discuss Baffled by people against hand reg

[Laguna]

As many of you know, I hand reg all my domains. Most posts I have read are all against it. I am baffled by this as ALL domains were originally hand reg . Your comments and opinions are welcome but NO personal comments about my way of doing things please.

 

[Kate]

Love this post. These experienced domainers don't talk about the huge amount of money they spend on quality domains that have been sitting around for years tying up their money.

That's what an investment is: money tied up in something.
But it's better to have $1000 tied up in one single quality domain, than in 100 handregs that nobody wants.

For example I have bought (and sold) LLL.com for 20K (or somewhere in that range). It's a lot of money tied up.
But these names are highly liquid and coveted by end users. If faced with a financial emergency (happens to everyone), you can resell them quite fast at wholesale price to another domainer. At a small profit normally, or you might take a small loss if the timing is unfortunate but you still have cash in hand.
Those names are assets, whereas the 100 handregs are liabilities that will just drain your wallet.

If I can't make a profit on my outlay I will stop. But I'm 100% confident I can within a year

This is not going to happen I think. You should accept that the first year will yield a negative return for you.
This is no different in the real world, many new businesses also record a loss in their first years of operation and only become profitable later on. However, they have something: a business plan. Domainers need a business plan too, treat like a real business. If you treat like a hobby, you are unlikely to make any meaningful profit. Hobbyists are collectors and they tend to buy more than they sell.

Remember that it takes patience. There is no rule that says you need to become profitable from Y1. But the sooner the better.
Ponder this story:
How a Fishmonger Lost $300K Learning the Domain Name Ropes – With Andrew Rosener

 

[Internet.Domains]

I already explained it to you, I told you it was relevant. Then you actually ask how? I don't understand your struggle to understand that. Somebody is baffled about hand regs and his own personal experience is zero inquiries/sales. It doesn't get much more dot to dot than that. He's new, he's learning. Like I said, you can get sales off hand regs, I have. But the better names are in the aftermarket. Those names, overall, usually have a better chance at selling.

I am not going to debate about the meat of your proposition.

Separate from the debate, when someone cordially requests something, it is common courtesy to oblige.

He said, "NO personal comments about my way of doing things please."

The first thing you did was point to his personal way of doing things. You did this against his request. That's not cool.

Its reasons like this that many people do not post due to fear of being ridiculed. It stifles conversation and creates unnecessary silence, exactly the opposite of a forums purpose. I struggle, not to understand your proposition, but with why common courtesy can't be honored.

 

[Brands.International]

I have actually checked the portfolio and I think there are 5 or 6 nice .com names which I think are pretty good, and I would renew them if they would be mine (and if I would invest in .com, which I do not).

Those new gTLDs there, I would not renew any of them, I think probabilities are very very low for any resale for those names.

If you keep the good core of your portfolio, those seevral good names, that would be imo great start.

In the first year of domaining every one looses money. So it is important to drop bad names, not to send good money after bad money, so to speak.

 

[lock]

Nearly all of my domains are hand reg domains and I believe I have some great domains. The other side is you can buy dropped domains that someone else thought it wasn't worth renewing. Can you color in or are you an artist? You either have a creative mind to dream up next big thing or you can watch what is dropped and valuate those keywords search terms. The end of the day a domain is either available or unavailable. How good is it when something relevant hasn't been taken your heart skips a beat as sale goes though.
Thing with expired domains you find something so you start you muck around doing a bit of homework before buying it only to miss out on it. This happens so often it becomes disheartening. The real idea is dream up what YOU want be your own end user find the gem and keep a piece of the pie.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

In case not noticed, user @Trent1000 has just posted a superb analysis of domain sales self-reported on the completed sales NPs thread for the past year. Now he only studied outbound (201 sales in total) but for that data he reports that 78% had been hand-registered. You can see his full detailed analysis here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/namepros-reported-outbound-sales-of-2018-analysis.1117029/

It is likely that the percentage hand-registered is higher for outbound than inbound, but still this supports the idea that indeed hand reg are being sold.

Bob

 

[Internet.Domains]

The thing about hand regging future tech is the psychological effect of owning a part of the future. Whether it takes off or not, most likely there hasn't been a lot lost. It's generally done in good fun, with some possibility at the end. It's under ten bucks at most registrars. You can hand reg 100 names for well under a $1000 bucks. Not too many people are going to be drastically effected by some hand regging. If it's going to change your lifestyle, stay away. Otherwise enjoy it.

On the other hand, there are many stories of veterans paying $10,000, $100,000 and upwards on a domain only to be holding on to it for years with no significant inquiries.

Pick and choose your battles, and most importantly enjoy the journey.

 

[JB Lions]

I have only spent 500 in total so far so not concerned about any losses at the moment .I have a year on most before I have to renew but I won't be renewing any. If I can't make a profit on my outlay I will stop. But I'm 100% confident I can within a year

At the end of the day, inquiries/sales will let you know if you're on the right track or not. No guessing involved. You're either getting some action on them or not. Of course, I haven't checked your setup, some people aren't setup to sell. Recent example of bulloney, where he didn't do anything and landing page was some GoDaddy broker page where people have to pay money, just to send in an offer. That's a straight up sales killer.

Since I mentioned newsletter above, I just hand regged 2 more I had on my watchlist, webmaster and swimming plus newsletter. Do I get excited about these? Nah. But this is more of a fun thing, since there is no risk at this point at all. Let's me experiment, try things out. They all have to meet some minimums, which I feel separates them from some others I might have my eyes on. Nothing too deep. I only buy .coms. So with these hand regs, if I see they're registered in another extension, that's like 1 point in my head. Were these ever developed? If so, another point. It shows somebody in the past bought and developed the domain. An example with the one I just registered, webmasternewsletter:

WebProNews:

https://web.archive.org/web/20010518233358/http://www.webmasternewsletter.com

 

[karmaco]

I must be out of the ordinary because I made money way above my investment in 8 months time. I realize I was lucky for a beginner to pull in multiple 4 figure sales on hand regs. Perfect timing during the crypto craze late 2017 early 2018. I know this doesn’t happen for everyone. Beginners luck and timing.

Now that I’ve been and am going through renewals I understand how hard it is to keep all the balls juggling and know which balls to drop . How you see your names now will drastically change a year or two from now. You will judge them much harder and with better knowledge. You will cringe at some not sure what you were thinking.

Everyone starts out very sure of themselves oh this is so easy but some people here have waited years for their first substantial sale. If that had happened to me I would not have the luxury to renew as many as I wanted to.

So you might not like people’s delivery here but rest assured you will see things differently as time goes on. We all do.

With that being said, it only takes a few good sales even one to cover your investment and renew the best. I never want to destroy anyone’s hope here. So you gotta measure your enthusiasm with a willingness to hear things from people who have gone through it allready.

 

[lock]

Hand reg is an easy way to lose lots of money, almost always very low quality names people picking up that business don’t want even at $10.

The dropped domains you buy were once hand reg. Gtld oppprtunities are all hand reg. I could find better hand registered domains with better resale and register them in 5 mins . If looking at dropped for 5 minutes would find names not really into but buy for traffic etc and end up with far less resale value in the same 5 minutes. My opinion of dropped names is to milk them for last drop of traffic then drop them. My portfolio is proof hand registration has more merit than you care to consider.

The Internet is in English but the people buying names may not necessarily use it. Translations are probably responsible for half the hand reg fails. People without experience are buying up crap terms all great news in my books. There are plenty of crap domainers hand registering crap and the good domainers continue to find gold. I know who these good domainers are on here they register great domains and offer sound advice.

 

[McDuke]

.

Yes I read everything that is said on here as well as doing my own research. But I have been keeping quiet

I hear yah, in 4 years you'll be saying the same thing to new domainers these guys are saying to you now. Heck, I can remember debating with the same guys you do now when i became interested in domain names and "sometimes" ;p those guys were right. I'm still a rookie too btw.

Hand regs can sell, it takes time and knowledge to know how to look and what to look for. It can take days or weeks until the right domain comes to you and is available in .com or (other extensions "on rare occasions"). Searching for hand reg domains is fun and addictive but it's easy to get caught in a hand reg rabbit hole. When people do get caught, most of those registrations are junk and the renewal fees end up killing their ROI. There are a tonne of opportunities to find good expiring domains, although it is getting harder to win auctions / drop catch.

It wouldn't hurt to watch every domain sherpa episode from day one and if you want to save money and time, sign up to DN Academy. There you'll get access to years of experience. Domaining isn't the type of business people openly give free information because you essentially are their competitor and it takes years to learn. But, if you are professional and courteous that goes a long way when starting out.

Domaining isn't for everyone as it requires multiple skill sets and at times deep pockets.

just my 0.03$

 

[JB Lions]

Your own thread:

Never had a sale or inquiry

https://www.namepros.com/threads/never-had-a-sale-or-inquiry-trendingspy-com.1116283/

Can you sell a hand reg? Or course. But if it's available, somehow everybody in the world missed it, so chances are lower for a sale vs. domains picked up elsewhere, like the aftermarket.

 

[bmugford]

A hand reg in 2018 is a lot different than a hand reg in 1998.

As time goes on, hand regs become worse.

Exactly. While there might be some exceptions to the rule, the vast majority of domains are available for a reason.

You need to actually make sales in order to show a proof of concept. Otherwise, you are just collecting liabilities.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

I guess you didn't read his opening.

Yeah, well it kind of proves the point.

Many people are against hand regs because the average available quality is low, so the odds of making a sale are low.

Brad

 

[BaileyUK]

I agree with Kate. But, it isn't just about today's poor availability. Pretty much every business that is in existence (lets say pre 2008) had to secure their chosen domain and of course many if not most were already held by domainers, certainly those domains that could be described as a descriptive were mostly taken. But today your really only dealing with new startups and new technology domains as a business opportunity.

The massive growth in the internet and on-line presence is not going to be repeated.

I took some time today to read a few pages of the 20 page plus, post about Ntlds and the costs of renewals. I don't know what shocked me the most the domains being registered or the renewal prices being paid. We would need a 'second coming' of the internet to see even a small fraction of those domains end up in end users hands.

Sorry but that's my opinion and based on pure logic

 

[bmugford]

You say this thread is a waste of time yet you spent time replying. REALLY !!

He actually said almost a waste of time, yet still stuck around to give you some valuable information.

There is no point dealing in crap domains. If you are experienced you might be able to find some hidden gems here and there, but with limited experience hand regs are likely going to be a waste of time.

If you buy a decent name for a $100 ish then the renewals don't matter as much as paying for renewals on something that is largely worthless.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Point taken. But as everyone keeps telling me, it's early days

Early days of what? The internet is well established and there are 130M+ .COM regs.
It is slim pickings on what is available.

Most hand regs are available for a reason, because no one else wanted it. It is unlikely that something would be available then all of sudden another party is willing to pay a premium for it.

Brad

 

[equity78]

I read it, but it's relevant obviously.

Of course it's relevant because all domaining is personal. I was glad to see Rick call it an individual sport which is what I wrote several years ago in the first post on tldinvestors.

It's not if it can be done, it's if I can do it. Poker same 52 cards for everyone at every table, can someone win a lot of money playing poker? Sure, can you?

Everything is personal in this business, there are men and women who don't have the bankroll or the stones to pull the trigger on a 3L.com at $25,000 in auction, others do it every day and flip or sell for big money down the road.

Rick was not the only person who knew about domains 24 years ago, how many had the stones to pay $42,000 for Porno.com in 1997? Not many.

https://www.thedomains.com/2015/02/...4th-highest-reported-domain-sale-of-all-time/

 

[NonHipster]

"Beauty Is In The Eye Of The End User" Quote by NonHipster

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I really like statistics of verified reported domain sales.

That would be an awesome article/spreadsheet to see.

Surprised if it even came close to 50%. Although i would think most important stat of these hand regged verified sales is the timeline of hand reg. Whether those veeified hand-reged somain sales were all regged in last year, couple years as opposed to lets say 10 yr ago hand reg's

Really looking forward to seeing that spreadsheet/article if you do that and post it somewhere.

Thanks for our comment. I will definitely be doing an article that will go on NameTalent, and with a summary on NPs and link, but it will be awhile as I want to do more than a simple presentation.

There are a few where it is not clear, and I have a few queries out, but re hand reg I did not count it as hand reg if they said hand reg but it was like 4 years ago. Essentially if it was anything more than 2 renewals I counted it as NOT a hand reg. I started recording hold time, but it was so variably reported I decided to not bother with it.

As you allude, it is self-reported, so that needs to be taken into account. I earlier did an analysis of venue for about a month, and someone suggested that the price info was needed, therefore this time I include TLD and that as well as if apparent hand-reg. There is no doubt the fraction hand-reg will go down for .com only, and down further for high value .com. It may go below 50%. probably will, but there are a lot of sales of hand reg.

I was surprised again this month there were not as many at Sedo as I would have expected. Also surprised how few .net.

I may at some point try to use NameBio with some filters and look at Whois to try to split out hand-reg for some data set, but that is even more work.

Bob

 

[Kate]

MidasCoffeeChain In dot com

For someone who wants to ( or already has) open a chain of coffee bars.
Am I on the right lines now ?

Not at all. What makes you think there is one human being on this Earth who will want to buy it from you, when they could just make up another brand name.
Why not register something that you could use for some useful purpose ? You are accumulating names that will never be put to use.
And since you already registered the domain, see if the registrar offers grace delete.

The key is not to own a big portfolio but a small number of quality names that will attract end users. Rather than allocate your disposable income toward bad regs that nobody wants, buy just a few aged, quality names instead.
Quality > quantity.

Just to clarify I am not against handregs, but against bad handregs. It's hard to find good handregs, that are good enough to resell. I think you need to analyze the market more until you get a feel of what kinds of names are in demand.

 

[NameBuyer.com]

"Hand Reg" is a relative term if you think about it. I have an Expired Domains watchlist of filtered domains. Out of the ones I don't buy, I'd say 50% get registered within 6 months.

So did those new buyers buy a "Hand Reg", or did they buy an expired domain that didn't sell in auction?

I've sold around $8k in domains last year that were "hand reg'd" for $7, in the same year. But they were all owned at some point in the past.

 

[Internet.Domains]

I read it, but it's relevant obviously.

Relevant? How so? He made no statement of facts in his opening. On top of that he specifically stated, "NO personal comments about my way of doing things please."

And you couldn't honor that?

No need to answer that last question, as this can quickly turn off topic.

 

[Brands.International]

As many of you know, I hand reg all my domains. Most posts I have read are all against it. I am baffled by this as ALL domains were originally hand reg . Your comments and opinions are welcome but NO personal comments about my way of doing things please.

PLEASE DO NOT HANDREG, YOU WILL BE WAISTING YOUR MONEY

That is all I can say about it, particularly when we speak about legacy extensions like .com or .org. Almost no chance that you (or me) are more clever then all people out there. Honestly I do not see how new domainers in 2019 can make any money here, it works only for few incredibly hard working people, but not for 99% of people. I am not speaking here about people who registered their domains in 1997 and are now smiling all the way to the bank, I speak about new domainers with few bucks who are just starting.

As for new gTLDs, I always felt it has better chances for new domainers because of much less competition - the nicest and most profitable way nowdays is to drop-chatch (or register just after they are dropped) some good names, which were registered in EAPs by early pioneers in 2014/2015. People are dropping those from many reasons, particularly when they paid for hundreds or thousands of them very early, and they are not aware of all possibilities to keep them for cheap.This window of opportunity is also closing very quickly, it becomes very hard now.

 

[JB Lions]

I am not going to debate about the meat of your proposition.

Separate from the debate, when someone cordially requests something, it is common courtesy to oblige.

He said, "NO personal comments about my way of doing things please."

The first thing you did was point to his personal way of doing things. You did this against his request. That's not cool.

Its reasons like this that many people do not post due to fear of being ridiculed. It stifles conversation and creates unnecessary silence, exactly the opposite of a forums purpose. I struggle, not to understand your proposition, but with why common courtesy can't be honored.

Bob starts a thread wanting people to explain to him why he should wear a helmet when riding his motorcycle but don't mention anything personal.

Me - Understanding personal matters in this case, links to a thread where Bob fell off his motorcycle and hit his head on a light pole, putting him in the hospital for 2 months.

internet.domains (redundant name) - how is this possibly relevant?

That's where it's at. Not sure if there is some magical number of times somebody needs to explain something to you before you understand. Again, already explained why I posted that. If you don't understand, that's your issue. Continuing to cry about it isn't going to change it.

 

[Internet.Domains]

As for auto close I don't really care to be honest. However I should not have used bad language and I apologize

For what it's worth, you are excused for the bad language. For sometime now I have witnessed you being unnecessarily attacked. I am about to use some foul language on your behalf....hahaha