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After expiry should a registrar give a domain back to the pool?

Labeled as poll in Domain Expiration and Domain Drop Catching, started by frank-germany, Mar 2, 2020

Replies:
223
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11,060

?

after expiry should a registrar give a domain back to the pool?

Poll closed Apr 1, 2020.
  1. they should give it back in any case

    45 votes
    65.2%
  2. they may be allowed in some cases

    2 votes
    2.9%
  3. they may do whatever they want

    15 votes
    21.7%
  4. I don't care

    3 votes
    4.3%
  5. I don't like this poll

    4 votes
    5.8%
Total: 69 vote(s)
  1. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician VIP

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    so there was a discussion going on
    what a registrar should be doing when a domain drops

    1) should they be allowed to keep it for their own use and exploitation?
    2) should they always give it back to the pool?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
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  2. X7 Ryan

    X7 Ryan Owner, X7 Media Gold Account

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    IMO once the registrant dosent pay the renewal it's like abandoned property the registrar gives an opportunity for the registrant to reclaim it by paying the renewal then its theres to deal with. Personally it dosent matter, if they had to drop it services like dropcatch would just llcatch it during the drop to either fill up the HD portfolio or to auction off. Honestly I rather see those auction proceeds to go to the registrar than to DC.
     
  3. johnn

    johnn WeSellName.com VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    No It should not go back to the pool.

    The Registrar should take advantage of the Loophole and and keep/sell it for a profit.

    Who cares about business ethics - If I can Spam then Business Ethics is nothing to me.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  4. stub

    stub DNStore.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It was never envisioned that the Registrars would steal the domain away from their rightful owners before the 45 days were up. After which they were supposed to go back to the registry to await them drop. Registrars have stolen time from their own customers 45 days, so they can take and sell these expiring domains and pocket the cash. It's dishonest. How did it come to this? Well. Nobody got any morals anymore, is the problem. Chasing the almighty dollar. All these pre-45 day auction should be banned (but that will never happen). Who would benefit, if by some magic, it came true? Why, DropCatch of course. They can catch almost anything they desire with their infrastructure. Leaving SnapNames/NameJet grab a bone once in a while :)
     
  5. Keith

    Keith Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Registrars shouldn’t steal property that absolutely does not belong to them. It is their job to act as a holding tank for assets that belong to the customer.

    If a customer decides that they no longer want a specific asset, it should go through a standard expiry process.

    On what planet is it okay for any registrar to claim assets as their own, when they didn’t register the domain or buy it on the aftermarket? It’s theft plain and simple.

    I’m all for registrars selling expired domains via auction. That said, if no bids are placed in the case of an expired auction, the domain should move to the deletion phase.
     
  6. Brands.International

    Brands.International formerly lolwarrior VIP

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  7. X7 Ryan

    X7 Ryan Owner, X7 Media Gold Account

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    I don't think its fair to call that theft when the registrant hasn't paid for the renewal (meanwhile for the duration of the grace period the registrar has paid the registry to renew it). Regardless of what you think of the practice it is not theft, at that point the registrant hasn't paid the registrar to renew it but the registrar paid the registry.

    It would be nice if it didnt happen. But it would also be nice if dripcatch didn't have an advantage at the drop that is cost prohibitive for most to compete with them. In fact some end users would say it would be nice if people didnt squat on domains they weren't using to sell at exhorbant prices well beyond what they have paid for it. I don't see how one can logically say domaining is ok but registrar expiry auctions are not.

    Also, I dont think it's fair to quote @Rob Monster and tag the thread Epik as if it is something they do against the established norms. Actually Epik does buck established norms in good ways. Tob has mentioned here using NameLiquidate and other sources to monetize expired domains under a profit sharing model with the registrant, I'll have to see if I can find the post to link it. Godaddy doesn't do that. Why not call out @Joe Styler too?
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  8. stub

    stub DNStore.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I have many domains registered for many years when registrars did not steal any time from the registrant. Now it's commonplace. The registrars have stolen time from us. Take GoDaddy as an example. They used to give you up to day 42 to renew/transfer. That's 3 days gone already. Now they take what is it? 17-18 days. Just as quick as they can edit their terms and conditions. Did they negotiate taking this time? NO. It was done entirely to benefit their expiry auctions. They're all at it. Not just GoDaddy.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  9. X7 Ryan

    X7 Ryan Owner, X7 Media Gold Account

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    Actually no Godaddy is giving you 3 days you haven't paid for. Why complain they dont give you more free time? If my lease ends on a certain date but my landlord let's me stay 3 extra days for free without signing a new lease I think I should be grateful not upset it was only 3 days.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  10. Keith

    Keith Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    The registrar doesn’t pay the registry until the customer renews.

    If your domain expires, what gives the registrar the right to keep it? Why can’t I say I want it for basically zero cost?

    Places like Netsol and Epik are simply taking property that 100% never belonged to them. That’s theft.
     
  11. Keith

    Keith Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Godaddy isn’t doing that at a monetary cost to themselves. Grace periods are built in as a rule to running a registrar.
     
  12. X7 Ryan

    X7 Ryan Owner, X7 Media Gold Account

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    Actually they do pay. See https://www.namepros.com/threads/why-expired-domains-look-renewed-in-whois.1175902/#post-7622867

    They can get a refund by sending the domain to redemption grace period but over time and over a large number of customers that eats into their cash flow.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  13. stub

    stub DNStore.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @Ryan217 - At what day do you now lose you right of renewal at GoDaddy? ICANN says it at day 45. Any time taken from you is THEFT.
     
  14. X7 Ryan

    X7 Ryan Owner, X7 Media Gold Account

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    They say UPTO 45 days. It's a grace period not something you are entitled to. Its time you havent paid for.
     
  15. Keith

    Keith Top Contributor VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I’d advise you to check Whois on a domain I just dropped at godaddy, potgrowth.com.

    Even though it has been auctioned, no years have been added yet. Had godaddy paid to renew, it would show a 2021 expiry, not January of 2020 as it currently sits.
     
  16. HotKey

    HotKey Made in Canada VIP

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    No it's not theft, and essentially we do give up ownership by not renewing the lease. Really the mess we leave behind is loaded onto the registrars hands to sweep up, not to mention the costs.

    So since when is it our right to something we no longer own? It is more of a courtesy that registrants have access and or recourse to fix our misdeeds.

    Albeit I think the perception might be a problem with conflict of interest when a registrar bypasses the expiration rules, and the rules are there to be followed rather than be cherry-picked, and snags something for themselves that would have otherwise filtered through the process. It's questionable, and tests the integrity of the operator imo, but at the same time it was fully admitted to which is saying something.

    Using the mechanics of a registrar for a loophole to snag a domain might even be something a registrant might take advantage of, had they the opportunity.
     
  17. X7 Ryan

    X7 Ryan Owner, X7 Media Gold Account

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    Screenshot_20200302-053453_Whois & DNS Lookup.jpg
     
  18. stub

    stub DNStore.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    @Ryan217 - I have no idea what you are talking about? But I would like someone to tell me at what day do you lose the right to renew/transfer today. I don't know precisely, which was why I guessed at 17-18 days, taken from you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  19. X7 Ryan

    X7 Ryan Owner, X7 Media Gold Account

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    Any day past when it expired isn't guaranteed and varies by registrar.
     
  20. stub

    stub DNStore.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I want the full 45 days that ICANN specified, and used to be that at most registrars (a long time ago now). Showing my age :)
     
  21. X7 Ryan

    X7 Ryan Owner, X7 Media Gold Account

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    Well perhaps you should take that up with ICANN because they don't mandate 45 days. They allow upto 45 days but a registrar AFAIK could make it 0. Really it's the difference between may and must.
     
  22. stub

    stub DNStore.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    OK. It varies with every registrar. But what is the time you have to renew by at GoDaddy, these days. How many times do I have to ask?
     
  23. X7 Ryan

    X7 Ryan Owner, X7 Media Gold Account

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    Well idk about GoDaddy, I don't keep domains there, so I can't help you with that.
     
  24. stub

    stub DNStore.com PRO VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I ICANN stated 45 days. But how many registrars give you 45 days? GoDaddy used to give you 42 days. Fair enough. but taking days from you registrar renewal/replacement, is THEFT.
     
  25. pb

    pb Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Actually, is there a clause in the registar-icann and/or registrar-verisign agreement that explicitly states that the registrar can renew the domain and keep it for themselves or auction it off? Because for example in .pl registry it's strictly prohibited to do anything like that.

    However in .pl we have the sweetest thing that is called "future" (a.k.a. WLS - wait list service). Everyone can buy the "future" for a domain and if it drops, they become the new owner. No registrars keeping the domains, no dropcatching, just goes straight to the future holder. IMO it's as democratic as it gets.

    Now here's a funny thing: WLS was proposed by verisign in 2002 but rejected as anti-competitive. Because, yeah, it's anti-competitive that regular people could pay $35/y* for the dream of getting their beloved domain one day if it drops. What's obviously much better is that they pay $35k to godaddy or dropcatch instead. :whistle:

    (*) that was the price in the original proposal, but .com prices were much higher back then, too. I think it's safe to assume that nowadays WLS would cost ~$8 just as .com does.
     

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