strategy Missed a great opportunity in LLL.com flip...

[ramkumaritrvs]

Sale happened but we missed to earn from it due to the poor attempt that my team went..

I see $21k price on LLL .com (in private firm) but it will worth more. i interested to acquire and then trying to outbound but my team head suggested that we will do outbound, once get any lead then we will proceed to acquire @ $21k.

Almost spent 3 days to find potential endusers and outreached them. One of the company opened our mail 10+ times yesterday but didn't received any reply from them.

when checking the domain now, it got sold

Seller must sold @ morethan $21k because we asked $75k in outbound. Seller didn't aware of this outbound & sale but got benefit from my teams poor strategy.

Great lesson learnt now.

P.S: Just sharing the above as a test case. It may be helpful for someone in future.

 

[bmugford]

So you were outbounding a domain that you did not own, without the permission of the owner? That is not cool at all.

You are basically shifting the risk from you onto the owner. You could burn through any leads that they might want to explore later, while also potentially putting them at legal risk, like with a potential dispute.

Brad

 

[TERADOMAIN]

No, It was a new strategy that my team tried and failed.

Without owning the domain we did outbound (to save acquisition cost & less risk on hold). If we didn't get any leads then we might move to next domain. that's our plan but we got kicked this time

Thanks for sharing with honesty.

But in reality its harmful to real owner. It may invite UDRP to real owner without he is aware of it. He may get UDRP without his fault. If your team accidently contact trademark owner then it may create unnecessary headache to real owner.

In my mind that is not correct practice. Nobody should represent any asset without prior consent from owner. Broker do represent asset only after getting prior approval from real owner via agreement.

Just sharing as good friend.

Thanks

 

[AbdulBasit.com]

It's called front running and I agree with what @wurdd has said.

Also on one side you if you @ramkumaritrvs agree of doing it purposely and also admitting it doing by mistake and on the other hand you post title says "Missed a great opportunity" which shows that if this trick had worked, you wouldn't be thinking of doing anything wrong and called it a successful strategy?

It's good you openly shared in public and one have to have the courage to do it which is a nice thing to do but I was surprised to see this coming from a very experienced domain investor like you.

 

[wwwweb]

Sale happened but we missed to earn from it due to the poor attempt that my team went..

I see $21k price on LLL .com (in private firm) but it will worth more. i interested to acquire and then trying to outbound but my team head suggested that we will do outbound, once get any lead then we will proceed to acquire @ $21k.

Almost spent 3 days to find potential endusers and outreached them. One of the company opened our mail 10+ times yesterday but didn't received any reply from them.

when checking the domain now, it got sold

Seller must sold @ morethan $21k because we asked $75k in outbound. Seller didn't aware of this outbound & sale but got benefit from my teams poor strategy.

Great lesson learnt now.

P.S: Just sharing the above as a test case. It may be helpful for someone in future.

Sorry to say this MODS need to remove that PRO badge, that is BS newbie move.

To sell something you don't own, especially with the legal risk of 3L.com's these days is totally amateur, you learned your lesson how, because you lost a potential sale of an asset you didn't own.

I don't know what to say, people seem to think they, and THEIR TEAM can send a few emails, and make $54K before lunch, without breaking a sweat. I have no idea who gave you a pro badge, but everything you stated is unethical. Insult to injury you come on here to brag about it?

My guess it's probably FLM

 

[Josh R]

He is buying the domain name not going to steal from the owner.

It could be just me that think it OK no one need to agree with me.

Did @Epik.com not give you a brief lesson in the basic code of ethics in our industry prior to making you an ambassador for their brand?

 

[ramkumaritrvs]

So you were outbounding a domain that you did not own, without the permission of the owner?

yes

I agree that it's not cool and we learnt now. we will not do the same for sure.

 

[Josh R]

This is front-running and one of the ABSOLUTE worst things you can do in this industry.

Especially on high value assets like you are discussing.

This could easily end up with legal action taken by various different parties including the rightful owner OR even worse the parties that you out-bounded to.

Tell me I'm missing something here @ramkumaritrvs ? This practice is completely unacceptable.

EDIT: I can now see Ram has apologized in the thread. Hopefully lesson learned never to do this again.

 

[bmugford]

Other then the fact that front-running can legally backfire on the current owner, i would see no difference to the 2 examples above. The industry is clustered with somewhat edgy, somewhat ethical, ethical, and clearly unethical behaviour. Admitting to what likely falls into the later could also be seen as admitting a mistake.

1.) You own the asset and can do as you please.

2.) You do not own the asset. You are not contracted to represent the asset. You pitch it without permission.

There is a major difference.

Brad

 

[equity78]

Not accidently, we did it on purpose. It was a new strategy that my team tried and failed.

Without owning the domain we did outbound (to save acquisition cost & less risk on hold). If we didn't get any leads then we might move to next domain. that's our plan but we got kicked this time

I don't mean this with any disrespect and I am not the domain police, do what you like but don't announce this. You did not get the deal and you can hurt your rep.

 

[wurdd]

As i said before, It was a strategy that my team tried and got failed. I am 100% agree that it's unethical but it's not harmed anyone (except us).

I might hide it but being honest to the community, i shared my success & failures here at namepros because i learned a lot from my fellow elder domainer's experience.

I haven't seen thread like this before but that's not mean no one tried it before. Atleast it will help who visit this thread with the same idea in future. They may change their mind after seeing critics that we received.

If mod wants to remove my PRO tag, i would like to accept their decision

You have no rights or interest in the domain. It's called front running. What you did was parasitic and your actions were detrimental to the mojo of the domain and domain owner. Bad karma if you ask me. You must send the owner some flowers and an apology right away!

 

[TERADOMAIN]

Thanks for sharing.

So accidently your team did outbound without owning an asset??

 

[TERADOMAIN]

yes

I agree that it's not cool and we learnt now. we will not do the same for sure.

But I really appreciate your honesty. I also admire you admit your mistake.

It require lots of courage to accept our mistake in front of many people.

My respect for you is same like before reading this thread. In my eye your reputation is intact.

Thanks

 

[ramkumaritrvs]

Insult to injury you come on here to brag about it?

As i said before, It was a strategy that my team tried and got failed. I am 100% agree that it's unethical but it's not harmed anyone (except us).

I might hide it but being honest to the community, i shared my success & failures here at namepros because i learned a lot from my fellow elder domainer's experience.

I haven't seen thread like this before but that's not mean no one tried it before. Atleast it will help who visit this thread with the same idea in future. They may change their mind after seeing critics that we received.

If mod wants to remove my PRO tag, i would like to accept their decision

 

[ramkumaritrvs]

It may invite UDRP to real owner without he is aware of it. He may get UDRP without his fault.

We have checked for TM before trying outbound. It's not a TM'ed LLL.com.

you can hurt your rep.

Yes but i decided to share this because, in future no one should attempt like this.

I want to be honest to the community where i learnt most of my domaining skills.

Just hiding things may good for reputation but really not help for the community.

 

[Sinh]

It is the same story here, a broker contacted me to buy one domain from me at $3k7 while he had done the agreement with the enduser at $14k, this happened in Jan., 2020

 

[wwwweb]

These guys been front running namejet, and godaddy auctions for sometime. This is their business model, all the bang, without any investment. Prior many years godaddys landing page simply said expired, had no auction links, but having an auction link, a keen end user can bypass these type of clowns, but they also screw other bidders in losing out, or having to pay more by tipping the drop on the auction. Good for the house, bad for you.

Namejet has the worst of it with many high profile auctions being put into legal jeopardy, as well as end user bad faith even before you own it, and to walk into having all your leads burned with shady activity is never good. You ever wonder how an end user stumbles upon your landing page link right after you acquire a name, most of the time it’s not luck, but they finally opened their spam, or looked into the front running email they got to later.

This issue is a black mark on the domain industry, it doesn’t get mentioned to often, but somehow this community based PRO program really needs to remove that badge as this person is not handling themselves as such. It almost makes the PRO badge seem like a sham.

 

[bmugford]

We have checked for TM before trying outbound. It's not a TM'ed LLL.com.

TM law is nuanced. There can be common law TM as well.

At the end of the day, even a meritless case would be the responsibility of the owner to deal with.

I certainly would not want some random, likely unqualified, party making any legal determinations regarding my domain.

Brad

 

[Abdullah Abdullah]

You opened up. there are many people who do this and done before. I know one

No harm in doing this as far as you are going to buy a domain.

No harm in doing this? Are you kidding me? Come on man,

 

[frank-germany]

for me made 2 mistakes

1) the obvious one
2) talking about it

he definitely has learned from it
but to me, that's still a private thing

merits of talking about it here?
: low

karma related benefits
: doubtful

summary:
oh man!

 

[wurdd]

Not here to defend, but....

Let me just briefly mention that most everyone in here condemning hes action, would at the very same time given the opportunity, purchase a 3L.com at $5k without thinking twice... (from anyone, end-users and domainers alike), full well knowing that you are taking an asset for far less then what he could get if he went to market, then, you call yourself smart. At the very same time you would also not blink to think, and accept $7k from a different domainer on one of (any) your domains, even thou you know full well you paid $500, and havnt had an inquiry in 3 years...and that chances are next to 0 he will make a profit and likely just be stuck with the name forever.

Other then the fact that front-running can legally backfire on the current owner, i would see no difference to the 2 examples above. The industry is clustered with somewhat edgy, somewhat ethical, ethical, and clearly unethical behaviour. Admitting to what likely falls into the later could also be seen as admitting a mistake.

And if you just so happen to be one of those few, (prob 10 at the most).. Domainers that have never made a lowball offer, never sold for what is clearly too much to a different domainer, never done any front-running (be it between 2 domainers)... or any other action that someone somewhere might condemn or see as unethical, then cheers, Hats off.

That's the worst analogy I've ever seen. And, yes you're defending front running domains, too.

 

[DomainsMaven]

Thanks for sharing with honesty.

But in reality its harmful to real owner. It may invite UDRP to real owner without he is aware of it. He may get UDRP without his fault. If your team accidently contact trademark owner then it may create unnecessary headache to real owner.

In my mind that is not correct practice. Nobody should represent any asset without prior consent from owner. Broker do represent asset only after getting prior approval from real owner via agreement.

Just sharing as good friend.

Thanks

Totally agree.

Not cool at all.

 

[bmugford]

Yeah .. most of what you covered is pretty obvious. But I was asking specifically in terms of just the actual act of what we call front-running. Given the absence of tangible or monetary damages, and presuming the front-runner never explicitly said he's the owner (but simply did not mention that he wasn't, which to me is the unethical part), are there actual laws prohibiting attempting to sell something you don't own?

In some circumstances it is legal (short selling on the stock market), but there's likely more specific laws covering stocks given their relative liquid nature. That said .. short selling stocks isn't exactly the same thing .. but not dissimilar .. which is why I was curious. Because while I'm definitely against unidentified reselling by a non-owner, I was just curious if there were any specific laws that applied to such things?

I am not a lawyer, but I would doubt there is really any specific criminal law.

You could compare it almost to drop shipping, but that is many of the same product.

Domains are one of a kind. With domains you introduce potential TM and other legal issues which is far more complex.

Either way the practice is really shady as it puts all of the risk on unaware domain owner.
If you want to pitch a domain buy it, or get permission. This stuff really annoys me as I have had specific issues in the past with it.

Brad

 

[alcy]

As i said before, It was a strategy that my team tried and got failed. I am 100% agree that it's unethical but it's not harmed anyone (except us).

I might hide it but being honest to the community, i shared my success & failures here at namepros because i learned a lot from my fellow elder domainer's experience.

I haven't seen thread like this before but that's not mean no one tried it before. Atleast it will help who visit this thread with the same idea in future. They may change their mind after seeing critics that we received.

If mod wants to remove my PRO tag, i would like to accept their decision

your title and first post says you shared it because you missed a profit opportunity, not because you wanted to share something unethical you did. its only after people started to tell you its unethical that you started to talk about outbounding prior to owning.

i think the least you can do at this point is not say you started this thread to describe something unethical. cause then it makes u look doubly bad.

 

[Crysis]

At the very same time you would also not blink to think, and accept $7k from a different domainer on one of (any) your domains, even thou you know full well you paid $500, and havnt had an inquiry in 3 years...and that chances are next to 0 he will make a profit and likely just be stuck with the name forever

Scratching my head here. Your analogy makes zero sense.

Why should I even care whether the buyer makes a profit or not. As a seller, I am here to make a profit and really do not care if the buyer is stuck with the name forever or not. Isn't this what domaining is all about? Buying low and selling high. There is nothing unethical here. I am selling my own asset for a profit ethically.

On the other hand, OP is trying to sell a asset he does not own which is definitely unethical.