discuss The new dot everything showcase and discussion

[Keith]

Well it appears as though it's happening. The launch of .land, .bike, .this, and .that is here and many more to come.

Show off your new .whatevers here and discuss why these are or are not good investments. Keep it cool, calm, and productive

I'll start with my new regs... absolutely none!

 

[mjnels]

I buy domains to sell at a profit. It's true that a registry should also be thinking of how to profit. The question is...is a quick cash grab better than a solid business plan that seeks continued growth?

These fly by night tld owners seem to want quick cash which ultimately hurts domain investors that don't know any better.

thats a completely different angle - it sounds like you're talking about this as a stockholder.

which TLD owners are fly by night? all the new gTLD?

 

[Keith]

which TLD owners are fly by night? all the new gTLD?

The majority, any that think shelving "premium" inventory is a good strategy.

 

[mjnels]

The majority, any that think shelving "premium" inventory is a good strategy.

ok, so roughly how many of these do you think will ultimately get deleted from the root and no longer exist?

i dont expect you to know an exact amount or timeline but as a conservative guess, how many do you think will be non-existent after 10 years?

 

[scandiman]

The majority, any that think shelving "premium" inventory is a good strategy.

Why is it a bad strategy?

 

[Keith]

Why is it a bad strategy?

The only reason these may be attractive to some people, companies, is that they can easily get a premium domain. Something they cannot do with .com. If the registry holds back loads of the best names and/or charges a hefty renewal fee, this could be a discouragement.

 

[Kate]

Why is it a bad strategy?

I think it is a bad strategy for two reasons:
First, shelving "premium" inventory means that lots of domains will not be available to qualified end users (possibly through a RFP process), that could otherwise develop them into meaningful websites and enhance the standing of the TLD. TLDs don't shine without development.

Second, the market value can go down very quickly past the launch phase and when the excitement and initial interest has waned.
.mobi is the best known example.
In the first two years, a number of premium keywords sold for 6 figures (you remember one guy was actually willing to pay 600K for music.mobi until the auction crashed).
Then poof - nothing.

A few months ago, .mobi domains like realestate, properties, hotels have dropped and were snapped easily.
In the history of domaining, there has been never a TLD losing so much of its value.
The registry has retained an inventory of domains like sex.mobi, that could have fetched good money back in the day. Now they could barely give them away.

In other younger extensions, the value has not appreciated either: .biz .us or .info are worth even less than in the past.

 

[loupe]

there is nothing wrong with a registry acting as a domainer though if thats what they want to do. its no more a cash grab then me buying and holding good terms.

maybe the method wont work out for some registries, maybe it will but there is nothing unethical about selling certain words for more than others as a registry.

I believe they are allowed to reserve up to MAX 100 domains themselves, correct me if i'm wrong ofcourse.

---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:22 PM ----------

thats a completely different angle - it sounds like you're talking about this as a stockholder.

which TLD owners are fly by night? all the new gTLD?

They're not fly by night, if you read ICANN conditions and further agreements even if they go bankrupt their TLD is taken over by multiple other contracted registries by default. That aside from the requirements to proof they can stay afloat for X years before that backup plan is triggered. So no, those TLD's will not disappear just like .com won't disappear

And for the rest, please do your homework, especially the ICANN website has alot of facts instead of here guessing or dreaming up situations which are already covered.

---------- Post added at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 PM ----------

Do you know if it's normal for the renewal price of the new domains to differ?

I have a few .tips domains and the renewal price for 2 of them is 250$ while for others it's just 22$.

I have already sent a question to the company I used to register the domains but it's taking a while to get answers.

It's only normal if the domain is a premium. So when you paid the premium price then you can expect the renewal will not be against the normal reg price but the same premium price when you registered it.

But if you mean some shady company who you regged for a normal fee a domain with and for the renewal is asking suddenly a totally difference price then that is very strange. Maybe a mistake on their end. Do you know which company this is ?

 

[Kate]

mjnels really loves to argue/debate all of this while having zero stake in it. i don't know why you waste your time.

I have zero stake in new extensions too, but I like to bash them
I like to play the devil's adocate, and enjoy the clash of ideas as well. MJ too.
Unfortunately the outcome is very predictable: domainers are going to lose money at this game, with very exceptions. The only winning domainers are the registries.

 

[scandiman]

The only reason these may be attractive to some people, companies, is that they can easily get a premium domain. Something they cannot do with .com. If the registry holds back loads of the best names and/or charges a hefty renewal fee, this could be a discouragement.

I agree the point for an end user is to get a 'better' domain (I know that's highly debatable lol). I guess the question is if the registry is serious about working with folks or not, largely depends on the registry.

--------------

I think it is a bad strategy for two reasons:
First, shelving "premium" inventory means that lots of domains will not be available to qualified end users (possibly through a RFP process), that could otherwise develop them into meaningful websites and enhance the standing of the TLD. TLDs don't shine without development.

Second, the market value can go down very quickly past the launch phase and when the excitement and initial interest has waned.
.mobi is the best known example.
In the first two years, a number of premium keywords sold for 6 figures (you remember one guy was actually willing to pay 600K for music.mobi until the auction crashed).
Then poof - nothing.

A few months ago, .mobi domains like realestate, properties, hotels have dropped and were snapped easily.
In the history of domaining, there has been never a TLD losing so much of its value.
The registry has retained an inventory of domains like sex.mobi, that could have fetched good money back in the day. Now they could barely give them away.

In other younger extensions, the value has not appreciated either: .biz .us or .info are worth even less than in the past.

Not sure from what perspective you're coming from, first you're saying the point is to get development going on good names (which I agree completely with) but then second it's almost like you're saying the entire point of a Premium list should be for the registry to maximize revenue. If so then dotMobi failed in their cash grab that everyone was complaining about since they still have a giant .mobi portfolio. As for drops, all of them are easily snapped by someone, be it a drop catch service or someone who is faster. In the specific cases you mentioned the guy who caught them was faster than snap and pool, I know since I back-ordered one of them. That dude is quick.

 

[jmcc]

I've been a domainer since 1996, before Shilling and am buying a lot of new gtld domains.

You bought a domain name back then? Domainers typically buy and sell domain names. How much did you pay for the domain name(s) you bought then?

Regards...jmcc

 

[forge]

You bought a domain name back then? Domainers typically buy and sell domain names. How much did you pay for the domain name(s) you bought then?

Be patient.

I'm hoping to learn from the Master too.

 

[Ms Domainer]

*

Who's the Master?



*

 

[jmcc]

Why is it a bad strategy?

When registries start acting like domainers instead of registries, there is a major problem.

They are effectively in competition with a section of the market that initially drives some of the growth in the early phase of a TLD's existence.

And once word gets around that the game is rigged, then the pros won't want to play. Pretty soon, that attitude spreads to most domainers and the TLD is left with relying on the mom and pop businesses who are using .COM or .ccTLD. And they have no real reason to switch.

So what happens is this: No landrush boost (or a very flat one) followed by disenchantment and the DotWhat? effect. The public does not even recognise or remember the TLD.

After that comes the Junk Dump (first anniversary when the highly speculative domains that could not be flipped are dropped). The percentage dropped can vary but there might be a few newbies ready to pick up the dropped domains but there may be no natural drops as the deleting domains might be hoovered up for auction by the registries or by large registrars.

The second anniversary is sometimes more lethal as it is the Hold'em or Fold'em time for those hanging on to their domains hoping for an increase in value.

Development and usage runs in parallel with all of this. If there is no significant development in the first six to eleven months, then the perception that the TLD is a Dead Zone will grow amongst prospective registrants. If you see registries providing dodgy figures about usage and PPC landing pages for undeveloped domains claimed to be simple redirects, then it is almost certain that there is a problem.

Regards...jmcc

---------- Post added at 05:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 AM ----------

Second, the market value can go down very quickly past the launch phase and when the excitement and initial interest has waned.

For a large TLD with global appeal, this tends to happen after the first six months of operation. I'm not an expert on market values but there are compressed landrush phases visible with some of the new gTLDs and trends that take months to show up (e.g the big weekend slowdowns) are appearing within weeks.

With the variable registration fees and renewal rates, some of these new gTLDs will have a battle ahead to break 100K registration in a year.

Regards...jmcc

 

[RU]

18,490 .email domains have been registered
Why people buy .email? I don't understand

 

[McDuke]

18,490 .email domains have been registered
Why people buy .email? I don't understand

so they can have

first name@last name.email

or

First name(s).email

 

[forge]

Golf.academy has $2,000 bid on Sedo!

YAY NEW GTLDS! RAH! RAH! GO NEW TLDS!!!

I have seen the light, everything is crystal clear and this Brave New TLD World is BEAUTIFUL!

p.s. .email is still shit

 

[scandiman]

When registries start acting like domainers instead of registries, there is a major problem.

They are effectively in competition with a section of the market that initially drives some of the growth in the early phase of a TLD's existence.

And once word gets around that the game is rigged, then the pros won't want to play. Pretty soon, that attitude spreads to most domainers and the TLD is left with relying on the mom and pop businesses who are using .COM or .ccTLD. And they have no real reason to switch.

So what happens is this: No landrush boost (or a very flat one) followed by disenchantment and the DotWhat? effect. The public does not even recognise or remember the TLD.

After that comes the Junk Dump (first anniversary when the highly speculative domains that could not be flipped are dropped). The percentage dropped can vary but there might be a few newbies ready to pick up the dropped domains but there may be no natural drops as the deleting domains might be hoovered up for auction by the registries or by large registrars.

The second anniversary is sometimes more lethal as it is the Hold'em or Fold'em time for those hanging on to their domains hoping for an increase in value.

Development and usage runs in parallel with all of this. If there is no significant development in the first six to eleven months, then the perception that the TLD is a Dead Zone will grow amongst prospective registrants. If you see registries providing dodgy figures about usage and PPC landing pages for undeveloped domains claimed to be simple redirects, then it is almost certain that there is a problem.

Regards...jmcc

---------- Post added at 05:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:47 AM ----------

For a large TLD with global appeal, this tends to happen after the first six months of operation. I'm not an expert on market values but there are compressed landrush phases visible with some of the new gTLDs and trends that take months to show up (e.g the big weekend slowdowns) are appearing within weeks.

With the variable registration fees and renewal rates, some of these new gTLDs will have a battle ahead to break 100K registration in a year.

Regards...jmcc

Using .mobi as an example, do you think the current market would be dramatically different if the registry had no held back Premium domains?

 

[Keith]

Using .mobi as an example, do you think the current market would be dramatically different if the registry had no held back Premium domains?

No, and it won't be different with this cash grab attempt either.

That's the problem. It's only a play to get money by forcing companies to protect their brand and sucker newbies who don't know any better. There isn't a long term strategy involved. But if we want the truth behind these extensions, just look at how much icann made!

Do you think it's wise for 1000 restaurants to open on the same block? A few might weather the storm but odds of success are slim :imho:

 

[jmcc]

Using .mobi as an example, do you think the current market would be dramatically different if the registry had no held back Premium domains?

No. They are not generally the same thing. The .mobi was massively promoted and backed. There's no sign of most of these new gTLDs being backed to the same extent. Some of them are extrapolations of domain tasting trends and the TLD string acts as a limiting factor. With TLDs like .com (and .mobi), the bulk of the creativity occurs left of the dot and the TLD string is only part of the name when it is a domain hack. The problem for many of these new gTLDs is that they are domain hacks. Using premiums to create some kind of initial market buzz might help their registration volume but the biggest problem for these new gTLDs will be public confusion and indifference.

Regards...jmcc

 

[scandiman]

No, and it won't be different with this cash grab attempt either.

That's the problem. It's only a play to get money by forcing companies to protect their brand and sucker newbies who don't know any better. There isn't a long term strategy involved. But if we want the truth behind these extensions, just look at how much icann made!

Do you think it's wise for 1000 restaurants to open on the same block? A few might weather the storm but odds of success are slim :imho:

Premiums and trademarks is two very different issues. I agree that the registries are likely hoping for a certain amount of default registration volume from the likes of apple, but that is far different from them holding premium keywords like dating, games, or whatever may be a strong keyword when paired with the given extension, and importantly what the registry does with them and their ongoing efforts (if any) long term.

But if you feel there is no change to the fate of a tld with or without a Premium name list then why does it matter either way to you?

Your restaurant example though is very interesting, there are plenty of examples of the benefits of clustering together competitors that lifts most boats. Take a malls food court for example, by bringing together 10-20 dining options the public views the court as a whole as a food destination as opposed to just one food vendor. It often works the same in neighborhoods as well, and zoning laws reflect the fact, at least that's how it works around these parts. We can visit certain neighborhoods around here that offer a multitude of dining options. Yes the various restaurants must compete but together they bring in many more customers for each as a dining destination than one could alone. A thousand restaurants is a totally different scale though. What this has to do with Premium names though escapes me, hopefully you cam connect the dots since its your example to begin with.

 

[scandiman]

No. They are not generally the same thing. The .mobi was massively promoted and backed. There's no sign of most of these new gTLDs being backed to the same extent. Some of them are extrapolations of domain tasting trends and the TLD string acts as a limiting factor. With TLDs like .com (and .mobi), the bulk of the creativity occurs left of the dot and the TLD string is only part of the name when it is a domain hack. The problem for many of these new gTLDs is that they are domain hacks. Using premiums to create some kind of initial market buzz might help their registration volume but the biggest problem for these new gTLDs will be public confusion and indifference.

Regards...jmcc

Yes, I agree there will be some initial confusion, that happens with any change. But the indifference aspect really comes down to useful content which is kinda the whole point of the web anyway. The public is indifferent to .anything until the content offered there is what is desired. In another thread I described how I regularly visit non-com websites on .aero, .coop, .mobi, .edu, .org, .gov, .net, .us, .travel, etc. I do so because that is where I find the desired content and don't struggle with the tld in the least. The landscape is already changing, this mass release will only push things further since useful content is bound to appear on these tlds. The public couldn't give a rats ass about a premium name list, it's just something domainers love to whine about and label a cash grab just because they themselves couldn't reg the name by hand and sell for their own profit.

 

[mjnels]

pretty much, and this nonsense about the public getting familiar with an extension, comfortable enough to use it... thats over. its done with. it had its chance when there were only a handful. it'll be about content... there can be "popular" content on a TLD with only 1,500 registrations - it doesnt matter and there isnt some time limit aside from the registry staying alive financially.. even that doesnt really matter since the TLD will likely get swallowed up by a donuts.co like entity thats already operating hundreds of TLD's... not gonna cost anything extra to add several more .weird's to their inventory

now with thousands about to exist the whole IDEA of getting familiar with a TLD is some weird domainer way of thinking from the past.

you guys that are obsessed with registration volume dont get it. registrations mean nothing. just like pretending whether its different that a domainer is holding all the valuable terms or the registry is holding all the valuable terms - it makes no difference.

also most of you guys talk like you're a stockholder in the registry or something... take a step back from your "numbers" and realize its not about volume anymore, it never really was.

 

[JB Lions]

pretty much, and this nonsense about the public getting familiar with an extension, comfortable enough to use it... thats over. its done with. it had its chance when there were only a handful. it'll be about content... there can be "popular" content on a TLD with only 1,500 registrations - it doesnt matter and there isnt some time limit aside from the registry staying alive financially.. even that doesnt really matter since the TLD will likely get swallowed up by a donuts.co like entity thats already operating hundreds of TLD's... not gonna cost anything extra to add several more .weird's to their inventory

now with thousands about to exist the whole IDEA of getting familiar with a TLD is some weird domainer way of thinking from the past.

you guys that are obsessed with registration volume dont get it. registrations mean nothing. just like pretending whether its different that a domainer is holding all the valuable terms or the registry is holding all the valuable terms - it makes no difference.

also most of you guys talk like you're a stockholder in the registry or something... take a step back from your "numbers" and realize its not about volume anymore, it never really was.

You're posting the same stuff that has already been taken apart. Numbers don't matter nonsense. Numbers are one of the reasons you aren't touching them and think (rightfully so) they're a bad investment for domainers.

Can the public visit any site regardless of extension? Can you find sites on any extension? YES. But from a domainer perspective, investing, you notice we're on a domaining forum, good? NO and you acknowledge that. Yet you still argue.

"there can be "popular" content on a TLD with only 1,500 registrations"

There can be but there is a better chance on TLDs with higher registrations. Again, stuff we've already gone over.

Since mj is a big number fan, some from yesterday from new gtlds, 20 and under

0 - voyage
3
3
3
4
4
4
4
6
7
7
8
9
9
10
10
11
11
12
13
13
14
15
16
17
19
20
20

tel had 275 with a net of 169

 

[mjnels]

You're posting the same stuff that has already been taken apart. Numbers don't matter nonsense. Numbers are one of the reasons you aren't touching them and think (rightfully so) they're a bad investment for domainers.

Can the public visit any site regardless of extension? Can you find sites on any extension? YES. But from a domainer perspective, investing, you notice we're on a domaining forum, good? NO and you acknowledge that. Yet you still argue.

"there can be "popular" content on a TLD with only 1,500 registrations"

There can be but there is a better chance on TLDs with higher registrations. Again, stuff we've already gone over.

well, you already posted this stuff too. you can "go over" stuff as much as you like.. it doesnt mean a consensus was reached.

you still have the wrong angle.

 

[Cool.Ventures]

I think it is a bad strategy for two reasons:
First, shelving "premium" inventory means that lots of domains will not be available to qualified end users (possibly through a RFP process), that could otherwise develop them into meaningful websites and enhance the standing of the TLD. TLDs don't shine without development.

Second, the market value can go down very quickly past the launch phase and when the excitement and initial interest has waned.
.mobi is the best known example.
In the first two years, a number of premium keywords sold for 6 figures (you remember one guy was actually willing to pay 600K for music.mobi until the auction crashed).
Then poof - nothing.

A few months ago, .mobi domains like realestate, properties, hotels have dropped and were snapped easily.
In the history of domaining, there has been never a TLD losing so much of its value.
The registry has retained an inventory of domains like sex.mobi, that could have fetched good money back in the day. Now they could barely give them away.

In other younger extensions, the value has not appreciated either: .biz .us or .info are worth even less than in the past.

.mobi is obsolete forever replaced by subdomains such as m.facebook.com and website design that is friendly for mobile devices as well as large monitors.