.tv Desperate sellers undermine the market

[gr8trfoo]

hey guys, i just wanted to say that the more desperate y'all sound when trying so hard to sell names the worse it is for the market.

we had a nice boost when the rushes broke but most of that interest seems to have dissipated now and i see a lot of people trying hard to flip, often bumping up sales threads on stupid names no one wants.

for those who actually own good names if you want to achieve spectacular results you need to employ a buy and hold strategy. emphasis on the HOLD part. it could take several years for the market to mature. i hate seeing people crow about what a great ROI they earned when talking about turning 20 bucks into 200. sure you 10x your money on that one but maybe you left $10,000 on the table!

and dont talk about "development" either. as much as i hate to say it snoop called it mostly right with his take on what most domainer development means. if your going to do something special with a name then do it! but to hear someone trying to sell quick say something like "if i dont sell this gem real soon i'm going to develop it instead" is about the dumbest thing i can imagine hearing. lordy!

we dont need to talk to death the true value of .tv. what we do need is to maintain the courage of our convictions and hold steady. 5-10 years is NOT too long to wait for a real payday, is it?

 

[DU]

hey guys, i just wanted to say that the more desperate y'all sound when trying so hard to sell names the worse it is for the market.

we had a nice boost when the rushes broke but most of that interest seems to have dissipated now and i see a lot of people trying hard to flip, often bumping up sales threads on stupid names no one wants.

for those who actually own good names if you want to achieve spectacular results you need to employ a buy and hold strategy. emphasis on the HOLD part. it could take several years for the market to mature. i hate seeing people crow about what a great ROI they earned when talking about turning 20 bucks into 200. sure you 10x your money on that one but maybe you left $10,000 on the table!

and dont talk about "development" either. as much as i hate to say it snoop called it mostly right with his take on what most domainer development means. if your going to do something special with a name then do it! but to hear someone trying to sell quick say something like "if i dont sell this gem real soon i'm going to develop it instead" is about the dumbest thing i can imagine hearing. lordy!

we dont need to talk to death the true value of .tv. what we do need is to maintain the courage of our convictions and hold steady. 5-10 years is NOT too long to wait for a real payday, is it?

Not sure what you are trying to say overall but I definitely agree on the development part and have said this before.

Development is never site Development.

Development is slight more than no effort development to hopefully pay for renewal. The question that I have is whether this development actually has a negative/positive effect on the overall pricing of a domain.

Before being called a hypocrite - I have said I would develop but this is limited to 3-4 of my real names and not to be the next Facebook. I consider AllThings and Everything to be "development". They DO serve a purpose. I intend development as proof of concept of an idea more than creating a site. The STUPID thing for me is that I could do that ALL on ictv.us - but I prefer the name to match for personal reasons.

I just regged a nice .TV to create a place for people to post best wishes for a friend being married. It's good enough for me

It appears domainer to domainer that this crappy development actually helps because it's traffic of some kind - but I'm not sure an end user actually cares or not (unless it was used in some kind of scammy way).

But to the rest of your post.....

Finster.. you have to understand you are in an ill-defined market with names that few can tell are good or not. What *makes* a name good? It's hard to say in some instances. What that ill-defined market means though is that it's just like the stock market. You have people short term investing...100 quick $200 is still $20K... (not considering tax implications etc).... and that quick $20K may buy another 200 names @ 2-3 years. Sometimes it IS better to look at the market in a short term manner and sometimes it's better not to.

If you can afford renewal on 1000 names that's great. You HOLD.
If you can afford renewal on 10 but have 20... then you have to SELL.

I don't think any domainer really cares about the return on anyone else's investment.

I'm totally confused by the market pictures. I've seen GoDaddy auctions on .US go for $500 that *might* have gotten a SnapNames backorder.

I've seen names go through GoDaddy Closeout to then get $250 at auction 1 month later. .TV is no clearer. I've seen names on GoDaddy get ZERO interest better than names getting backordered.

I've even seen a domain firstname.us worth an EASY $500 domain tasted and dropped.

Frankly I have NO IDEA what the .TVs I have and hold are worth. I do know that it will take a lot to remove one name from me and some others I would let go for $50.

Take Removal.TV

It's got GOOD ESTIBOT value ~ $2K... it's highly searched (not MASSIVELY).

It works across multiple businesses.


Tattoo Removal/Hair Removal (big business easy to translate to .TV)
Trojan/Malware removal (Bigger search harder for .TV)
Garbage /Trash Removal (Smaller/Local Ad competition)

What would the value on this name be?
Why should I renew it?

I will renew it. It has GREAT potential.

I can almost guarantee this gets picked up before 4.05 am on the day it drops because it looks and sounds and "feels" better than the names available.

SO.

Buy and Hold is a strategy you have the luxury of employing (though you admit to selling some very nice old .coms). Others say they have renewals of $5-10K and are happy. I've see others contemplating a $1300 sale because they are past due on bills (take it dummy!)

There is also the chance that you take a nice one word LLL.tv and refuse an offer of $xx,xxx and then never see that again. EVER.

It's a different game for different people and YOUR convictions are stronger than mine and everyone else here.... I'm not saying you are crazy - far from it, I have great respect for you AND your goals. Others here are definitely HEAVILY invested and vocal, and other heavily invested and QUIET. You are not alone for sure.

But NP is not the best guideline for people. Names with a POSTED BIN have sat here and THEN sold for more at auction.

I can easily afford to hold what I have... but I might not want to...

1973 Ford Mustang Mach 1 for Sale From P.J.'s Auto World Classic, Muscle Cars and Exotic Cars

 

[dr manos]

I agree with both in main points.
.tv market seems still no mature so have to not be desperate

My question (i set it to myself with no response so far also)

Someone would like to invest at .tvs an hypothetical amount of $1000
what would you advice between these 3 options:

a) take a premium domain (eg pop.tv that dropped yesterday was $1000 premium if i remember well). This has result, firstly to have to pay only 30$ next year to renew it and very good chances to sell it as it is a good LLL.

b) take 100 .tvs that you like from drops or from personal ideas taking advantage of the $10 offers now. This has as result to have some chances to give some from 100, but have to pay 3k for renewals next year if will keep all.

c) something between these 2. Take 20 .tvs for 5 years taking advantage of current offers so you have to pay again at 2015 and maybe sell some of these.

still i can not answer this, if someone has some ideas please share

thanks

manos

 

[SKG]

I hate selling low, and thus I never will

 

[Jawed]

..............5-10 years is NOT too long to wait for a real payday, is it?

I agree with most of what you said, however, 5-10 years might not be long enough for investors but it is TOO long for ordinary domainers imo.

 

[montechristos]

dot tv looks like a hot potato in hands of most tv holders.
In general, agree with 90% of the above. Especially with this part:

"we dont need to talk to death the true value of .tv. what we do need is to maintain the courage of our convictions and hold steady. 5-10 years is NOT too long to wait for a real payday, is it? "

+1000

if you "believe" some of your .tv, let them breath.

 

[Michelle]

I believe in my .tv names and have not/will not .. sell them cheap...



Now repeat the above :tu:

 

[Alex P]

Remember it is the recession some people need money and they need it fast.

 

[Michelle]

Remember it is the recession some people need money and they need it fast.

This is very true. The recession has really hurt everything and very much domaining ..

 

[Alex P]

Idd be a old man in 5-10 years I don't think I could hold out that long with no domain unless it was a project. :P

 

[Vito]

I agree 100%.

Desperate Sellers DO undermine the Market.
This holds true with any investment, and Service.

As was mentioned above...there is a recession right now and some people may have over-extended themselves. That is why I am looking at this time as an incredible time to buy. I will hold out, and not sell for too low, except for the domains that I am not too attached to, and then even then...all money I get from any of my sales, always goes right back into my portfolio for domains I feel just a little bit more passionate about, (ones that I would like to develop...just in case I did choose that route)

If people are getting a little hungry right now, just look at it as a great opportunity for further investments, and a little activity is actually needed, just to hopefully get some of these .tv's into some End Users hands to further establish this extension to be the powerhouse it is truly capable of becoming.

Great thread Finster - Repped.

Thanks,
Vito.

 

[DU]

I agree 100%.

Desperate Sellers DO undermine the Market.
This holds true with any investment, and Service.

Desperate sellers don't undermine any market. What undermines a market is investment confidence. A lack of market confidence makes for desperate sellers.

What hurts investment confidence?

What hurts investment confidence is when the number of serious buyers is less than the number of sellers. A buyers market roughly translates to fewer people buying than selling.. in domaining this means outside of domainer to domainer trading.

That said, there's also a herd mentality. Why do people pull out of the stock market when the Dow is at 8,000 when they were invested in it at 11,000? This is BACKWARDS.

.TV is a different beast. In domaining terms it hasn't yet reached 11,000.... will it? I have no idea.

The reality is that I think people have simply OVERVALUED all of .TV as a single entity and a lot of what we're seeing is actually just the results of market demand and realistic pricing. This is no different than .com or any other dot.

The key statement in the OP is:

for those who actually own good names if you want to achieve spectacular results you need to employ a buy and hold strategy.

Question is. What makes a name "good" in 1-2-5-10 years?

Some of the "good names" are selling for decent money now. I fail to see how a bunch of mediocre name sales for $1-15 makes any difference. Shitty .com names drop by the 1000s every day... and are sold for under $20 every day... but this doesn't have any effect on the "good" names that I see.

For those who say the future is now.... there is also the real future which is far less certain.

 

[Kate]

I agree with most of what you said, however, 5-10 years might not be long enough for investors but it is TOO long for ordinary domainers imo.

Agreed. Also, why wait another 10 years when the last decade has not been too encouraging ? Note that it's not just specific to .tv. You never know what can happen, perhaps there are good things ahead but it's more a guessing game than an investment or a calculated risk.

It's true, most domainers cannot afford to wait. If you attempt to do domaining professionally then you cannot ignore cash flow issues. If you do that as a hobby then it's a totally different game.

Remember it is the recession some people need money and they need it fast.

Yes, but let's not blame it on the economy if the market has been consistently flat, and the demand low.

 

[DnEbook]

with some of the purchases after the premium price change there will be some development out there no doubt and this will at least expose the extension more , i happily have a couple of .tv blogs that i advertise on the back of my van and i also have some idn's and now i am basically within my future budget and don't need to sell just for the sake of it.

I am there owners of many extensions that have to wait for longer than they wish to .......even .com owners can't command instant sales all the time

 

[snoop]

hey guys, i just wanted to say that the more desperate y'all sound when trying so hard to sell names the worse it is for the market.

we had a nice boost when the rushes broke but most of that interest seems to have dissipated now and i see a lot of people trying hard to flip, often bumping up sales threads on stupid names no one wants.

for those who actually own good names if you want to achieve spectacular results you need to employ a buy and hold strategy. emphasis on the HOLD part. it could take several years for the market to mature. i hate seeing people crow about what a great ROI they earned when talking about turning 20 bucks into 200. sure you 10x your money on that one but maybe you left $10,000 on the table!

Telling people not to be "desperate" will not help your cause. There absolutely no point trying to tell people how act in relation to these names, they'll do what they think is right, not what you think is right.

It is a bit like a couple of months ago when Jimbo was trying to drum up support for Sedo auctions as though he was standing on the bow as the ship went down. "Please support .tv", "Please support the market", "We are desperate you know, we must start auctions and bid", "Keep the ball rolling, otherwise it will die".

If you genuinely have confidence in the .tv market then ask yourself why you are starting threads like this.

 

[namenut]

Telling people not to be "desperate" will not help your cause. There absolutely no point trying to tell people how act in relation to these names, they'll do what they think is right, not what you think is right.

It is a bit like a couple of months ago when Jimbo was trying to drum up support for Sedo auctions as though he was standing on the bow as the ship went down. "Please support .tv", "Please support the market", "We are desperate you know, we must start auctions and bid", "Keep the ball rolling, otherwise it will die".

If you genuinely have confidence in the .tv market then ask yourself why you are starting threads like this.

Yea ... I gotta agree w/ Snoop. "We" usually don't intersect on agreement street and your right ave. but you simply gotta acknowledge there are many styles of domaining. I hold some long and reg some to flip. We've all discounted names to raise funds.

I think the best influence the veterans or experienced domainers can use would be to help educate noobs on better name regging. This would cut a lot of the "dumping" down. I see peeps criticize a reg but don't follow up with an explanation and some advice.

The next step is to try to spread some development luv (knowledge) to help grow the niche and gain exposure but domainers tend to keep their money and success making models to themselves.

Man .... I sound like a mother hen. :o


NN

 

[biggie]

most times it takes 5 > 10 years to get a good roi on a .com domain


so when holding your .tv's, keep that in perspective




imo...

 

[snoop]

The next step is to try to spread some development luv (knowledge) to help grow the niche and gain exposure but domainers tend to keep their money and success making models to themselves.

Man .... I sound like a mother hen. :o


NN

In my opinion that is a waste of time. Most domainers have no genuine interest in development, it is an afterthought to try and monetize names with no revenue/cover reg fees. Encouraging domainers to develop is like trying to teach a bear to dance, even if you do teach it probably won't be a very good dance. The best step would be for a domainers to sell to people with genuine development interests in a particular name. ie the kind of guy who wants that one name and has no real interest in domaining.

 

[gr8trfoo]

In my opinion that is a waste of time. Most domainers have no genuine interest in development, it is an afterthought to try and monetize names with no revenue/cover reg fees. Encouraging domainers to develop is like trying to teach a bear to dance, even if you do teach it probably won't be a very good dance. The best step would be for a domainers to sell to people with genuine development interests in a particular name. ie the kind of guy who wants that one name and has no real interest in domaining.

you dont really like domainers do you, snoop?

---------- Post added at 02:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:56 PM ----------

There absolutely no point trying to tell people how act in relation to these names, they'll do what they think is right, not what you think is right.

sounds like advice you should be giving yourself more than half the time

 

[exsedo]

I advise everyone to take the advice.
Hold for at least 5 Years.
( Then I can offload mine before the bubble bursts ) Just Kidding :lol: