Y'all wanna shoot the moon?

[Rob Monster]

ICYMI, during October, Epik sold 3 domains above $250,000.

In the interest of helping folks sell more domains for bigger money, I want to share openly what I think works pretty well when responding to retail inquiries.

Here are my two go-to response templates for answering inbound inquiries:

Template #1

Hello <firstname>,

Thanks for the inquiry.

Names of this caliber routinely sell for over $100,000.

We also sometimes do domain leases with a purchase option.

If you have budget, I will do my best to get something done for you.

Happy to advise.

Regards,
Rob



Template #2

Hello <firstname>,

Thanks for the inquiry.

You are probably looking at well into 5 figures USD for this domain.

Alternatively, it is likely possible to do a lease with a purchase option or seller-finance.

Depending on your budget, happy to advise.

Regards,
Rob


Obviously, if you have some specific comment about the domain or about the person inquiring about the prospect, that can be helpful, but usually this is a great way to just see how high is up.

During October, we saw a 2 word domain sell for $253,750. By most standards, this domain was absolutely nothing special. The domain was however strategic to the buyer.

A lot of purchase prospects end up becoming leases and financings, depending on the budget situation of the buyer. The point is to never underestimate how high is up. It is much better to: Shoot the moon!

And now you know!

 

[Rob Monster]

Does it workout without transfer, too? I know I can add external domains, but did not yet.

Yes, absolutely, just set DNS. Your account is already approved for selling and parking external domains. Each domain gets a SSL lander with a unique SSL certificate.

So you just set the DNS but don't need to move the domains. After you get a big sale, you can use your sale proceeds to fund bulk transfers if you like. PM me if you need help. It is easy to set up.

@domainexpert77 is also standing by to help you tune up the SEO on those landers.

 

[Blitzpotz]

Thanks Rob.

Should I add a Disclaimer that this is no curated promo thing, I am no paid troll or so-called fanboy? No, it would be insulting. And unfair because similar discussions with other registrars and marketers are impossible here and so would be the disclaimer for them.

 

[Ategy]

If the buyer thinks you are rich and don't need the money, they will consider that indeed, you don't really care if they buy it or not. So, in many cases I am responding on behalf of clients with bcc to them. And I think my close rate for bigger amounts is probably better than others.

While I'm still relatively new, and don't have hundreds of sales under my belt yet, I've found that my most optimal sales have been when I've been truly honest and genuine ... meaning that if they say it's too expensive, just tell them that they may indeed be right and while the value of the domain is high, it might not be the right fit for them.

Using that tactic one should note it generally works because generally buyers are bluffing on what they say initially as their initial limit spend .. but since you're nice and genuine with them and it seems like you don't care about the sale .. then they are very limited in how they can counter.

Keep in mind every buyer is different and what works for one might not for the other ..

All that said .. when it comes to moonshots .. you really REALLY need to select the right domains ... while it's great that Rob has had a few via Epik ... it's also important to note that that is based on a huge number of domains with landers (100k+?). So if there are 10 such sales a year on 100k domains, it means 1 such sale every 10 years if you have 1,000 domains .. and the quality needs to be there as well.

Although saying that, I suppose a lot of the 100k are probably not very good .. so with a great portfolio maybe your odds are better?

@Rob Monster .. what sorts of global stats are you able to share?

 

[BradWilson]

Okay Rob, I have a possible Moonshot candidate which could use your rocket fuel

It's a 7 character, 1 word dot com term for a specific product. I hand regged it way back in 2001 and there are at least 2 fairly well known companies that use a version of this term.

I should also mention that this term has a couple product related meanings and a famous celebrity uses a version of this term.

One company let's say company A is using the exact term only in another extension, the other company or company B is using a typo of the term.

For the last several years I've been receiving many of company B's customer support emails and have directed the customers to the "correct" domain. The customers are thrilled to get my reply because they usually don't get a response that fast.

Several times an employee of company B has signed up to a website using my domain and if I wasn't as ethical as I am, I could have hacked their accounts many times.

One time I even had a bank contact me to update their billing and I called the bank to let them know of this error. The bank employee was very nice in thanking me for being so honest and helpful with this error.

So basically company B really needs my domain.

I originally got the domain to create an online storefront or affiliate portal - remember this was 2001

So any tips to shoot the moon?

 

[Rob Monster]

Okay Rob, I have a possible Moonshot candidate which could use your rocket fuel

It's a 7 character, 1 word dot com term for a specific product. I hand regged it way back in 2001 and there are at least 2 fairly well known companies that use a version of this term.

I should also mention that this term has a couple product related meanings and a famous celebrity uses a version of this term.

One company let's say company A is using the exact term only in another extension, the other company or company B is using a typo of the term.

For the last several years I've been receiving many of company B's customer support emails and have directed the customers to the "correct" domain. The customers are thrilled to get my reply because they usually don't get a response that fast.

Several times an employee of company B has signed up to a website using my domain and if I wasn't as ethical as I am, I could have hacked their accounts many times.

One time I even had a bank contact me to update their billing and I called the bank to let them know of this error. The bank employee was very nice in thanking me for being so honest and helpful with this error.

So basically company B really needs my domain.

I originally got the domain to create an online storefront or affiliate portal - remember this was 2001

So any tips to shoot the moon?

For starters, I would recommend the SSL landers. If you think you should be getting inbound inquiries but are not getting them then I would evaluate how intuitive the landing page for signaling your appetite to receive inquiries for sale or lease.

As for the email leakage issue, a bank should be extremely concerned here about the implied risk or liability associated with this domain falling into the wrong hands.

If it is a small bank, forward the CEO a sample email that fell into your hands.

If it is a large bank, try to find the security compliance officer.

The key point is to not approach the dialog from a threatening standpoint but as an ombudsman, concerned about an operating risk that they may have not disclosed to their shareholders.

If you do use the Epik landers, we'll actually do it for you. We are adding brokers who are getting trained in how to handle such cases.

 

[winst]

This thread is interesting.

I'm trying this "moonshot" for the last couple of years. So far it was a mixed bag. I've sold 1 for 20k, and had many walks that had offered at most, a few hundreds $.

I may mix it up a little, only apply the "moonshot" strategy for the best of my domains, just to get some extra money in the bank.

I have one domain that gets weekly $5k offers, of course I'm asking for big $$$.

 

[Rob Monster]

This thread is interesting.

I'm trying this "moonshot" for the last couple of years. So far it was a mixed bag. I've sold 1 for 20k, and had many walks that had offered at most, a few hundreds $.

I may mix it up a little, only apply the "moonshot" strategy for the best of my domains, just to get some extra money in the bank.

I have one domain that gets weekly $5k offers, of course I'm asking for big $$$.

If you use our SSL lander, we'll help you with the engagement and cc or bcc you if you want to be along for the ride there. The naysayers who rely on Namebio as their authority are completely missing the point, especially when it comes to short names and brandable names and names where you prevail in UDRP though not everyone has patience or stomach for that. We are thinking about a solution for the UDRP case.

 

[Recons.Com]

@Rob Monster

I'd try the method with few hundred names, but I'd like some stats shared.

For sales in xx,xxx to xxx,xxx how many have been closed via Epik ssl landers? How many total names are "make offer" with that kind of price expectations?

If you have hundreds of thousands of names listed as make offer with 5 figure quoting expected, of course you will have handful to tell the stories about. But that won't make it a good business, right?

So should we assume that if you are recommending it, the lowered sell through (and we know that just having make offer instead of bin, lowers sell through, while 5 figure ask will probably give you small fraction) is compensated well enough by the average sale price increase?

So, if my normal sell through for better names is 1% but I average $5K per sale, I'd be fine with my sell through dropping to 0.2% if my average sale price goes to $25K. That way my revenue is the same, while I get to keep 80% of the names that would have been gone.

The problem with your threads is that besides mentioning few sales numbers, you provide zero data for an informed decision.

 

[Rob Monster]

@Rob Monster

I'd try the method with few hundred names, but I'd like some stats shared.

For sales in xx,xxx to xxx,xxx how many have been closed via Epik ssl landers? How many total names are "make offer" with that kind of price expectations?

If you have hundreds of thousands of names listed as make offer with 5 figure quoting expected, of course you will have handful to tell the stories about. But that won't make it a good business, right?

So should we assume that if you are recommending it, the lowered sell through (and we know that just having make offer instead of bin, lowers sell through, while 5 figure ask will probably give you small fraction) is compensated well enough by the average sale price increase?

So, if my normal sell through for better names is 1% but I average $5K per sale, I'd be fine with my sell through dropping to 0.2% if my average sale price goes to $25K. That way my revenue is the same, while I get to keep 80% of the names that would have been gone.

The problem with your threads is that besides mentioning few sales numbers, you provide zero data for an informed decision.

It is true. I don't report stats and don't report sales. You'll have to deal with that. I do share what works. You can test it yourself.

You are a clever one. If you can design your own SSL landers and respond to your inquiries, and don't need fully automated leasing, and can do crypto-escrow.

Alternatively, if you want to take 100 randomly selected names that you know you are keeping, you can put them on Epik landers and we'll see how things go. I bet we outperform and that will be all you need to know.

 

[Recons.Com]

It is true. I don't report stats and don't report sales. You'll have to deal with that. I do share what works. You can test it yourself.

You are a clever one. If you can design your own SSL landers and respond to your inquiries, and don't need fully automated leasing, and can do crypto-escrow.

Alternatively, if you want to take 100 randomly selected names that you know you are keeping, you can put them on Epik landers and we'll see how things go. I bet we outperform and that will be all you need to know.

Fair enough. Although I am not the type that goes experimenting at everything assuming that my time is free and my opportunity cost is zero. Meaning, I currently have most my 4L dot coms at Uniregistry landers, so switching might mean loss of sales, if Epik ones underperform or shooting to the moon kills few realistic nice sales for me.

But for the sake of argument, I will split my names from U and place with E and see how it goes.

How do I create ssl landers at Epik for names at GD?

 

[Rob Monster]

Fair enough. Although I am not the type that goes experimenting at everything assuming that my time is free and my opportunity cost is zero. Meaning, I currently have most my 4L dot coms at Uniregistry landers, so switching might mean loss of sales, if Epik ones underperform or shooting to the moon kills few realistic nice sales for me.

But for the sake of argument, I will split my names from U and place with E and see how it goes.

How do I create ssl landers at Epik for names at GD?

Here are the steps:

1. Add domains to your account: Domains --> Add Domains

2. Change DNS to NS3.EPIK.COM and NS4.EPIK.COM.

3. Set domains to make offer. See here.

4. Parking domains with SSL landers. See here.

Or contact @epik for support and we'll do it for you.

This process works if your account is approved for selling non-Epik domains. If you are not, just ask and we'll enable it. Or transfer to Epik -- transfer promo is $7.49 now. Promos here. .COM transfer will likely be $6.99 tomorrow -- some whales are coming in.

 

[winst]

Hi Rob,

Even with the templates and trying to be consultative, I think many people will have sticker shock and ghosting after initial communication. Is that your experience as well? It seems like everyone has the same $5k budget for the initial offers. They all most read the same domain negotiation book.

 

[Rob Monster]

Hi Rob,

Even with the templates and trying to be consultative, I think many people will have sticker shock and ghosting after initial communication. Is that your experience as well? It seems like everyone has the same $5k budget for the initial offers. They all most read the same domain negotiation book.

No, not at all.

Two things:

1. If they say "no way", then push the lease. If they say "must own", then you find out their max offer. You can then decide whether or not that number is big enough. Win-win. They paid what was worth to them and you did not waste time negotiating from $100.

2. If they don't reply, then 2-3 days later, you chase it with a followup note asking if there is anything further to discuss. That will usually get the conversation going and perhaps without the initial sticker shock.

This does work. Keep in mind, most people just need 1 big sale to cover their entire renewal nut and living expenses for a year so it is worth doing.

It does help to get the upper hand, e.g. if it is an older registration that pre-dates any trademark filing, then point that out.

If you can find out who the person is that is contacting you, make reference to something personal about them that shows that you understand why the domain must be strategic for them.

Ultimately, the goal is to get to a win-win. They get a domain that advances their objectives. You get a price or terms that advances yours. Everybody wins.

 

[Joe N]

No, not at all.

Two things:

1. If they say "no way", then push the lease. If they say "must own", then you find out their max offer. You can then decide whether or not that number is big enough. Win-win. They paid what was worth to them and you did not waste time negotiating from $100.

2. If they don't reply, then 2-3 days later, you chase it with a followup note asking if there is anything further to discuss. That will usually get the conversation going and perhaps without the initial sticker shock.

This does work. Keep in mind, most people just need 1 big sale to cover their entire renewal nut and living expenses for a year so it is worth doing.

It does help to get the upper hand, e.g. if it is an older registration that pre-dates any trademark filing, then point that out.

If you can find out who the person is that is contacting you, make reference to something personal about them that shows that you understand why the domain must be strategic for them.

Ultimately, the goal is to get to a win-win. They get a domain that advances their objectives. You get a price or terms that advances yours. Everybody wins.

Lots of interesting information to consider here, Rob. Appreciate you sharing your experience and advice.

In terms of leasing with option to own - Do you typically allow lease payments to count toward eventual purchase price? (E.g. if the buyer leases a $50K name for 50 months at $1,000 per month, they then own the name outright). Would be interested in hearing the reasoning behind whichever approach you take, as it's something I have considered in past negotiations.

 

[Rob Monster]

Lots of interesting information to consider here, Rob. Appreciate you sharing your experience and advice.

In terms of leasing with option to own - Do you typically allow lease payments to count toward eventual purchase price? (E.g. if the buyer leases a $50K name for 50 months at $1,000 per month, they then own the name outright). Would be interested in hearing the reasoning behind whichever approach you take, as it's something I have considered in past negotiations.

Most leases do not have payments go to principal. However, we have done both.

Leases: No contribution to principal

Financing: Payments go to principal.

There are a lot of options to configure. See screen shot:

It is pretty versatile, but to answer your question, when it is not a sale, it is usually a lease with a purchase option including a deal that closed earlier this week with a $3500/month lease and a $625,000 purchase option for a 6 letter dictionary word .COM.

Sometimes payment plans default, in which case the registrant usually keeps the funds, e.g. a purchase plan for another 7 letter .COM which defaulted after more than $50K in progress payments. The registrant keeps the funds and the domain.

 

[Rob Monster]

Quick update on this poll:

Most of you are about shooting the moon -- swinging for the fences. A few people have a sense of humor. And a few people are card-carrying members of the #partypooper club.

The good news is that a few folks are keen to master this essential selling skill. If folks have domains on Epik, or use Epik SSL landers, I will happily help you with this and cc or bcc you.

Happy hunting.

 

[Windoms]

Quick update on this poll:

Show attachment 135736

Most of you are about shooting the moon -- swinging for the fences. A few people have a sense of humor. And a few people are card-carrying members of the #partypooper club.

The good news is that a few folks are keen to master this essential selling skill. If folks have domains on Epik, or use Epik SSL landers, I will happily help you with this and cc or bcc you.

Happy hunting.

You could add that people with lots of quality domains are the ones that should ''shoot the moon''.
New domainers shouldn't.
I'm guessing epik was built with expert domainers in mind.
Along the way you started attracting newcomers because of cheap registration prices.
A lot have heard your speech about life changing money.
You should make sure they know that some of your expert tactics are for experts who know what they are doing (acquisition + domain count).
If you have some experience and 50 descent domains, selling at $1500 BIN and making a deal at even $500 with a chance to sell and grow is better that ''shooting the moon'' at $50.000. You learn diligently by applying fair prices to descent domains. Speculating early on only slows you down.
I like domain investing because even if you have expertise from another industry, you still have to spend time and money before you know what you are acquiring and how to price it correctly.
Having $1.000 vs $50.000 on day 1 won't help with that learning curve.
Shooting the lottery and winning $20.000 on day 1 only helps if you want to build a house in a poor country, but let's face it that will never happen because newcomers don't know what they are doing.
Make sure they know your tips are not everyone so that they can get to the stage where they can afford to shoot the moon.

 

[Rob Monster]

You could add that people with lots of quality domains are the ones that should ''shoot the moon''.
New domainers shouldn't.
I'm guessing epik was built with expert domainers in mind.
Along the way you started attracting newcomers because of cheap registration prices.
A lot have heard your speech about life changing money.
You should make sure they know that some of your expert tactics are for experts who know what they are doing (acquisition + domain count).
If you have some experience and 50 descent domains, selling at $1500 BIN and making a deal at even $500 with a chance to sell and grow is better that ''shooting the moon'' at $50.000. You learn diligently by applying fair prices to descent domains. Speculating early on only slows you down.
I like domain investing because even if you have expertise from another industry, you still have to spend time and money before you know what you are acquiring and how to price it correctly.
Having $1.000 vs $50.000 on day 1 won't help with that learning curve.
Shooting the lottery and winning $20.000 on day 1 only helps if you want to build a house in a poor country, but let's face it that will never happen because newcomers don't know what they are doing.
Make sure they know your tips are not everyone so that they can get to the stage where they can afford to shoot the moon.

Of course, that is correct. The upcoming Domain Graduate 2.0 course will make that more clear.

The audience on NamePros includes mostly pro or experienced domainers that know that the model being described is optimized for non-hyphenated .COM.

That said, I think you would be surprised how many 2-word .COM domains sell for more than $100K. When we see an incoming offer we try to assess if it is a moonshot candidate.

Keep in mind also that the fallback position is to offer a lease, which most people don't do but should start doing since it is a way to back into a moonshot while having recurring income.

Emerging market people who are more long on time than cash can certainly spend extra time finding the prospects. If they can't afford to buy it, they can partner with people who can.

The point of the thread is to make clear that as wealth concentrates into fewer wealthy hands, the people who can buy are often the ones where money is less of an object. If you don't occasionally sell to them you will lose.

 

[Recons.Com]

With all due respect, until there are some disclosed sales, it should be taken with a grain of salt that two word .coms regularly sell for 6 figures.

Namebio is probably getting 10-30% of all sales reported, and here is the list of 6 figure word+word names in 2019:

medidata.com 600K
bettingodds.com 488K
domainnames.com 370K
joyride.com 300K
accidentattorney.com 150K
mortgagerefinancing.com 148K
bestdeals.com 105K

and... that is it!!!

7 names for the whole world for the whole year!!! Including unreported, probably 20 to 70 sales for the year. Excluding mortgagerefinancing and joyride, the rest are clearly high value, not from the category you are referring too - a mediocre name that is valuable to a specific company.

And yet you want everyone to go ahead and price their average domains very high based just on your word with ZERO facts to support the claim.

Are you claiming that Epik is seeing far more sales and of different type than Namebio is able to report for everyone else in this world?!

 

[Rob Monster]

With all due respect, until there are some disclosed sales, it should be taken with a grain of salt that two word .coms regularly sell for 6 figures.

Namebio is probably getting 10-30% of all sales reported, and here is the list of 6 figure word+word names in 2019:

medidata.com 600K
bettingodds.com 488K
domainnames.com 370K
joyride.com 300K
accidentattorney.com 150K
mortgagerefinancing.com 148K
bestdeals.com 105K

and... that is it!!!

7 names for the whole world for the whole year!!! Including unreported, probably 20 to 70 sales for the year. Excluding mortgagerefinancing and joyride, the rest are clearly high value, not from the category you are referring too - a mediocre name that is valuable to a specific company.

And yet you want everyone to go ahead and price their average domains very high based just on your word with ZERO facts to support the claim.

Are you claiming that Epik is seeing far more sales and of different type than Namebio is able to report for everyone else in this world?!

Here is the short of it:

- Most large sales are not reported. I am very sure this is the case and the big premium domain owners will privately tell you the same.

- I don't suggest to price most names where there is some possibility that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, notably names that could be brands for businesses or product lines.

- Selling consultatively is more work and does require a strategic approach and ideally some fluency in the language of the person who is inquiring about the domani.

As for whether or not you believe me, that is entirely your prerogative. I am sharing what I know to work but frankly acknowledge that there are many success formulas. That is why I invited co-creation here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/teach-a-man-to-fish-co-creating-abundance.1162792/