say there is nothing worse than being in the position of having to cull your portfolio without it ever seeing an opportunity to sell.

It is so easy to get caught up in buying domains and It's certainly one of the most self satisfying elements of domaining. The selling aspect unfortunately does seem like work, It requires concentration, investigation, negotiation and a lot of retrospective thinking - but what I can say is nothing beats those first couple of sales paydays

 

[TCK]

There are good handregs still available. There are also quality domains at low aftermarket prices.

The problem is that most domainers are impatient. They want to flip domains they register the next day for profit.

The successful domainers make good sales 3 to 5 or more years after registration or purchase.

If you register a domain that you don't see value in keeping for 5 years then you shouldn't register it in the first place.

This is what we should be teaching the yang wuns.

 

[equity78]

I have no problem with people being evangelist by nature. I do however object to it being supported and demonstrated by very rare examples as if as in someway supporting that bad decision making. Even when positivism is intended

This is not a church or classroom where you can nurture understanding or direction over time even years.(as in your example) This is a Business proposition we are talking about here, I think many times,(probably most) The Cold hard truth will always save both wasted money, time and frustration and possibly even far worse. Even when the truth hurts.

For me giving my reasons and justifications is far better for learning than blanket encouragement. Unfortunately many don't have the historic experience to share - And I understand that

Agree with what you are saying and I think one of the disconnects is why people are here?

I remember there was a post I got busy I did not reply but Keith was saying, something along the lines of we are here to do business this is what this is about.

And I agree with Keith it's why I am involved in domaining (never found it fun) but there are many here who this is their social network or they are a hobbyist. So they don't see the business proposition, they are not doing any or little business.

So shiny happy people

Will play much better than Coffee is for Closers

 

[JB Lions]

Well, I am pretty busy but I help where I can

This guy literally referenced you in the dash thread. This guy is wasting money buying dash domains. You make money when they waste money. org thread, dash thread. Not helpful. That ebook you just spammed again is not helping newbies. The time you took to make those 2 posts, you could have (for example) updated the tools page - https://domaingraduate.com/en/chapter-18-domaining-tools/

That's not helpful.

---------
I've tried to help this guy myself, his response was something about killing dreams. There are going to be people that make millions to people that do nothing but waste their money. Not everybody is going to get it, not everybody is supposed to get it. Usually buying bad domains is the education cost. Some people never graduate and flunk out.

 

[TheBaldOne]

"Ethics of staying quiet when newbies reg rubbish?"

The title of this thread assumes many things, firstly of course is that everyone understands and agrees the definition of the word 'ethics'. The term 'ethics' is usually described and defined as involving some form of 'morality', and that alone opens up a huge debate on what and whose morality is the base on which the then definition of 'ethics' is subsequently based on.

The title then goes on to an action, that of 'staying quiet'. Does this include not posting derogatory remarks about a persons vision of the domains they have registered?

Then the word 'newbie' is in the title. Can someone, including the author of the thread please give some kind of sensible definition of the word 'newbie'. The term 'newbie' would seem to be a time limited term, after all an established member can surely not be referred to as a 'newbie' can they? But then again what dictates the definition of an established member? Is a 'newbie' someone who has not registered a domain name yet or perhaps someone who has not been domaining for 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, or even a year? Or is it that the number of domains a domainer has registered that should be used as a yard stick to measure if someone is a 'newbie'?

Then of course we come to the great word 'rubbish'. I look around this world and I see many amazing things with strange names, a giraffe for example, why is it called a giraffe? Even if we think about language many things that we take for granted today was unintelligible in the past, some of them in the recent past. Look at the business names that succeed today and in the recent past, some of them are either totally unrelated to the business they represent or are meaningless in themselves as existing words. All of this should indicate that just to say something is 'rubbish' is as about as 'rubbish' as you could get.

Perhaps my age and mellowing temperament mean that now instead of insulting people or their thoughts I would try to engage them into why they registered a domain. When someone asks for help then if I think I can help with constructive advice I will normally give it.

There is one piece of advice I would give to anyone thinking of taking up domaining - make and follow a plan to read up on cognitive psychology of words, it is a fascinating subject and perhaps will help in understanding domaining and all its facets much better.

Oh, and before you think that is 'rubbish' - read the paragraph below:

"Aoccdrnig to rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoetnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be at the rghit pclae. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. "

https://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/people/matt.davis/cmabridge/

(Damn, I just couldn't resist replying. )

 

[Joe N]

Couldn't agree more. Other people seem to be more concerned by my lack of sales than I am. I went into this with a long term plan. I prepared for the first year of renewals and just dropped those domains that were part of the learning curve. Live and learn. Success can be measured in many different ways. I'm living in a Country where it was only possible to get broadband to the house a year ago so in some ways I am playing catch up and probably always will be. People seem to forget that this is only my second year. Name me one other business where there would be any return on investment in maybe the first five years. Zero to 400 in just one year. Part of learning is discovering when to hold them and when to fold them. I'm getting there. If I have ever needed any help I have been intelligent enough to know what to ask and from whom and I have then processed the information and made decisions.

This is a long game and I'm set to be here when many others may have quit.

You might be a bit too concerned by what people on this forum think about you. You don't need to justify your actions or plans to anyone.

So what if no-one gets you? These kinds of posts won't change that, and it shouldn't matter. Go do your thing and don't get involved in debates regarding your ideas.

 

[Joe N]

If people would worry less about my business model and leave me alone I will not need to keep on defending my actions.

But that's exactly what I mean...

People comment on your business model because you invite that by discussing it openly.

You do not need to defend your actions to anyone, but if you're going to engage in the discussions, be prepared for people to engage back.

 

[WatchDogue]

So two questions:

1. Do we have moral obligation to be straight with these newbies and tell them that they are registering rubbish, even if this is a thankless task and the person refuses to listen and even doubles down on what they are doing.

2. Is it ethical for experienced domainers to 'like' posts which seem to validate the newbies selections.

I find it very difficult to see people spending like $7000 on terrible handregs without saying something.

Why do people ignore these newbies and let them waste their money, and more importantly why do some people seem to encourage this really self-destructive and damaging behaviour by pressing 'like' on red-widget8383eu.biz or whatever nonsense they have registered?

Thoughts?

We, as a whole, have no moral responsibility to to tell newbies they are registering rubbish.

However I believe I DO personally have a moral responsibility to voice such an opinion if I am asked directly or see a sincere request for domain names opinions/comments posted by a newbie.

And I would never use the word " rubbish " instead would state a negative opinion of visibly poor domains in an initial kindler and gentle verbiage.

A would-be newbie domain buyer can read for free and forever how to buy domains and how to sell domains right here on NamePros.

If the newbie reads through NP and still buys less-than-desirable domains for thousands of dollars, so be it.

If the newbie never finds and reads through NP and just goes out and decides to buy thousands of dollars worth of less than desirable domain names, the newbie will quickly learn by the lack of inquiries, offers and sales that their portfolio is sub-standard.

And the person who has and will rapidly spend thousands of dollars on domain names of questionable quality would likely spend that same amount on some other " investment " opportunity in time, apparently destined to go " all in " to make it big.

The newbie who can and will spend thousands of dollars on questionable names is to me less of a concern than the newbie who is extremely concerned over their hundred or couple hundred dollar domain name investment and state that their investment is, in effect, substantive in their financial well being.

Domain names is a business and every newbie, well heeled or of marginal financial means, has a personal responsibility to learn about the business they have decided to invest their money in.

 

[NickB]

One more thing......

@Joe Nichols made a good point in another thread, when newbies post their fresh regs in the reg of the day thread they think they are getting positive justification from people on their domains. This makes it difficult to reason with them as they can say "look I have xxxx likes from xxx posts" I must be doing something right

(I fell into this trap when I started out as well, so coming from my own personal experience it is easy to be lulled into a false sense of security)

 

[NickB]

Agree with what you are saying and I think one of the disconnects is why people are here.

I remember there was a post I got busy I did not reply but Keith was saying, something along the lines of we are here to do business this is about this is about.

And I agree with Keith it's why I am involved in domaining (never found it fun) but there are many here who this is their social network or they are a hobbyist. So they don't see the business proposition, they are not doing any or little business.

So shiny happy people

Will play much better than Coffee is for Closers

Glengarry Glen Ross is a quality film...

 

[TheBaldOne]

I think I will get the popcorn out.

I used to be involved in this type of discussion a decade or so ago, now I am older and wiser and just sit back and enjoy the mostly pointless arguments for the s*****rs and laughs.

 

[bmugford]

I personally would spend less time justifying your reasoning and spend more time reading and less time regging....

This is not an insult or a put down, just some well intended advice.

I agree. At the end of the day money talks, bullshit walks.

If you are putting up consistent results, keep doing what you are doing.
If you are not putting up consistent results, consider changing something.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Well the theory is that all domains were hand regs once so if I hold onto something long enough it will become valuable - but there were less domainers back then, fewer people on the internet in general, fewer search tools to find domains, and acquisition and maintenance costs were higher, which all translate to more garbage being picked up and retained today than years ago.

Exactly. I have heard that line of reasoning before and it really makes no sense.

A hand registered domain when there were 100K registered .COM is likely going to be much higher quality than a hand registered domain with 140M taken.

AKA the 100,001 registered domain is likely to be a lot better than domain number 140,000,001.

With that said, there are plenty of very old domains that are still crap.

Brad

 

[karmaco]

Unasked for advice is a waste of time in many cases. Every year we see a fresh round of newbies who are too bullheaded to accept critiques from those with more experience . Many times those same people are bemoaning no sales after blank amount of time. If you aren’t in this to make money its a rather expensive hobby.

I think its best to just focus on your own portfolio and don’t worry yourself about other people’s garbage domains. If your competitors won’t take constructive criticism thats one less competitor a few years from now. This business is not for everyone and there is a revolving door repetition when people see they can’t get rich quick or don’t have the skills and cash flow needed.

 

[branding]

How come people are so overly obsessed about their STR? It continues to be mentioned in this thread as if the Holy Grail is to get a 2% STR but at the end of the day that doesn't mean anything.