IT.COM

Are dashed domains undervalued by domainers?

NameSilo
Watch
In my 10+ years of domaining I have often been mystified by the 'perceived wisdoms' within the domaining community, some had partial truths behind them whilst others obviously were almost totally without foundation and relied solely on repeating it often enough (usually by one or more of the big names in the domaining community) that they became ingrained in domaining lore in much the same way as an an urban myth develops. Today I am going to take on one of these perceived wisdoms, the lack of value of any domain containing a dash or hyphen.

It is evident that all the top domain names are registered in the .com suffix whether they be 2 character domains right through to domains made up of two, three, or even four words. Indeed the top domains are registered in almost all TLD's and ccTLD's. Most of these domains are perceived to have a value greater than the annual registration fee of the domain, yet as soon as a dash (hyphen) is introduced to a domain name it is then considered by many domainers to become almost worthless if not worthless, and this to a great extent is due to someone who I admire as generally talking a great deal of sense about domains, Rick Schwartz.

I have read numerous blogs and posts by Rick Schwartz over the years and although I am not sure it was he who first came up with the phrase 'radio test' the one thing for sure is that his usage of it has made it almost domaining lore when valuing a domain name - and this of course applies to dashed domain names. (I should say here that I use the term 'dash' or 'dashed' in preference to 'hyphen' or 'hyphened' much the same way that people have adapted to using the term 'dot' instead of 'full stop'). The 'radio test' is how people who might HEAR the domain on radio or aurally through some other means understand the address name. The inclusion of a 'dash' in a domain has for years been seen as failing the so-called 'radio test'.

Now there are several things to point out in favour of dashed domains that are generally ignored by many domainers, but due to lack of space per post (and the fact any readers of this might not want to read more than the minimum) I shall just list them.

  • Most people are introduced to a website either through search engines or through clicking links in articles or emails.
  • Most businesses are small to medium businesses who cannot afford the top dollar premium domains that mainly large conglomerates buy but still want a descriptive domain/s for their business, this applies to businesses throughout the world including a growing number in the USA who are utilising dashed domains.
  • Predictive addressing in the address bar means that when a user has visited a site the predictive address is supplied in the address bar, and this includes the 'dash' in the address (I vistit the Cel-Robox site and as soon as I start typing the address the predictive address comes up with Cel-robox.com).
  • Owners of non-dashed domains should for defensive reasons alone acquire the dashed version, whilst competitors might want the dashed version to link through to their own site or launch a competing site (here I refer to non-TM domain names).
  • In many instances a dashed .com domain name should (IMO) be worth at least the value of the undashed .net domain name.
  • Multiple uses of single dashes such as with L-L-L.com or N-N-N.com are easily readable and memorable visually, so again these are valuable domains (perhaps seen by the current uptrend in registrations and snaps occuring). Again these will not be as valuable as a LLL.com or NNN.com but should I think be at least as valuable as the corresponding LLL.net or NNN.net.
Anyone want to make this a discussion?
 
Last edited:
18
•••
The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Domainers and end users say that dashed version of a domain has a % of value of the undashed domain because the domain sales reports says so. Dashed domains do sell. Prove they don't.
As usual, reported sales. Very few dashed domains are featured on a weekly basis.
There is no reason why they would be under-reported, unless they do not meet the reporting threshold of course.
But I haven't said they never sell, i just said the odds of making a sale are significant lower, all things being equal.

So I don't think they are undervalued really, if dashed domains don't sell often, it's normal that domainers consider them to be a riskier investment.

Try to find a GOOD two keyword dashed domain that is avail. like stock-market.com oh wait that has been taken for 10yrs now. Yes you can find some that might be avail. but not two good keywords! Post one up if you find something for reg fees!!!!!! I would love to see what you come up with!
It's correct, good dashed keywords are hard to find especially in .com.
But that still doesn't mean that the names already registered will sell. Millions of domain names are for sale, less than 1% of the supply is valuable and will sell at some point. Just because a name is registered, doesn't mean somebody else is willing to buy it.

Have a look at the latest reported sales at DNJ, here are just a couple dashed domains whose non-dashed equivalents have just sold. They are still available. I haven't checked all the sold names of course. This is just a small sample.

safe-manuals.com
pet-ports.com
pin-pile.com
card-supermarket.com
beauty-therapy.com

Now if you think these names have value, now that the non-dashed versions have sold, then go ahead and register them. Maybe you'll make a sale :)

Why didn't you buy globalmarketing.com? I know why....because it wasn't available and you would have paid a good amount for it in the aftermarket. Why would you buy the dashed version? Because it was available in the aftermarket for $69 which wasn't reg fee! So you paid a % of what the undashed version would go for. Someone bought it before you or it wouldn't be in the aftermarket. Therefore someone else also thought it had value. What is that value?? That is between you(seller) and the buyer. Would you sell it for what you paid? Do you think it is worth more than you paid? How much more. What %?
I mentioned this name just to show that I am not totally hostile to dashed domains.
To me it is an opportunity, a great combo at a low price. Some end users don't mind they hyphen.
Assumption: globalmarketing.com isn't for sale apparently, so global-marketing.com could be the next best option (or not).
I am realistic, and I know that just like any other domain - this one might never sell. Bit of a gamble here.
 
0
•••
I have 5 of the 100 N--N.com

pm if interested.

_______________

& guess which ones

I'd like to keep 1 maybe 2
- trade the others.

_______________________

also have a few N--L and L--L
What do you consider floor prices ?? ....... interested to know thanks
 
0
•••
not sure what a floor price would be.

best solution = win-win.
 
1
•••
0
•••
0
•••
There aren't that many sales of short hyphenated domains reported because no one is selling. I think the price guide from 3Character.com is as good of a valuation on the short, rare ones as we can get.

From 3Character.com:

L-L.com - $4500
N-N.com - $8000
L-N.com - $2500
N-L.com - $2500

I think this would be considered a floor price, especially if the domain was regged in the 90's. Also, if the letters or numbers have extra demand or meaning - for example w-2, w-3, v-r, u-2, o-2, b-6, 8-8, 3-8, 5-0, h-r, a-b, c-o, etc. - the value would be even higher.
 
2
•••
A very nice thread. Intelligent discussion.

You know, it is about supply and demand and value. ...NOT... That is the result.
It is a self generating prophecy when someone tells you it will hurt your traffic or it won't bring as much value and the market take that as the gospel and reacts with that.

Just look at the similar/reverse happening in CHIPs
with no hope of many of those having a real end user want or need.
I'm speaking about 6N .anythings. 5L non-words as example.
Someone is telling them they have value.
And names that actually will have a need or a want are bringing far less money.
And V is worth less...
Does that mean they don't want any Virtual Reality names (vr)? They would be worthless right?

So the cause of the hyphen/dash story still is alive in the market in many forms.
But it is hard to really measure the value + or - as nobody ever really tried.
It's not like you will find a hyphen in search engine keyword searches !

The value of anything rests with the end-user. It has to have a profitable advantage to spend higher amounts than just buy other names.
 
0
•••
wonder how this relates to the 2x dashes.

I also have ones like

v--6.com
v--8.com

 
0
•••
i believe we will see a bubble and crazy mass regs in C-C names across popular tlds (biz, co, info) similar to what happend to 4L, 4-5-6N etc
as cc, top, wang, xyz already got hit with that (N-N/L-L all taken).. not sure when and if its worth to participate, but i regged some.. at least they are much shorter and rarer than 5L or 7Ns...
 
1
•••
Interesting topic - I've actually been struggling to sell a French focused domain because it DOESN'T have a dash, because in Europe they prefer hyphenation to break up names. But in US market these domains are massively devalued (perhaps purposefully so).

I think that any inflation in prices for short domains with dashes is just part of the "Lollapalooza effect" on the domain market caused by the Chinese money. The dash-domains will never have strong value in US but can flow through the US to markets they hold better value such as Europe or (increasingly) China.

I wouldn't hold any long term personally - unless if the dash somehow plays into the all important radio-test, like say...my-domains.com (My dash domains - good luck making money there :xf.grin:)
 
1
•••
safe-manuals.com
pet-ports.com
pin-pile.com
card-supermarket.com
beauty-therapy.com

I believe the nondashed version of these sold for less than 3k each. Honestly they are not that good of domains to begin with.
cardsupermarket.com I don't think I would have bought that for reg fees. So trying to sell the dashed version would be a hard sale to make.
I see a lot of domains sales that make me scratch my head and ask who would pay that much for that domain.
Kate, I don't mean to beat up on you and I do thank you for your posting, effort, and time!

Did anyone else notice KFZ.com at $72,500 via key-domains.com
I'm not familiar with key-domains.com but it is a dashed domain!

homerestoration.com was a steal at $3488. I would have picked the dashed version of that up in a heartbeat but it has been reg'd since 2009. That domain went way too cheap. Great buy for someone.

To me a N-N-N.com makes the same or more sense than a NNNNN.com
N-N-N.com is only 3 numbers instead of 5. It's easier to remember 3 numbers over 5 numbers, unless the 5 has repeating numbers. N-N-N.com is symmetrical and doesn't "Look" bad.
N-N-N.com is rarer than NNNNN.com with 1000 compared to 100,000 possibilities.
Europe seems to like the dash. I'm not sure of their market share of sales, but if there is growth available in the European aftermarket, then it would seem like the dash is undervalued.

I think the negativity towards the hyphen started so long ago when you could still get the non-hyphen domains. Domains were still avail and the prices weren't sky high like they are going now. So there was no incentive to buy, hold, or resell the hyphen versions. Now that prices have gone up and supplies of good domains have gone down, it's making more sense to buy the dash.
 
Last edited:
2
•••
After recently observed massive purchase of any domain containing 8 I also decided to look for something similar, but at the same time slightly different, and I reached something relatively short which contains 8, but with a dash..... I'm not so proud with this purchase, but only the future will show if I was wrong

This is my first domain with a dash generally no particular reason to do it, but just not restrained, 4 characters LL-8 .com and domains with 8 still change his ownership "fast and furious"

Seen enough on sales, which are meaningless to me but obviously there is a market for such domains and I decide to try :).
The reason to continue with the purchase was that I made a slight reference of such domains in whoisology and many similar ( 4 characters with dash ) domains were owned by Chinese
 
0
•••
Stay away from dashes, unless they are ultra-ultra premium keywords....like Credit-Card.com...
 
1
•••
I think they work great for abbreviations like for states and cities.
L-A (Los Angeles)(Louisiana)
S-F (San Francisco)
N-Y and N-Y-C
T-X
etc
I'm not sure why all LLL.biz .us and others got bought out before the C-C domains. C-C you have more meanings and uses for the domains. LLL domains seem like they may get pulled into a UDRP or reverse domains theft attempts. For that reason I like the number domains. Way less likely to have any UDRP issues in the future. Numbers domains also transcend all languages.
 
0
•••
Stay away from dashes, unless they are ultra-ultra premium keywords....like Credit-Card.com...

ultra-ultra premium keywords have long been gone. Credit-Card.com would probably go for a very large sum of money. Really good two-keyword .com domains are very hard to find.
When 888.com sold for a large amount I'm sure the owner of 8-8-8.com was thrilled and revised what he thought his domain was worth regardless if it was for sale or not.
 
1
•••
Sorry for 3 relies in a row. I tried to do an edit and add the quotes but I had to start another reply to add the quote.

There aren't that many sales of short hyphenated domains reported because no one is selling. I think the price guide from 3Character.com is as good of a valuation on the short, rare ones as we can get.

From 3Character.com

L-L.com - $4500
N-N.com - $8000
L-N.com - $2500
N-L.com - $2500

Have there been any sales at all on N-N.com? I have two that I've had for a while now. Due to the current market I wouldn't sell a N-N.com for less that $100k! I've seen record sales of a couple NNNN.coms at over $200k (crazy). I know I'm crazy but that's they price it would take to pry a N-N.com out of my portfolio. I will pass them on to my daughter unless I get somewhere in that ballpark for them. If no one is selling any of them, then when one does pop up for sale, it's seems like that floor price may jump really quick.

Prices for L-L.com seem CRAZY LOW!!!! LLL.com are going for 10x that price. I would buy 10 L-L before a LLL.com. Just my 2 cents.
 
3
•••
Bought wisely, hyphenated domains can be a good move. They don't sell as fast, and they have very little liquidity (i.e. domainers don't like them). But because domainers don't like them you can often pick them up on the cheap.

Many end users will go with a hyphen when the unhyphenated version is taken or extremely expensive. My best luck in hyphens has been with common company names such as global-whatever, regardless of search numbers. Companies will always want a domain with their name in it, and many would rather have the hyphen than companynameco or companynameusa. I even sold a double hyphen a few months ago on GD premium (I think), though I don't recommend them.

That said, I have become much less inclined to pick up hyphens since all the new TLDs have come out. Hyphens are a 2nd best choice, and new TLDs offer a lot of 2nd best alternatives to choose from.
 
1
•••
Sorry for 3 relies in a row. I tried to do an edit and add the quotes but I had to start another reply to add the quote.



Have there been any sales at all on N-N.com? I have two that I've had for a while now. Due to the current market I wouldn't sell a N-N.com for less that $100k! I've seen record sales of a couple NNNN.coms at over $200k (crazy). I know I'm crazy but that's they price it would take to pry a N-N.com out of my portfolio. I will pass them on to my daughter unless I get somewhere in that ballpark for them. If no one is selling any of them, then when one does pop up for sale, it's seems like that floor price may jump really quick.

Prices for L-L.com seem CRAZY LOW!!!! LLL.com are going for 10x that price. I would buy 10 L-L before a LLL.com. Just my 2 cents.

Go to sedo and check out the auction for 3-4.COM. might be something you're interested in. reserve around 5k-10k it looks like.
 
0
•••
Just picked up 8-8-8.cc on the drop. :)

To celebrate, when the sun comes up I'm driving into the Quarter and buying a hand grenade for breakfast. Followed by Company Burger for lunch. Yes, I love short hyphenated domains.
 
3
•••
Yes, if there were only 1 million registered .coms then I would say they are not undervalued. At 10 million, I would say slightly undervalued. But now at 123Million registered .coms I would say they are extremely undervalued by few big domainers. It is matter of time when a big player realize this and create a shortage of hyphen domins too.imo
 
0
•••
Someone brought up Credit-Card. What do you think that's worth? If that got put through NameJet, what do you guys think it would fetch?

Good-conversation-btw
 
0
•••
Flippa (source: namebio):

c-t.biz 150 USD 2016-01-27
w-b.biz 150 USD 2016-01-27
j-k.biz 150 USD 2016-01-27
 
2
•••
From namebio.com:
8-8888.NET last sold for $288 on 2016-01-18 at Flippa
8-Y.COM last sold for $588 on 2015-12-29 at DropCatch
8--5.COM last sold for $202 on 2015-12-06 at GoDaddy
(double dash/hyphen)
7-RX.COM last sold for $215 on 2015-11-19 at Pheenix
 
Last edited:
1
•••
sold an Aerial domain with a hyphen last friday, buyer from UK.. so they do definitely sell, especially when both keywords are covering a whole niche/industry/application..
 
3
•••
From namebio.com:
8-8888.NET last sold for $288 on 2016-01-18 at Flippa
8-Y.COM last sold for $588 on 2015-12-29 at DropCatch
8--5.COM last sold for $202 on 2015-12-06 at GoDaddy (double dash/hyphen)
7-RX.COM last sold for $215 on 2015-11-19 at Pheenix
Interesting I have 2--8 ....... cheers
 
1
•••
  • The sidebar remains visible by scrolling at a speed relative to the page’s height.
Back