Dynadot

Are dashed domains undervalued by domainers?

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In my 10+ years of domaining I have often been mystified by the 'perceived wisdoms' within the domaining community, some had partial truths behind them whilst others obviously were almost totally without foundation and relied solely on repeating it often enough (usually by one or more of the big names in the domaining community) that they became ingrained in domaining lore in much the same way as an an urban myth develops. Today I am going to take on one of these perceived wisdoms, the lack of value of any domain containing a dash or hyphen.

It is evident that all the top domain names are registered in the .com suffix whether they be 2 character domains right through to domains made up of two, three, or even four words. Indeed the top domains are registered in almost all TLD's and ccTLD's. Most of these domains are perceived to have a value greater than the annual registration fee of the domain, yet as soon as a dash (hyphen) is introduced to a domain name it is then considered by many domainers to become almost worthless if not worthless, and this to a great extent is due to someone who I admire as generally talking a great deal of sense about domains, Rick Schwartz.

I have read numerous blogs and posts by Rick Schwartz over the years and although I am not sure it was he who first came up with the phrase 'radio test' the one thing for sure is that his usage of it has made it almost domaining lore when valuing a domain name - and this of course applies to dashed domain names. (I should say here that I use the term 'dash' or 'dashed' in preference to 'hyphen' or 'hyphened' much the same way that people have adapted to using the term 'dot' instead of 'full stop'). The 'radio test' is how people who might HEAR the domain on radio or aurally through some other means understand the address name. The inclusion of a 'dash' in a domain has for years been seen as failing the so-called 'radio test'.

Now there are several things to point out in favour of dashed domains that are generally ignored by many domainers, but due to lack of space per post (and the fact any readers of this might not want to read more than the minimum) I shall just list them.

  • Most people are introduced to a website either through search engines or through clicking links in articles or emails.
  • Most businesses are small to medium businesses who cannot afford the top dollar premium domains that mainly large conglomerates buy but still want a descriptive domain/s for their business, this applies to businesses throughout the world including a growing number in the USA who are utilising dashed domains.
  • Predictive addressing in the address bar means that when a user has visited a site the predictive address is supplied in the address bar, and this includes the 'dash' in the address (I vistit the Cel-Robox site and as soon as I start typing the address the predictive address comes up with Cel-robox.com).
  • Owners of non-dashed domains should for defensive reasons alone acquire the dashed version, whilst competitors might want the dashed version to link through to their own site or launch a competing site (here I refer to non-TM domain names).
  • In many instances a dashed .com domain name should (IMO) be worth at least the value of the undashed .net domain name.
  • Multiple uses of single dashes such as with L-L-L.com or N-N-N.com are easily readable and memorable visually, so again these are valuable domains (perhaps seen by the current uptrend in registrations and snaps occuring). Again these will not be as valuable as a LLL.com or NNN.com but should I think be at least as valuable as the corresponding LLL.net or NNN.net.
Anyone want to make this a discussion?
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
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I did a quick search on Namebio, 346,000 non-hyphenated sales and 11,000 hyphenated.

About 97% to 3%.

Not sure if this means we should avoid hyphenated domains, I know in Germany they are cool :xf.cool:
 
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TO me, I sold more "dashed" domains than any other regular domain ... !

I think, most of us are perfectionist ! But people don't know about this business ... To them, a domain with a dash or not is almost the same ... And most people don'T care...
 
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I don't have any stats on that, but again why are there fewer dashed domains registered then if they are nearly as good ?

The simple answer is that domainers have avoided them as if they were plagued - which for a decade the 'big boys' of the industry have said they are. But also note that when all the singular word and number domain names there are that would make no sense unless splitting the words into syllables or even individual letters seperated by dashes.

Remember that there are ~ 300million .com domains registered.

Domain sales. They reflect the value bestowed by end users upon domain names.
How many big sales could you quote for hyphenated domains ? I mean sales above 4 figures.
From the top of my head: not so many. I remember only one 6-figure sale, I think it was hotel-reservation.

Might I suggest you read the other comments on this thread for that information about 'big' sales. ;)

Also I would take you up on the point about 'big sales' being to end users - I think many are to other domainers.

I am not saying hyphenated domains must be avoided at all costs. I'm just saying you are much less likely to sell any for big amounts, all things being equal. As a domainer I'd rather focus on where the demand is, unless I can get a truly exceptional combo at a great price. I would certainly register real-estate in a strong, relevant TLD. But I would pass most other hyphenated names. Even though some do make sense. That depends on the keywords.

But are dashed domains a good investment because presently they are undervalued is what I am asking, indeed I am stating they are.

My argument is that a dashed domain in the .com is under valued by being valued at less than the un-dashed .net domain. A good rule of thumb is that generally the .net domain should garner a value of ~ 10% of the .com domain, I am therefore saying that the same valuation should generally be applied to the dashed .com domain.

The statistics will come as end users buy dashed domains from domainers, but at the moment because of the 'domaining lore' that has evolved through the likes of the 'big boys' and aftermarket venues like Sedo frowning on dashed domains the simple fact is that domainers do not own dashed domains in the same ball park range as non-dashed domains and therefore many end users end up registering their dashed domains
rather than buying them from domainers in the aftermarket.
 
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That way of thinking – undervaluing dashed domains by most domainers - is what enabled me to achieve a 100x rate of return on some dashed names. ROI at 13.000 % for best dashed domain sales is what makes them so interesting to me. Do not get me wrong – it does not mean that they sell easily – but that they present a good chance for profit if carefully chosen.

I firmly believe in opportunity, and true opportunity lies in uncovered (underestimated in this case) realms, where most investors do not bother to look. I invested a lot in L-premium_keyword.com combination (e-pizza, s-poker), and it appears to have been a good choice, my best sales come in this segment.

It is easy to invest in highly re-sellable commodity, like premium non-dashed domain, but the competition will decrease your return on investment by driving the acquisition price higher. Investing in dashed domains is not without risk, but keeping the base investment lower than with non-dashed helps mitigate such risk.

I have so much confidence in the future bullish trends of dashed domains that I began putting larger sums in new acquisitions.

But it is true that with dashed domains you need to be much more picky and careful at the moment. Good keywords are not everything in this case.

I am not happy to see – what I considered to be my secret knowledge – revealed in this thread… :D
 
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Very under-valued!!!!!!!!!!!!!

L-L.com
L-L-L.com
L--L.com
N-N.com
N-N-N.com
N--N.com
Are short, rare, and easy to remember. There have been many posts of hyphenated domains sales. They sell.
Yes sex.com is better than s-e-x.com but I bet everyone on here would love to have s-e-x in their portfolio.

When the un-hyphenated domain is selling for $xxx,xxx then the hyphenated domain has to have a portion of that value. If the l-l-l is a word like s-e-x or c-a-r then the value is higher than just random letters. Who on this forum can afford a LLL.com or a NNN.com? How many businesses large or small can afford a LLL.com or NNN.com now with prices skyrocketing up. They will continue to rise making them only accessible to the richest companies and people. Plus they have been long gone. More and more lll.com are being developed into sites, thus pulling them off the aftermarket. More companies are popping up everyday that will need a domain. They can't get the LLL and NNN. They will have to turn to the hyphen domains.

People are buying up 6, 7, and 8 number domains. There are so many of them. 1 million six digit NNNNNN.com's compared to 1000 n-n-n.com or just 100 n-n.com or 100 n--n.com. That's a lot of reg. fees and competition for sales. You can't set the price with a million other similar domains out there.
I would take a n-n-n or n--n over any nnnnnn. It looks better and is easier to remember. Buying a domain like 888123888.com over a domain like 1-2-3.com is crazy.

I look at it like cars or real estate. If 123.com is like a Ferrari, then 1-2-3.com is like a corvette. They both have great value. 123.com is like the penthouse, 1-2-3.com is like a nice apt. a couple floors down in the same building. It's not the penthouse but it's still a nice apt.

More to come.
 
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IMHO the only reason to own a dashed domain name used to be for search engine ranking.

Now the big "G" does not do heavily weighted ranking, for exact match keywords.

I had owned both the dashed and the non dashed domains of very good keywords, at the same time. The dashed used to get more traffic than the non dashed.

Why? because the surfers could more easily make out the domain name with the dash, in the search engine listings.
 
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Dashed domain learn-chinese.com sold for $5,600 at Sedo.
So dashed domains still have value.
 
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I completely agree with your perspective. Over the past year I have seen a few "dashed" domains show up in some of the sales lists, and for decent $ too. I think you are right about the "perceived wisdoms". I see no logical reason why these domains should not have good value.
 
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I agree as well. Dashed domains seem to be undervalued overall.

But it very much depends what market you are targeting. Whilst in Europe people can never be sure whether the name mentioned is dashed or not, in US people would intuitively type the non-dashed version.
And I guess that's where the influence on domainers and end-users came from.

IMO the longer the domain and the more words, the better with dash.
 
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I love hyphenated domain names

I think hyphenated domains is a smarter decision (if you have low budget).
Whisky-Club.com for $150 or Whisky.club for $xx,xxx?
Pay-Click.com for $100 or Pay.click for $xx,xxx?
 
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L-L, N-N, L-N and N-L .coms are undervalued. Anything you see under $1000 - buy now. The market is finally catching up to them. Especially if you can get an old one.

And, for the most part, N-N-N and L-L-L, the doubles and triples are very valuable.

Short hyphen domains are rare and have value. How much value? Well, that remains to be seen.
 
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obviously they are worthless.
but some still pay top dollars for them
they really shouldn't so...

http://namebio.com/?s=wNygjNwEzM

hotel-reservation.com 209,916 USD 2009-09-23 Sedo
free-sms.de 162,150 USD 2010-01-26 Sedo
online-casino.de 144,900 USD 2012-06-20 Sedo
online-casinos.de 84,500 USD 2012-03-21 Sedo
18-wheeler.com 82,390 USD 2007-07-03 Moniker
blingblingdotcomandbling-blingdotcomandblingbling.co.uk 60,000 USD 2011-01-15 Sedo
faire-part.com 59,056 USD 2008-11-04 Sedo
online-games.com 48,000 USD 2012-04-04 Sedo
online-gambling.co.uk 44,657 USD 2006-11-07 Sedo
assurance-vie.com 43,500 USD 2009-08-02 Sedo
bike-components.com 42,705 USD 2012-11-07 Sedo
bike-components.com 42,577 USD 2012-10-26 Sedo
all-in.com 40,000 USD 2008-11-11 Sedo
web-design.com 38,498 USD 2013-11-06 Sedo
web-design.com 38,402 USD 2013-11-20 Sedo
cloud-computing.de 38,280 USD 2010-08-05 Sedo
opt-in.com 37,453 USD 2008-04-02 Sedo
entre-midi-et-2.com 35,100 USD 2010-09-15 Sedo
hotel-reservierung.de 34,510 USD 2009-09-09 Sedo
musik-base.de 34,501 USD 2010-02-24 Sedo
gold-ankauf.de 33,663 USD 2009-11-05 Sedo
blu-rayler.de 33,121 USD 2012-01-10 Sedo
online-casino.nl 31,654 USD 2009-01-20 Private
online-casinos.at 31,200 USD 2012-10-17 Sedo
permis-a-points.com 30,350 USD 2007-05-08 SnapNames
in-motion.com 30,000 USD 2012-04-04 Sedo
metzingen-outlet.de 29,750 USD 2011-06-30 Sedo
free-credit-report.com 28,250 USD 2007-10-31 drt auction
world-tourism.org 27,100 USD 2013-06-12 NameJet
juegos-gratis.com 25,900 USD 2010-02-10 Sedo
juegos-gratis.com 25,800 USD 2012-12-05 Sedo
black-jack.com 25,500 USD 2009-06-30 Sedo
myrtle-beach.com 25,250 USD 2006-04-04 SnapNames
musik-base.de 25,001 USD 2011-03-10 Sedo
e-liquid.com 25,000 USD 2012-03-07 Sedo
e-friends.pl 25,000 USD 2011-01-07 Sedo
music-videos.com 25,000 USD 2006-05-02 Afternic
telefonbuch-deutschland.de 24,375 USD 2008-11-18 Sedo
juegos-gratis.com 24,255 USD 2009-09-16 Sedo
travel-ticker.com 23,750 USD 2015-10-04 SnapNames
plan-net.com 23,580 USD 2012-05-09 Sedo
e-money.com 23,000 USD 2011-01-06 Sedo
new-york.info 22,864 USD 2006-03-28 Sedo
st-ericsson.com 22,500 USD 2011-01-30 Sedo
body-building.com 21,800 USD 2009-03-25 NameJet
blu-ray.net 20,640 USD 2008-04-29 Sedo
travail-emploi.com 20,457 USD 2006-04-04 Sedo
blu-ray.net 20,409 USD 2008-04-07 Sedo
online-autoboerse.de 20,250 USD 2014-07-30 Sedo
mass-ping.com 20,250 USD 2014-03-27 GoDaddy
 
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[Moreover, when hyphenated domains sell, it's never for very high sums (> 4 figures).]
LOL

[However, hyphenated domains can be popular in certains markets, .de is often quoted as an example. But the names should be German and in .de anyway.]

no not really....


free-sms.de 162,150 USD 2010-01-26 Sedo
online-casino.de 144,900 USD 2012-06-20 Sedo
online-casinos.de 84,500 USD 2012-03-21 Sedo
 
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Let me debunk quickly some things that have been said against the argument that dashed domains are currently undervalued by domainers.

- Trying to compare the number of sales between dashed and non-dashed domains has to take into account several factors including:
  • The relative number of each registered (far fewer dashed domains are registered than non-dashed domains)
  • The number of one word domains (there generally is no comparative dashed domains unless splitting the word by syllables or letters)
  • The relative numbers of dashed and non-dashed domains being offered on the aftermarket

There are other considerations as well but these three points bluntly demonstrate that a direct comparrison in numbers being sold on the aftermarket is nonsensical as a point in this discussion.

- Trying to say that dashed domain names are only suited to certain national markets and that they should be in that national markets native language:

  • This has already been shown to be a pointless argument by the number of English language dashed domains that have sold already on the aftermarket
  • It should also be noted that many small - medium sized US businesses are using dashed domains for their sole internet address (check out especially L-L-L.com domain names here for developed US websites)
  • This argument if taken literally would also mean that many NNN and LLL .com's have no or little value

Again there are other arguments which show this argument put forward is baseless.

- Now trying to demonstrate that a 2 or 3 word domain name can be easily read by capitalising the initial letter of each word is somehow supposed to prove that dashed domains have little or no value.

  • Well, this is a difficult argument to take seriously for it may just as well can be said that if you type the domain name in font size 100 that the domain name will stand out or if you print each word in a different colour it can also be easily read - this cannot be argued against but then again it has absolutely no bearing on the question being debated.

- Now the really strange point raised stating that dashed domains are only used 'by developers' and are now worthless as there are 'NOW' hundreds of domain suffixes:

  • Well I guess all those developed websites are 'under development' according to this point of view, but somehow I doubt that is the case.
  • Generally developers do not develop live sites and I know of none that say 'hey, let's spend $10 buy a dashed domain name so we can develop the site on it and then drop it' (I can imagine many developers laughing their socks off at this suggestion).
  • Can I point out there have been 100's of domain suffixes for over a decade, and also this point would mean that even non-dashed .com domains were now worthless because of exactly the same point.

As it is we now seem to be at a turning point for dashed domains, one that I think will revolutionise their value in an upward direction. Arguments against dashed domains being of value are clearly not standing up to scrutiny, this makes me think that whole swaithes of dashed domains will now be registered and start over the comming months to start appearing far more regularly in aftermarket sales reports.

Please note I am not saying that 'generally' the dashed .com domain is worth more than the non-dashed .com domain what I am hereby arguing is that in many many cases the dashed .com domain should be valued at least equivalent to the non-dashed .net domain.
 
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I don't own many dash names, but end users do buy them often when they cannot get without dash or just because they like it that way. I see lots of small companies and large companies with hyphen in their domain. Of course, it might have something to do with the availability when they look up for a name and registrar suggestions.

One of the hyphenated names I like is e-gy.com, short for energy ))
also have Q-I.com.
 
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Looking at some sales data. This pops out (no pun intended) as a killer example of a hyphen domain

c-section dot com 15,000 USD 2015-02-08
 
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Sorry for 3 relies in a row. I tried to do an edit and add the quotes but I had to start another reply to add the quote.

There aren't that many sales of short hyphenated domains reported because no one is selling. I think the price guide from 3Character.com is as good of a valuation on the short, rare ones as we can get.

From 3Character.com

L-L.com - $4500
N-N.com - $8000
L-N.com - $2500
N-L.com - $2500

Have there been any sales at all on N-N.com? I have two that I've had for a while now. Due to the current market I wouldn't sell a N-N.com for less that $100k! I've seen record sales of a couple NNNN.coms at over $200k (crazy). I know I'm crazy but that's they price it would take to pry a N-N.com out of my portfolio. I will pass them on to my daughter unless I get somewhere in that ballpark for them. If no one is selling any of them, then when one does pop up for sale, it's seems like that floor price may jump really quick.

Prices for L-L.com seem CRAZY LOW!!!! LLL.com are going for 10x that price. I would buy 10 L-L before a LLL.com. Just my 2 cents.
 
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Just picked up 8-8-8.cc on the drop. :)

To celebrate, when the sun comes up I'm driving into the Quarter and buying a hand grenade for breakfast. Followed by Company Burger for lunch. Yes, I love short hyphenated domains.
 
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sold an Aerial domain with a hyphen last friday, buyer from UK.. so they do definitely sell, especially when both keywords are covering a whole niche/industry/application..
 
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@artstar

sorry

that was not kind of me
and I regret my post
 
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sold at sedo :

re-display.com 5,000 USD
12. Februar 2016 18:53
 
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I don't know what will happen with the new tld's in the future, but with the availability of .coms diminishing every year you could speculate that hyphens would be the next natural choice over other extensions, even .nets or .orgs, and so I would think that in the future they might become more desirable and valuable.
 
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I think hyphenated domains is a smarter decision (if you have low budget).
Whisky-Club.com for $150 or Whisky.club for $xx,xxx?
Pay-Click.com for $100 or Pay.click for $xx,xxx?

I agree
 
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