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Are dashed domains undervalued by domainers?

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In my 10+ years of domaining I have often been mystified by the 'perceived wisdoms' within the domaining community, some had partial truths behind them whilst others obviously were almost totally without foundation and relied solely on repeating it often enough (usually by one or more of the big names in the domaining community) that they became ingrained in domaining lore in much the same way as an an urban myth develops. Today I am going to take on one of these perceived wisdoms, the lack of value of any domain containing a dash or hyphen.

It is evident that all the top domain names are registered in the .com suffix whether they be 2 character domains right through to domains made up of two, three, or even four words. Indeed the top domains are registered in almost all TLD's and ccTLD's. Most of these domains are perceived to have a value greater than the annual registration fee of the domain, yet as soon as a dash (hyphen) is introduced to a domain name it is then considered by many domainers to become almost worthless if not worthless, and this to a great extent is due to someone who I admire as generally talking a great deal of sense about domains, Rick Schwartz.

I have read numerous blogs and posts by Rick Schwartz over the years and although I am not sure it was he who first came up with the phrase 'radio test' the one thing for sure is that his usage of it has made it almost domaining lore when valuing a domain name - and this of course applies to dashed domain names. (I should say here that I use the term 'dash' or 'dashed' in preference to 'hyphen' or 'hyphened' much the same way that people have adapted to using the term 'dot' instead of 'full stop'). The 'radio test' is how people who might HEAR the domain on radio or aurally through some other means understand the address name. The inclusion of a 'dash' in a domain has for years been seen as failing the so-called 'radio test'.

Now there are several things to point out in favour of dashed domains that are generally ignored by many domainers, but due to lack of space per post (and the fact any readers of this might not want to read more than the minimum) I shall just list them.

  • Most people are introduced to a website either through search engines or through clicking links in articles or emails.
  • Most businesses are small to medium businesses who cannot afford the top dollar premium domains that mainly large conglomerates buy but still want a descriptive domain/s for their business, this applies to businesses throughout the world including a growing number in the USA who are utilising dashed domains.
  • Predictive addressing in the address bar means that when a user has visited a site the predictive address is supplied in the address bar, and this includes the 'dash' in the address (I vistit the Cel-Robox site and as soon as I start typing the address the predictive address comes up with Cel-robox.com).
  • Owners of non-dashed domains should for defensive reasons alone acquire the dashed version, whilst competitors might want the dashed version to link through to their own site or launch a competing site (here I refer to non-TM domain names).
  • In many instances a dashed .com domain name should (IMO) be worth at least the value of the undashed .net domain name.
  • Multiple uses of single dashes such as with L-L-L.com or N-N-N.com are easily readable and memorable visually, so again these are valuable domains (perhaps seen by the current uptrend in registrations and snaps occuring). Again these will not be as valuable as a LLL.com or NNN.com but should I think be at least as valuable as the corresponding LLL.net or NNN.net.
Anyone want to make this a discussion?
 
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I did a quick search on Namebio, 346,000 non-hyphenated sales and 11,000 hyphenated.

About 97% to 3%.

Not sure if this means we should avoid hyphenated domains, I know in Germany they are cool :xf.cool:
 
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I completely agree with your perspective. Over the past year I have seen a few "dashed" domains show up in some of the sales lists, and for decent $ too. I think you are right about the "perceived wisdoms". I see no logical reason why these domains should not have good value.
 
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@asfas - Remember that most domain sales are domainer to domainer, what would be interesting is how many domainer to end user sales there are. Also how many non-dashed domains and dashed domains are registered?

Also when talking about 'sales' what is the pricing of those sales? How many small to medium businesses are now using dashed domains as their web address? There is a preponderance of non-dashed websites but is this figure declining? The questions are numerous and why this discussion needs to be had.
 
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doubt i would reg any unless it was top notch terms in the class of real-estate, sporting-goods etc
 
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In the above search on Namebio, if we exclude most of domainer-to-domainer and short "liquid" sales, by setting price $1500+ and length 6+, the numbers become : 106,000 vs 3,000 , about the same 3% percentage for hyphenated domains.
 
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I agree as well. Dashed domains seem to be undervalued overall.

But it very much depends what market you are targeting. Whilst in Europe people can never be sure whether the name mentioned is dashed or not, in US people would intuitively type the non-dashed version.
And I guess that's where the influence on domainers and end-users came from.

IMO the longer the domain and the more words, the better with dash.
 
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Hyphenated domains are widely used in the UK and Germany ...
Sometimes they even prefer the hyphenated over the NON hyphenated one ...
But for investment purposes I believe it´s better stay away from them because they have absolutely NO resale value. It´s very dificult to close a sale for a hyphenated domain even if he contains good keywords.
I owned for many years 89-8.com a domain that I promoted, started paid auctions (with low reserve price)
and there was no way to get a $90 bid on it ... If there was any number instead of the hyphen (even 0 or 4) that would have been a $5K - $10K domain name ... just to give an example.
Conclusion: I have 0 hyphenated domains on my portfolio !!!

NOTE: the hyphenated version of a domain name will always loose type-in traffic to the NON hyphenated one ...
 
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I think when it comes to end users you might have a chance to sell if the price is right, the keywords are well matched to the business, and the dashed domain with those desirable keywords is a better alternative to what they already have
 
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In the above search on Namebio, if we exclude most of domainer-to-domainer and short "liquid" sales, by setting price $1500+ and length 6+, the numbers become : 106,000 vs 3,000 , about the same 3% percentage for hyphenated domains.

Now take out the one word domains (i.e. where there would not be a dashed domain equal) and also the domains not made up of actual 'words', what would the numbers be then?

Hyphenated domains are widely used in the UK and Germany ...
Sometimes they even prefer the hyphenated over the NON hyphenated one ...
But for investment purposes I believe it´s better stay away from them because they have absolutely NO resale value. It´s very dificult to close a sale for a hyphenated domain even if he contains good keywords.
I owned for many years 89-8.com a domain that I promoted, started paid auctions (with low reserve price)
and there was no way to get a $90 bid on it ... If there was any number instead of the hyphen (even 0 or 4) that would have been a $5K - $10K domain name ... just to give an example.
Conclusion: I have 0 hyphenated domains on my portfolio !!!

NOTE: the hyphenated version of a domain name will always loose type-in traffic to the NON hyphenated one ...

Interestingly the other day I found 18-18.com belongs to a certain well known domainer. ;)

Again it is all perspective with sales, the returns against the costs. Remember that there is only so many big companies who can buy 'the best' but there are a 1000 smaller companies who can buy 'second best' and still benefit their business.

I think when it comes to end users you might have a chance to sell if the price is right, the keywords are well matched to the business, and the dashed domain with those desirable keywords is a better alternative to what they already have

I agree totally.


To me it is seems that domainers now only look for individual bigger sales rather than multiple smaller sales, a bit strange as most domainers do not have the 'best domains' in their portfolios.

The thing is that fewer people are typing in a full address these days, and besides that a 50% or even a 5% correct type in including dash is worth it to so many companies who otherwise would get a big fat 0% of that type in anyway.
 
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doubt i would reg any unless it was top notch terms in the class of real-estate, sporting-goods etc

But then again you would register 'real-estate', 'sporting-goods',etc.

What about 'pet-store' for your local pet store? Or what about 'printer-ink-cartridge' for a store?
 
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But then again you would register 'real-estate', 'sporting-goods',etc.

What about 'pet-store' for your local pet store? Or what about 'printer-ink-cartridge' for a store?

I think 2 words with a dash works well. Beyond that I don't know.
 
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But then again you would register 'real-estate', 'sporting-goods',etc.

What about 'pet-store' for your local pet store? Or what about 'printer-ink-cartridge' for a store?


"Pet-store" seems like a nice term with big commercial value. "Printer-ink-cartridge"? Not so much. Imo, 2 words would be the abosolute limit when it comes to hyphens. Would drop the "cartridge-part". It seems a bit redundant too. "Printer-ink" seems okay though.
 
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I think 2 words with a dash works well. Beyond that I don't know.

"Pet-store" seems like a nice term with big commercial value. "Printer-ink-cartridge"? Not so much. Imo, 2 words would be the abosolute limit when it comes to hyphens. Would drop the "cartridge-part". It seems a bit redundant too. "Printer-ink" seems okay though.



The 'printer-ink-cartridge' was just an example (I have an empty one here on my desk - LOL).

Just like with undashed domains where the hierarchy is generally one word domains are better than two word domains so the same general rule applies in my opinion that two word dashed domain is better than three word dashed domain.

I think with 3 letter or number domains are 'generally' better with double dashes (L-L-L or N-N-N) rather than a single dash (L-LL / LL-L or N-NN / NN-N), of course there can be exceptions such as with 18-18 which is much better than 1-8-1-8. Here I think the principle is how would the undashed number be said or read, which I contend would be 'eighteen dash eighteen' most commonly.
 
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I think with 3 letter or number domains are 'generally' better with double dashes (L-L-L or N-N-N) rather than a single dash (L-LL / LL-L or N-NN / NN-N), of course there can be exceptions such as with 18-18 which is much better than 1-8-1-8. Here I think the principle is how would the undashed number be said or read, which I contend would be 'eighteen dash eighteen' most commonly.

I agree.
 
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I don't know what will happen with the new tld's in the future, but with the availability of .coms diminishing every year you could speculate that hyphens would be the next natural choice over other extensions, even .nets or .orgs, and so I would think that in the future they might become more desirable and valuable.
 
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I think words that are spelled with a hyphen could justify a hyphenated domain, like bail-in.com
 
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I love hyphenated domain names

I think hyphenated domains is a smarter decision (if you have low budget).
Whisky-Club.com for $150 or Whisky.club for $xx,xxx?
Pay-Click.com for $100 or Pay.click for $xx,xxx?
 
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I think hyphenated domains is a smarter decision (if you have low budget).
Whisky-Club.com for $150 or Whisky.club for $xx,xxx?
Pay-Click.com for $100 or Pay.click for $xx,xxx?

I agree
 
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L-L, N-N, L-N and N-L .coms are undervalued. Anything you see under $1000 - buy now. The market is finally catching up to them. Especially if you can get an old one.

And, for the most part, N-N-N and L-L-L, the doubles and triples are very valuable.

Short hyphen domains are rare and have value. How much value? Well, that remains to be seen.
 
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obviously they are worthless.
but some still pay top dollars for them
they really shouldn't so...

http://namebio.com/?s=wNygjNwEzM

hotel-reservation.com 209,916 USD 2009-09-23 Sedo
free-sms.de 162,150 USD 2010-01-26 Sedo
online-casino.de 144,900 USD 2012-06-20 Sedo
online-casinos.de 84,500 USD 2012-03-21 Sedo
18-wheeler.com 82,390 USD 2007-07-03 Moniker
blingblingdotcomandbling-blingdotcomandblingbling.co.uk 60,000 USD 2011-01-15 Sedo
faire-part.com 59,056 USD 2008-11-04 Sedo
online-games.com 48,000 USD 2012-04-04 Sedo
online-gambling.co.uk 44,657 USD 2006-11-07 Sedo
assurance-vie.com 43,500 USD 2009-08-02 Sedo
bike-components.com 42,705 USD 2012-11-07 Sedo
bike-components.com 42,577 USD 2012-10-26 Sedo
all-in.com 40,000 USD 2008-11-11 Sedo
web-design.com 38,498 USD 2013-11-06 Sedo
web-design.com 38,402 USD 2013-11-20 Sedo
cloud-computing.de 38,280 USD 2010-08-05 Sedo
opt-in.com 37,453 USD 2008-04-02 Sedo
entre-midi-et-2.com 35,100 USD 2010-09-15 Sedo
hotel-reservierung.de 34,510 USD 2009-09-09 Sedo
musik-base.de 34,501 USD 2010-02-24 Sedo
gold-ankauf.de 33,663 USD 2009-11-05 Sedo
blu-rayler.de 33,121 USD 2012-01-10 Sedo
online-casino.nl 31,654 USD 2009-01-20 Private
online-casinos.at 31,200 USD 2012-10-17 Sedo
permis-a-points.com 30,350 USD 2007-05-08 SnapNames
in-motion.com 30,000 USD 2012-04-04 Sedo
metzingen-outlet.de 29,750 USD 2011-06-30 Sedo
free-credit-report.com 28,250 USD 2007-10-31 drt auction
world-tourism.org 27,100 USD 2013-06-12 NameJet
juegos-gratis.com 25,900 USD 2010-02-10 Sedo
juegos-gratis.com 25,800 USD 2012-12-05 Sedo
black-jack.com 25,500 USD 2009-06-30 Sedo
myrtle-beach.com 25,250 USD 2006-04-04 SnapNames
musik-base.de 25,001 USD 2011-03-10 Sedo
e-liquid.com 25,000 USD 2012-03-07 Sedo
e-friends.pl 25,000 USD 2011-01-07 Sedo
music-videos.com 25,000 USD 2006-05-02 Afternic
telefonbuch-deutschland.de 24,375 USD 2008-11-18 Sedo
juegos-gratis.com 24,255 USD 2009-09-16 Sedo
travel-ticker.com 23,750 USD 2015-10-04 SnapNames
plan-net.com 23,580 USD 2012-05-09 Sedo
e-money.com 23,000 USD 2011-01-06 Sedo
new-york.info 22,864 USD 2006-03-28 Sedo
st-ericsson.com 22,500 USD 2011-01-30 Sedo
body-building.com 21,800 USD 2009-03-25 NameJet
blu-ray.net 20,640 USD 2008-04-29 Sedo
travail-emploi.com 20,457 USD 2006-04-04 Sedo
blu-ray.net 20,409 USD 2008-04-07 Sedo
online-autoboerse.de 20,250 USD 2014-07-30 Sedo
mass-ping.com 20,250 USD 2014-03-27 GoDaddy
 
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I don't think hyphenated domains are undervalued. The reported sales data available clearly indicate you are less likely to sell hyphenated domains.

Moreover, when hyphenated domains sell, it's never for very high sums (> 4 figures).

But for investment purposes I believe it´s better stay away from them because they have absolutely NO resale value. It´s very dificult to close a sale for a hyphenated domain even if he contains good keywords.
I actually think that end users are more likely to buy an hyphenated domains when it's available for regfee, because the non-hyphenated domain is already taken. Are they going to buy an hyphenated domain from you, even it's is priced competitively vs the non-hyphenated counterpart ? Not very likely overall...

However, hyphenated domains can be popular in certains markets, .de is often quoted as an example. But the names should be German and in .de anyway. Since ccTLDs are specialized markets, most domainers (especially the Americans) are not in a good position to pick the right domain names, because they don't have good grasp of the language and lack insight into the local market.

Most people are introduced to a website either through search engines or through clicking links in articles or emails.
One thing I like to do is to use capitalization in print to better detach keywords. Example: www.BuyThisDomain.com
 
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[Moreover, when hyphenated domains sell, it's never for very high sums (> 4 figures).]
LOL

[However, hyphenated domains can be popular in certains markets, .de is often quoted as an example. But the names should be German and in .de anyway.]

no not really....


free-sms.de 162,150 USD 2010-01-26 Sedo
online-casino.de 144,900 USD 2012-06-20 Sedo
online-casinos.de 84,500 USD 2012-03-21 Sedo
 
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