debate Environmental Thread does anyone care that Amazon Rain Forest is burning down to the ground

[oldtimer]

This is a total catastrophe and failure for the World and humanity at large. There are some things that surpass national boundaries and borders like Human Rights and certain Environmental issues that affect the whole Globe which surely should be of concern to all of us. Whether it’s the Oceans and Rivers that have been polluted or whether it’s our air and soil that have been poisoned, it all has something to do with human activity like the Global Warming and the Melting of the Ice Caps and Glaciers which is going to put many coastal Cities and Communities under water soon. IMO

Everyone’s opinions are welcomed, but keep your comments constructive, professional, and on topic. Personal attacks and belittling of others are not tolerated.

 

[GILSAN]

Today is the " Climate Strike " day in which many school kids are rallying in support of creating more awareness around the World about the Environmental problems. I must say that I was amazed at seeing how knowledgeable and determined some of those kids were, I was especially impressed by seeing one sign that said " There is no planet B" .

All very nice but, I would be a lot more impressed if they all started boycotting all those big corporations and food chains that produce junk food, or that wrap their food in plastic. And I would be really impressed if they threw all their smart phones into a garbage container... for starters!

 

[NickB]

The younger generation are very much aware of the problem that has been created by their supposed betters and elders and are starting to fight back, will they have time to grow up and fix the issues? I doubt it......

Nice story from here in the UK the other day
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49738889

 

[GILSAN]

The younger generation are very much aware of the problem that has been created by their supposed betters and elders and are starting to fight back, will they have time to grow up and fix the issues? I doubt it......

Nice story from here in the UK the other day
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49738889

In the supermarket line, the cashier says to an elderly woman:

“You should bring your own shopping bags, since Plastic bags are not environmentally friendly.”

The old lady apologized and said:

“That´s true, there was no environmental worries in my time”.

The employee replied: "That is exactly our problem today, my lady." Your generation did not care enough about our environment.

"You're right," said the old lady. Our generation has not adequately cared for the environment. In those days, milk, soda and beer bottles were returned to the store. The store sent it back to the factory, where they were washed and sterilized before being re-used, and they, the beverage manufacturers, re-used the bottles several times over.

Yes, we really didn't care about the environment in our time. Even baby diapers were made of cloth, then washed because there were no disposable diapers. Drying was done by us on the open air, not on these electric drying machines. The sun and wind took care of drying our clothes.

Yes it is true: there was no concern for the environment in those days. At that time we had only one TV or radio at home, not one TV in each room. And the TV usually had a 14-inch screen, not a stadium-size screen; which will later be discarded, or maybe I’m wrong.

In the kitchen, we had to mix everything with our hands because there were no electric mixers, which do everything for us. When we sent something fragile in the mail, we used old newspaper for protection, not bubble wrap or plastic pellets that last five centuries to begin to degrade.

In those days no gasoline powered or electric machines were used to mow the lawn… instead, a lawnmower that required muscles was used. The exercise from mowing your lawn was extraordinary, and you didn't have to go to a gym and use treadmills that also run on electricity to get fit.

But you are right… there was no concern at the time about the environment. We drank water directly from the source when we were thirsty, instead of using plastic cups and plastic bottles that now fill the oceans.

In fact, we didn't have a green environmental wave at that time. At that time, people would take the tram or bus, and the kids would ride their bikes or walk to school instead of using their parents as a 24-hour taxi service.

So, it's not surprising that the current generation talks so much about "environment", but don't want to give up anything and don't think about living a little like in my time!

So when you say: "The younger generation are very much aware of the problem that has been created by their supposed betters and elders"

I say: That's a load of Bollocks... most (not all) only "Talk the Talk", but they don't "Walk the Walk"

 

[NickB]

In the supermarket line, the cashier says to an elderly woman:

“You should bring your own shopping bags, since Plastic bags are not environmentally friendly.”

The old lady apologized and said:

“That´s true, there was no environmental worries in my time”.

The employee replied: "That is exactly our problem today, my lady." Your generation did not care enough about our environment.

"You're right," said the old lady. Our generation has not adequately cared for the environment. In those days, milk, soda and beer bottles were returned to the store. The store sent it back to the factory, where they were washed and sterilized before being re-used, and they, the beverage manufacturers, re-used the bottles several times over.

Yes, we really didn't care about the environment in our time. Even baby diapers were made of cloth, then washed because there were no disposable diapers. Drying was done by us on the open air, not on these electric drying machines. The sun and wind took care of drying our clothes.

Yes it is true: there was no concern for the environment in those days. At that time we had only one TV or radio at home, not one TV in each room. And the TV usually had a 14-inch screen, not a stadium-size screen; which will later be discarded, or maybe I’m wrong.

In the kitchen, we had to mix everything with our hands because there were no electric mixers, which do everything for us. When we sent something fragile in the mail, we used old newspaper for protection, not bubble wrap or plastic pellets that last five centuries to begin to degrade.

In those days no gasoline powered or electric machines were used to mow the lawn… instead, a lawnmower that required muscles was used. The exercise from mowing your lawn was extraordinary, and you didn't have to go to a gym and use treadmills that also run on electricity to get fit.

But you are right… there was no concern at the time about the environment. We drank water directly from the source when we were thirsty, instead of using plastic cups and plastic bottles that now fill the oceans.

In fact, we didn't have a green environmental wave at that time. At that time, people would take the tram or bus, and the kids would ride their bikes or walk to school instead of using their parents as a 24-hour taxi service.

So, it's not surprising that the current generation talks so much about "environment", but don't want to give up anything and don't think about living a little like in my time!

So when you say: "The younger generation are very much aware of the problem that has been created by their supposed betters and elders"

I say: That's a load of Bollocks... most (not all) only "Talk the Talk", but they don't "Walk the Walk"

Interesting.......

Are you talking about the pre war generation? It looks like it to me......

Electric Dryers started to be mass produced from the 40's / 50's
Gas powered mowers mass produced from the 50's
CFC's producing fridges came out the 30's, massed produced from the 40's onwards
Plastic Bottles where invented in 1947, massed produced from the 50's onwards

etc etc etc

 

[GILSAN]

Interesting.......

Are you talking about the pre war generation? It looks like it to me......

Electric Dryers started to be mass produced from the 40's / 50's
Gas powered mowers mass produced from the 50's
CFC's producing fridges came out the 30's, massed produced from the 40's onwards
Plastic Bottles where invented in 1947, massed produced from the 50's onwards

etc etc etc

What pre war generation? Most of that is after the war in a handful of countries and well after the war in others. Wrapping fruit and vegetables individually, just to name a few is ridiculous . Thankfully in our supermarkets they don't do that and if they start doing it, I won't buy it!

 

[NickB]

What pre war generation? Most of that is after the war in some countries and well after the war in others. Wrapping fruit and vegetables individually, just to name a few is ridiculous . Thankfully in our supermarkets they don't do that and if they start doing it, I won't buy it!

From the dates I mentioned, I hoped you would get it was WW2 but never mind...

Wrapping fruit and veg? Urgh? Don't know where that came from.....but I agree there is no need for it whatsoever

The rest we can agree to disagree, save some time here i think.....

 

[GILSAN]

From the dates I mentioned, I hoped you would get it was WW2 but never mind...

Wrapping fruit and veg? Urgh? Don't know where that came from.....but I agree there is no need for it whatsoever

The rest we can agree to disagree, save some time here i think.....

Of course I got that it was WW2... I'm very well aware of the dates!

 

[GILSAN]

 

[oldtimer]

@GILSAN , Does this mean that reversing the Global Warming will take us back to the 1890 fashion.

I think we should all agree on the middle ground and roll the Climate back to 1960

a little humor to cool the air.

 

[GILSAN]

@GILSAN , Does this mean that reversing the Global Warming will take us back to the 1890 fashion.

I think we should all agree on the middle ground and pick the 1960 style.

a little humor to cool the air.

LOL... I hope not... imagine a man having to remove so much clothing just to get to the Bermuda Triangle!

 

[oldtimer]

@GILSAN , now back to the serious stuff, What are your predictions for the Environment 25 years into the future.

 

[GILSAN]

@GILSAN , now back to the serious stuff, What are your predictions for the Environment 25 years into the future.

Damn... that's a bloody tough question to ask me to predict the future at 4:45 in the morning! It looks to me that it's getting too political and just like in the present political climate, there is one side that believes it owns the truth and not very open to any sort of debate. The politics in the Environment debate are only gonna get worse to the point of zero tolerance.

Only by force can you order the big corporations to reduce drastically their constantly increasing use of plastic to wrap so much stuff in supermarkets and elsewhere. If very large quantities of people started boycotting products unnecessarily wrapped in plastic, maybe they'd start changing.

California banning straws is nice but my question is: What the hell do you need a straw for in the first place? Don't people know how to drink without a straw?

So... my prediction is as good as any...

 

[oldtimer]

Now 25 years is about one generation forward into the future, so that means that the school kids that we saw rallying today in support of the Environment are going to be in charge of the World by then. As smart as those kids are and as determined as they are to effect change in the grown ups' attitudes, but unfortunately they are still too young to be able to connect all the dots and see the big picture and as such need a helping hand if they are to be successful in bringing about any meaningful changes in the status quo.

In order to understand the manmade problems that we are currently facing with the Environment we have to go to the roots of the problem which goes beyond just politics which is also the same case for all the other problems that have gripped our World. Whether it’s poverty, inequality, hunger, disease, illiteracy, delinquency, addiction, abuse, or all the killings and torture that is tearing the fabrics of our society apart or whether it’s the political, religious, and racial animosities and hostilities that are fed by hate, greed, jealousy, cruelty, and our constant lust for power and dominance over others that is taking us yet towards another World War, it all has to do with human nature and what our existence is truly all about.

We like to think of ourselves as civilized people who have accomplished many great things, but a truly smart and independent Artificial Intelligence Entity (AI) that is a force for good might see us as vicious, hateful, lustful, greedy, and arrogant creatures who abuse and kill each other by the millions and who have brought their own home Planet to the verge of extinction through negligence and ignorance. We are so used to the way that we live our lives that we tend to ignore all the nastiness and destruction that has been taking place through out the history at our hands.

At this time the only way to fix the problems with the Environment or any of the other problems that are taking our World astray is to accept the fact that all our existing ideologies, philosophies, and doctrines have failed us, we need to abandon all the old labels such as leftist, right, progressive, conservative, liberal, capitalist, communist, fascist, or fundamentalist that are no longer adequate to meet the challenges that we are facing today and we have to unite under a new name that encompasses all the Universal ideals, values, and rights that we want to uphold in the third millennium.

At this time the only way that we can save ourselves and our planet is for the humanity as a whole to ascend to a higher level of thinking and existence that is based on logic and compassion and the Universal rights and values that we all believe in. If we continue on the same path and allow the many negative characteristics that are inherited in the human nature to control our lives then we will miss this last window of opportunity to save ourselves and our Planet.

The best way that the younger generations can save themselves and their home Planet is by making sure that humanity conquers all it’s bad characteristics that have been holding the World back all along and becomes a Force For Good in the long run. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

Now 25 years is about one generation forward into the future, so that means that the school kids that we saw rallying today in support of the Environment are going to be in charge of the World by then. As smart as those kids are and as determined as they are to effect change in the grown ups' attitudes, but unfortunately they are still too young to be able to connect all the dots and see the big picture and as such need a helping hand if they are to be successful in bringing about any meaningful changes in the status quo.

In order to understand the manmade problems that we are currently facing with the Environment we have to go to the roots of the problem which goes beyond just politics which is also the same case for all the other problems that have gripped our World. Whether it’s poverty, inequality, hunger, disease, illiteracy, delinquency, addiction, abuse, or all the killings and torture that is tearing the fabrics of our society apart or whether it’s the political, religious, and racial animosities and hostilities that are fed by hate, greed, jealousy, cruelty, and our constant lust for power and dominance over others that is taking us yet towards another World War, it all has to do with human nature and what our existence is truly all about.

We like to think of ourselves as civilized people who have accomplished many great things, but a truly smart and independent Artificial Intelligence Entity (AI) that is a force for good might see us as vicious, hateful, lustful, greedy, and arrogant creatures who abuse and kill each other by the millions and who have brought their own home Planet to the verge of extinction through negligence and ignorance. We are so used to the way that we live our lives that we tend to ignore all the nastiness and destruction that has been taking place through out the history at our hands.

At this time the only way to fix the problems with the Environment or any of the other problems that are taking our World astray is to accept the fact that all our existing ideologies, philosophies, and doctrines have failed us, we need to abandon all the old labels such as leftist, right, progressive, conservative, liberal, capitalist, communist, fascist, or fundamentalist that are no longer adequate to meet the challenges that we are facing today and we have to unite under a new name that encompasses all the Universal ideals, values, and rights that we want to uphold in the third millennium.

At this time the only way that we can save ourselves and our planet is for the humanity as a whole to ascend to a higher level of thinking and existence that is based on logic and compassion and the Universal rights and values that we all believe in. If we continue on the same path and allow the many negative characteristics that are inherited in the human nature to control our lives then we will miss this last window of opportunity to save ourselves and our Planet.

The best way that the younger generations can save themselves and their home Planet is by making sure that humanity conquers all it’s bad characteristics that have been holding the World back all along and becomes a Force For Good in the long run. IMO

You keep saying: We have to do this... we need to abandon that... We are this... we are that... Who exactly is we? Many of us have been doing our bit for a long, long time, even before some scientists started talking about global warming.

There are so many diverse cultures on Earth that it will be near impossible for everyone to act and behave the same. Some of the population are just talkers while others are doers, then there are those that don't give a damn. I really don't see how the world will become an utopia as you and many hope for.

As an example... look at how politics has become in recent years. Liberals and Conservatives used to be able to have a civilized discussion, despite their differences of opinion. Look at all the hatred nowadays. How are you gonna fix that?

 

[oldtimer]

You keep saying: We have to do this... we need to abandon that... We are this... we are that... Who exactly is we? Many of us have been doing our bit for a long, long time, even before some scientists started talking about global warming.

There are so many diverse cultures on Earth that it will be near impossible for everyone to act and behave the same. Some of the population are just talkers while others are doers, then there are those that don't give a damn. I really don't see how the world will become an utopia as you and many hope for.

As an example... look at how politics has become in recent years. Liberals and Conservatives used to be able to have a civilized discussion, despite their differences of opinion. Look at all the hatred nowadays. How are you gonna fix that?

We as in the school kids that we saw rallying yesterday, I know that there is not much hope with the older generations as they are entrenched in their wrong ways and seem not to be able to agree on anything constructive. As you said they can't even talk to each other in a civilized way like they used to.

 

[HotKey]

Interesting thread. Willing to keep an open mind, but my current stance on the environment is this:

Each one of us must do our part, when we can, in what ever way we can. It doesn't have to be heroic, it doesn't have to be something to shout about or brag about, just small things. The small make up up the parts of the larger. Teach your kids from when young. They will carry good habits they learn from us for the rest of their lives. It's cyclical. As they will teach theirs.

Don't rely on technology to make decisions for you, or tell you what to do. Use the brain you were born with. It is more than enough. Instead of relying on Alexa to start your fireplace, play your music or turn on your lights, do it yourself. Don't fall victim to the big technological lie. Feel your life. Touch your belongings, your friends, your family.

It's all a crock guys. The last 20 years. Feeding the smartphone machine, the so-called AI system. Smoke and mirrors, distracting us from bricks and mortar, crumbling away. Our basements, filled with junk, refilled every Christmas and birthdays. Climate change, as if our puny little lives matter so much in face of Mother Earth. Yes, the climate changes. It has for eons. Lets get over ourselves. Blame the cows for farting too much. While our countries spend millions, billions on bad deals, throwing away our health care and schooling, they distract us with technology and a fight against the inevitable- Mother Earth is PMS'ing, and there is no tampon for that.

Don't you guys remember the 90's, when Big Tech and our companies such as cable, hydro, government agencies promised us that Big Tech would make everything cheaper, things would be tickety boo? Well, I hate to break it to ya, but our reliance on Big Tech has made everything worse, not better. In every single way. We no longer get paper bills, yet our billing has skyrocketed. Mail doesn't get delivered to our homes, yet we pay more taxes. Communications is done via email or Internet, yet we pay exorbitant fees for the landlines and satellites required to communicate. Technology is smaller, cheaper, but now the prices are offset by "environmental fees". Banks tellers becoming obsolete, in favour of online banking. Yet banks are profiting in the billions, and charging us more and more. I could go on and on.

The common denominator in all this? Nope, not climate change. Did I mention, yes the climate changes? The common denominator is population growth. This should actually be a good thing. Means more hands on deck. But, we can't use our hands when we're too busy swiping, can we?

**

 

[oldtimer]

Interesting thread. Willing to keep an open mind, but my current stance on the environment is this:

Each one of us must do our part, when we can, in what ever way we can. It doesn't have to be heroic, it doesn't have to be something to shout about or brag about, just small things. The small make up up the parts of the larger. Teach your kids from when young. They will carry good habits they learn from us for the rest of their lives. It's cyclical. As they will teach theirs.

Don't rely on technology to make decisions for you, or tell you what to do. Use the brain you were born with. It is more than enough. Instead of relying on Alexa to start your fireplace, play your music or turn on your lights, do it yourself. Don't fall victim to the big technological lie. Feel your life. Touch your belongings, your friends, your family.

It's all a crock guys. The last 20 years. Feeding the smartphone machine, the so-called AI system. Smoke and mirrors, distracting us from bricks and mortar, crumbling away. Our basements, filled with junk, refilled every Christmas and birthdays. Climate change, as if our puny little lives matter so much in face of Mother Earth. Yes, the climate changes. It has for eons. Lets get over ourselves. Blame the cows for farting too much. While our countries spend millions, billions on bad deals, throwing away our health care and schooling, they distract us with technology and a fight against the inevitable- Mother Earth is PMS'ing, and there is no tampon for that.

Don't you guys remember the 90's, when Big Tech and our companies such as cable, hydro, government agencies promised us that Big Tech would make everything cheaper, things would be tickety boo? Well, I hate to break it to ya, but our reliance on Big Tech has made everything worse, not better. In every single way. We no longer get paper bills, yet our billing has skyrocketed. Mail doesn't get delivered to our homes, yet we pay more taxes. Communications is done via email or Internet, yet we pay exorbitant fees for the landlines and satellites required to communicate. Technology is smaller, cheaper, but now the prices are offset by "environmental fees". Banks tellers becoming obsolete, in favour of online banking. Yet banks are profiting in the billions, and charging us more and more. I could go on and on.

The common denominator in all this? Nope, not climate change. Did I mention, yes the climate changes? The common denominator is population growth. This should actually be a good thing. Means more hands on deck. But, we can't use our hands when we're too busy swiping, can we?

**

You are right about Technology, it can be a double edged sword, it can do us all in or it can help us to overcome all the social and environmental problems that we are facing. It's up to us to advance the good and control the bad so that the end result will be positive. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

We as in the school kids that we saw rallying yesterday,

The main reasons the school kids participated in these rallies were:
1) They got a day off from school.
2) It was their teachers, parents and others that organized these rallies.

How many kids do you think would have participated if the rallies had been on the weekend instead of Thursday?

I know that there is not much hope with the older generations as they are entrenched in their wrong ways and seem not to be able to agree on anything constructive. As you said they can't even talk to each other in a civilized way like they used to.

"Not much hope with the older generations?" You must be kidding surely? Who invented all the stuff you use today to be able to sit in front of your laptop or smart phone and be able to exchange ideas about the environment with people from different parts of the world, in real time?

I'm glad to see you are very optimistic about today's young generation. Personally I don't feel the same way about them... quite the contrary, but I pray that you are right and I am wrong.
We shall see... Actions speak louder than words

 

[oldtimer]

"Not much hope with the older generations?" You must be kidding surely? Who invented all the stuff you use today to be able to sit in front of your laptop or smart phone and be able to exchange ideas about the environment with people from different parts of the world, in real time?

I was talking in terms of political divisions that have paralyzed those at the top, you yourself said that they can't even talk to each other in a civilized manner like they used to.

 

[GILSAN]

I was talking in terms of political divisions that have paralyzed those at the top, you yourself said that they can't even talk to each other in a civilzed manner like they used to.

Oh, OK...I thought you were talking about the kids. The main reason that in politics, they are at loggerheads with each other is because Liberals are hell bent on silencing the voices and opinions of conservatives.
Examples: the MSM, Hollywood, Schools, Universities and Social Media