Dynadot

information Liquidate Domain Names Or Not, That Is The Question

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Perhaps you have decided to reduce the size of your domain portfolio and retain only the better names. Or you are scaling down, as you have less interest or time to devote to domain investing. Possibly you simply have less confidence in certain sectors or niches, and want to get rid of names in those sectors.

A key question is whether to simply let domain names expire, or should you try to liquidate them to recover some or all of your invested funds.

Pro and Con

Much of the time it makes sense to at least try to recover the funds you have invested in the names. I mean some money is better than none, right? Maybe. But it will take time to try to liquidate names, and is it really worth the effort for the amount that you are likely to get? I look at some typical numbers in the following section.

TonyNames (@blogspotter), chooses not to liquidate names he plans to drop. He makes the point that sometimes names will sell retail during those last few weeks when you would be liquidating the name, and those occasional retail sales make up for what you would have made liquidating.

Here is an example I made up to investigate that point. Let’s say you have a name listed for $3500 retail and you estimate the annual retail sell-through rate (STR) at 1%. If the time that the name is off retail listings for wholesale liquidation is 30 days, that means that the lost retail opportunity is valued at $3500*0.01*(30/365), or $2.88.
Image-Liquidate-Or-Not.png

Looking at the other side of the ledger, if we estimate that if the name sells wholesale it might fetch $40, and that the chance of that happening during the 30 day period is 10%. In this case it appears to be marginally worth selling wholesale, but that will evaporate if we consider the worth of our time, a topic covered in the next section.

Value For Your Time

Your time is worth money. Let’s say you are liquidating through an auction here at NamePros. There is time required to take the domain name down from retail marketplaces, preparing the auction listing to include the required and perhaps some optional information, managing the auction, and collecting payment, transferring the name, providing buyer feedback, etc.

I summarize this with some numbers in the following table. I estimated it would take 4 minutes total to go to several marketplaces and take down the retail listings, and about 8 minutes to start the auction thread. If you do a lot of auctions, and use a template, this can be less.

After a successful auction, you need to interact with the buyer, arrange for transfer of the name, close the auction thread, leave feedback, etc. I estimate this might require 10 minutes in total. Sure, it is sometimes less, but occasionally it takes longer if there is some issue with payment or transfer.
Image-Hour-Costs-Liquidation.png

The typical line in the table suggests that it might add to 22 minutes total, and, if I value my time at $15/hr, that would be $5.50. I also included a minimum estimate, but it still would be $2.50 per name, and a maximum model, that comes in at $7.75.

But those figures are optimistic, as it is possible the name will not sell at all. While the time required will be less, it won’t be zero. At the same time, some of this time will need to be spent whether you liquidate or simply let the name expire.

Bottom line as I see it, if you only expect to make $5 to $10 from a sale, it is probably not worth the time to try to liquidate. However, if you have a quality name that is probably liquid and would sell for $50 to $200 or more, it is worth the effort.

Of course, if you don’t place a dollar figure on your time, and enjoy interacting with the community and prefer to see the name going to another investor, it makes total sense to liquidate, even if you only expect a few dollars per name.

It can also make sense if you are very efficient in your liquidation listing, for example listing many names at the same price and with the same conditions in a single listing.

Ways To Liquidate On NamePros

You might consider various options for liquidating names here on NamePros.
  • Bargain Bin: If willing to sell the name for $20 or less, an easy way to list is in the Bargain Bin. You can list multiple names together as a package, but keep in mind that package deals must also total $20 or less.
  • Fixed Price: If you are selling names above the bargain bin limit, or want to put a package of names together that will be higher than the limit, your best choice is Fixed Price.
  • Auction: Perhaps most visibility will be found through an auction. Even for names that will end up selling for more, generally you need to start low, often $1, to get the auction rolling. That means there is some risk that your name will sell for a very low price. Make sure you have included precise answers to the required elements such as payment method(s), starting bid, increment, and auction ending.
The NamePros Blog covered some time ago Optimizing NamePros Auctions. Things like effective titles will help your auction get traction, and using bumps or a link in your signature to help get your auctions noticed.

Note that while the majority of auctions are regular bid up for single names, you have considerable flexibility in NamePros auctions format. The NamePros Blog article Optimizing NamePros Auctions gives you some suggestions.

No matter the format you use to sell your names, make sure you have read the Rules of NamePros and are in compliance.

Other Ways To Liquidate

There are options for domain name liquidation outside of NamePros. Here are some of them:
  • The Retail Marketplaces: One method that does not take much time is to simply reduce the price to liquidation level where you currently have the name listed. Dan have a minimum listing price of $99. Afternic do not have a specific minimum listing price, as far as I know, but there is a minimum commission of $15. I believe that Sedo still have their no minimum fee in place.
  • The Registrar: Many registrars have associated marketplaces, and this can be a handy way to try to liquidate names. Commissions are often around the 10% level, but check the details for your registrar. Namecheap allow listings as low as $5, and at Dynadot you can list for as little as $1. Sav limits fixed-price listings to $10 and up, although auctions always start at $1. Porkbun listings need to be at least $20. One advantage of selling at your registrar marketplace is that, for names registered there, it is easy when the name sells as it is automatically transferred to the buyer. Sav, and now Dynadot, allow you to list names registered elsewhere – the buyer will pay the transfer fee, in addition to the cost of the domain name. Sav, Dynadot, GoDaddy and NameSilo, among others, allow you to use auction format if you wish. Sav have by far the lowest commissions of the registrar marketplaces.
  • DNWE: The Domain Name Wholesale Exchange, DNWE, is intended for selling names wholesale to other investors. You need to be approved as a domain investor to access the marketplace. DNWE no longer uses a subscription model, and anyone can list up to 12 names per day, with listings staying active for 30 days, or until sold. Sales are closed through Dan, and the seller pays a 12% commission. There is no listing fee. The minimum price is $99. DNWE also offer a Dutch Auction format, where the price counts down, but with the same minimum. A very few names are selected as curated names, and those names get a lot more attention. Typically their marketplace recently has about 5000 names for sale at any time. Because it is a closed marketplace not visible to retail buyers, one can keep your names listed retail while they are liquidated on DNWE. It is easy to relist once the 30 day listing expires.
  • SquadHelp Wholesale: Those with SquadHelp accounts have access to the SquadHelp wholesale marketplace. Note that names sold there must stay as SquadHelp listings for a certain period. SquadHelp also recently opened the option to sell a portfolio of names via their wholesale marketplace. If you are selling names that are listed at a brandable marketplace make sure that you are allowed by the terms of service of that marketplace.
  • Your Own Website: You may find it effective to liquidate names directly from your own website, particularly if you have a social media presence within the domain community.
  • eBay: Some sell, and buy, domain names on eBay. You can have fixed price, if desired with best offer option, or sell them in auction format. The day I checked there were about 8000 domain names listed for sale.
Liquidation Pricing

The recent NamePros Blog article on Minimum Domain Pricing for Profitability is not relevant for names that you have decided to liquidate. That article was concerned with, on average, the minimum retail prices needed to assure portfolio-wide profitability under different assumptions.

In the case of liquidations, you are seeking to recover some funds, and the key question is how are similar names being priced in the wholesale markets.

If wanting to check prices, it is helpful to use NameBio with just the wholesale venues, like GoDaddy Auctions and NameJet, selected. Keep in mind that buyers typically pay more in expired auctions compared to similar names in user auctions or fixed price sales. If you have a NameBio membership, you can also access sales at prices less than $100.

When using NameBio for pricing comparators, keep in mind that you can set a pattern, such as LLLL for 4-letter .com, and also a Date Range.

Here at NamePros, it is helpful to monitor auctions or fixed price sections for a period prior to listing your own names, so you get an idea of typical wholesale pricing and probability of a successful sale.

Building a positive Feedback rating is important should you want to later sell more valuable names, and one way to start is with some successful liquidations.

Those with access to the Domain Academy, the GoDaddy GoValue tool provides, for a list of names, both the GoDaddy Valuation estimate plus a wholesale price estimate, along with sales probabilities for both retail and wholesale. I am not sure the factors they consider, but the wholesale value is not simply a constant fraction of the retail estimate.

While not directly on the topic of liquidation, the NamePros Blog article Sell Retail or Wholesale or Both? covers points relevant to this topic.

I hope that readers will comment below on what they find to be effective when liquidating domain names.

Update Nov 5, 2023
Mention of NameLiquidate removed, as it was pointed out (see below) that NameLiquidate no longer accepts new listings.
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
Interesting post, Bob! Thanks for sharing.

Domaining is an electrifying chess game in the vast digital landscape. We're cruising an extraordinary narrative here, intertwined with triumphs and tribulations, and a dash of that unpredictable drama that pops out when you're least braced for it.

Let's set the scene here. You've homed in on a top-tier domain, a real uncut gem in the rough, and dreams of striking digital gold are ricocheting around your head like a pinball machine. You're all in, having dropped a tidy sum through a sly aftermarket nab or even picking it straight off the vine at a domain registrar.

Hold up, though. Reality's on the line, and it's a collect call. All those grand visions you've been kicking around aren’t lining up with your real-world pay dirt. Tick-tock goes the clock, and the expiration date is coming at you faster than a nitro-fueled drag racer.

So, where does that leave you? Dumbfounded in a pickle, that's where. You're caught between a rock and a hard place, choosing between letting your potential cash cow drift off into the sunset of expired domains or, biting the bullet to sell it for less, way less than the Vegas jackpot you dreamed of. Still, something's better than zilch, right?

This ain't child’s play, let me tell you. Having nurtured this domain for donkey's years, it’s like letting go of a piece of yourself. Tossing a hail Mary into the choppy waves and hoping it washes ashore with some salvageable goods. Extra tricky when you're holding the hot potato of 'premium' domains. These high-rollers come with big, fat premium pricings. Years of pumping greenbacks into this digital gold mine, and for what? To watch it flutter away, sold at a blue-light special? That's gut-wrenching.

Still, remember folks, in the dice-roll of domain reselling, timing turns pro. Knowing when to plug the leak to avoid sinking the ship is a tough call, and let's face it, there's no guaranteed golden ticket in this lottery.

Here's the real kicker. You can't let stubbornness get the better of you. Sometimes a low-ball offer rolls in that's at least double your spent dollars, even if it's a far cry from the fancy figures you’d fantasized about. When you're juggling hundreds of domains and clambering to whittle down those pesky renewal costs, it requires some hard-nosed decision making.

Say, for instance, you're stuck in a cycle, cycling those annual renewal bills year after year, repelling offers like they're radioactive. With a rigidity that could win you an Ironman competition, ignoring decade's worth of decent offers. When the fiscal pressure's on, you’re suddenly flogging off domains for pennies on the dollar. This ain’t doing no favors for your peace of mind or the reputation of our industry. How's that for a harsh wake-up call?

So, cut to the chase. Don't watch your domains gather dust on the expired shelf because you're stuck in a holding pattern. Be nimble, be flexible. Shake hands on those decent offers, even if it ain't your dream deal. Stay real, keep your chin up, enjoy what you rake in and roll with it.

Embracing this mindset trims your annual renewal costs, puts wins on the board and frees up your finance for a multi-year renewal spree on those exclusive domains you just can't let slip for less. The game ain’t over till it’s over. Stay frosty and attentive out there, the digital domain terrain awaits your next move!
 
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I may write more fully about it when I have had time to use it longer, but relevant to the topic of liquidation using the main marketplaces, the Afternic Beta Search, which has just opened for those who have GD Domain Discount Club memberships, has overnight made it easier for people to search for names that may be priced at wholesale levels. You can search by length, registered TLDs, age, price range, number of registered TLDs, etc.

Several experienced investors have already commented that they have used it and found some names that they purchased. It is now much easier for people to find your names using parameters that investors often use for filtering.

It is version 0.1 so will probably have a few rough edges. I just have the basic version of the Domain Discount Club and it is available on that plan. Anyway, thought I would point it out. It was just released this week.

-Bob
 
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The problem with liquidation is you will generally only sell the better domains.

If the domains you are offering are not decent quality, there is not likely to be a buyer at any price.

So you basically sell your better domains well below retail and are stuck with the lesser ones.

Also, there are other factors like liquidity. Not every format can be judged based on STR.

The higher quality the format, the higher the liquid value.

Formats like single word .com, LLL, CVCV, NNN, NNNN, etc. have a very high floor vs random "brands".

Brad
What is CVCV?
 
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@Bob Hawkes
Thanks, This is one great contribution to platform. Good one on liquidation.
How auctions on NP can be improved?
 
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Anyone here have any success liquidating via DNWE?
I have not for quite a while, but lifetime have sold 6 there (1 .org, 1 .com, 1 .cloud and 3 .vc) All were single word except for one a 3L.
 
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you can't count your hourly wage as your opportunity cost. Because you are a trader not a worker. There is no labor market for traders where you can sell your hours. Trading involves high risk. One of the most extreme example of trading is gambling. When you play casino games as a gambler, you can't count your hourly wage as your opportunity cost. Simply because nobody will hire you as a gambler, there is no labor market for those services. There are high risk labor marketplaces but those risks are insured by insurance companies or governmental social security systems.

Time of traders has no value. Because nobody buys it. There is no opportunity cost to be considered. You are not a dentist, plumber, driver after all. Nobody will pay you for your time or service. Trader and broker are not doing the same thing.

Even if you disregard the fact above, worldwide hourly wages vary too much. Domain trading is a global business.

Counting your time as a cost is totally wrong.
 
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Anyone here have any success liquidating via DNWE?
 
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An interesting view (I gave your post a thank because it challenged me to think in a new way). I looked at traders for other speculative items, like day trading of stocks, and definitely people pay traders for those. e.g. GlassDoor on the basis of openings suggest an average base pay (before performance bonuses) of $59k to $105k per year for day traders. https://www.glassdoor.ca/Salaries/day-trader-salary-SRCH_KO0,10.htm That is not domain traders, so does not directly refute you point, but I disagree on more fundamental grounds, please see below.


I agree, and sorry if that was not stressed adequately. Clearly each person would have their own figure, which could be as low as $0 if they view this as a hobby.



I disagree. Time spent on something is time taken from something else, and that has a value we should not overlook. That something else could be in domain investing (e.g. research on potential acquisitions or better listing and presentation of names) that would yield a probable return, or it could be in a person's other job. Even if there is no other job, time still has a value, since time spent on one thing, like liquidations, is time not spent with family or friends, or other things that you treasure. As @william reminded us in his well-argued post: Is Your Time Worth Anything?

But thanks once more for a position that made me think. If everyone on NamePros agreed on everything, it would not be as interesting, or valuable, place to spend some time. :xf.smile:

-Bob

Wording is wrong in that job ad. They are not looking to hire day trader. They are looking to hire a broker who earns commission or fixed income with zero or little risks if the trade ends up with loss. Trader pays the loss in full with his/her own means OR takes the profit in full minus operational costs. Trader does trade, broker works for others with almost nothing to lose except his/her job.

Traders don't make or loss money based on time and efforts they spend. Traders make the most money for the risk they take. The most extreme example would be gambling. Betting $1 per hour for 10,000 hours vs $10,000 in 1 hour would result in similar amount of profit/loss. 10,000 or 1 million or 1 billion hour effort is equal to 1 hour effort for traders. The time passing between buying and selling is a cost. I think we aren't talking about that.

Hourly wages can vary 200x in two different parts of World. This is another problem. Your 1 hour maybe worth $100 or $300. But if you relocate to another country your same 1 hour maybe worth less than $1. Forget about countries for a moment, in 2 different regions of the same city, wages can easily vary 10x. So, you can't price your 1 hour correctly for 10x, 100x, 200x difference between the max and min values. Taking the median wouldn't help either. If there was an established labor market in domain business, employers would likely hire domainers for couple of dollars per day. Domainers would work remotely over the internet. In the best scenario, if we assumed there is opportunity cost, it would be around $50-100 per month.

How much is $50-100 per month exactly? For comparison,
- renewal cost of a domain is $1 per month. Dropping 40-50 domains would save $50 per month.
- registering 10 less domains per month would save $100 per month.
- selling a $500 domain per month directly without paying 20% commission to afternic/sedo would save $100 per month.

One more important detail, if someone works for others, making loss from trade attempts will be more likely than making profit. You can't become a worker and a trader at the same time. I know there are success stories of billionaires, but those are very lucky people to be in the right time at the right place. Unless you are very lucky it can't happen to you and that's why those are success stories, because happening very rarely.

Effort, how many hours worked, is not a cost in trade. However waiting to make sale is a cost. In trade you get nothing for your efforts, get paid for waiting without doing almost nothing. If you were a worker you would be fired if you get caught while doing nothing. Boss and worker are like apples and oranges. Being a domainer makes you boss. Once you make profit from a buy-sell activity, you can't become happy with being worker. Being a reseller or trader or boss is one way ticket, you can't turn back easily. Nobody wants to hire a boss and a boss doesn't want to be hired. Those are 2 very different worlds. Black in world of worker is white in world of boss, apple for worker is orange for boss.

In order to count something as a cost, it must belong to the same world, either worker or boss world. Wage doesn't belong to world of bosses. Paying 20% commission to marketplaces don't belong to world of workers. In that job ad, commissions paid to capital/money markets, or paying office rent aren't cost for the person who will apply to that "trader" position.

Sorry for taking time for this long post. This is indeed a broader concept than I wrote here.
 
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