poll After expiry should a registrar give a domain back to the pool?

[frank-germany]

As for managing the expiry stream, each day I have to decide which domains to let go to Snapnames after the grace period. This is a very efficient process done through a single screen with some analytics.

On some days, the review involves a lot of names with really no time to research them. It is a quick gut decision of whether or not to let a name to go to the wolves or to warehouse them.

so there was a discussion going on
what a registrar should be doing when a domain drops

1) should they be allowed to keep it for their own use and exploitation?
2) should they always give it back to the pool?

 

[7363824]

I found the post I mentioned earlier.

@Mod Team Bravo raised a topic today about revenue share on the whole expiry stream at Epik. It is a good question and it prompted a thought about how domain owners could opt in for expiry monetization:

NameLiquidate - Immediate after grace period ends: Revenue-share 91%

Snapnames - Day 36: Revenue-share 50%

Daily Diamonds- Day 44: Revenue share 50%

Is that a game-changer?

Are there other places we should be monetizing the expiry stream?

We did sign up with ExpiredDomains.net as an affiliate though their impact has been nominal and I find their UX to be very confusing. NameInvestors.com will likely be much better in due course.

Anyway, since the NP Mods apparently find this topic interesting, happy to discuss.

 

[Keith]

Show attachment 146354

Ah, it updated 2/27 after the auction ended and the customer paid.

 

[7363824]

Ah, it updated 2/27 after the auction ended and the customer paid.

I obviously didn't see what it said before 2/27 but when I search for one currently listed it shows a 2021 expiry date.

 

[frank-germany]

Also, I dont think it's fair to quote @Rob Monster and tag the thread Epik as if it is something they do against the established norms.

it's just a reference to the source in namepros
where that question started to be discussed

 

[7363824]

it's just a reference to the source in namepros
where that question started to be discussed

Thanks for the clairification.

I get it though. I don't like it but I don't like the alternative of HD / DC getting everything more. But I think one goes too far to call it theft. Actually I think Rob is onto a great idea sharing expiry auction revenue as he mentioned in a post I quoted here earlier.

 

[Keith]

Thanks for the clairification.

I get it though. I don't like it but I don't like the alternative of HD / DC getting everything more. But I think one goes too far to call it theft. Actually I think Rob is onto a great idea sharing expiry auction revenue as he mentioned in a post I quoted here earlier.

You’d rather the registrar keep domains like bc30.com, instead of the asset going to the open market?

 

[7363824]

You’d rather the registrar keep domains like bc30.com, instead of the asset going to the open market?

There is no open market if it drops. Huge Domains/Drop Catch dominate the drop. I'd rather it goto auction where the playing field is more level.

 

[Keith]

There is no open market if it drops. Huge Domains/Drop Catch dominate the drop. I'd rather it goto auction where the playing field is leveled.

Dropcatch does auction domains on a level field. At least the general public has a chance to BO and compete on platforms like dropcatch.

What Epik and Netsol do is simply cherry pick expired domains to keep for financial gain, without any competition. That’s wrong.

 

[7363824]

Dropcatch does auction domains on a level field. At least the general public has a chance to BO and compete on platforms like dropcatch.

What Epik and Netsol do is simply cherry pick expired domains to keep for financial gain, without any competition. That’s wrong.

Unless it's a good name they want to add to the Huge Domains portfolio.

And what exactly do you mean by
What Epik and Netsol do is simply cherry pick expired domains to keep for financial gain, without any competition?

 

[Name Trader]

OK.It seems like nobody knows what the Redemption period is at GoDaddy. So to help everyone out I looked it up in their ToS: Domain Registration Agreement Revised 2020-02-06 Section 3B Quoting the most relevant piece....

If you do not reimburse GoDaddy for the renewal during the Renewal Grace Period your domain name will be placed on Hold and flagged for deletion after which you may have up to a 30-day redemption period to redeem your domain name, provided that your domain name is not subject to an expired domain name auction bid and you pay GoDaddy a Redemption fee.

The Renewal Grace Period is from expiry to up to 12 days. So this doesn't actually tell you the whole truth. Because the last half sentence say "provided that your domain name is not subject to an expired domain name auction bid and you pay GoDaddy a Redemption fee. So it's less than 12+30=42 days. So you get to renew ONLY if there are no bids on your domain. When you pay the regfee plus $80 Redemption Fee. Auctions are for 10 days. So if your domain has a bid on Day 1. Your domain is gone on date of auction start. Anybody know this date offhand.

 

[Keith]

Unless it's a good name they want to add to the Huge Domains portfolio.

And what exactly do you mean by
What Epik and Netsol do is simply cherry pick expired domains to keep for financial gain, without any competition?

Go read the bc30 thread. Rob admitted that they take expired domains and keep them. Netsol does the same thing. I’ve seen it over and over.

Epik doesn’t even honor their BO service. I realize now that it’s because they keep domains, instead of using a standard and fair process across the board.

 

[Name Trader]

But it doesn't take a brain surgeon to understand they are taking your renewal date to be to flexible depending on the having no-bid on the domain. If it's bid on, which is not under your control, your domain is toast as far as you ownership goes. It doesn't really matter. They give you the right to renew only up the point when a bid is placed on your domain.That's THEFT in my book, wrapped up in wording the best lawyers in the world have designed. It used to be always 42 days for renewal or transfer, if at day 42 you renewed, you paid regfee plus $80, if you transferred on Day 42 you paid only the regfee to the new registrar. I did a lot of those late transfers back-in-the-day

 

[Rob Monster]

There is no open market if it drops. Huge Domains/Drop Catch dominate the drop. I'd rather it goto auction where the playing field is more level.

Ryan seems to be the wisest guy in the room today.

 

[Name Trader]

 

[frank-germany]

Ryan seems to be the wisest guy in the room today.

that is a not appropriate answer as:

1) not all domains are caught by dropcatch

2) and that doesn't make a good reason
for the discussed behavior either

 

[Keith]

Ryan seems to be the wisest guy in the room today.

@Ryan217 said, from the post you quoted, he’d rather see domains go to auction where the playing field is level.

Explain to us how you holding BC30, or any expired domain, is leveling the field. Seems more like it’s for personal gain.

 

[DomainRecap]

If there weren't already tons of for-profit drop catching businesses out there grabbing up all the expired domains, I might side with "let go" crowd, but in the current environment, there is absolutely no reason to limit a company like GoDaddy from making a buck when the alternative is another reseller would just make that same buck.

It's like saying that we need to get rid of the Mafia, but that the Triads and Hells Angels are just fine.

 

[Mister Funsky]

It's like saying we need to get rid of the Mafia, but that the Triads and Hells Angels are just fine.

My first out loud laugh of the day...thank you...I needed a chuckle!

 

[Rob Monster]

Candidly, I don't think anyone is doing more to democratize access to expiry stream than Epik.

The domain we are talking about in another thread was a domain that expired in 2012. Fast-forward to 2020, and NameLiquidate.com is live with expired names going for as little as $9.

In 2020, there is no reason for registrants to let decent expired names go un-monetized.

 

[frank-germany]

Candidly, I don't think anyone is doing more to democratize access to expiry stream than Epik.

The domain we are talking about in another thread was a domain that expired in 2012. Fast-forward to 2020, and NameLiquidate.com is live with expired names going for as little as $9.

In 2020, there is no reason for registrants to let decent expired names go un-monetized.

@Rob Monster

that is pure propaganda again

 

[Keith]

Candidly, I don't think anyone is doing more to democratize access to expiry stream than Epik.

The domain we are talking about in another thread was a domain that expired in 2012. Fast-forward to 2020, and NameLiquidate.com is live with expired names going for as little as $9.

In 2020, there is no reason for registrants to let decent expired names go un-monetized.

This has zero to do with what this thread is about. I’ll ask again...

How do you benefit the ecosystem when you keep expired domains for yourself? You don’t, that’s the answer. But you do stand to personally gain in a financial sense.

 

[Name Trader]

If there weren't already tons of for-profit drop catching businesses out there grabbing up all the expired domains, I might side with "let go" crowd, but in the current environment, there is absolutely no reason to limit a company like GoDaddy from making a buck when the alternative is another reseller would just make that same buck.

It's like saying that we need to get rid of the Mafia, but that the Triads and Hells Angels are just fine.

I'm not picking on GoDaddy. Pretty much all the Registrars have stolen time from us over the years. I'm only using them to show how they have eroded our rights over time (=Theft), by restricting the dates for our renewals/transfers. I use them as a good example of how they have done this by revising their ToS.

 

[kam]

It was never envisioned that the Registrars would steal the domain away from their rightful owners before the 45 days were up. After which they were supposed to go back to the registry to await them drop. Registrars have stolen time from their own customers 45 days, so they can take and sell these expiring domains and pocket the cash. It's dishonest. How did it come to this? Well. Nobody got any morals anymore, is the problem. Chasing the almighty dollar. All these pre-45 day auction should be banned (but that will never happen). Who would benefit, if by some magic, it came true? Why, DropCatch of course. They can catch almost anything they desire with their infrastructure. Leaving SnapNames/NameJet grab a bone once in a while

In the good old days. We discussed about whether it's legitimate or morals to deprived the registrant to enjoy the full redemption grace period(2006-2008).

At that point of time, registrar set a bottom line and they will not take away registrant's domain until it's fall into redemption period. They use redemption period to deemed registrant not going to renewal their domain.

Time goes on and all people seems to forget the bottom line they set. While Registrar getting greedy and they can make more profit by shorten the renewal grace period again, that's why all happening.

 

[frank-germany]

In the good old days. We discussed about whether it's legitimate or morals to deprived the registrant to enjoy the full redemption grace period(2006-2008).

At that point of time, registrar set a bottom line and they will not take away registrant's domain until it's fall into redemption period. They use redemption period to deemed registrant not going to renewal their domain.

Time goes on and all people seems to forget the bottom line they set. While Registrar getting greedy and they can make more profit by shorten the renewal grace period again, that's why all happening.

exactly

I had names transferred out of GoDaddy that were long expired
was no problem to generate an auth code and transfer them

nowadays, at epik and others like namesilo
they can't expect the date of expiry
so they can verify the traffic aka value

 

[Nick]

Registrars have stolen time from their own customers 45 days, so they can take and sell these expiring domains and pocket the cash. It's dishonest.

You're pretty loose with your words here. I'm curious if you've read the RRA you agreed to at any of the registrars you think stole from you.

Chasing the almighty dollar.

Registrars ARE in business to generate profit, just like you. You're a domainer. You buy domains for one price and, basically, try to con someone else into believing it's worth more than what you paid for it. How is that any better?

Registrars shouldn’t steal property that absolutely does not belong to them. It is their job to act as a holding tank for assets that belong to the customer.

I'm also curious if you read the contracts you agreed to when registering your domains.

But it would also be nice if dripcatch didn't have an advantage at the drop that is cost prohibitive for most to compete with them.

I could agree on this. Having 1000 registrar credentials is pretty excessive. BUT, it's their money and they paid for them. I'm not sure if they paid the same price everyone else did, though.

I have many domains registered for many years when registrars did not steal any time from the registrant.

Is it possibly because they had no value, which would be why you didn't renew them to begin with?

The registrar doesn’t pay the registry until the customer renews.

I think this has been covered already, here, but most registries set auto-renew by default. This means the registrar must send an explicit delete command in order to cancel that auto-renew. As previously said, the registrar pays for the renewal unless canceled.

What Epik and Netsol do is simply cherry pick expired domains to keep for financial gain, without any competition. That’s wrong.

Registrars cherry pick the same way domainers cherry pick through available domains or their own portfolios. It's not some sort of deceptive practice. You agree to terms when you register a domain and, by not renewing, give the registrar the right to do as they wish. If you don't agree with such terms, maybe the better choice would be to find a registrar whose terms align better with your ideas.

While Registrar getting greedy and they can make more profit by shorten the renewal grace period again, that's why all happening.

Your renewal timelines are not arbitrary. As I've mentioned to others, simply read the legal descriptions you've agreed to. Making a profit is exactly why registrars are in business. How much money do you think a registrar makes on your domain registrations, renewals and transfers? Have you ever tried to run a registrar business? I assume the answer is no and, therefore, calling a registrar "greedy" for fulfilling their fiduciary duty of making a profit is a bit irresponsible.