debate Environmental Thread does anyone care that Amazon Rain Forest is burning down to the ground

[oldtimer]

This is a total catastrophe and failure for the World and humanity at large. There are some things that surpass national boundaries and borders like Human Rights and certain Environmental issues that affect the whole Globe which surely should be of concern to all of us. Whether it’s the Oceans and Rivers that have been polluted or whether it’s our air and soil that have been poisoned, it all has something to do with human activity like the Global Warming and the Melting of the Ice Caps and Glaciers which is going to put many coastal Cities and Communities under water soon. IMO

Everyone’s opinions are welcomed, but keep your comments constructive, professional, and on topic. Personal attacks and belittling of others are not tolerated.

 

[oldtimer]

This country isn't just carbon neutral — it's carbon negative | Tshering Tobgay
Deep in the Himalayas, on the border between China and India, lies the Kingdom of Bhutan, which has pledged to remain carbon neutral for all time. In this illuminating talk, Bhutan's Prime Minister Tshering Tobgay shares his country's mission to put happiness before economic growth and set a world standard for environmental preservation.

As we see the ice caps and glaciers start receding on the surface gradually the more alarming effect is going to be what we can’t see as far as the fact that the ice is losing its structure from deep within which is going to cause the melting to accelerate once it goes beyond a certain point, so we might have even less time than we originally thought before the low lying coastal areas and islands around the World start going under water because of the rising oceans. The forced migrations that are going to take place due to the loss of so much habitat will certainly have an adverse effect on the global economy and can cause animosities and conflicts all around the World. So even those who are trying their best to be green will be indirectly affected due to all the social and economical stresses that are going to be caused by global warming. When it comes to the environment there has to be a united effort on behalf of all the countries small and large to make the whole World carbon neutral (or better yet carbon negative) otherwise if the larger countries continue to pollute all the efforts by the smaller countries who are doing their best to be green is going to go to waste. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

One of my favorite Canadians...
Professor Jordan Peterson on climate change and climate policy at the Cambridge Union

 

[GILSAN]

'Never mind the heat, climate change is hoax by gravy-train scientists'

 

[oldtimer]

'Never mind the heat, climate change is hoax by gravy-train scientists'

Even if we gave those scientists the benefit of the doubt and assumed that there was a 20% chance that Global Warming was a hoax, that would still leave an 80% chance that Global Warming is real.

Now the question is should people bet their life and the life of every living thing on this Planet on the 20% chance that Global Warming is a hoax or the 80% chance that the Global Warming is real.

 

[GILSAN]

Even if we gave those scientists the benefit of the doubt and assumed that there was a 20% chance that Global Warming was a hoax, that would still leave an 80% chance that Global Warming is real.

Now the question is should people bet their life and the life of every living thing on this Planet on the 20% chance that Global Warming is a hoax or the 80% chance that the Global Warming is real.

Like I said before, most of the western world is doing it's fair share to make the world a better place. Now it's up to the African and Asian continent to do theirs. How long that will take is dependent on various factors, especially the cultural factor, but I have a feeling it's gonna be a long, long time!

 

[oldtimer]

but I have a feeling it's gonna be a long, long time!

I estimate that this Planet will be past the point of no return in about couple of decades (if not sooner) so East, West, or anywhere else has to put their efforts into high gear before we run out of time. So far it seems like the World is going in the wrong direction as hostilities rise and push the Environment to the background. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

This building in smoggy Beijing looks like a scene from Blade Runner...

Same building, after a very windy day cleaned up the atmosphere...

 

[oldtimer]

This building in smoggy Beijing looks like a scene from Blade Runner...

Same building, after a very windy day cleaned up the atmosphere...

A good representation of what ignorance and greed can do.

It baffles the mind as to how the World has been allowed to get to this point in the first place. But in the interest of fairness we should expose all Environmental shortcomings and faults from all around the World the same without bias or prejudice. Focusing only on countries that might be considered to be one's Economical, Political, or Racial competitors or adversaries will only give the impression that there is a hidden agenda involved that is going beyond the Environmental issues. When it comes to the Environment we have to treat everyone the same and expose their faults regardless as to whether they are considered to be one's adversary or ally. IMO

 

[oldtimer]

In addition to the worsening Smog and reduced air and water quality around the World we should also be deeply concerned about the Storms and Hurricanes that seem to be getting stronger by the season causing more and more destruction with no end in sight. One solution is to move everyone out of the known vulnerable areas, but that might not be very practical at the present time considering the scope and scale of the situation, although it's something that we eventually have to do for low lying areas that might go under water. The other alternative is to rethink the way homes and other buildings are made or rebuilt in this areas. We might as well build these homes to be strong enough as if they are in a nuclear strike zone, it might be expensive, but when you consider the cost of rebuilding over and over after each storm it might actually save us money in the long run. Every time I see people boarding up their windows with plywood before a storm it makes me wonder when are they going to come up with a more permanent solution. Now obviously those people can't afford to turn their home into a bunker by themselves so that's why we need a Global initiative to start a reconstruction program to try to solve this problem once and for all. The same can apply to other places that are at high risk due to natural disasters such as Earthquakes or Tornados. Correcting all these problems by creating such massive reconstruction program will also definitely help the economy and will keep people busy for many years to come. A lot of this would have been easier if they had been planned correctly to begin with in the past, but we can't blame the previous generations too much as they didn't know better back then and so they failed to predict the problems that we are facing right now as they built and expanded their habitats. Now we can at least learn a lesson from all this by considering what problems we can prevent for the future generations by planning things correctly now that we are at the beginning of certain advancements and expansions such as Space Exploration, Genetics, or Artificial Intelligence and Automation just to name a few. IMO

PS: Rebuild the homes only if they can withstand category 6 Hurricanes (category 7 might not be out of the question either in a few decades if Global Warming is not brought under control now).

 

[oldtimer]

UN Climate Action Summit:

September, 23 , 2019

(Some programs start ot the 21th)

https://www.un.org/en/climatechange/index.shtml

 

[GILSAN]

^^^^ That's great, we don't need more dumb people in this world, we have too many of those already...

These have a more radical and violent solution...

 

[oldtimer]

^^^^ That's great, we don't need more dumb people in this world, we have too many of those already...

These have a more radical and violent solution...

The UN Climate Summit Youth Program is on Saturday September 21, 2019

Getting the younger generations involved in the Climate Change and Environmental debates in a Positive way is a good thing, after all they are the ones who have to live on this Planet in the future. (The older generations seem to be just too caught up in politics and their own agendas). IMO

 

[GILSAN]

The UN Climate Summit Youth Program is on Saturday September 21, 2019

Getting the younger generations involved in the Climate Change and Environmental debates in a Positive way is a good thing, after all they are the ones who have to live on this Planet in the future. (The older generations seem to be just too caught up in politics and their own agendas). IMO

By NOT having children? That's the height of stupidity!

I'm part of the older generation and I know that I pollute considerably less than the vast majority of the younger generation... and I've been doing it since I was young, long before we even heard the term "Global Warming"

 

[oldtimer]

By NOT having children? That's the height of stupidity!

I'm part of the older generation and I know that I pollute considerably less than the vast majority of the younger generation... and I've been doing it since I was young, long before we even heard the term "Global Warming"

I said:

"Getting the younger generations involved in the Climate Change and Environmental debates in a Positive way is a good thing"

I don't condone every way that is promoted by some such as by not having any children at all as they say.

 

[GILSAN]

Revealed: 90 Percent of Plastic Waste Comes from Asia and Africa
A groundbreaking study conducted by a team of researchers at Germany’s Helmholtz Centre for Environmental Research poured over data on debris from 79 sampling sites along 57 rivers and found that just a handful of rivers in a couple of countries account for an overwhelming majority of the pollutants piling up in our oceans.

“The 10 top-ranked rivers transport 88-95 percent of the global load into the sea,” Dr. Christian Schmidt, a hydrogeologist who headed up the study, told the Daily Mail after the research was published in 2017. “The rivers with the highest estimated plastic loads are characterized by high population – for instance the Yangtze with over half a billion people.”

The study, published in the journal Environmental Science & Technology, said that by cutting plastic pollution in the Yangtze River — the third-longest in the world and located in China — and the Ganges River, located in India, ocean pollution could be reduced by half.

Of the top ten rivers that produce the most pollution, eight of them are in Asian and two, the Nile River and the Niger River, are in Africa.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...-of-plastic-waste-comes-from-asia-and-africa/

 

[oldtimer]

Revealed: 90 Percent of Plastic Waste Comes from Asia and Africa
A groundbreaking study conducted by a team of researchers at Germany’s Helmholtz Centre for Environmental Research poured over data on debris from 79 sampling sites along 57 rivers and found that just a handful of rivers in a couple of countries account for an overwhelming majority of the pollutants piling up in our oceans.

“The 10 top-ranked rivers transport 88-95 percent of the global load into the sea,” Dr. Christian Schmidt, a hydrogeologist who headed up the study, told the Daily Mail after the research was published in 2017. “The rivers with the highest estimated plastic loads are characterized by high population – for instance the Yangtze with over half a billion people.”

The study, published in the journal Environmental Science & Technology, said that by cutting plastic pollution in the Yangtze River — the third-longest in the world and located in China — and the Ganges River, located in India, ocean pollution could be reduced by half.

Of the top ten rivers that produce the most pollution, eight of them are in Asian and two, the Nile River and the Niger River, are in Africa.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...-of-plastic-waste-comes-from-asia-and-africa/

Perhaps the study's results are true as there are less waste management facilities and methods in the places that you have mentioned, but we should also not forget about all the landfills that are getting out of control in the other continents. This is a global problem, All continents (East and West and everywhere else) are contributing to pollution one way or another. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

Perhaps the study's results are true as there are less waste management facilities and methods in the places that you have mentioned, but we should also not forget about all the landfills that are getting out of control in the other continents. This is a global problem, All continents (East and West and everywhere else) are contributing to pollution one way or another. IMO

Landfills? Why not send the selected waste into incineration plants and produce energy! Just like we do in the little Island of Madeira where I live. Ours produces some energy and fertilizer.

By law we have to sort out our garbage into 4 categories:
1. Paper and cardboard
2. Plastic & Metal
3. Bottles or glass
4. Others like food, fruit vegetables etc. (only this category of waste goes to our incinerator)

Each household must have 4 separate collection bins for the above categories. If someone tries to cheat and is caught, a heavy fine is applied.

Not the perfect solution, but, better than landfills IMO.

Over here, used batteries have to be left in bins, which are conveniently found in all supermarkets.

Same thing with used cooking oils, that have to be put into oil collection bins at all supermarkets.

Used cars, fridges, motor bikes, computers, washing machines and broken down electric appliances etc. must be left at a government depot for the same reasons. Again, very heavy fines or possible prison for any asshole that's caught polluting the countryside.

In the last 4-5 years, plastic bags have a fairly high cost in supermarkets and other places. They used to be free. They have been replaced by recyclable material bags. Next year, all plastic bags will be banned from supermarkets, for starters.

Since this year anyone caught throwing cigarette buts on our sidewalks or streets will get a heavy fine. There are dozens of other measures that have been taken.

So as you can see, we are pretty conscious about it while doing and continue to do lots to reduce our carbon footprint.

It's the Middle East, parts of Central and South America, but especially Asia and Africa that have to get their act together!

So when hypocritical, radical activists (not you) start preaching to me while contributing 100 times more than me to polluting the world, I can only tell them to go to hell.

This video shows how Sweden does it as well...

 

[oldtimer]

Landfills? Why not send the selected waste into incineration plants and produce energy!

I am glad to hear that you are doing your part in reducing pollution, as you said your Island is more environmentally conscious than other places, but landfills are a big problem for the rest of the World, even first World countries that we think are leading the environmental movement are sending their trash by ship or trainload to other places just to get rid of it.

It's good to know that you do your part in your personal life to help protect the environment and I appreciate all the opinions and info that you are providing for this thread, but that said I believe that we need to address these issues beyond just Africa and Asia that seem to be the focus of your criticism. I believe that some of the Western countries are also contributing greatly to global pollution problems, now they might not dump their trash directly into the oceans, but the fact that people are consuming more and more and are not willing to change their lifestyles can have as bad of an effect as what is going on in Africa and Asia and so in the interest of being fair and balanced the problems in the West needs to be addressed too with equal concern. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

I am glad to hear that you are doing your part in reducing pollution, as you said your Island is more environmentally conscious than other places, but landfills are a big problem for the rest of the World, even first World countries that we think are leading the environmental movement are sending their trash by ship or trainload to other places just to get rid of it.

It's good to know that you do your part in your personal life to help protect the environment and I appreciate all the opinions and info that you are providing for this thread, but that said I believe that we need to address these issues beyond just Africa and Asia that seem to be the focus of your criticism. I believe that some of the Western countries are also contributing greatly to global pollution problems, now they might not dump their trash directly into the oceans, but the fact that people are consuming more and more and are not willing to change their lifestyles can have as bad of an effect as what is going on in Africa and Asia and so in the interest of being fair and balanced the problems in the West needs to be addressed too with equal concern. IMO

I focus and am highly critical of the amount of pollution being created by Asia and Africa, because everyone else is totally ignoring it. I have no idea why, except to think that it's Politically Incorrect to do so.

Let's grab the bull by the horns and tell it how it is, instead of ignoring the elephants in the room.

Why is the US one of the countries with the highest obesity rate in the world? They eat too much unhealthy junk food, that's why. It's up to Americans to change their habits... but how?

If Americans (and not only) didn't eat so much junk food, then Indonesia wouldn't need to burn down their forests to plant Palm Oil plantations.

Palm oil is found in a huge number of products lining the shelves of grocery stores and widely used in food processing.

It is found in many supermarket products including bread, pastries, cereal, peanut butter, chocolate and margarine. It is also used in personal products like shampoo, cosmetics, cleaning products and biodiesel.

And much of the global supply comes from Indonesia, the largest palm oil producer in the world.

The country supplied 56% of the world’s palm oil last year.

As China’s population increases it's consumerism, so too have imports of palm oil from Indonesia spiked in recent years.

The global demand for palm oil is driving the fires in Indonesia
https://qz.com/1711172/the-global-demand-for-palm-oil-is-driving-the-fires-in-indonesia/

 

[oldtimer]

Today is the " Climate Strike " day in which many school kids are rallying in support of creating more awareness around the World about the Environmental problems. I must say that I was amazed at seeing how knowledgeable and determined some of those kids were, I was especially impressed by seeing one sign that said " There is no planet B" .