debate Environmental Thread does anyone care that Amazon Rain Forest is burning down to the ground

[oldtimer]

This is a total catastrophe and failure for the World and humanity at large. There are some things that surpass national boundaries and borders like Human Rights and certain Environmental issues that affect the whole Globe which surely should be of concern to all of us. Whether it’s the Oceans and Rivers that have been polluted or whether it’s our air and soil that have been poisoned, it all has something to do with human activity like the Global Warming and the Melting of the Ice Caps and Glaciers which is going to put many coastal Cities and Communities under water soon. IMO

Everyone’s opinions are welcomed, but keep your comments constructive, professional, and on topic. Personal attacks and belittling of others are not tolerated.

 

[manpreet]

Thanks for sharing such insights, was unaware these types of threads existed st NamePros. Environmental issues are very important in the world we are living in today.

 

[offthehandle]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...on-contaminated-fukushima-water-idUSKCN1VP0LK

https://qz.com/india/1114843/chinas...000km-tunnel-to-divert-water-away-from-tibet/

 

[oldtimer]

Africa is by far the continent with the highest growth rate in population and has been like that for a long, long time!

Is pollution more correlated with population growth or Industrial development, does population growth automatically mean more cars, planes, and factories in underdeveloped areas. A large group of people who live a simple life with a small carbon footprint will have less impact on the environment than a small group of people who indulge themselves in excesses that produce a large carbon footprint. So I am not sure if population growth on its own can be the primary factor in global warming and climate change. I assume that areas with big population and large carbon footprint such as China and India are contributing more to pollution than Africa. IMO

 

[offthehandle]

 

[J Sokol]

A large group of people who live a simple life with a small carbon footprint will have less impact on the environment than a small group of people who indulge themselves in excesses that produce a large carbon footprint. So I am not sure if population growth on its own can be the primary factor in global warming and climate change. I assume that areas with big population and large carbon footprint such as China and India are contributing more to pollution than Africa. IMO

It's true that people in third-world countries leave a smaller carbon footprint. But the problem in Africa, for example, is that the population growth creates a greater demand for food and water. With the climate warming, even these basic needs will become harder and harder to meet.

 

[offthehandle]

 

[offthehandle]

https://www.livescience.com/39461-sequoias-redwood-trees.html

http://www.oldest.org/nature/redwood-trees-us/ ( the Robert E Lee tree will be renamed soon, once some silicon valley chumps discover it)

California has some 2000 year old trees, and bristlecones up to 5000 years old. I wonder if the French have any tree that old?

EU Trees only 100 years old. Hmmm.

 

[GILSAN]

A large group of people who live a simple life with a small carbon footprint will have less impact on the environment than a small group of people who indulge themselves in excesses that produce a large carbon footprint. So I am not sure if population growth on its own can be the primary factor in global warming and climate change. I assume that areas with big population and large carbon footprint such as China and India are contributing more to pollution than Africa. IMO

Their carbon footprint isn't as small as you might think. Don't forget that a high % of rural Africans have moved into the big cities, which have become among the most polluted in the world.

Almost half the African population does not have basic sanitation, resulting in contaminated and extremely polluted water streams and rivers which help transmit diseases like diarrhea, cholera, dysentery and typhoid.

Sub-Saharan Africans also have a tendency to litter a lot, resulting in garbage accumulating in the streets that attract rats, flies, mosquitoes etc. which is such a danger to public health.

South Africa...

Poverty in Africa can be the result of political instability and ethnic conflicts, but mostly thanks to the massive corruption by it's ruling class who really don't give a crap about about the population.

Yes indeed China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia are still the biggest polluters, but at the rate their population is increasing, Africa will catch up in a decade or so.

India...

China...

 

[GILSAN]

California has some 2000 year old trees, and bristlecones up to 5000 years old. I wonder if the French have any tree that old?

EU Trees only 100 years old. Hmmm.

Olive trees can grow to up to 2000 years. Still a number of those in Italy and Crete.

This one is considered the oldest at about 3250 years old!
https://fincahermosa.com/hermosa/en/oldest-olive-trees-the-world/

 

[offthehandle]

Olive trees can grow to up to 2000 years. Still a number of those in Italy and Crete.

This one is considered the oldest at about 3250 years old!
https://fincahermosa.com/hermosa/en/oldest-olive-trees-the-world/

Wow 3250 years and still living. I have never seen that one, amazing. We had one in our yard, it was 45 years old then my father got tired of it and cut it up.

Yep, riding the trains you see several million Olive trees on the Peninsula, for hours once you leave Madrid south, east or west in Andalucia it seems. I was looking and really never have been able to find any data on deforestation in the EU, like you know if you drive out of London few huge groves of trees as I recall. Ireland you look at photos and none also. No idea if they were ever really heavy forested, do you?

 

[oldtimer]

Their carbon footprint isn't as small as you might think. Don't forget that a high % of rural Africans have moved into the big cities, which have become among the most polluted in the world.

Almost half the African population does not have basic sanitation, resulting in contaminated and extremely polluted water streams and rivers which help transmit diseases like diarrhea, cholera, dysentery and typhoid.

Sub-Saharan Africans also have a tendency to litter a lot, resulting in garbage accumulating in the streets that attract rats, flies, mosquitoes etc. which is such a danger to public health.

South Africa...

Poverty in Africa can be the result of political instability and ethnic conflicts, but mostly thanks to the massive corruption by it's ruling class who really don't give a crap about about the population.

Yes indeed China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Indonesia are still the biggest polluters, but at the rate their population is increasing, Africa will catch up in a decade or so.

India...

China...

I agree that Africa (and the rest of the World for that matter) has a long way to go to become fully environmentally conscious and friendly to the point that not only that the environment is not being damaged any more, but to actually see some of the existing damage being reversed and corrected. And I agree that the ruling class has an essential role to play in leading the population towards becoming more green, but do you see any improvement in Africa compared to the past, it looks like a few African countries have been taking the initiative to becoming more modern and democratic and as such do you see any hopes for the situation in Africa to get better.

As bad as some of the other polluters are around the World such as China, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia that you had mentioned, which ones do you see getting better as far as having some plans to fix their pollution problems, and which ones do you think are getting worst by ignoring the situation.

 

[GILSAN]

I was looking and really never have been able to find any data on deforestation in the EU..... No idea if they were ever really heavy forested, do you?

Europe used to be heavily forested a few thousand years ago, but as the population grew and the need for agricultural land increased, the forests diminished.

In the past 100 years however, forest land has actually increased in Europe and today about 40% of the land is forested.

 

[GILSAN]

I agree that Africa (and the rest of the World for that matter) has a long way to go to become fully environmentally conscious and friendly to the point that not only that the environment is not being damaged any more, but to actually see some of the existing damage being reversed and corrected. And I agree that the ruling class has an essential role to play in leading the population towards becoming more green, but do you see any improvement in Africa compared to the past, it looks like a few African countries have been taking the initiative to becoming more modern and democratic and as such do you see any hopes for the situation in Africa to get better.

In some countries, democracy has sort of improved, while in others it deteriorated or gotten worse.

The Youtube Video "Hope in a Changing Climate - by John D. Liu (2009)" I posted in the previous page shows countries like Ethiopia and Rwanda have started a reforestation and water conservation plan that has had excellent results, especially in Ethiopia.

In the near future I don't see too many positives coming out of Africa. It all depends on the masses changing their habits and especially the ruling class starting to pay more attention to their people instead of themselves.

The west has poured over 50 TRILLION $ in the last 40-50 years into Africa and what are the results? The ruling class got stinking rich while the vast majority is still filthy poor.

NGO's with good intentions come to African villages, build boreholes and pumps for the locals, only to return a few years latter and find no boreholes or pumps. Someone had stolen them to sell to scrapyards.

As bad as some of the other polluters are around the World such as China, India, Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia that you had mentioned, which ones do you see getting better as far as having some plans to fix their pollution problems, and which ones do you think are getting worst by ignoring the situation.

China seems to be taking the initiative to clean up, but it's a massive undertaking. Lets wait and see. When the masses start protesting for cleaner air and water, maybe the governments will start to do something.

 

[GILSAN]

 

[oldtimer]

As important as it is to find a balance between a healthy Environment and a healthy Economy at the present time it might be worth mentioning that if the World can survive through the next few decades it will be much easier to find this balance in the future as I strongly believe that with the advent of Artificial Intelligence (one with general intelligence that is a force for good) the economy in the future will no longer depend on the number of jobs as I believe that the majority of people will no longer have to work in the future as AI will tend to all our needs, not as our slaves, but more like as our caretakers.

Right now we are going through the most critical time in the history of the World and I believe that if we can manage to find a way out of our current societal and environmental problems things will get much easier and better in the near future. Although this requires for the whole World to reform its ways of thinking and attitude in a way that allows humanity to ascend to a higher level of existence and overcome its bad characteristics that have brought the World on the verge of collapse both as far as the society and environment are concerned.

As with any of the other important issues that we have to deal with, tackling the problems with the environment requires for us to try to end all the political, religious, and racial divisions and animosities that have been wasting our time and energy and that have been distracting us from seeing the right path by putting everyone against one another.

As I make this post on the anniversary of the tragedy of the 911 , I urge everyone to try to find a common cause in saving the World from all that’s evil by following common sense that is based on logic, compassion, and the Universal rights and values that we all believe in. Hostilities, conflicts, and War will only distract us from paying attention to the Environment and could make us lose this last window of opportunity to be able save this Planet. IMO

PS: I have been expressing my thoughts and views on different issues here at NamePros that are excerpts from what I plan to write in my own book in the near future about the right path for humanity to get to salvation.

 

[GILSAN]

As I make this post on the anniversary of the tragedy of the 911 , I urge everyone to try to find a common cause in saving the World from all that’s evil by following common sense that is based on logic, compassion, and the Universal rights and values that we all believe in. Hostilities, conflicts, and War will only distract us from paying attention to the Environment and could make us lose this last window of opportunity to be able save this Planet. IMO

PS: I have been expressing my thoughts and views on different issues here at NamePros that are excerpts from what I plan to write in my own book in the near future about the right path for humanity to get to salvation.

Common Sense... that's the keyword that unfortunately is disappearing at an alarming rate and it's such an easy thing to practice!

Oh BTW.... best of luck with your book. Hope it has lots of easy to understand common sense stuff in it!

 

[oldtimer]

Oh BTW.... best of luck with your book. Hope it has lots of easy to understand common sense stuff in it!

Thanks, I didn't invent common sense, but I am going to use it to the best of my ability to create awareness about the problems that the humanity and the environment are facing. I just hope that the whole World won't get mad at me for using true common sense the way a good AI might use common sense in the future.

Unfortunately right now most people have blinders on due to their political, religious, and racial affiliations and loyalties that makes them look at common sense only as what servers their interests and agendas. If we are to be a force for good it requires that we base our common sense on logic and compassion and the Universal rights and values that we all believe in. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

Unfortunately right now most people have blinders on due to their political, religious, and racial affiliations and loyalties that makes them look at common sense only as what servers their interests and agendas.

And those blinders will continue for a long time, as long as some try to impose their values on others.

1/3 of the worlds population eats with chopsticks, 1/3 with their hands and the rest with fork and knife. Who is is doing it the right way? Or are they all right?

 

[oldtimer]

And those blinders will continue for a long time, as long as some try to impose their values on others.

1/3 of the worlds population eats with chopsticks, 1/3 with their hands and the rest with fork and knife. Who is is doing it the right way? Or are they all right?

Having diverse cultures is a good thing, and people with different customs and traditions should be respected as long as their ways are compatible with the Universal rights and values that are derived from logic and compassion and that are accepted by the majority of people around the World.

I am sure that there are some Universally accepted norms and etiquettes that are used at the dinner table at International conferences in the United Nations, people from around the World might have to make certain compromises and sacrifices in their local customs and traditions in order to be able to attend, that is not one person or group forcing their ways on another, but more like people coming to a consensus as to what is the right behavior and as long as that consensus is based on common sense that is derived from logic and compassion then everyone should be required to respect it and to abide by it. IMO

 

[GILSAN]

This country isn't just carbon neutral — it's carbon negative | Tshering Tobgay
Deep in the Himalayas, on the border between China and India, lies the Kingdom of Bhutan, which has pledged to remain carbon neutral for all time. In this illuminating talk, Bhutan's Prime Minister Tshering Tobgay shares his country's mission to put happiness before economic growth and set a world standard for environmental preservation.