debate Environmental Thread does anyone care that Amazon Rain Forest is burning down to the ground

[oldtimer]

This is a total catastrophe and failure for the World and humanity at large. There are some things that surpass national boundaries and borders like Human Rights and certain Environmental issues that affect the whole Globe which surely should be of concern to all of us. Whether it’s the Oceans and Rivers that have been polluted or whether it’s our air and soil that have been poisoned, it all has something to do with human activity like the Global Warming and the Melting of the Ice Caps and Glaciers which is going to put many coastal Cities and Communities under water soon. IMO

Everyone’s opinions are welcomed, but keep your comments constructive, professional, and on topic. Personal attacks and belittling of others are not tolerated.

 

[GILSAN]

Boy that little girl really put everyone to shame with her speech today at the UN Climate Action Summit.

She didn't put me to shame because my carbon footprint is way lower than hers. Also that angry young girl is being propped to win the Nobel Peace prize and later on to win an Oscar.

 

[Messiah]

How dare you destroy the planet with all this plastic?

Climate predictions made by scientists that never came true.

 

[oldtimer]

She didn't put me to shame because my carbon footprint is way lower than hers. Also that angry young girl is being propped to win the Nobel Peace prize and later on to win an Oscar.

Didn't she start a movement on her own before the grown ups noticed her and pounced on her. I still have respect for the part that was her own initiative. She did seem to be a little too dramatic in her speech at the UN Climate Summit, but then what else to do when the grown ups don't listen, at least this way the World can't forget what she said so easily when the Summit is over. I think that the kids need to follow up with their movement to keep the grown ups on their toes and force them to take the right actions, all the money and wealth that those people are accumulating for themselves is not going to do them any good when things get so bad that they won't be able to find any healthy food to eat due to all the contaminations or take a breath of fresh air due to all the pollution.


Kids here is an idea for you:

Put an environmental tax on all the millionaires so that they have to pay a dollar for every time that they inhale and use the oxygen in the air that mother nature has provided and charge them another dollar for every time that they exhale and add more carbon dioxide to the air.

PS: Make that ten dollars for the billionaires.

 

[GILSAN]

How dare you destroy the planet with all this plastic?
Show attachment 129874

OMG Greta...

 

[GILSAN]

The importance of a tree...

 

[GILSAN]

 

[oldtimer]

I was wondering how long the Elites of the World can insulate themselves from the adverse effects of the Climate Change and keep on ignoring all the signs that are pointing towards a major Global catastrophe in the near future. Having wealth and power has its advantages in making life better and more comfortable for a privileged few and so far has helped shield them from all the hardship and pain of being faced with natural disasters or man made hostilities and war, but there will come a point that no amount of wealth and power can help protect the Elites as this Planet starts going beyond the point of no return.

No amount of money is going to help the Elites buy their way out of what awaits the World in the near future if nothing is changed now, as the matter of fact all the property, gold, jewels, works of art, and stocks that they hold dear to their hearts are going to become worthless as all social and environmental norms start to collapse around them and anarchy and lawlessness takes over the World. IMO

PS: I don't have anything against those who use their power and wealth to serve and protect the Humanity and the Environment, just don't think that it is very smart to put power and wealth above the welfare and health of this planet as once the Environment is damaged beyond the point of no return no amount of wealth or power can do anyone any good anymore. Meanwhile I believe that there should be a limit to how much power or wealth one person can have and how much resources can be used by anyone even if everything was fine with the Environment, because too much power and wealth by one person or group corrupts the society and causes damage to our Planet. If all the man made and natural resources that are available to us are managed properly there wouldn't be any reason for so many people around the World to be deprived of the necessities of life and to be subjected to so much pain and suffering. It's not only the Environment that needs our attention, but we have to rethink and redesign our whole existence as there are so many other things that can make Humanity go extinct other than just the Climate Change.

 

[oldtimer]

Promises and commitments made at the UN Climate Summit:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/09/1047112

I see some improvements in people's attitude, but protecting the Environment and undoing the damage that human activity has caused can not be achieved by incremental commitments and sporadic actions, we need to take some precise and concrete actions starting today, we can't wait till the last minute to take the Climate Change seriously, we don't have much time left as we are rapidly approaching the point of no return, a point in time that might not be very obvious to us till much later, in another words we might not even know that we have past the point of no return while we are busy just talking and making promises about the Environment.

Incremental and sporadic Action is not enough we need to make a revolution in our thinking and attitude not only towards the Environment, but also towards our society and our whole existence. Poverty, inequality, disease, addiction, delinquency, abuse, hostilities and War are among a few other things that can also do us in, maybe not immediately, but they certainly are chipping away at our civilization. We need to start seeing the big picture which the Climate Change and the Environmental problems are a part of. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

Promises and commitments made at the UN Climate Summit:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2019/09/1047112

I see some improvement in people's attitude, but protecting the Environment and undoing the damage that human activity has caused can not be achieved by incremental commitments and sporadic actions, we need to take some precise and concrete actions starting today, we can't wait till the last minute to take the Climate Change seriously, we don't have much time left as we are rapidly approaching the point of no return, a point in time that might not be very obvious to us till much later, in another words we might not even know that we have past the point of no return while we are busy just talking and making promises about the Environment.

Incremental Action is not enough we need to make a revolution in our thinking and attitude not only towards the Environment, but also towards our society and our whole existence. Poverty, inequality, disease, addiction, delinquency, abuse, hostilities and War are among a few other things that can also do us in, maybe not immediately, but they certainly are chipping away at our civilization. IMO

You sound like so many politicians at times...

-we need to take actions starting today...
-we can't wait till the last minute...
-we don't have much time left...
-we are busy just talking and making promises...
-we need to make a revolution...

Tell me, what actions have you already taken to make the environment better for everyone?

 

[Mister Funsky]

The future is bleak.

Humans in 1st, 2nd and 3rd world countries will never see eye to eye on anything like emissions, ocean harvesting, etc. much less 'saving' the environment.

Future wars will be over 'pollution' and fresh water sources...of course food riots/wars will come as well. There is only one way to put the brakes on it today...humans have to stop breeding/multiplying. I know we are animals but I have hope that the majority realizes what they are doing by bringing more that 2 children to the planet and then holds back on having offspring...lets just enjoy practicing to make children rather than seeing how many we can have.

It truly makes me sad to think what is ahead...that is why I have not brought children into this mess. I made that decision when I was a young man and it has left a void in my life but just thinking about my nieces/nephews and their coming offspring puts me into a funk. Things will plod along for one, maybe two more generations before things get dire (quicker if we have a global war or a couple of big regional wars).

The only thing that gives me any consolation is that the earth will take care of herself eventually. Even if nuke or bio weapons are used, in 2-3000 years the planet should recover.

 

[oldtimer]

You sound like so many politicians at times...

-we need to take actions starting today...
-we can't wait till the last minute...
-we don't have much time left...
-we are busy just talking and making promises...
-we need to make a revolution...

Tell me, what actions have you already taken to make the environment better for everyone?

@GILSAN , and you are beginning to sound more and more like those pundits that have a political agenda.

We are not talking about me or any other individual person here, we are taking about Humanity as a whole.

 

[oldtimer]

The future is bleak.

Humans in 1st, 2nd and 3rd world countries will never see eye to eye on anything like emissions, ocean harvesting, etc. much less 'saving' the environment.

Future wars will be over 'pollution' and fresh water sources...of course food riots/wars will come as well. There is only one way to put the brakes on it today...humans have to stop breeding/multiplying. I know we are animals but I have hope that the majority realizes what they are doing by bringing more that 2 children to the planet and then holds back on having offspring...lets just enjoy practicing to make children rather than seeing how many we can have.

It truly makes me sad to think what is ahead...that is why I have not brought children into this mess. I made that decision when I was a young man and it has left a void in my life but just thinking about my nieces/nephews and their coming offspring puts me into a funk. Things will plod along for one, maybe two more generations before things get dire (quicker if we have a global war or a couple of big regional wars).

The only thing that gives me any consolation is that the earth will take care of herself eventually. Even if nuke or bio weapons are used, in 2-3000 years the planet should recover.

Don't give up hope yet, there is still a window of opportunity left for us to be able to save Humanity and the Environment, although this window is closing fast if we keep ignoring all the serious problems that we and this planet are facing. So the most important thing we all can do at the moment is to make everyone aware that there is not much time left before we reach the point of no return. (fortunately we haven't reached that point yet, at least not that I know).

There is still HOPE.

 

[Cal2]

So the most important thing we all can do at the moment is to make everyone aware that there is not much time left before we reach the point of no return.

Another thing to add to 'most important thing we all can do at the moment' is to come up with, and get behind, serious environmental solution options that could be 'no brainers' to adopt - including 'no brainers' to adopt from a $ making/$ saving stand point - while having potential to make a real environmental difference.
Eg. - this recent one seems to be heading in that direction: https://newatlas.com/environment/algae-fueled-bioreactor-carbon-sequestration/

I like their thought of "It says later this year it will make the designs for the bioreactor publicly available in the hope that it will inspire others to come up with similar solutions.".

Then there's 3D ocean farms as another example, that I'd mentioned to you on another thread. If the food source/fuel source/environmental cleaning specs are anywhere close to what they claim for such farming, another potential radical environmental game changer solution: "Smith’s website claims that 3D ocean farms totaling an area half the size of Maine would provide enough biofuel to replace all of the oil used in the U.S. Additionally, 3D ocean farms totaling an area the size of Washington State would be able to feed the world."

https://www.greenwave.org/our-work

 

[Cal2]

….

 

[oldtimer]

Another thing to add to 'most important thing we all can do at the moment' is to come up with, and get behind, serious environmental solution options that could be 'no brainers' to adopt - including 'no brainers' to adopt from a $ making/$ saving stand point - while having potential to make a real environmental difference.
Eg. - this recent one seems to be heading in that direction: https://newatlas.com/environment/algae-fueled-bioreactor-carbon-sequestration/

I like their thought of "It says later this year it will make the designs for the bioreactor publicly available in the hope that it will inspire others to come up with similar solutions.".

Then there's 3D ocean farms as another example, that I'd mentioned to you on another thread. If the food source/fuel source/environmental cleaning specs are anywhere close to what they claim for such farming, another potential radical environmental game changer solution: "Smith’s website claims that 3D ocean farms totaling an area half the size of Maine would provide enough biofuel to replace all of the oil used in the U.S. Additionally, 3D ocean farms totaling an area the size of Washington State would be able to feed the world."

https://www.greenwave.org/our-work

You bring up some very good ideas. We have to have a multitrack approach to the climate Change and the Environmental issues. But while we have all these delegates from all these different Countries at the Climate Summit it's very important to make sure that they understand that it's not going to be business as usual after the Summit is over and they return back to their big Villas and Mansions.

The reason that I empathize so much on their big Villas and Mansions is because that that kind of lifestyle along with owning multiple luxury cars and yachts uses more resources that any one person should be allowed to use.

 

[J Sokol]

There is only one way to put the brakes on it today...humans have to stop breeding/multiplying. I know we are animals but I have hope that the majority realizes what they are doing by bringing more that 2 children to the planet and then holds back on having offspring

This seems like one of the most obvious things we can do to curb climate change, yet in all the talk about the subject I rarely hear this mentioned.
Every time I see a baby or a pregnant woman, I feel sorry for them and fearful about their future.

 

[GILSAN]

There is only one way to put the brakes on it today...humans have to stop breeding/multiplying. I know we are animals but I have hope that the majority realizes what they are doing by bringing more that 2 children to the planet and then holds back on having offspring...lets just enjoy practicing to make children rather than seeing how many we can have.

It truly makes me sad to think what is ahead...that is why I have not brought children into this mess. I made that decision when I was a young man and it has left a void in my life but just thinking about my nieces/nephews and their coming offspring puts me into a funk. Things will plod along for one, maybe two more generations before things get dire (quicker if we have a global war or a couple of big regional wars).

The only thing that gives me any consolation is that the earth will take care of herself eventually. Even if nuke or bio weapons are used, in 2-3000 years the planet should recover.

Europe, North and South America, many parts of Asia have very low birth rates (average of about 1.5-1.6 children per woman) It's in Africa with over 5 and in parts of Asia and the Middle East with numbers of about 4 children per women, that the population has been exploding for quite some time now, without much prospect of slowing down at a rapid pace.

Those are the problem areas, not only because of population growth, but also pollution growth, which no one else talks about in this thread!

 

[Cal2]

You bring up some very good ideas. We have to have a multitrack approach to the climate Change and the Environmental issues. But while we have all these delegates from all these different Countries at the Climate Summit it's very important to make sure that they understand that it's not going to be business as usual after the Summit is over and they return to their big Villas and Mansions.

The reason that I empathize so much on their big Villas and Mansions is because that that kind of lifestyle along with owning multiple luxury cars and yachts uses more resources that any one person should be allowed to use.

Agree on the multi-tracking - as long as some of those tracks don't use up resources that could deliver better results by using them elsewhere.

On the villas, mansions - until we're able to break people of that 'bad habit':

I don't think people who live in such things care too much what we think - there's enough of them in their social groups that like to impress each other (and impress most others) with their cars, houses, yachts. So how does one 'design ways forward while leaving the problem in place'. One way you could try to influence them is through their ego - eg. sell them on the idea that what they have is passe.

One example of what could be sold as 'next generation' mansions are Tesla's mansions:
https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/25/...y-houses-electrical-grid-battery-installation

Add Tesla's tech to things like mansion construction 3D printing - https://www.digitalengineering247.com/article/winsun-pushes-the-frontier-of-3d-printed-housing ; throw in some carbon sequestering/power creating bio-reactors I mentioned in my last post; add in some more tech like energy creating heating/cooling redox systems, which give off oxygen and hydrogen by-products, that can be used as a power source; and you might end up with mansions that can give back more than they take out of the environment.

https://newatlas.com/energy-on-dema...ail&utm_term=0_65b67362bd-b852d88d4e-90628689

 

[JB Lions]

How dare you destroy the planet with all this plastic?

Show attachment 129874

Climate predictions made by scientists that never came true.

Show attachment 129875 Show attachment 129876

That list is nonsense, not sure if you knew that? I picked a couple at random below. It's just a list some anti-science climate change deniers like to pass around, since they know most people are lazy/gullible, won't actually check.

The random 2 I picked:
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/nations-vanish-global-warming/

https://skepticalscience.com/Hansen-West-Side-Highway.htm

@GILSAN , and you are beginning to sound more and more like those pundits that have a political agenda.

We are not talking about me or any other individual person here, we are taking about Humanity as a whole.

From the other thread, just a denier. Not sure if you noticed but everytime you point something out, he'll divert and say so and so isn't doing anything, therefore? Always check any memes, graphics he posts, they're usually false.

And stuff like the lists above, always check who's behind them. Usually funded by fossil fuel companies. Basically any PragerU videos. It's like getting your facts about cigarettes from scientists bought and paid for by tobacco companies, remember those hearings?

 

[Cal2]

For what it's worth, Elon Musk and Jack Ma think there'll be a population collapse:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/30/elo...oblem-world-will-face-is-population-drop.html

Some think we shouldn't listen to Musk and Ma: https://www.science20.com/robert_wa...ears_elon_musk_and_jack_ma_are_not_population

The death rate in some countries has come to exceed the birth rate. How much further that might go.....

 

[handpicked]

Few small steps I have taken towards this mission:

(a) Got certified for Environmental Management System (EMS) as Internal Auditor. By Bureau Veritas International - Successfully completed the course and passed ISO 14001 internal Auditor exam in 2016. This has helped me to to become the official internal auditor for ISO-14000 in an industry in addition to my existing job. I was able to implement segregation of toxic waste like printer cartridges etc., and establish separate disposal system for non bio-degradable / hazardous waste and also set tree sapling planting targets for various departmental staff resulting in over 500 saplings planted in last 2-3 years across the periphery compound walls of the industry.

(b) Photographed more that 650 dried-up or broken trees in an locality about 10 Sq. Km over the period of 2 years and frequently shared with local authorities to get it removed (for fall safety / prevent fire etc.,) and to replaced it with new saplings. I spend almost the whole of Sunday sometimes with my daughter in these activities.

(c) Scout to the local villages and tomato farms and educate the farmers on the need to use natural manures and enlighten them about the dangers of using excessive pesticides. Me and my daughter drive down to villages near by and do this sometimes. These activities helped her to gain knowledge about environment and also helped her to win the inter-college quiz trophy on environment conducted by district pollution control board last week. Yes, we are a small / 1 child family.

(d) Had two sparrow nests set up outside wall of the kitchen exhaust where generations of sparrows hatch and take off. We used to enjoy the sounds of newly hatched chicks. Now unfortunately, due to the presence of mobile phone towers they are not coming may be due to the irritating waves for them but bunch of parrots are frequenting the nearby trees. And we have named one of tree which the parrots like the most as 'Happy Tree'.

 

[oldtimer]

The death rate in some countries has come to exceed the birth rate. How much further that might go.....

Its hard to believe that with all the resources, experts, and technology that is at our disposal (specially AI and super computer models) we still can't come up with a plan to manage this little Planet of ours so that there wouldn't be so much damage, destruction, and pain and suffering going on.

 

[JB Lions]

Its hard to believe that with all the resources, experts, and technology that is at our disposal (specially AI and super computer models) we still can't come up with a plan to manage this little Planet of ours so that there wouldn't be so much damage, destruction, and pain and suffering going on.

People don't like to bring politics into this but there just isn't a way around it. Just from the American side, under Trump. We have a President that:

said climate change is a Chinese hoax

points to snow as evidence the climate change isn't real

talked about raking the forest when we had fires

said windmills give us cancer

etc. I mean, it's just stupid stuff.

Again, he's paid off by fossil fuel companies. You just can't get anything positive done under him and most Republicans. They bow down to those companies.

How about those recent meetings? The most recent one he stayed like 10/15 minutes, then dipped out. The big one before, he didn't even show up. Said he had meetings but.............the 2 other people that were in the meeting with him showed up. He doesn't care.

Think all the decisions on the environment under Trump. I can't think of anything positive, it's all backwards. Alaska mining, go ahead. New pipeline, go ahead. Restrictions, loosen those things up. Pulling out of Paris climate accord. Rolling back Obama era environmental regulations. California tries to tighten things up, our President fights against that.

Trump to Revoke California’s Authority to Set Stricter Auto Emissions Rules
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-rules/ar-AAHrjFQ?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

Nothing but backwards under him.

So much damage "environment under Trump"

https://www.google.com/search?clien...hUKEwimk6Gsy-3kAhWFdt8KHXuNDZ4Q4dUDCAo&uact=5

 

[oldtimer]

People don't like to bring politics into this but there just isn't a way around it. Just from the American side, under Trump. We have a President that:

said climate change is a Chinese hoax

points to snow as evidence the climate change isn't real

talked about raking the forest when we had fires

said windmills give us cancer

etc. I mean, it's just stupid stuff.

Again, he's paid off by fossil fuel companies. You just can't get anything positive done under him and most Republicans. They bow down to those companies.

How about those recent meetings? The most recent one he stayed like 10/15 minutes, then dipped out. The big one before, he didn't even show up. Said he had meetings but.............the 2 other people that were in the meeting with him showed up. He doesn't care.

Think all the decisions on the environment under Trump. I can't think of anything positive, it's all backwards. Alaska mining, go ahead. New pipeline, go ahead. Restrictions, loosen those things up. Pulling out of Paris climate accord. Rolling back Obama era environmental regulations. California tries to tighten things up, our President fights against that.

Trump to Revoke California’s Authority to Set Stricter Auto Emissions Rules
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...-rules/ar-AAHrjFQ?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout

Nothing but backwards under him.

So much damage "environment under Trump"

https://www.google.com/search?clien...hUKEwimk6Gsy-3kAhWFdt8KHXuNDZ4Q4dUDCAo&uact=5

For a minute lets imagine that we had two Planet Erarths, we give one to the Right to manage as they see fit and we give the other one to the Left and let them run it the way they think is best. The post that you just made gives us a good idea as to how the Right Earth is going to end up, so my question to you is to describe how the Left Earth is going to be considering that the Left that is managing it can do whatever they want to do without being held back or blocked by the Right anymore.

Is there still going to be inequality on the Left Earth, is everyone going to be living a simpler life with a smaller carbon foot print or are there still going to be some rich people who are going to indulge themselves in the luxuries and excesses of life by owning huge mansions, private jets and yachts, and multiple luxury cars. How much each person is going to be allowed to consume every year beyond the minimum necessities of life. And to expand this beyond the Environment how is the Left Earth going to look like when it comes to social issues such as having a minimum standard of living that includes having adequate and timely shelter, healthcare, education, and food as a basic human right.

I really am interested to know how the Left Earth is going to look like and be managed in case I want to move there.

 

[JB Lions]

For a minute lets imagine that we had two Planet Erarths, we give one to the Right to manage as they see fit and we give the other one to the Left and let them run it the way they think is best. The post that you just made gives us a good idea as to how the Right Earth is going to end up, so my question to you is to describe how the Left Earth is going to be considering that the Left that is managing it can do whatever they want to do without being held back or blocked by the Right anymore.

Is there still going to be inequality on the Left Earth, is everyone going to be living a simpler life with a smaller carbon foot print or are there still going to be some rich people who are going to indulge themselves in the luxuries and excesses of life by owning huge mansions, private jets and yachts, and multiple luxury cars. How much each person is going to be allowed to consume every year beyond the minimum necessities of life. And to expand this beyond the Environment how is the Left Earth going to look like when it comes to social issues such as having a minimum standard of living that includes having adequate and timely shelter, healthcare, education, and food as a basic human right.

I really am interested to know how the Left Earth is going to look like and managed in case I want to move there.

I can tell you it wouldn't have people like this:

Old Man Yells at Windmills

President Trump renewed his attacks on wind energy and vowed to cure cancer during a rally in Ohio
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-windmills-cancer-cure-yelling-866587/


Donald Trump's ridiculous link between cancer, wind turbines
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...icans-dismiss-trumps-windmill-and-cancer-cla/

President Trump Says Wind Turbines Cause Cancer. 99% of Iowans Disagree
https://time.com/5649313/trump-wind-cancer-iowa/

Fact Check: No Link Between Wind Farms and Cancer Like Trump Claimed
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ct-check-trump-is-tilting-at-wind-farms-again

----------
So if we have any more wildfires, we only have 1 person to blame. Trump. Because Trump knows the solution and he could fund the raking of forests

He's trying