question "End User" Perceptions

[ThatNameGuy]

BrandPro - invalid - NamePro??? What name resonates most with end users? "Brand", "Domain" or "Name"? I know from my experience many business people don't really know what a domain is, however they know what a brand, and a name are.

I believe this is why most domains, 98 of 100 are hoarded and stay on the shelf. Any way you cut it, that's deplorable

Regardless of the definition of "Brand", and the belief an "end user" relates to it more than "Domain", don't you think a marketplace for domain names would best be identified using the term "Brand" like; BrandableBrands.com

Any other thoughts, views or opinions? Thanks

 

[Joe N]

Joe....obviously we're headed in two different directions. I feel like the pioneer who just know's there's gold in them there hills The thing I do know is the opportunity exists to increase domain sales via targeted "outbound" strategies. Verisign told us last year it exists, and that's all the confirmation I need to keep moving toward the goal

Rich, I feel like you're brushing me off after I took the time to provide detailed answers to all your questions. I was hoping for a give and take here...

I get the big picture of what you're saying. I like it. I'm on board. I would love to increase the public's general awareness and acceptance of domain name value if it means we all get to sell more! That would be amazing. So how do we do it? Let's talk details. What's your plan?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Verisign told us last year it exists, and that's all the confirmation I need to keep moving toward the goal

Could you please quote the part that of the blog post you are referring to? To me it said that the aftermarket added nothing essentially and they were promoting the idea that end users should be registering direct. I don''t see that they were any fonder of outbound to inbound. But maybe I overlooked something so just asking if you could please post the segment where you think they said that. Thanks.
Bob

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Rich, I feel like you're brushing me off after I took the time to provide detailed answers to all your questions. I was hoping for a give and take here...

I get the big picture of what you're saying. I like it. I'm on board. I would love to increase the public's general awareness and acceptance of domain name value if it means we all get to sell more! That would be amazing. So how do we do it? Let's talk details. What's your plan?

No Joe...you said; "Anyway, I'm starting to move away from the outbound model" You really needn't waste anymore time with me....you do your thing Joe and I'll do mine....Have a nice life!

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I find it real strange the likes of Sedo, Uniregistry, Afternic, Flippa, SquadHelp....the biggest "hoarders"

With the exception of Uniregistry's own holdings (a portion of their marketplace) and recently SquadHelp beginning to hold a few domains, those sites do not hold domains by rather facilitate sales by others. They are certainly supporting a domain aftermarket, but not directly (with exceptions I noted) participating in it. I believe to say they are hoarding would be to say that eBay, Shopify etc. are hoarding products, which is of course untrue. They are marketplaces to sell domain names.

As ICA and others have pointed out, holding domain names is no different than holding real estate, commodities, etc. and is a totally lawful activity. By using language Verisign did in the blog post, in places, and others repeating it, does not change that fact. In essence investing in domain names is completely similar to investing in many other speculative assets.

Are those who finance startups, realizing that many will fail but a few will succeed markedly, hoarding startup companies through private financing? What about someone who invests in art that at this moment most others do not see worth in? Are they hoarding art? Should they not be rewarded when a small portion of that art finds commercial viability? I would argue that in both of those cases, and indeed in a host of others, those who invest early in speculative assets do a service to the community. I wrote about these and many other reasons why a healthy domain aftermarket serves a purpose in this long blog post about a year ago. The fact that sell-through rates are low (or business success rates low for startups) simply tells us that significant risk is involved.

I do not disagree at all with the premise that you have raised that a better sell through rate would benefit both end users and domainers (and indeed the registries indirectly). I would politely and respectfully, however, urge you to concentrate on proposing specific ways to do that, rather than misquoting and calling names, which is neither positive nor helpful.

Thank you,

Bob

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Could you please quote the part that of the blog post you are referring to? To me it said that the aftermarket added nothing essentially and they were promoting the idea that end users should be registering direct. I don''t see that they were any fonder of outbound to inbound. But maybe I overlooked something so just asking if you could please post the segment where you think they said that. Thanks.
Bob

Bob...i read "opportunity" into this. Sorry if you don't.

https://blog.verisign.com/domain-na...om-price-caps-were-passed-along-to-consumers/

 

[Bob Hawkes]

don't come out and defend themselves

Did you possibly miss seeing this superb argument from @Zak Muscovitch, legal representative for ICA. I think he does a superb job and would ask you to please give the article a read, even though it is long.

For reference, this site will show you the membership of ICA - many of the businesses you note are members.

Did you miss attending the panel session on the proposed .com increases and related issues around the Verisign contract at NamesCon? Many points were well expressed in that session. I do realize it was unfortunately scheduled in parallel with a very popular other session and many did not attend.

I think that there was indeed, on multiple fronts, a logical and sound counter-argument to the Verisign bog post made (including several threads here on NamePros). The fact that they never followed up with the promised second posting, and that responsibility for the blog changed shortly thereafter, is I believe partly due to the fact that they recognized that the post had gone too far.

Bob

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Bob...i read "opportunity" into this. Sorry if you don't.

https://blog.verisign.com/domain-na...om-price-caps-were-passed-along-to-consumers/

Could you please quote the specific part to support your statement that they said what was needed was more effective outbound, as I requested. Thank you.

This is how I responded to the Verisign post. It is long, but the sections on speculative investment and the role of the domain aftermarket are particularly relevant.

I spent quite a while on the Verisign post, and just not sure where you see it says that better outbound by domain investors is the solution. But maybe I missed it so ask you to quote where it is and I will reread it with an open mind.

Bob

 

[Joe N]

No Joe...you said; "Anyway, I'm starting to move away from the outbound model" You really needn't waste anymore time with me....you do your thing Joe and I'll do mine....Have a nice life!

Rich, these exchanges are far from a waste of time. They benefit all members whether they're actively engaged in outbound marketing or not; but the benefit only arises from constructive discussions and clear explanations of ideas and experiences.

I do still conduct outbound marketing at times, and I enjoy discussing its merits. There are a host of challenges that come with doing it well (many of which I myself have yet to learn), and newer members who are considering using outbound strategies can benefit from these kinds of details.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

i read "opportunity" into this.

I read opportunity in many things . I have agreed, repeatedly, that there are new ways that someone should try in selling domain names. As in business, many won't work out, but I bet a few will.

Is the domain "industry" a little too set in its ways? Quite possibly in my opinion. But the way to change that is, in my humble and optimistic world view, to try new things, to use logic and careful analysis. And putting effort into trying things.

I like a lot the careful and logical way that @Joe Nichols has contributed to this thread . I think we could all learn a lot from how he has structured his responses. Yes, it is more work responding in a precise way and truly reading long posts, but ultimately that pays off. It is very easy to make mistakes (trust me, I have made enough to be sure of this statement ) if we jump to defend an idea, rather than seeing if there is perhaps something we overlooked or did not think deeply enough about.

I have, over the few years, learned many things from many people on NamePros. I have learned from people who enthusiastically embraced new ideas I was thinking out loud about, but also learned from those who carefully expressed why they did not think the same.

Bob

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Did you possibly miss seeing this superb argument from @Zak Muscovitch, legal representative for ICA. I think he does a superb job and would ask you to please give the article a read, even though it is long.

For reference, this site will show you the membership of ICA - many of the businesses you note are members.

Did you miss attending the panel session on the proposed .com increases and related issues around the Verisign contract at NamesCon? Many points were well expressed. I do realize it was unfortunately scheduled in parallel with a very popular other session and many did not attend.

I think that there was indeed, on multiple fronts, a logical and sound counter-argument to the Verisign bog post made. The fact that they never followed up with the promised second posting, and that responsibility for the blog changed shortly thereafter, is I believe partly due to the fact that they recognized that the post had gone too far.

Bob

Actually Bob...the blog post by Verisign only confirmed what I knew all along.

1. Domains are being "hoarded", evidenced by 98% of second market domains don't see the light of day.
2. "End User" consumers/businesses haven't a clue this treasure chest of domains exists

I think we confirmed that very few businesses or consumers know about the domain industry. That's sort of like you inventing Tesla, and only you and your engineer buddies know about it. Do you understand the analogy?

Bob...i know I'm known for "crappy" domains, but the reason I started this thread was to bring attention to the need to break up the hoard. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the fact that 98% of domains stay in the barn each year is deplorable, and I intend to do my best to do something about it.

Here is a domain I hand reg'd this am...ever hear of a bare bones budget? Where I come from businesses and consumers alike work on bare bones budgets regularly. Well guess what Bob, for $8.50 I'm the proud owner of BareBonesBudget.com. Sure it's 15 letters and three words, but what accounting firms or accountants of which there are thousands would like to own a "catchy" domain like this. The fact that it's been reg'd for 7 of the last 13 years and not sold speaks volumes to me Bob.....99 and 9/10 of the accountants the world don't know it exists

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I hate to be a broken record @ThatNameGuy but where in the Verisign blog post does it say that what is needed is that those who hold domain names need to be more efficient at selling them using better outbound? Please just show me with a quote, and I promise to carefully read it in context and respond.
Bob

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Rich, these exchanges are far from a waste of time. They benefit all members whether they're actively engaged in outbound marketing or not; but the benefit only arises from constructive discussions and clear explanations of ideas and experiences.

I do still conduct outbound marketing at times, and I enjoy discussing its merits. There are a host of challenges that come with doing it well (many of which I myself have yet to learn), and newer members who are considering using outbound strategies can benefit from these kinds of details.

"Rich, these exchanges are far from a waste of time"???? For crying out loud Joe, I NEVER SAID they were. Am I speaking Chinese? Mandarin? Russian?

 

[ThatNameGuy]

I hate to be a broken record @ThatNameGuy but where in the Verisign blog post does it say that what is needed is that those who hold domain names need to be more efficient at selling them using better outbound? Please just show me with a quote, and I promise to carefully read it in context and respond.
Bob

Bob...the whole gist of the blog post confirmed to me that domains are in fact "hoarded" to the detriment of consumers and businesses. That being said, i just knew education via "outbound" sales and marketing strategies has an excellent chance of working. Is that hard to understand?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

That being said, i just knew education via "outbound" sales and marketing strategies has an excellent chance of working. Is that hard to understand?

So no quote? Their central tenets as I read it were there should be no price cap because other people add most to the prices to end users, and those other people have no useful purpose as per this statement:

"Flipping domain names or warehousing them to create scarcity adds nothing to the industry and merely allows those engaged in this questionable practice to enrich themselves at the expense of consumers and businesses."​

So whether you flip it on day 1, or after holding it for 50 years, in their eyes there is nothing added. It is not that better outbound techniques would help. After encouraging the aftermarket for many years, Verisign suddenly pivoted to say the aftermarket is the problem. But I don't read that it is because it is slow or inefficient. It is money paid by end-users that does not go to Verisign is the problem. And since there is that money, don't cap our prices, we don't add much anyway.... or so the argument goes.

I am all for education for many reasons. I am all for better general public knowledge of domain names. I am all for being creative and outside the box thinking. I am all for finding new ways to more efficiently sell domain names.

Can we concentrate on specifically how to do those things? Those who have tried new things, even if they did not work out, are in a particularly strong position to make important contributions.

While there may be times when a specific domain name adds to the conversation by being mentioned, for the most part I think it is irrelevant.

We should all be aware of how efficiently indexed on Google NamePros is. Let us be positive in searching for more efficient ways we can help users secure domain names that will add significant value to what they want to do.

Thanks

Bob

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Yesterday we were discussing in this thread whether the one should do outreach with the general public about domain names, or only with potential purchasers.

I decided to pose the question on Twitter:

Should domain experts similarly do outreach beyond direct connections to sales? (e.g. with youth, community groups, general public)​

The poll got 27 replies (not many, but more than the 3 or 4 of us who discussed it here yesterday).

• 74% said definitely
• 15% said now and then
• 11% said never

Bob

 

[Josh R]

 

[Kai W.]

you win Biggie Have a great friday all!

You have all won, my work is very much, and my profit is far less than 1000%.

 

[Kai W.]

These “visual aids” are more needed for garbage brandables that wouldn’t sell otherwise versus top exact match domains that for the most part speak and stand on their own.

otherwise versus top exact match domains very scarce, probably only 0.01%, and most of us are rarely held.

 

[Kai W.]

"Rich, these exchanges are far from a waste of time"???? For crying out loud Joe, I NEVER SAID they were. Am I speaking Chinese? Mandarin? Russian?

You have inspired my new ideas. Now many countries have begun to implement local protection trade policies, and political contests have been reflected in the business activities of enterprises. This may help us realize that our future sales will be tough: unless a US company, any non-global company in other countries will choose cctld instead of com because they mistakenly believe that the data exchanged on .com is not safe.

 

[Kai W.]

The general public are not our customers. And I would even venture that making them aware of the domain name aftermarket would only serve to make our jobs harder in a lot of ways. More competition... more spamming of low quality names... and ultimately an even bigger stranglehold on the largest chunk of the profits for the industry's big players.

I Agree.
What the industry needs is money allocation, not staffing.

 

[BaileyUK]

HappyW

Learn how to edit within 30 minutes, Not over post / cut and paste additional 'inserted' quotes / and save us all a lot of repeated Bulloney.

Then Hopefully we can then continue to follow a thread in further development, without you filling half-a-page with mindless nonsense

 

[ThatNameGuy]

Yesterday we were discussing in this thread whether the one should do outreach with the general public about domain names, or only with potential purchasers.

I decided to pose the question on Twitter:

Should domain experts similarly do outreach beyond direct connections to sales? (e.g. with youth, community groups, general public)​

The poll got 27 replies (not many, but more than the 3 or 4 of us who discussed it here yesterday).

• 74% said definitely
• 15% said now and then
• 11% said never

Bob

if one only knew what a "Domain Expert" really is

 

[BaileyUK]

Yesterday we were discussing in this thread whether the one should do outreach with the general public about domain names, or only with potential purchasers.

Surely (that general public angle) that's like trying to sell a $5,000 restaurant coffee machine to a home user. because he loves coffee

 

[ThatNameGuy]

You have inspired my new ideas. Now many countries have begun to implement local protection trade policies, and political contests have been reflected in the business activities of enterprises. This may help us realize that our future sales will be tough: unless a US company, any non-global company in other countries will choose cctld instead of com because they mistakenly believe that the data exchanged on .com is not safe.

It seems I've inspired quite a few members HappyW. Speaking of "sales will be tough", with 98% of domains staying in the barn every year, i would say sales are already tough You can only bury your head in the sand so long before you suffocate

Since this thread was started a little over a week ago I was inspired to spend $25.00 on the following names; BrandOriginator.com, BrandEnomics.com and RebrandPros.com. Granted according to my critics I suck at creating names, but I'm guessing the devil must make me do it.

Anyway HappyW, i've always known, When the going gets tough, the TOUGH GET GOINGThanks for the inspiration

 

[Joe N]

While there may be times when a specific domain name adds to the conversation by being mentioned, for the most part I think it is irrelevant.

Great point here, Bob.