question "End User" Perceptions

[ThatNameGuy]

BrandPro - invalid - NamePro??? What name resonates most with end users? "Brand", "Domain" or "Name"? I know from my experience many business people don't really know what a domain is, however they know what a brand, and a name are.

I believe this is why most domains, 98 of 100 are hoarded and stay on the shelf. Any way you cut it, that's deplorable

Regardless of the definition of "Brand", and the belief an "end user" relates to it more than "Domain", don't you think a marketplace for domain names would best be identified using the term "Brand" like; BrandableBrands.com

Any other thoughts, views or opinions? Thanks

 

[biggie]

makes no difference wtf they call it, when they contact you and ask "how much".

imo….

 

[OnlineBusiness.com]

This post was timely. I just registered OnlineBusinessBrands.com yesterday for future use and I couldn't agree with you more. Presenting domains as "brands" seems to be an easier way for end users to relate as many of them won't see the inherent value of a domain name as is.

The approach I take is to add value to the domain name ie. logo + mockup + social accounts then present to end users the "brand" for sale. Of course the added time it takes to do this for each domain has to make sense and the ROI needs to be there.

But in my experience it's an easier way to increase the value perception of your domains for sale. I'm currently working on a system to streamline these processes, including outreach so hopefully I can share more in the near future.

 

[MSN-Domains]

Thinking of Brands. I have registered a couple i value at $100k+

GotBulloney.com
GetBulloney.com
MyBulloney.com
Bullonify.com
BrandsByBulloney.com
reBulloney.com
BulloneyCBD.com

@ThatNameGuy Would you like to broker these?

 

[biggie]

I don't do the work, my team does

lol

well, I do less work than your team and I don't have to pay no workers.



imo...

 

[Larion]

The internet is now 50 years old and highly intelligent business people still don't understand what a "domain" is and still don't understand the value of a "domain".

Isn't that strange ?


Well, I guess they will learn rather quickly when nobody visits their physical retail-store, their physical company, their physical bank, their physical organisation, etc. anymore.

But many of them are not internet-savvy, so they will never learn.
But they are experts with using Facebook and WhatsApp.

"Visit us on Facebook"

 

[NickB]

http://brandonomics.com/

Need to say more?

Funny.....think they need to sort their own branding out...

"Join us, branding is a the best way to success!"

 

[biggie]

Hmm..if that’s what you think then obviously you only sell domains as domains and don’t increase perceived value.

After receiving inbounding inquiries, I “stage” my names and make them brands and sometimes even starter sites. Have increased prices by 1000’s of percent on several sales doing this.

But yea every investor has their own strategies.

Cheers!

Hi

yeah, that's pretty much how it is

I and probably the majority of other domainers, offer domain names for sale, as is.

what you are doing is basically an in-house brand production, rather than listing on sites like sh, bb and the others in that group, who offer the logo and domain as a package.

the diff is, you put in the work, so yeah, you deserve all the extra duckies

while, I on the other hand, ain't/aren't/am not trying to increase the perceived value,
because it is what it is, and what it is, speaks for itself.

your margins are cool, and i'm cool with mine too
and sure, you might make a little bit more...
but I do less work, than you

imo…

 

[Chris Hydrick]

however they know what a brand, and a name are.

Gaaah.

I told myself I was done hand regging today.

Then I saw this thread and added four more:

B r a n d N a m e D e v e l o p e r (.com)
B r a n d N a m e D e v e l o p e r s (.com)
B r a n d N a m e D e v e l o p i n g (.com)
B r a n d D e v e l o p i n g (.com)

I couldn't figure out which one I liked most, and before I knew it.

 

[Brands.International]

Gaaah.

I told myself I was done hand regging today.

Then I saw this thread and added four more:

B r a n d N a m e D e v e l o p e r (.com)
B r a n d N a m e D e v e l o p e r s (.com)
B r a n d N a m e D e v e l o p i n g (.com)
B r a n d D e v e l o p i n g (.com)

I couldn't figure out which one I liked most, and before I knew it.

When we speak about it, I recently purchased Brands / City , it is cute and kind of short

 

[Grego85]

I've found that the term "internet domain name" always translates quickest when talking about domains with normal folk. Saying it this way requires much less explanation in most cases. Also, I see many using the term "Brand" but what they are trying to sell is just a domain name and not a brand. A brand needs to have at least a logo to go with it and a real pre-made brand should come with even more, as it really is the entire business identity as a whole.

 

[Joe N]

It's interesting that no one you talk to knows what a domain name is, Rich. I find it's the opposite for me. Most know what it is, but weren't aware there was an aftermarket for them.

 

[Joe N]

I have BrandEntrance.com which is also a play on Grand Entrance.

For sale now until I do some SH/Domain reseller thing with it.

Your Brandmother might say that you're brandstanding.

 

[Joe N]

btw Joe...do you believe I'm a narcissist too like your friends

I'm not sure what friends you're referring to, Rich. I consider everyone on the forum to be my peer.

I honestly don't know you well enough to have an opinion. Does it matter to you?

Now to get back to your question, I've already addressed the type of actions I plan to take with regards to sell through rates. Maybe you should go back to some of my previous posts addressing your question.

Okay, I went back and read through your posts. Here are all the statements I found that could be interpreted as concrete plans for action:

My belief is, if you educate them, they will buy.

I believe a HUGE opportunity exists to employ "outbound" sales strategies using the keyword "Brand" indifference to "Domain".

This is also the reason why I choose to register my domains at Go Daddy instead of at Epik, or any other registry for that matter.

i have about a dozen domains with the keyword "brand", two of which I intend to develop for "outbound" marketing/sales of domains to the millions of businesses worldwide. And since I bought these domains from Go Daddy, I intend to use their name strategically in my marketing to add to my credibility.

I want to be known as the brand pro who happens to sell url's aka domains.

I find it real strange the likes of Sedo, Uniregistry, Afternic, Flippa, SquadHelp....the biggest "hoarders" of them all don't come out and defend themselves. My intention is to blow their cover

So I see what you're getting at, but the above only addresses the "what" of your plans, and not the "how". I'm curious to hear about how you're going to:​

• educate the public​
• conduct successful outbound marketing​
• use the GoDaddy name to improve sales​

I'm real curious, do you hang out with just domainers?

No, I'm the only person I know who invests in domain names. I do have a few friends who are in IT or run online businesses, but mostly the people I talk with daily work regular office jobs and are your typical internet user.

How would you identify your friends and peers such that they know about the domain industry?

You misunderstood what I said. Friends I've talked to know what a domain name is; they do not know about the domain name industry.

Moving on Joe...what do you know about Rebranding? Do you know or understand anything about that market like, how large it is, how many businesses rebrand each year, how you might tap into a piece of that market? Do you know anyone who has actually rebranded their business? Have you ever rebranded a business yourself?

No, I know nothing about that market except for what I have read. No personal experience with it whatsoever. I'm here to learn. That's why I'm hoping you can provide us with more detail about your plans.

it's time you shared some of your knowledge in order that we all improve our "outbound" marketing skills.

Sure! I'm always happy to help. I've shared my own advice in some of your other threads, which you're welcome to go back and read. And if you have any specific questions, I'd be happy to address them.

I've had some moderate success at conducting outbound. My experience has been that the names that sell best are those of exact match products and services like the following (in .com):

• ParkingLotDesign
• CustomBarnDoors
• VisualInterpreter(s)
• ScarlessBreastReduction
• BicyclePacking
• OrnamentStorage

Total sales of these amounted to $9,785, and total purchase cost was $90, so it can definitely be lucrative. But it's also very time-consuming. I usually send out at least a dozen personalized emails per name (some members here send way way more).

I would say that my success ratio has been maybe 1 name sold out of every 5 or 6. And most of those names are either hand registered or bought at GD closeouts. So technically, the real cost of making the above sales was more like $630 plus hours and hours of emailing.

Additionally, it's very important to pick the right kinds of names. Hundreds (or more) of dollars can easily be wasted on names that seem like viable outbound options, but are difficult to find buyers for. I have lots of tips I could share about that as well, but I don't want to ramble on too much!

Anyway, I'm starting to move away from the outbound model, because with a full-time job and a couple active kids, time is a bit of a premium. I'm trying to focus on acquiring better quality names that "sell themselves" so to speak. The trick here is acquiring them at good prices (I'm generally aiming in the $100 to $1,000 cost range, depending on quality). It takes a lot of work and research, but over time my goal is to build a modestly sized portfolio of names that can be sold in the mid $X,XXX to mid-high $XX,XXX range. I scale slowly, but like you I enjoy hunting for (and catching) good names.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I find it real strange the likes of Sedo, Uniregistry, Afternic, Flippa, SquadHelp....the biggest "hoarders"

With the exception of Uniregistry's own holdings (a portion of their marketplace) and recently SquadHelp beginning to hold a few domains, those sites do not hold domains by rather facilitate sales by others. They are certainly supporting a domain aftermarket, but not directly (with exceptions I noted) participating in it. I believe to say they are hoarding would be to say that eBay, Shopify etc. are hoarding products, which is of course untrue. They are marketplaces to sell domain names.

As ICA and others have pointed out, holding domain names is no different than holding real estate, commodities, etc. and is a totally lawful activity. By using language Verisign did in the blog post, in places, and others repeating it, does not change that fact. In essence investing in domain names is completely similar to investing in many other speculative assets.

Are those who finance startups, realizing that many will fail but a few will succeed markedly, hoarding startup companies through private financing? What about someone who invests in art that at this moment most others do not see worth in? Are they hoarding art? Should they not be rewarded when a small portion of that art finds commercial viability? I would argue that in both of those cases, and indeed in a host of others, those who invest early in speculative assets do a service to the community. I wrote about these and many other reasons why a healthy domain aftermarket serves a purpose in this long blog post about a year ago. The fact that sell-through rates are low (or business success rates low for startups) simply tells us that significant risk is involved.

I do not disagree at all with the premise that you have raised that a better sell through rate would benefit both end users and domainers (and indeed the registries indirectly). I would politely and respectfully, however, urge you to concentrate on proposing specific ways to do that, rather than misquoting and calling names, which is neither positive nor helpful.

Thank you,

Bob

 

[OnlineBusiness.com]

Hmm..if that’s what you think then obviously you only sell domains as domains and don’t increase perceived value.

After receiving inbounding inquiries, I “stage” my names and make them brands and sometimes even starter sites. Have increased prices by 1000’s of percent on several sales doing this.

But yea every investor has their own strategies.

Cheers!

 

[OnlineBusiness.com]

you win Biggie Have a great friday all!

 

[Brands.International]

Well, I named my marketplace Brands / International, not Domains / International, because as I see it, I basically sell Brands, not Domains really

 

[ResoluteDomains]

The internet is now 50 years old and highly intelligent business people still don't understand what a "domain" is and still don't understand the value of a "domain".

Isn't that strange ?


Well, I guess they will learn rather quickly when nobody visits their physical retail-store, their physical company, their physical bank, their physical organisation, etc. anymore.

But many of them are not internet-savvy, so they will never learn.
But they are experts with using Facebook and WhatsApp.

"Visit us on Facebook"

It is sad that people know what Facebook (IMO today's AOL) is but dont realize that facebook.com is the domain name. But that is how it goes. There is a generation or two of people who still do not know what a domain name is.

I just had a garage door repaired and the guy (I'd say mid-40s) asked me "So, what is it that you do??". Among other things I mentioned that I buy/sell invest in domain names and he asked me "whats a domain name?" So that started the typical reply and you could see the wheels turning in his brain. He just never thought about it I guess and when he discussed it he seemed very intrigued and interested (unless he was a good actor!) LOL.

But yes, probably more people than no know what facebook and social media is than they know what brands and domains are.

 

[Steven McEvoy]

http://brandonomics.com/

Need to say more?

my EYESS!!!

 

[branding]

Being honest as well, i would be looking at "partnering" in some capacity with a developer type who sees value in my brands/domains, and value in me personally. I've been close a couple of times, but neither time have we consummated our relationship Also, i don't have the excess $$$ to invest in a developer, but I'm happy to share the proceeds that come out of such a relationship. Does this make sense?

Thanks

I see. Well, the hardest thing in finding a partner for you is that it's unclear what your endgame/goal is. Just looking from my perspective.

Do you want to build out turnkey brands, domain included? Do you want to just sell domains? Are you looking to get a foot in the door at marketing agencies? Branding agencies?

Maybe it's time for you to just write up a business plan. In my experience once you start writing down what you want and need you get a much better insight on what it is that you're trying to achieve.

Some honest advice.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

It's interesting that no one you talk to knows what a domain name is, Rich. I find it's the opposite for me. Most know what it is, but weren't aware there was an aftermarket for them.

I have a few times specifically sought out what a little group of people think. My experience is somewhat in between. Some know of domain names, but not the term in many cases, but they do know the concept. Almost none know of the aftermarket, which I think is the point that @ThatNameGuy made in the past about listing at the main marketplaces was not enough for this reason.

At least in North America, GoDaddy is well known through advertising, and therefore some find the aftermarket through the Afternic Premium Network exposure.

I actually think one of the things we need is more discussion of domain name issues within the press outside the domain community. Like voice.com selling for $30M should have been bigger news than it was. the move to take off caps, that were already at 10% per year, on .org potentially impacts a huge number of small nonprofits and is a story of interest outside the domain community. The move to extensions that are entire https spaces, and what that means and does not mean, is an interesting story. Some of the good actions cases, like the saving of carrot, would be nice general interest stories. Some of the UDRP cases have been interesting, although perhaps hard to express in a concise and accurate way to a general audience.

I think the other thing we need is for some well known people to talk more about domain names. Elon Musk talking about his many year effort to get Tesla and why he wanted it so much are this kind of story that have got some attention.

Anyway, just some early morning thoughts. I do think that focus on what end-users currently know, and how that can be positively advanced, is an important topic. Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.

Bob

 

[Joe N]

I have a few times specifically sought out what a little group of people think. My experience is somewhat in between. Some know of domain names, but not the term in many cases, but they do know the concept. Almost none know of the aftermarket, which I think is the point that @ThatNameGuy made in the past about listing at the main marketplaces was not enough for this reason.

At least in North America, GoDaddy is well known through advertising, and therefore some find the aftermarket through the Afternic Premium Network exposure.

I actually think one of the things we need is more discussion of domain name issues within the press outside the domain community. Like voice.com selling for $30M should have been bigger news than it was. the move to take off caps, that were already at 10% per year, on .org potentially impacts a huge number of small nonprofits and is a story of interest outside the domain community. The move to extensions that are entire https spaces, and what that means and does not mean, is an interesting story. Some of the good actions cases, like the saving of carrot, would be nice general interest stories. Some of the UDRP cases have been interesting, although perhaps hard to express in a concise and accurate way to a general audience.

I think the other thing we need is for some well known people to talk more about domain names. Elon Musk talking about his many year effort to get Tesla and why he wanted it so much are this kind of story that have got some attention.

Anyway, just some early morning thoughts. I do think that focus on what end-users currently know, and how that can be positively advanced, is an important topic. Thanks to all who have contributed to the discussion.

Bob

While I agree that it benefits us to further educate business owners on the value of a good domain name, I don't agree that there's any advantage to us educating the general population. There's a reason a lot of "regular" people don't know anything about domain names: they don't need to. They don't have websites, they don't run businesses, and they don't really care about the minutia of this industry.

Wanting to educate the public about our industry is akin to pyrotechnics experts wanting to teach me how to set up a fireworks show... or a theme park designer wanting to show me how to build a roller coaster. I don't care about any of that. I just want to sit back and enjoy the stuff! Let other people in those industries worry about who to pay, what to pay, and how to get it done.

The general public are not our customers. And I would even venture that making them aware of the domain name aftermarket would only serve to make our jobs harder in a lot of ways. More competition... more spamming of low quality names... and ultimately an even bigger stranglehold on the largest chunk of the profits for the industry's big players.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

just imagine.... if Elon the Musk, decided he wanted to buy domain names and throw his duckies in the ring
then he tell his investor buddies how he can outbid everybody and corner the domain aftermarket.

Perhaps I should have explained that what I was making reference to was his acquisition of the domain name Tesla.com that he worked on for more than a decade, and for a price of $11 million, recognizing that having the right name was important to the success of a business. I think that message, the more widely known, is valuable for our industry.

While he can of course start any business he wants, I was not making reference to that possibility at all. Sorry as always if I was not clear (I seem to say that often, maybe a message for myself? ).

I think the message of the value of the right domain name is best spread by those who have name recognition and are not in the domain industry, so no hint of a conflict of interest in spreading the message. His name represented this in my mind (although many others could also have been mentioned similarly).

Bob

Edit: I think right now the person who is doing the best job in telling the stories of great names and end-use is @DomainNameWire - quite a few of Andrew's podcasts have been around this idea, including the most recent one in case people have not yet listened to it.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I hate to be a broken record @ThatNameGuy but where in the Verisign blog post does it say that what is needed is that those who hold domain names need to be more efficient at selling them using better outbound? Please just show me with a quote, and I promise to carefully read it in context and respond.
Bob