poll After expiry should a registrar give a domain back to the pool?

[frank-germany]

As for managing the expiry stream, each day I have to decide which domains to let go to Snapnames after the grace period. This is a very efficient process done through a single screen with some analytics.

On some days, the review involves a lot of names with really no time to research them. It is a quick gut decision of whether or not to let a name to go to the wolves or to warehouse them.

so there was a discussion going on
what a registrar should be doing when a domain drops

1) should they be allowed to keep it for their own use and exploitation?
2) should they always give it back to the pool?

 

[Keith]

You're pretty loose with your words here. I'm curious if you've read the RRA you agreed to at any of the registrars you think stole from you.



Registrars ARE in business to generate profit, just like you. You're a domainer. You buy domains for one price and, basically, try to con someone else into believing it's worth more than what you paid for it. How is that any better?



I'm also curious if you read the contracts you agreed to when registering your domains.



I could agree on this. Having 1000 registrar credentials is pretty excessive. BUT, it's their money and they paid for them. I'm not sure if they paid the same price everyone else did, though.



Is it possibly because they had no value, which would be why you didn't renew them to begin with?



I think this has been covered already, here, but most registries set auto-renew by default. This means the registrar must send an explicit delete command in order to cancel that auto-renew. As previously said, the registrar pays for the renewal unless canceled.



Registrars cherry pick the same way domainers cherry pick through available domains or their own portfolios. It's not some sort of deceptive practice. You agree to terms when you register a domain and, by not renewing, give the registrar the right to do as they wish. If you don't agree with such terms, maybe the better choice would be to find a registrar whose terms align better with your ideas.



Your renewal timelines are not arbitrary. As I've mentioned to others, simply read the legal descriptions you've agreed to. Making a profit is exactly why registrars are in business. How much money do you think a registrar makes on your domain registrations, renewals and transfers? Have you ever tried to run a registrar business? I assume the answer is no and, therefore, calling a registrar "greedy" for fulfilling their fiduciary duty of making a profit is a bit irresponsible.

Some registrars play dirty, some don’t. Keeping expired inventory for yourself is only for financial gain. Let’s not pretend it benefits customers or the domain ecosystem.

It also opens the door to question BO systems at certain places like epik. Maybe my BO wasn’t awarded because they decided to selfishly keep the expired domain.

There’s a good reason why I’ll never use certain registrars...it’s because they’re not honest. Hide behind ICANN all you want, we see through the bullshit.

 

[kam]

You're pretty loose with your words here. I'm curious if you've read the RRA you agreed to at any of the registrars you think stole from you.


Your renewal timelines are not arbitrary. As I've mentioned to others, simply read the legal descriptions you've agreed to. Making a profit is exactly why registrars are in business. How much money do you think a registrar makes on your domain registrations, renewals and transfers? Have you ever tried to run a registrar business? I assume the answer is no and, therefore, calling a registrar "greedy" for fulfilling their fiduciary duty of making a profit is a bit irresponsible.

You have to understand that legitimate is not equal to morals.
The reason our society have legal, is use to maintain "bottom line in moral", but something it just goes opposite direction and crazy things happened.

Man Loses Home After Failing To Pay $8.41 In Property Taxes, property is estimated to be worth nearly $130,000.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyp...ng-to-pay-841-in-property-taxes/#3e312e1a2a20

 

[frank-germany]

I could agree on this. Having 1000 registrar credentials is pretty excessive.

https://www.icann.org/registrar-reports/accreditation-qualified-list.html


1200

 

[DanSanchez]

I find some comments quite naive. I have been a proponent of letting expiry stream alone for more than a decade after experiencing huge losses over the years, namely at Godaddy. Since I joined Epik, we formed NameLiquidate to fill a PRE-REDEMPTION solution that would essentially give registrants full control of their own expiry stream regardless of the registrar in play.

Fast is, you cannot win against HugeDomains/DropCatch systems in a post-drop system. They successfully created a system that profits from abandoned assets. Props to them. Some registrars also created systems that profit on a pre-redemption process, I don't agree with the involuntary systems, like Godaddy or "keeping domains."

Since we are all in this "for financial gain" (unless you're a pro-bono domainer of course, those that do things free of charge and gift all domains at cost.) Instead of passing the buck to a registrar for utilizing your abandoned assets, I personally took responsibility to build NameLiquidate as a competitive tool to increase our individual power over the assets you will no longer be utilizing.

If you refuse to understand the basics of domain asset costs for registrars and you call yourself a domainer, perhaps don't. Your domains cost capital after day 15 post expiration, that is a fact. You can accept that or not.

For those of us who understand and want to combat the lack of control, let's continue working towards competitive solutions instead of arguing with our feelings about how unfair the world is. The market takes, the market provides, you vote with your capital on which solutions work best.

 

[Nick]

You have to understand that legitimate is not equal to morals.
Our society use legal is use to maintain "bottom line in moral", but something it just goes opposite direction and crazy things happened.

Man Loses Home After Failing To Pay $8.41 In Property Taxes, property is estimated to be worth nearly $130,000.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyp...ng-to-pay-841-in-property-taxes/#3e312e1a2a20

Sir/ma'am, please step down from your high-horse.

 

[frank-germany]

Since I joined Epik, we formed NameLiquidate to fill a PRE-REDEMPTION solution that would essentially give registrants full control of their own expiry stream regardless of the registrar in play.

the problem here is the lack of eyeballs

 

[Samer]

Godaddy expired auctions & Hugedomains

Worst “morals”... by any registrar.

Samer

 

[Keith]

I find some comments quite naive. I have been a proponent of letting expiry stream alone for more than a decade after experiencing huge losses over the years, namely at Godaddy. Since I joined Epik, we formed NameLiquidate to fill a PRE-REDEMPTION solution that would essentially give registrants full control of their own expiry stream regardless of the registrar in play.

Fast is, you cannot win against HugeDomains/DropCatch systems in a post-drop system. They successfully created a system that profits from abandoned assets. Props to them. Some registrars also created systems that profit on a pre-redemption process, I don't agree with the involuntary systems, like Godaddy or "keeping domains."

Since we are all in this "for financial gain" (unless you're a pro-bono domainer of course, those that do things free of charge and gift all domains at cost.) Instead of passing the buck to a registrar for utilizing your abandoned assets, I personally took responsibility to build NameLiquidate as a competitive tool to increase our individual power over the assets you will no longer be utilizing.

If you refuse to understand the basics of domain asset costs for registrars and you call yourself a domainer, perhaps don't. Your domains cost capital after day 15 post expiration, that is a fact. You can accept that or not.

For those of us who understand and want to combat the lack of control, let's continue working towards competitive solutions instead of arguing with our feelings about how unfair the world is. The market takes, the market provides, you vote with your capital on which solutions work best.

We want registrars to operate with integrity and implement their policies the exact same way, for every registrant and domain name on the platform.

Epik does not do that. Case closed.

 

[Nick]

We want registrars to operate with integrity and implement their policies the exact same way, for every registrant and domain name on the platform.

Epik does not do that. Case closed.

And at the same time, many people also want them (registrars) to operate on a ~5% margin, grossing $0.47 on an $8.50 sale.

 

[Samer]

And at the same time, many people also want them (registrars) to operate on a ~5% margin, grossing $0.47 on an $8.50 sale.

Shhh he’s one of the distinguished with 500 at Godaddy, he doesnt care they charge $18 .com only pick on little registrar for most trivial

 

[Keith]

And at the same time, many people also want them (registrars) to operate on a ~5% margin, grossing $0.47 on an $8.50 sale.

Nobody forced them to start a business in the domain space, they chose that path.

 

[Keith]

Shhh he’s one of the distinguished with 500 at Godaddy, he doesnt care they charge $18 .com only pick on little registrar for most trivial

I pay $8.50 at godaddy. Nice try though.

 

[DanSanchez]

We want registrars to operate with integrity and implement their policies the exact same way, for every registrant and domain name on the platform.

Epik does not do that. Case closed.

Keith, you will soon be able to opt-in to send all your expired domains automatically and without exceptions. I believe that is a step forward in the right direction and I have pushed for that to be the case at other registrars. In fact, we spent a large amount of resources and capital to implement the API for NameLiquidate last week. If you want to receive 91% of the proceeds of your expired domain stream without lifting a finger, as your registrar to contact me. We can negotiate with them accordingly.

Until then, you shouldn't just close the door on a practical solution you don't yet understand.

the problem here is the lack of eyeballs

Right you are, from the start to today we have had 2 months of practical market activity. Meaning inventory is flowing and those smart enough to watch it has gotten insanely good deals.

Nobody forced them to start a business in the domain space, they chose that path.

Exactly what I say about domainers choosing to relinquish their domains the easy way. Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to carry your capital requirements, thus the domains you let expire are no longer yours to worry about.

 

[Keith]

Keith, you will soon be able to opt-in to send all your expired domains automatically and without exceptions. I believe that is a step forward in the right direction and I have pushed for that to be the case at other registrars. In fact, we spent a large amount of resources and capital to implement the API for NameLiquidate last week. If you want to receive 91% of the proceeds of your expired domain stream without lifting a finger, as your registrar to contact me. We can negotiate with them accordingly.

Until then, you shouldn't just close the door on a practical solution you don't yet understand.


Right you are, from the start to today we have had 2 months of practical market activity. Meaning inventory is flowing and those smart enough to watch it has gotten insanely good deals.


Exactly what I say about domainers choosing to relinquish their domains the easy way. Nobody is forcing you or anyone else to carry your capital requirements, thus the domains you let expire are no longer yours to worry about.

You are missing the point.

I don’t care about my expired domains which is why they are expired. I might care about yours though, which is why each registrar should operate the exact same way, across the board. It only benefits them to keep expired inventory, without competing on the open market like 99.9% of investors do.

 

[frank-germany]

Nobody forced them to start a business in the domain space, they chose that path.

nobody told them to offer discounts either
( at least not at the beginning of the epic promotion )

 

[frank-germany]

Right you are, from the start to today we have had 2 months of practical market activity. Meaning inventory is flowing and those smart enough to watch it has gotten insanely good deal.

not the seller

 

[DanSanchez]

You are missing the point.

I don’t care about my expired domains which is why they are expired. I might care about yours though, which is why each registrar should operate the exact same way, across the board. It only benefits them to keep expired inventory, without competing on the open market like 99.9% of investors do.

I didn't miss the point, but I believe you did. NameLiquidate is a great buyers market right now. You just dont consider it a good option yet. I would argue it's the best suited buyers market in existence.

You don't get to compete currently, DropCatch gets most of the inventory and you are likely to overpay. We offer a great alternative that caps your overall acquisition cost.

not the seller

Well, even at $9 you may recover 100% of your capital investment. That is a win for any seller that was going to let go of that asset. But things have improved dramatically with the bidding system, I have lost the majority of my personal bids to folks that snapped things up at a higher price. The floor is becoming more competitive daily.

 

[frank-germany]

I didn't miss the point, but I believe you did. NameLiquidate is a great buyers market right now. You just dont consider it a good option yet. I would argue it's the best suited buyers market in existence.

You don't get to compete currently, DropCatch gets most of the inventory and you are likely to overpay. We offer a great alternative that caps your overall acquisition cost.



Well, even at $9 you may recover 100% of your capital investment. That is a win for any seller that was going to let go of that asset. But things have improved dramatically with the bidding system, I have lost the majority of my personal bids to folks that snapped things up at a higher price. The floor is becoming more competitive daily.

I'm not complaining I got a great domain myself

but that sale cost me lot more than a handreg
so epik is the winner in regard to the actual deal

still, it's not an answer to the question of the OP

 

[7363824]

We want registrars to operate with integrity and implement their policies the exact same way, for every registrant and domain name on the platform.

Epik does not do that. Case closed.

Why do you say that? Because the staff are domainers too? IMO that's a good thing, they understand my needs as a domainer then.

I know they are actually quite forward thinking. Take my quote from Rob earlier about revenue sharing from the expiry stream, you think any other registrar would do that? Do you think GoDaddy would do that...idk but I think its doubtful. IMO so long as they bid though NL and don't use their systems access to use non public info like the current bids I think allowing Rob and other Epik staff participate in NL is great! Especially if they buy my domains there, lol. Back when bc30 happened NL wasn't around so maybe there was a bit of unfair advantage. Oh well life isn't fair then you die. I guess you could call that cynical but why let that bother me where there are bigger problems in this world and when Epik is leveling the playing field today with NL. The past is the past and the future of expired domains seems brighter with Epik than anywhere else I know of.

 

[Name Trader]

On 21st Nov 2017 GoDaddy announced that registrants lose their rights to renew domains after 30 days. I don't know if this is still true with the new ToS I quoted above dated 2020-02-06. Because the latest ToS implies you can renew up to Day 42 provided the domain has not had any bids. Can some GoDaddy Auctions Guru please clarify?

So it's still not clear for me what the current situation is. But that Nov 21st 2017 Announcement says you lose any rights to renew your domain after 30 days. So at that time you got 30 days only to renew your domain. Full Stop. Wow! From 42 days down to 30 days. So that's a whole 15 days taken (STOLEN) from our rights to renewal our domains. When is this erosion ever going to stop?

 

[7363824]

On 21st Nov 2017 GoDaddy announced that registrants lose their rights to renew domains after 30 days. I don't know if this is still true with the the ToS I quoted above dated 2020-02-06. Because the latest ToS implies you can renew up to Day 42 provided the domain has not had any bids. Can some GoDaddy Auctions Guru please clarify?

So it's still not clear for me what the current situation is. But that 21st 2017 Announcement says you lose any rights to renew your domain after 30 days. So at that time you got 30 days only to renew your domain. Full Stop. Wow! From 42 days down to 30 days. So that's a whole 15 days taken (STOLEN) from our rights to renewal our domains. When is this erosion ever going to stop?

I'm not one to defend GoDaddy. Unusually I'm quite critical of them especially when it comes to their lackluster support, domainer unfriendly policies and broken control panel.

That said nothing is stolen here. You are NOT entitled to any of the 45 day grace period! Yet they are giving you some. Turn on auto renew and get over it

 

[Keith]

On 21st Nov 2017 GoDaddy announced that registrants lose their rights to renew domains after 30 days. I don't know if this is still true with the new ToS I quoted above dated 2020-02-06. Because the latest ToS implies you can renew up to Day 42 provided the domain has not had any bids. Can some GoDaddy Auctions Guru please clarify?

So it's still not clear for me what the current situation is. But that 21st 2017 Announcement says you lose any rights to renew your domain after 30 days. So at that time you got 30 days only to renew your domain. Full Stop. Wow! From 42 days down to 30 days. So that's a whole 15 days taken (STOLEN) from our rights to renewal our domains. When is this erosion ever going to stop?

I think it comes down to ICANN putting strict rules in place. The system as it sits is broken.

A few rules that should change -

1. Under no circumstance can a registrar renew a domain on behalf of a client.

2. Under no circumstance can a registrar keep any domain that they haven’t registered as new, or purchased on the open market.

3. Every registrar should have to operate with the exact same set of rules. Meaning, the expiry process should be exactly the same regardless of where a domain is held.

If people truly want the industry to advance, the playing field needs to be level across the board. Every registrar should have the exact same set of rules and wavering from those rules should result in severe fines.

 

[7363824]

I think it comes down to ICANN putting strict rules in place. The system as it sits is broken.

A few rules that should change -

1. Under no circumstance can a registrar renew a domain on behalf of a client.

2. Under no circumstance can a registrar keep any domain that they haven’t registered as new, or purchased on the open market.

3. Every registrar should have to operate with the exact same set of rules. Meaning, the expiry process should be exactly the same regardless of where a domain is held.

If people truly want the industry to advance, the playing field needs to be level across the board. Every registrar should have the exact same set of rules and wavering from those rules should result in severe fines.

Likely result, domains go directly to redemption grace period upon expiration. Many won't pay the reactivation fee. Huge Domains portfolio grows like crazy.

 

[Name Trader]

I think it comes down to ICANN putting strict rules in place. The system as it sits is broken.

A few rules that should change -

1. Under no circumstance can a registrar renew a domain on behalf of a client.

2. Under no circumstance can a registrar keep any domain that they haven’t registered as new, or purchased on the open market.

3. Every registrar should have to operate with the exact same set of rules. Meaning, the expiry process should be exactly the same regardless of where a domain is held.

If people truly want the industry to advance, the playing field needs to be level across the board. Every registrar should have the exact same set of rules and wavering from those rules should result in severe fines.

Agreed, Keith. Every registrar should all be abiding by the same rules regarding expiry. Not as it is now. Where every registrar makes it up as the go along. I for one don't register my domains so that some registrar can manipulate their ToS to take my domains from me early. Just so they can circumvent the ownership process and auction my domains for their own profit. I would prefer that auctioning of expiring domains should be eliminated. I personally think it is a corrupt and corrupting process. But realistically, that is never going to happen. Registrars have all the lobbying power with ICANN. Us domainers don't have much of any lobbying power over ICANN. Be we can dream

 

[Keith]

Likely result, domains go directly to redemption grace period upon expiration. Many won't pay the reactivation fee. Huge Domains portfolio grows like crazy.

At least they allow customers to place BO and compete for dropped domains. Nobody wins when epik keeps a domain, except epik.