question "End User" Perceptions

[BoGoKing]

BrandPro - DomainPro - NamePro??? What name resonates most with end users? "Brand", "Domain" or "Name"? I know from my experience many business people don't really know what a domain is, however they know what a brand, and a name are.

I believe this is why most domains, 98 of 100 are hoarded and stay on the shelf. Any way you cut it, that's deplorable

Regardless of the definition of "Brand", and the belief an "end user" relates to it more than "Domain", don't you think a marketplace for domain names would best be identified using the term "Brand" like; BrandableBrands.com

Any other thoughts, views or opinions? Thanks

 

[Joe N]

Also, i don't have the excess $$$ to invest in a developer, but I'm happy to share the proceeds that come out of such a relationship.

Rich, if you stopped registering names for a week or two, I think you'd probably save enough money to just pay someone to do the administrative work of listing your names for sale on a few marketplaces.

 

[BoGoKing]

I deleted my brand keyword domains years ago missed out poor speculation had lost faith in some ideas.
I have FreeRebrand
PhantomBranding ( white label products )

Thanks for sharing....i have about a dozen domains with the keyword "brand", two of which I intend to develop for "outbound" marketing/sales of domains to the millions of businesses worldwide. And since I bought these domains from Go Daddy, I intend to use their name strategically in my marketing to add to my credibility. Make sense?

BrandWik.com

and

RebrandPros.com

 

[BoGoKing]

Rich, if you stopped registering names for a week or two, I think you'd probably save enough money to just pay someone to do the administrative work of listing your names for sale on a few marketplaces.

Honestly Joe...i don't know why you care so much You needn't worry about me...there's a techie/developer type with experience just waiting for an opportunity like I have to offer. I'm looking for someone to help me turn this industry on it's head

 

[Joe N]

Honestly Joe...i don't know why you care so much You needn't worry about me...there's a techie/developer type with experience just waiting for an opportunity like I have to offer. I'm looking for someone to help me turn this industry on it's head

I care about everyone on here, Rich. I know you're looking for a long-term partner, but this is separate.

I'm just talking about getting your names visible so you might have a chance to sell some passively while you work on the long-term plans.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I am sort of on fence on this one. I understand the arguments re brands instead of names made by several people in this thread, and brands does have a nice ring to it.

That being said though, a brand is much more than a name, so perhaps people should not call it brands unless they offer the full range of branding related services? Not sure.

The other, and perhaps more significant, issue I have though is not all domains, by any means, are sold a brands. You only need to read the NameBio list every day to see how many are not being sold as brands. So by calling it brands is that defining you in the brandable type names only? Like we all know the kind of names the brandable marketplace sell, and don't sell.

Anyway thank you everone for discussion. And best wishes for your names, domains and brands.

Bob

 

[trelgor]

Brand. I just learned today that in the last 10 years the intellectual property part of the valuation of the most successful businesses have gone from 20/80 to 80/20. Most of that is the brand.

 

[BoGoKing]

I am sort of on fence on this one. I understand the arguments re brands instead of names made by several people in this thread, and brands does have a nice ring to it.

That being said though, a brand is much more than a name, so perhaps people should not call it brands unless they offer the full range of branding related services? Not sure.

The other, and perhaps more significant, issue I have though is not all domains, by any means, are sold a brands. You only need to read the NameBio list every day to see how many are not being sold as brands. So by calling it brands is that defining you in the brandable type names only? Like we all know the kind of names the brandable marketplace sell, and don't sell.

Anyway thank you everone for discussion. And best wishes for your names, domains and brands.

Bob

Bob...it's because "end users" and the general public are not familiar with the word/term "domain" that we felt it necessary to use the keyword "brand" to attract attention. Think of it in terms of a "loss leader" This is why I also plan to use the name "Go Daddy" as part of my "outbound" marketing strategy because I can guarantee that no one other than domainers have ever heard of Sedo, Uniregistry, Dan, Afternic and the list goes on. I want to be known as the brand pro who happens to sell url's aka domains. Make sense?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

It does make sense, and thank you for the explanation @ThatNameGuy, but wouldn't names be even more known than brands? I admit brands does sound better, I just worry a little bit that (based on my two quick reads of branding books) that it seems to me there is so much more than a name involved in a branding exercise. Nonetheless, I agree your explanation makes sense and thank you for providing it to me.
Bob

 

[trelgor]

It does make sense, and thank you for the explanation @ThatNameGuy, but wouldn't names be even more known than brands? I admit brands does sound better, I just worry a little bit that (based on my two quick reads of branding books) that it seems to me there is so much more than a name involved in a branding exercise. Nonetheless, I agree your explanation makes sense and thank you for providing it to me.
Bob

”Name” is too wide, IMO. ”Brand name” would be the least misleading, but that will always shorten down to ”Brand”. Few words we use offer an exact match with the subject.

 

[Joe N]

I am sort of on fence on this one. I understand the arguments re brands instead of names made by several people in this thread, and brands does have a nice ring to it.

That being said though, a brand is much more than a name, so perhaps people should not call it brands unless they offer the full range of branding related services? Not sure.

The other, and perhaps more significant, issue I have though is not all domains, by any means, are sold a brands. You only need to read the NameBio list every day to see how many are not being sold as brands. So by calling it brands is that defining you in the brandable type names only? Like we all know the kind of names the brandable marketplace sell, and don't sell.

Anyway thank you everone for discussion. And best wishes for your names, domains and brands.

Bob

You nailed it, Bob. I agree. A domain name is but one component that goes into developing a brand.

 

[Grego85]

I've found that the term "internet domain name" always translates quickest when talking about domains with normal folk. Saying it this way requires much less explanation in most cases. Also, I see many using the term "Brand" but what they are trying to sell is just a domain name and not a brand. A brand needs to have at least a logo to go with it and a real pre-made brand should come with even more, as it really is the entire business identity as a whole.

 

[BoGoKing]

This post was timely. I just registered OnlineBusinessBrands.com yesterday for future use and I couldn't agree with you more. Presenting domains as "brands" seems to be an easier way for end users to relate as many of them won't see the inherent value of a domain name as is.

The approach I take is to add value to the domain name ie. logo + mockup + social accounts then present to end users the "brand" for sale. Of course the added time it takes to do this for each domain has to make sense and the ROI needs to be there.

But in my experience it's an easier way to increase the value perception of your domains for sale. I'm currently working on a system to streamline these processes, including outreach so hopefully I can share more in the near future.

On the chance we're both right, your post inspired me to reg;

BrandOriginator.com - with GD valuing the keyword "originator" at $1,888, this domain may be a real sleeper? As a domain savant of sorts, I've been feeling pretty brandish lately even though I'm known as a DomainSavant.com in some circles

Thanks for contributing my friend

 

[Joe N]

I can guarantee that no one other than domainers have ever heard of Sedo, Uniregistry, Dan, Afternic and the list goes on.

Rich, Sedo and Afternic alone get several million visitors every month. You're saying it's all domain investors?

 

[BoGoKing]

I've found that the term "internet domain name" always translates quickest when talking about domains with normal folk. Saying it this way requires much less explanation in most cases. Also, I see many using the term "Brand" but what they are trying to sell is just a domain name and not a brand. A brand needs to have at least a logo to go with it and a real pre-made brand should come with even more, as it really is the entire business identity as a whole.

I think I've mentioned this before, but my license plates read "Name Guy". With vanity tags in Virginia being 7 letters or less, I found "Name Guy" is descriptive enough to attract attention. When asked, "what is "Name Guy"...I say, "I name businesses." Most people I know think a domain is a home, land or property. Just look up the definition for "domain" and you'll see why that is.

This said, I find the keyword "brand" combined with "name" as in, "BrandName" or "NameBrand" to be as accurate a description as anything.

Names like Sedo, Uniregistry, Efty, Afternic, and even Epik say/mean absolutely NOTHING. Whereas names like RealtorSue, PlumberBob and TeacherJane are spot on!

Thanks for chiming in Greg

 

[Joe N]

It's interesting that no one you talk to knows what a domain name is, Rich. I find it's the opposite for me. Most know what it is, but weren't aware there was an aftermarket for them.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

It's interesting that no one you talk to knows what a domain name is, Rich. I find it's the opposite for me. Most know what it is, but weren't aware there was an aftermarket for them.

I have a few times specifically sought out what a little group of people think. My experience is somewhat in between. Some know of domain names, but not the term in many cases, but they do know the concept. Almost none know of the aftermarket, which I think is the point that @ThatNameGuy made in the past about listing at the main marketplaces was not enough for this reason.

At least in North America, GoDaddy is well known through advertising, and therefore some find the aftermarket through the Afternic Premium Network exposure.

I actually think one of the things we need is more discussion of domain name issues within the press outside the domain community. Like voice.com selling for $30M should have been bigger news than it was. the move to take off caps, that were already at 10% per year, on .org potentially impacts a huge number of small nonprofits and is a story of interest outside the domain community. The move to extensions that are entire https spaces, and what that means and does not mean, is an interesting story. Some of the good actions cases, like the saving of carrot, would be nice general interest stories. Some of the UDRP cases have been interesting, although perhaps hard to express in a concise and accurate way to a general audience.

I think the other thing we need is for some well known people to talk more about domain names. Elon Musk talking about his many year effort to get Tesla and why he wanted it so much are this kind of story that have got some attention.

Anyway, just some early morning thoughts. I do think that focus on what end-users currently know, and how that can be positively advanced, is an important topic. Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.

Bob

 

[Joe N]

I have a few times specifically sought out what a little group of people think. My experience is somewhat in between. Some know of domain names, but not the term in many cases, but they do know the concept. Almost none know of the aftermarket, which I think is the point that @ThatNameGuy made in the past about listing at the main marketplaces was not enough for this reason.

At least in North America, GoDaddy is well known through advertising, and therefore some find the aftermarket through the Afternic Premium Network exposure.

I actually think one of the things we need is more discussion of domain name issues within the press outside the domain community. Like voice.com selling for $30M should have been bigger news than it was. the move to take off caps, that were already at 10% per year, on .org potentially impacts a huge number of small nonprofits and is a story of interest outside the domain community. The move to extensions that are entire https spaces, and what that means and does not mean, is an interesting story. Some of the good actions cases, like the saving of carrot, would be nice general interest stories. Some of the UDRP cases have been interesting, although perhaps hard to express in a concise and accurate way to a general audience.

I think the other thing we need is for some well known people to talk more about domain names. Elon Musk talking about his many year effort to get Tesla and why he wanted it so much are this kind of story that have got some attention.

Anyway, just some early morning thoughts. I do think that focus on what end-users currently know, and how that can be positively advanced, is an important topic. Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.

Bob

While I agree that it benefits us to further educate business owners on the value of a good domain name, I don't agree that there's any advantage to us educating the general population. There's a reason a lot of "regular" people don't know anything about domain names: they don't need to. They don't have websites, they don't run businesses, and they don't really care about the minutia of this industry.

Wanting to educate the public about our industry is akin to pyrotechnics experts wanting to teach me how to set up a fireworks show... or a theme park designer wanting to show me how to build a roller coaster. I don't care about any of that. I just want to sit back and enjoy the stuff! Let other people in those industries worry about who to pay, what to pay, and how to get it done.

The general public are not our customers. And I would even venture that making them aware of the domain name aftermarket would only serve to make our jobs harder in a lot of ways. More competition... more spamming of low quality names... and ultimately an even bigger stranglehold on the largest chunk of the profits for the industry's big players.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

While I agree that it benefits us to further educate business owners on the value of a good domain name, I don't agree that there's any advantage to us educating the general population.

Respectfully, I disagree Joe, but it is maybe my past-educator side, or even volunteer-journalist side, more than my domainer side. Let me accept for a moment your argument that only business owners need to know. But who are business owners? Or who are people who might become business owners? Or might work in marketing, sales, promotion, legal, tech development, security, etc. for business owners? Or in organizations that support new businesses? It quickly is a lot of people! I can't find the link, and may remember it wrong, but I recall reading once that 1 in 20 people in Canada start a business at some point in their life. And about 20% of those are very young (college aged or near that).

But beyond that directly, there are more than might be thought running side gigs of one kind or another. Others are involved in organizations of every type that use domain names and websites. That is why Wix has more than 110 million active users, and similar services also gaining in popularity. Now most of these will not buy from the aftermarket, but I would argue that if they saw value in a name, and if it was really easy to do, some would in the price range $$$. I fully accept that some NamePros members don't want to deal with $$$ sales as is their right. But really it is where there is at least potential for growth.

I think the challenge is finding a scaleable and profitable business model for this segment of the market. Not easy.

Even more broadly, I think people knowing things is important. Way more people read about astrophysics, psychology, exotic travel, mountain climbing, etc. than ever directly need that information. That is good for society I think. The people who read sports pages is far more than those who ever actually were in competitive sports. People read about theatre, books, films etc. without planning to be a writer or actor.

They don't have websites, they don't run businesses, and they don't really care about the minutia of this industry.

I think you misunderstand what I meant (sorry I am often confusing) by educating. I in no way meant the minutia of this industry - I am not talking how to list a domain name, or use NameBio, etc. I am talking about telling the stories of how a name can be life changing for a business. I think that is interesting even to those without aspirations of setting up a business, but as argued above many people end up setting up a business even though that was not their original plan.

But I also disagree with what you say about most not having website. I volunteer for a local group and of the couple of dozen active people only one would be considered,I think, by your definition a business owner. But a number of them have web presences either personally or for organizations they involve with. Our organization itself has two domain names, and we work closely with three other community organizations, each of which have websites. Another retiree I volunteer with recently got a domain name and website for a self-published memoir she just published. Another has a one person tax operation out of his house. At lesst two others do art (I think one on website and one on Wix but not sure). Another is on executive of a community organization that recently rebranded to a shorter name in .org with an updated website. One I don't know as well has a little local theatre group. Not to mention the dozens of local businesses, all within a few blocks of where I live, who advertise in our volunteer newspaper. They each have websites, whether a local hair salon, a one-of restaurant, a dentist, a real estate office, etc.

Anyway, thank you for your, well-written as always and logically argued post, but I do disagree about educating people in general on domain names. I think if people were reading in the Globe about domain names they are more likely, when they do need one, to at least consider options other than simply the best they can hand-register.

Bob

 

[biggie]

I think the other thing we need is for some well known people to talk more about domain names. Elon Musk talking about his many year effort to get Tesla and why he wanted it so much are this kind of story that have got some attention.

Hi

I can't co-sign on that Bob , and here's why:

I don't agree that there's any advantage to us educating the general population.

And I would even venture that making them aware of the domain name aftermarket would only serve to make our jobs harder in a lot of ways. More competition... more spamming of low quality names... and ultimately an even bigger stranglehold on the largest chunk of the profits for the industry's big players.

I certainly can agree with that.
just imagine.... if Elon the Musk, decided he wanted to buy domain names and throw his duckies in the ring
then he tell his investor buddies how he can outbid everybody and corner the domain aftermarket.

the ignorance of the general public, is what allowed the early birds to get the best worms, that are now seen as the cream of the crop.

but yeah on the other side of that, if a well known person mentions my domain name incidentally or a variation of it, then yes sir... I'm happy.

imo….

 

[Bob Hawkes]

just imagine.... if Elon the Musk, decided he wanted to buy domain names and throw his duckies in the ring
then he tell his investor buddies how he can outbid everybody and corner the domain aftermarket.

Perhaps I should have explained that what I was making reference to was his acquisition of the domain name Tesla.com that he worked on for more than a decade, and for a price of $11 million, recognizing that having the right name was important to the success of a business. I think that message, the more widely known, is valuable for our industry.

While he can of course start any business he wants, I was not making reference to that possibility at all. Sorry as always if I was not clear (I seem to say that often, maybe a message for myself? ).

I think the message of the value of the right domain name is best spread by those who have name recognition and are not in the domain industry, so no hint of a conflict of interest in spreading the message. His name represented this in my mind (although many others could also have been mentioned similarly).

Bob

Edit: I think right now the person who is doing the best job in telling the stories of great names and end-use is @DomainNameWire - quite a few of Andrew's podcasts have been around this idea, including the most recent one in case people have not yet listened to it.