strategy Missed a great opportunity in LLL.com flip...

[ramkumaritrvs]

Sale happened but we missed to earn from it due to the poor attempt that my team went..

I see $21k price on LLL .com (in private firm) but it will worth more. i interested to acquire and then trying to outbound but my team head suggested that we will do outbound, once get any lead then we will proceed to acquire @ $21k.

Almost spent 3 days to find potential endusers and outreached them. One of the company opened our mail 10+ times yesterday but didn't received any reply from them.

when checking the domain now, it got sold

Seller must sold @ morethan $21k because we asked $75k in outbound. Seller didn't aware of this outbound & sale but got benefit from my teams poor strategy.

Great lesson learnt now.

P.S: Just sharing the above as a test case. It may be helpful for someone in future.

 

[frank-germany]

for me made 2 mistakes

1) the obvious one
2) talking about it

he definitely has learned from it
but to me, that's still a private thing

merits of talking about it here?
: low

karma related benefits
: doubtful

summary:
oh man!

 

[Ategy]

Especially if the ones ranting against it, (90%+) of them, turn around and do no better, just cause it aligns with their own view of morality.

Ummm .. there is nothing wrong with buying something undervalue and then reselling it for a huge profit. That's called capitalism. Buy low .. sell high .. it's what I do with all my domains!

That isn't at all what's in question here. The only issue I think anyone ever had an issue with is that he didn't go through the crucial step of "buying low" .. lol. It wasn't his domain to sell.

It really depends how the domain was represented. I have seen this in the past were a party says they are the owners or make other misleading or false claims. Depending how the domain was represented you could have legal issues.

Yeah .. most of what you covered is pretty obvious. But I was asking specifically in terms of just the actual act of what we call front-running. Given the absence of tangible or monetary damages, and presuming the front-runner never explicitly said he's the owner (but simply did not mention that he wasn't, which to me is the unethical part), are there actual laws prohibiting attempting to sell something you don't own?

In some circumstances it is legal (short selling on the stock market), but there's likely more specific laws covering stocks given their relative liquid nature. That said .. short selling stocks isn't exactly the same thing .. but not dissimilar .. which is why I was curious. Because while I'm definitely against unidentified reselling by a non-owner, I was just curious if there were any specific laws that applied to such things?

 

[bmugford]

Yeah .. most of what you covered is pretty obvious. But I was asking specifically in terms of just the actual act of what we call front-running. Given the absence of tangible or monetary damages, and presuming the front-runner never explicitly said he's the owner (but simply did not mention that he wasn't, which to me is the unethical part), are there actual laws prohibiting attempting to sell something you don't own?

In some circumstances it is legal (short selling on the stock market), but there's likely more specific laws covering stocks given their relative liquid nature. That said .. short selling stocks isn't exactly the same thing .. but not dissimilar .. which is why I was curious. Because while I'm definitely against unidentified reselling by a non-owner, I was just curious if there were any specific laws that applied to such things?

I am not a lawyer, but I would doubt there is really any specific criminal law.

You could compare it almost to drop shipping, but that is many of the same product.

Domains are one of a kind. With domains you introduce potential TM and other legal issues which is far more complex.

Either way the practice is really shady as it puts all of the risk on unaware domain owner.
If you want to pitch a domain buy it, or get permission. This stuff really annoys me as I have had specific issues in the past with it.

Brad

 

[alcy]

As i said before, It was a strategy that my team tried and got failed. I am 100% agree that it's unethical but it's not harmed anyone (except us).

I might hide it but being honest to the community, i shared my success & failures here at namepros because i learned a lot from my fellow elder domainer's experience.

I haven't seen thread like this before but that's not mean no one tried it before. Atleast it will help who visit this thread with the same idea in future. They may change their mind after seeing critics that we received.

If mod wants to remove my PRO tag, i would like to accept their decision

your title and first post says you shared it because you missed a profit opportunity, not because you wanted to share something unethical you did. its only after people started to tell you its unethical that you started to talk about outbounding prior to owning.

i think the least you can do at this point is not say you started this thread to describe something unethical. cause then it makes u look doubly bad.

 

[wurdd]

Nope, im saying, if they already admit it, tell them its wrong and give em a break. Especially if the ones ranting against it, (90%+) of them, turn around and do no better, just cause it aligns with their own view of morality.

Lets get back on topic. Imo,
Please dont do this, it can be harmful to the current domain owners, and if you dont own the domain its not yours to sell unless you have permission to do so.

I suggest you go read the first two posts by the OP. Don't come in here making idiotic analogies and then use morality as your defense. Front running domains is identity theft - period. So, you think identity theft is comparable to capitalism?

And, I think it must be added that the OP is a "PRO" member here. Do you think that badge could confuse a newbie?

There's a lot of stuff that stinks here, including your defense of the guy and his "team."

 

[FolioTeam]

Not defending anyone or anything, Just mentioning the fact that everyone in the thread condemning a "admitted", bad action, quite harshly... would at the same time, do the same, worse, or maybe a little better, yet nontheless, an unethical action, to earn money... while all thats needed is a Not cool, please dont repeat.

That other people might do/are doing it and are condemning it regardless, still doesn't make it right. It just makes those people hypocrites.

Still doesn't change the fact that the act is wrong/unethical or any other words that suits you.

 

[valnames]

All our emails are traceable. We using hubspot, snov and few others. with / without consent is depends upon the tracking companies policy.

Can you please explain in detail how you use these apps? Which one is the best, accurate one?

 

[FolioTeam]

Your "other than the fact" is actually ALL the difference in the world.

What would have been more acceptable in my books is if he had made the outbound pitch with a very clear indication that he is not the owner.
(Although in this case it wouldn't have made sense if there was a public BIN on the domain.)



Unethical I agree totally. But just wondering what the specific law(s) you're referring to? I'm not at all saying there is or isn't any .. just curious, as it's one aspect of domain/transactional law I'm less familiar with.

Yes, it is an act of impersonation; implicitly/explicitly claiming to be the owner or broker for a merchandise when you are not. That's fraud, at least here in Nigeria.

Now, I can't speak for other places.

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

Probably not first time you did it. Hopefully the last.

 

[NickB]

Probably not first time you did it. Hopefully the last.

good point - only the first time he lost out by the sound of it......

 

[wurdd]

good point - only the first time he lost out by the sound of it......

Wrong again. The person harmed here was the owner of the domain. The OP was the perp.

 

[NickB]

Wrong again. The person harmed here was the owner of the domain. The OP was the perp.

My first post in this thread, so not wrong again

Take my post in context - I replied to a post that said "Probably not first time you did it. Hopefully the last."

I agreed that this this is probably not the first time the OP has done this, most likely not only the first time he has failed with "front running" tactics

So my post implied that I do not agree with it and the only reason the OP is showing remorse is that they failed with their (questionable) objectives........the value of the domain probably has a lot to do with his thread....

Hopefully the above clarifies my position.......

Sales (or lack thereof) a tale of the one that that got away, remorse, if only, what could of been, blah blah blah heard and seen it all before.......

 

[barybadrinath]

whatever you did is according to your understanding but thanks for writing this post to tell others to learn from it.

 

[wurdd]

My first post in this thread, so not wrong again

Take my post in context - I replied to a post that said "Probably not first time you did it. Hopefully the last."

I agreed that this this is probably not the first time the OP has done this, most likely not only the first time he has failed with "front running" tactics

So my post implied that I do not agree with it and the only reason the OP is showing remorse is that they failed with their (questionable) objectives........the value of the domain probably has a lot to do with his thread....

Hopefully the above clarifies my position.......

Sales (or lack thereof) a tale of the one that that got away, remorse, if only, what could of been, blah blah blah heard and seen it all before.......

Thanks for clarifying. I read your post as it was the first time the OP did this and the OP lost out.

 

[novasyd]

Sale happened but we missed to earn from it due to the poor attempt that my team went..

I see $21k price on LLL .com (in private firm) but it will worth more. i interested to acquire and then trying to outbound but my team head suggested that we will do outbound, once get any lead then we will proceed to acquire @ $21k.

Almost spent 3 days to find potential endusers and outreached them. One of the company opened our mail 10+ times yesterday but didn't received any reply from them.

when checking the domain now, it got sold

Seller must sold @ morethan $21k because we asked $75k in outbound. Seller didn't aware of this outbound & sale but got benefit from my teams poor strategy.

Great lesson learnt now.

P.S: Just sharing the above as a test case. It may be helpful for someone in future.

Don't give up, I also have some domains.. do you want to outbound them too? :D

 

[Compassion]

Your shenanigans surely boomeranged you into a mental see saw!


Shenanigator
ex: @ramkumaritrvs


ex:

Ram proved to win the Shenanigator Of The Year award at NamePros for outing himself and the shenanigans he nearly successfully pulled to make several thousand on an LLL.com deal.

 

[Bonsu]

Not accidently, we did it on purpose. It was a new strategy that my team tried and failed.

Without owning the domain we did outbound (to save acquisition cost & less risk on hold). If we didn't get any leads then we might move to next domain. that's our plan but we got kicked this time

21k wasn't a bad deal. You could still have bought it and hold on to it. I feel it's not ethical to carry out that strategy.imo

 

[Picorio]

It is the same story here, a broker contacted me to buy one domain from me at $3k7 while he had done the agreement with the enduser at $14k, this happened in Jan., 2020

Very interesting... how did you find out the broker has agreed on a higher price than the one he was offering you? Did the broker was capable of tell you the real fact about the deal?

 

[Sinh]

Very interesting... how did you find out the broker has agreed on a higher price than the one he was offering you? Did the broker was capable of tell you the real fact about the deal?

Thanks for your comments. It's right, he told me when he transfered the domain to the enduser.

 

[Crysis]

At the very same time you would also not blink to think, and accept $7k from a different domainer on one of (any) your domains, even thou you know full well you paid $500, and havnt had an inquiry in 3 years...and that chances are next to 0 he will make a profit and likely just be stuck with the name forever

Scratching my head here. Your analogy makes zero sense.

Why should I even care whether the buyer makes a profit or not. As a seller, I am here to make a profit and really do not care if the buyer is stuck with the name forever or not. Isn't this what domaining is all about? Buying low and selling high. There is nothing unethical here. I am selling my own asset for a profit ethically.

On the other hand, OP is trying to sell a asset he does not own which is definitely unethical.

 

[NameShiba]

Regardless of the legalities behind the decision of creating a team in the active effort of attempting to secure a sale of an asset that was not acquired to an end-user.

It is simply unethical.

I do appreciate the OP to point out the conversation in this thread.

Regardless of everyone's take on the current situation at hand -- since we are all here coming together talking about this practice this can be used as a great talking point.

Other people are watching this thread or viewing it, I hope this advice is given to newcomers and older members of the domain industry so that as a collective -- we can learn from these mistakes and grow as an industry and community.

Continuing to discuss the ethics over an obviously unethical situation -- may provide not as constructive of discussing the active talking points of the situation at hand.

Important example.

✗ "What a bad decision, de-platform the OP now."

✔ This is unethical -- everyone take heed to the scenario being played out here.
These are the reasons why you should avoid doing business this way so we can all sell domains better.

Hopefully your thread encouraged other people to stay away from this practice.
Cheers on you for being upfront about honest with both mistakes and successes.

May your next ventures be fruitful with the lessons learned -- and let's all get back to selling names.

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

Sale happened but we missed to earn from it due to the poor attempt that my team went..

I see $21k price on LLL .com (in private firm) but it will worth more. i interested to acquire and then trying to outbound but my team head suggested that we will do outbound, once get any lead then we will proceed to acquire @ $21k.

Almost spent 3 days to find potential endusers and outreached them. One of the company opened our mail 10+ times yesterday but didn't received any reply from them.

when checking the domain now, it got sold

Seller must sold @ morethan $21k because we asked $75k in outbound. Seller didn't aware of this outbound & sale but got benefit from my teams poor strategy.

Great lesson learnt now.

P.S: Just sharing the above as a test case. It may be helpful for someone in future.

Ridculous, greedy, stupid and unprofessional, total fraud.

 

[Picorio]

Thanks for your comments. It's right, he told me when he transfered the domain to the enduser.

Thank you for sharing your story and for answering my question! Wow I see... at least he was honest as to tell you his earnings as a middle man.

I once got a little upset with a Godaddy's employee ( broker) who called me about an inquiry he has from a customer that was interested on one of my domain. I was asking 6 figures(100,000) for the domain and the broker asked me that the client wanted to know if the price was negotiable. I said, yes it's negotiable. The broker said how much would you sell it for? I said, since it already has a price tag on it,I would like to hear how much your client offer is? The Godaddy's representant told me right away: " We should sell him your domain based on the price of similar domains sold before." I was like: "well it makes sense but dont you think If the potential buyer saw the tag price of 100,000 for the domain and he or she was capable of contacting Godaddy regarding my domain, doesn't it mean we should use the tag price as a starting point.? I basically feel that the Godaddy's broker was trying to down grade my price right over the phone without even giving the customer the chance to come up with an offer. I was wondering how much then I should ask: 80, 70 50 40, 30 or 15 thousand? I would prefer to hear the customer offer first before I cut my price off and leave money on the table. Who knows what the broker intention was! Or maybe I should have asked the broker " Then you tell me how much do you think I should sale it for? and if I was comfortable with his numbers ,then I would sell it but I feel that it is not the right way of doing business to let a broker to chose how much you should sale a domain for.

The point of the matter is that the sell didn't go through. The broker told me he went and told them my answer and they said were going to have a meeting with his business partners to come up with an offer( this make me feel they probably were a big fish)

...3 days later the broker contacted me again and said " They decided to buy a different domain."
I said: No problem, have a nice day." End of the story. Maybe I didn't manage the offer properly

 

[BrandEntrance.com]

Thank you for sharing your story and for answering my question! Wow I see... at least he was honest as to tell you his earnings as a middle man.

I once got a little upset with a Godaddy's employee ( broker) who called me about an inquiry he has from a customer that was interested on one of my domain. I was asking 6 figures(100,000) for the domain and the broker asked me that the client wanted to know if the price was negotiable. I said, yes it's negotiable. The broker said how much would you sell it for? I said, since it already has a price tag on it,I would like to hear how much your client offer is? The Godaddy's representant told me right away: " We should sell him your domain based on the price of similar domains sold before." I was like: "well it makes sense but dont you think If the potential buyer saw the tag price of 100,000 for the domain and he or she was capable of contacting Godaddy regarding my domain, doesn't it mean we should use the tag price as a starting point.? I basically feel that the Godaddy's broker was trying to down grade my price right over the phone without even giving the customer the chance to come up with an offer. I was wondering how much then I should ask: 80, 70 50 40, 30 or 15 thousand? I would prefer to hear the customer offer first before I cut my price off and leave money on the table. Who knows what the broker intention was! Or maybe I should have asked the broker " Then you tell me how much do you think I should sale it for? and if I was comfortable with his numbers ,then I would sell it but I feel that it is not the right way of doing business to let a broker to chose how much you should sale a domain for.

The point of the matter is that the sell didn't go through. The broker told me he went and told them my answer and they said were going to have a meeting with his business partners to come up with an offer( this make me feel they probably were a big fish)

...3 days later the broker contacted me again and said " They decided to buy a different domain."
I said: No problem, have a nice day." End of the story. Maybe I didn't manage the offer properly

The question is "How much were you going to get and how much was GoDaddy going to secure for themselves?".
I suppose they steer they buyer to another domain name they control if you aren't working out.

 

[Sinh]

Thank you for sharing your story and for answering my question! Wow I see... at least he was honest as to tell you his earnings as a middle man.

I once got a little upset with a Godaddy's employee ( broker) who called me about an inquiry he has from a customer that was interested on one of my domain. I was asking 6 figures(100,000) for the domain and the broker asked me that the client wanted to know if the price was negotiable. I said, yes it's negotiable. The broker said how much would you sell it for? I said, since it already has a price tag on it,I would like to hear how much your client offer is? The Godaddy's representant told me right away: " We should sell him your domain based on the price of similar domains sold before." I was like: "well it makes sense but dont you think If the potential buyer saw the tag price of 100,000 for the domain and he or she was capable of contacting Godaddy regarding my domain, doesn't it mean we should use the tag price as a starting point.? I basically feel that the Godaddy's broker was trying to down grade my price right over the phone without even giving the customer the chance to come up with an offer. I was wondering how much then I should ask: 80, 70 50 40, 30 or 15 thousand? I would prefer to hear the customer offer first before I cut my price off and leave money on the table. Who knows what the broker intention was! Or maybe I should have asked the broker " Then you tell me how much do you think I should sale it for? and if I was comfortable with his numbers ,then I would sell it but I feel that it is not the right way of doing business to let a broker to chose how much you should sale a domain for.

The point of the matter is that the sell didn't go through. The broker told me he went and told them my answer and they said were going to have a meeting with his business partners to come up with an offer( this make me feel they probably were a big fish)

...3 days later the broker contacted me again and said " They decided to buy a different domain."
I said: No problem, have a nice day." End of the story. Maybe I didn't manage the offer properly

Thanks for your sharing. IMO, I think that the broker he has a lot of experience to close a deal, he knows who buyer is and they can afford the price or not, that's why he directly wants to reduce the price in order to reach an agreement with the buyer. I have a good story with the Afternic's broker, I received an offer at $7,680 for one of my domains and I said my non-negotiable price was $15,800 but the broker told me that he could get a better one for me , finally he helped me to close the deal at $18,888. He could do this because he knew the buyer had enough money to ask for.