Do you guys give up in domaining yet? Or are you thirsty for more?

[Arief WN]

I see some members here are giving up in domaining.
Is domaining really that hard? Or have they just found something cooler to do?

Guys, I'm giving up domaining.
I have enjoyed posting here and meeting friends, but the time has come for me to move on.
I wish everyone all the best and good luck in their domaining venture.
Cheers guys!

I quit domaining and didn't reg a domain name since a year
...

 

[werty]

Well, I make a full time living from domaining. A very good one actually. Many domainers lose money because they focus on collecting domains or winning many auctions rather than buying a few at the right price. In reality, if you want to make it a business, you gotta focus on buying very low and selling very high. If you focus on that, you are ahead than the majority... I lose many auctions I could technically win because I don't feel I am getting a GREAT price. So I prefer to lose and wait for a better opportunity. Also there are other people who are willing to risk more as they have a longer time frame or don't mind holding domains for years. I just buy with the intentions to sell in 30 days or less. Just leave the emotions out and focus on the numbers... After that, the sales are just a numbers games. And yes, 2012 has been harder than previous years for domain names. But what industry isn't going through the same? None! It still is a profitable business. You just gotta adapt and make small changes here and there. Just buy lower than usual!

 

[Whogister]

I never did domaining as a business... Most of the domains that I sold have been from the buyer contacting me about an undeveloped domain and asking if it was for sale.

I think where most people fail is when they register the stupidest domain names they can find and think it's awesome and try to resell it for a million bucks... if you ever posted in the domains wanted section you probably seen a lot of examples.

 

[advaita]

Werty - which auctions do you buy at ? Godaddy ?

 

[Arief WN]

I see two contradictory opinions in here, but that's cool.

So I think the conclusion is:
- If you have a longer time frame for your domains, then you should take more risk.
- But if you want to sell your domains as soon as possible, then you should avoid taking any risk.

Thanks for your thoughts, guys.

...
Perhaps now is the time for us to venture bigger and take bigger risks.
For example the domain Fiesta.org was in private auction at Namejet and I bid up to $900. The winning bid was $950.
Should I have taken more of a risk? Yes perhaps so.

...
I lose many auctions I could technically win because I don't feel I am getting a GREAT price.
So I prefer to lose and wait for a better opportunity.

Also there are other people who are willing to risk more as they have a longer time frame or don't mind holding domains for years.
I just buy with the intentions to sell in 30 days or less.
...

 

[werty]

I buy at most expired/expiring domain markets. Wherever I see good opportunities. Well the risk you should take, also depends on your available capital. But yeah, longer term domainers can afford to risk more as the game is different when someone approaches you to buy a domain (top dollar) vs you reaching out an end user ("discounted price")....

 

[Name Trader]

There will always be risk in domaining. Nothing is without risk unless you are selling domains you don't own and only buy them after you have made a sale. So even flippers are taking risks. The best flippers know what will sell at a profit, eliminating a lot of the risk (most of the time). Long term domainer or flipper both have to manage their amount of risk.

 

[SpareDomains]

Look through your portfolio and pick out a few gems that you have an interest in that maybe you overlooked and develop them.

I have a good handful of developed sites that keep me busy updating that are profitable so that I don't have to hunt down domain sales.

Almost every domain I own was purchased expired at reg fee and .com dating from 1998-2012. Have sold plenty of $8 expired .com domains in the low to high x,xxx range.

Keep yourself busy/profitable with other projects and you can sustain an economy dip.

I never was a flipper as once ya flip a gem hard to replace it with similar quality as time goes on and more competition enters the market. For me there is only 1 buyer and that is an end user assuming the quality of the domain is there.

Successful domaining is not only buying the right domains but having the negotiating skills to capitalize when the "right" buyer comes knocking.

 

[kerwin]

In the year 2012?
It's god-awful hard.
Matter of fact, it's so hard that certain persons who enjoyed great success at domaining early on (when it was trivially easy) have made gigantic asses of themselves in recent years trying their hands at it now that actual brainpower is required.

People come on a forum like this and see all these people participating and think to themselves 'surely, all these people doing it, somebody's got to be making money somewhere...' but the real answer is pretty ugly.

The vast, vast, vast, vast majority are not. What you have left here are a few straggling hobbyists, a gaggle of newbies who are still in the enthusiasm phase (that will wear off after a renewal cycle or two) and a core group of retards who have income from other sources that are just too hard-headed to realize that they suck at this. Bad.

To put it more plainly, aside from a flkue sale here or there, there are very, very few people here actively posting on namepros making meaningful amounts of money at this. You could count them on one hand.

I love you Fonzie. You tell it like it is.

With the glut of tools, resources, and conferences at our disposal, you'd think that domaining is a viable business which employs many people. But all of this infrastrucutre is both bloated and misleading. In reality, there are maybe 250 people TOPS who make a full time living in domaining. And most of these people got started early and made most of their money in years past.

That's one reason why I'll never join DNF. In a no-money industry like this one, you need to save every penny you can.

 

[Arief WN]

I think you're too skeptical. :imho:

To see some constant domain sales, you just have to check some sites such as: NameBio, DnSalePrice, DnJournal, etc... :blink:

Or simply see that lovely banner on the top.

...
In a no-money industry like this one, you need to save every penny you can.

 

[Kate]

In reality, there are maybe 250 people TOPS who make a full time living in domaining.

IMO the figure is higher than that. But it's clear that for the majority domaining is a hobby. If you are in the black, you are already doing better than average.

And most of these people got started early and made most of their money in years past.

It's never too late if you are smart and dedicated enough. For example Reberry and Frank Schilling are latecomers.

That's one reason why I'll never join DNF. In a no-money industry like this one, you need to save every penny you can.

A cheap attitude will get you nowhere. It takes money to make money

 

[alien51]

For the average domainer, I think many people are miscalculating (if not exaggerating) when they say they are doing Domaining for a living.

You have to declare your Cost Of Living Expenses, which must be LESS than your net profits from domain sales.

Are you paying your mortgage, gas, electricity, water, clothing, food, are you single, supporting a family of 5, paying insurance premiums,....??

You have to subtract all these costs out of your domaining profits. How much money will be left?

So if you are flipping for 50 bucks, or $200, or a few sales of $1,000 in a year. Is that enough for livelihood?

Either you must be an extremely frugal person, or someone else is paying for your food and lodging while you are spending your time on Domaining.

Your arithmetic of economics, might be suffering from serious miscalculations.

 

[GiftedDomains]

Even if i could pay all my expenses and live 100% from Domaining, i would never quit my main job and focus only on domaining, because this is one of the most speculative businesses out there, like Stockmarket, and it can collapse anytime. So as a side income its nice, and if the side income gets bigger than your main job income, then thats even nicer.

Then again you could say that everything can collapse, but there are some jobs which are not so "fragile" as domaining, stock trading, etc.

 

[-Adam-]

For me it has had its ups and downs but I enjoy it. I don't make a living at it but I do manage to pay some bills off with some of my sales. I just find it as an enjoyable hobby. That's why I don't mind giving away domain names from time to time.

 

[werty]

I pay ALL my bills from Domaining. My wife doesn't work and I pay her bills as well. I focus on cash flow and not sales. And I work 4 hours on average per day. Maybe 6 per day on rough weeks where I have to put in more time... You get what you put into it. I spent more than a year loosing money at first. Then breaking even. Then at profit. It takes time to learn how to buy good domains. And even with only buying good domains, you will have rough weeks...

 

[-Adam-]

Very cool werty! How long did it take you overall to find that sweet spot where you could make a living at it?

 

[werty]

After about one year I started seeing constant end user sales but I was blowing my profits away by trying to win every auction I was at (breaking even). I became profitable after about one year and a half when I switched from a sales perspective to a cash flow perspective... Many sales fall in this industry and even more now with the fragile economy, so I just focus on cash flow as that's what matters the most...

 

[kerwin]

IMO the figure is higher than that. But it's clear that for the majority domaining is a hobby. If you are in the black, you are already doing better than average.

It's never too late if you are smart and dedicated enough. For example Reberry and Frank Schilling are latecomers.

Are you sure Reberry is successful? Even if he is, it should be noted that he seems to have started out with an unusual amount of capital. Since domaining is a numbers game, you might be able to make a living by registering 20,000 "pretty good" domains - the occasional sale will cover all of the registration fees (I believe that Reberry uses his own dropcatching technology). But most of us cannot hope to emulate that business model.

As for Frank Schilling, I'm pretty sure he's been around since at least 2000. The market was much different back then.

---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:01 PM ----------

I pay ALL my bills from Domaining. My wife doesn't work and I pay her bills as well. I focus on cash flow and not sales. And I work 4 hours on average per day. Maybe 6 per day on rough weeks where I have to put in more time... You get what you put into it. I spent more than a year loosing money at first. Then breaking even. Then at profit. It takes time to learn how to buy good domains. And even with only buying good domains, you will have rough weeks...

Congratulations on your full time domaining success. You are in an elite group.

 

[Arief WN]

Nice tips, thanks.

After about one year I started seeing constant end user sales but I was blowing my profits away by trying to win every auction I was at (breaking even).

I became profitable after about one year and a half when I switched from a sales perspective to a cash flow perspective.

Many sales fall in this industry and even more now with the fragile economy, so I just focus on cash flow as that's what matters the most.

 

[Theologian]

Just found this thread and it is interesting. I do think there is money to be made, but you really do need to be more creative and willing to take steady, small profits while waiting for the big hit (if it ever comes).

 

[Eric Lyon]

I see some members here are giving up in domaining.
Is domaining really that hard? Or have they just found something cooler to do?

I've ridden the roller coaster of domaining off and on since about 2005 (Not as long as many others). I'm primarily a hobbyist, however it was domaining that got me started in my small online website empire building which "IS" my full time business model (Products / Services / Ad Rev). So I can accredit domaining as my inspirational medium into the expansion of attainable development which now has me working 100% online.

I agree with what a few have already stated in this thread based on their personal experiences and no holds bared attitudes (Pulling no punches). Domaining (like anything else in life) has a learning curve and multiple paths that can be taken that lead to different outcomes. No 2 domainers are identical in what they do, even though some try to mimic / copy others success. There's always a personal element left out or added that can make or break the strategy.

It really comes down to trial and error in most cases with the added security of avoiding mistakes you see others make. It's not an easy road in 2012 (as others pointed out) due to the saturation of the industry, the economy, the soon to be new tld's, etc.. People have more to fear now than they did back in the earlier years of the industry, more to lose, based on the psychological pressures mixed / fluctuating value presents now.

We already know that at the end of each day a domain is only truly worth what a buyer is willing to pay or what you can convince them it's worth in your sales presentation. The important element of sales / marketing skills now plays a huge roll in valuing, unlike the times of the past where a name sold based on it's own merits without any effort at all (Granted, there's still a few out there that do sell them self, however they are normally in the investment brackets new start-ups can't obtain the capital for).

Is domaining dead? Not by any means, far from it, the game has merely changed.

Like werty, who stated he switched from a sales perspective to a cash flow perspective. I see domaining in a similar, but possibly a little different fashion. I used to focus on the bottom line $$$$ amount regardless what the investment was. I would basically research and find what similar names sold for and then stamp a price tag on mine thinking that was the optimal way to go about it. I later realized that my Hobby benefited more by focusing on the ROI%'s (Return on investment).

Reality clearly shows that domaining (by far) produces some of the best ROI's hands down from other industries. Where WalMart may max their mark-ups on products by 15% to 40%, it's not uncommon to find domains selling at 100% to 10,000%+ mark-ups. You really can't find that amount of ROI in any brick-n-mortar business, or even in stocks / bonds / loans for that matter. I think if more people looked at the actual ROI of domaining rather than the cardboard sign $$$$$, it would help them rotate / flip more of their assets without as much hesitation.

I'm not saying holding out for what you think a domain is worth is wrong, I'm just saying that in the current domain game you need to diversify and sometimes play both side to the middle. Have your long holds pile (Cardboard sign $,$$$+), Your quick flip pile (ROI based), Your development pile (Product / service / ad rev.), Your parking pile (typos / typins) Etc... Now is the time to take some of your eggs out of your primary basket and expand on them creating new baskets. Last thing you want is for your only basket to break during all the game changes and be left scratching your head with nothing left to put into play.

At any rate, I'll digress for now and point out that the above is simply my personal opinion and what works for me may not work for anyone else. We all have our own formula / strategy that works for us. However if you don't already have a working strategy, giving up should be your last option, first research, then research some more, then start some small niche market testing (Low risk investments), then analyze the data, rotate out what doesn't work and retain what does, rinse & repeat till you establish more capital for larger and or higher risk investments. In the end, you'll eventually establish a strategy that's been tailored to your needs and works great for you, your sweet spot.

Good luck and don't be to quick to give up.. Adapt, Improvise, Overcome!

Eric Lyon

 

[lennco]

In reality, there are maybe 250 people TOPS who make a full time living in domaining.

In the entire world of over 7 billion people there are only 250 people making a full time living at domaining?

I think you need to get out more

 

[Kate]

I do think there is money to be made, but you really do need to be more creative and willing to take steady, small profits while waiting for the big hit (if it ever comes).

Exactly right. Many are holding out for the big offer that will never come. Instead, make smaller sales but repeat them often. The small sales add up.
Start making money today. That big name you just registered that-is-going-to-be-worth-big-bucks-in-ten-or-twenty-years is just that, a dream.

Are you sure Reberry is successful? Even if he is, it should be noted that he seems to have started out with an unusual amount of capital. Since domaining is a numbers game, you might be able to make a living by registering 20,000 "pretty good" domains - the occasional sale will cover all of the registration fees (I believe that Reberry uses his own dropcatching technology). But most of us cannot hope to emulate that business model.

You don't have to operate on the same scale, but you can still be successful. Werty makes a living but I don't think he has 300,000+ domains like Reberry. Other regular NPers like Bmugford are also fulltimers I believe.
I don't want to be Reberry or Schilling either.

I think it boils down to expectations, many people enter the business with hopes of good money for almost zero work. Even in a high markup industry like domaining it's not realistic.

Why are you hanging around here if you think it's too late ?

 

[alien51]

Instead, make smaller sales but repeat them often. The small sales add up.

Many domainers here are also hybrid website developers. Sometimes, when you reg a nice domain, you see the value of using that domain (for yourself) for a lucrative website you can monetize (while waiting for a buyer).

It's difficult to "let go" of a nice domain for a mere $300, when based on your experience the potential revenue you can earn from it thru monetization (developed website) is say $1,000 a year. Sometimes, i earn $50-$100 a month on a website that i have never touched in 6 months (it's a fully developed site).

That big name you just registered that-is-going-to-be-worth-big-bucks-in-ten-or-twenty-years is just that, a dream.

Because Domaining is based on speculation, you can never tell. If you have other sources of income, for a mere $8 annual renewal cost, 20 years is just $160 expense. If you have a day job like an engineer, a banker, or you're a Google employee, you could hold that domain your entire lifetime.

It is not compulsory to be a full-time domainer.

Why are you hanging around here if you think it's too late ?

I'm hanging out for the coupons. Keeping the costs down. LOL

 

[equity78]

The phrase " I earn my living as a domainer full time" can be subjective because you don't know what all the other intangibles are. Someone 21 living in a loft maybe doing that, another person reading that with a spouse and two children could not probably live on the same income. Certainly there are people who do like Werty mentioned he does.

For an industry so focused on numbers there really are not many shared. Some think there are 100 full time domainers worldwide, I have read some people going as high as 10,000.

The lack of transparency starts from the get go, people love to talk about x,xxx sales. Is that $1000 or $9000 because that makes a big difference.

This business has changed and it is more about sales and marketing skill, all the great domains for free or reg fee are gone. There are good domains that drop through and can be hand regged or maybe picked up on NameJet or Go Daddy for under $100. But now you have to sell, you have to market, you have to be creative. Like any other business that matures this industry now has some very big players. You have outfits like Domain Holdings and Domain Advisors who move high ticket items, Sedo did not have that competition years ago, Mann sold BuyDomains and then started competing against them again with his new Domain Market.

A guy like Brad Mugford is a machine and is moving a lot of volume, there are people who have deals to sell through NameJet and move inventory, if you don't have that relationship you are at a disadvantage.

Many came to domaining thinking its easy, they confused low barrier to entry with easy. "Its only $7 and I am in business.

The game has changed, learn to do more than just register domains and wait for a buyer, that horse and buggy is no longer viable for those not owning super premium .com domains that even any child knows is valuable.

 

[bmugford]

Exactly right. Many are holding out for the big offer that will never come. Instead, make smaller sales but repeat them often. The small sales add up.
Start making money today.

This is good advice for the average domain investor.

The average domain investor did not enter the game in 1997 and is sitting on millions of dollars in capital.

If you shoot for the moon on average domains you are going to lose in the end.

Make good sales and reinvest. That is a business model that works.

One of the most important skills in this profession is being able to accurately price a domain. It is very important when it comes to buying and selling.

Werty makes a living but I don't think he has 300,000+ domains like Reberry. Other regular NPers like Bmugford are also fulltimers I believe.
I don't want to be Reberry or Schilling either.

The majority of my business is domain investing. I own several thousand domains, the vast majority of which have been acquired over the last (5) years by making sales and reinvesting.

Some of the big time domainers are making millions and millions per year, but you don't need to make that much to make a living.

People need to be realistic with their expectations.

In the US the median personal income is about $35K. That works out to a wage of around $16/hour.

There are other countries like India where the median income is $1K - $1200 a year. That works out to an average wage of about $0.50/hour.

This is a business where you can be your own boss. You set your own hours and can do this from anywhere in the world with an internet connection.

This business might not be for everyone, but if you are willing to learn and acquire the skills needed you can make a very good living from domaining.

Brad