Y'all wanna shoot the moon?

[Rob Monster]

ICYMI, during October, Epik sold 3 domains above $250,000.

In the interest of helping folks sell more domains for bigger money, I want to share openly what I think works pretty well when responding to retail inquiries.

Here are my two go-to response templates for answering inbound inquiries:

Template #1

Hello <firstname>,

Thanks for the inquiry.

Names of this caliber routinely sell for over $100,000.

We also sometimes do domain leases with a purchase option.

If you have budget, I will do my best to get something done for you.

Happy to advise.

Regards,
Rob



Template #2

Hello <firstname>,

Thanks for the inquiry.

You are probably looking at well into 5 figures USD for this domain.

Alternatively, it is likely possible to do a lease with a purchase option or seller-finance.

Depending on your budget, happy to advise.

Regards,
Rob


Obviously, if you have some specific comment about the domain or about the person inquiring about the prospect, that can be helpful, but usually this is a great way to just see how high is up.

During October, we saw a 2 word domain sell for $253,750. By most standards, this domain was absolutely nothing special. The domain was however strategic to the buyer.

A lot of purchase prospects end up becoming leases and financings, depending on the budget situation of the buyer. The point is to never underestimate how high is up. It is much better to: Shoot the moon!

And now you know!

 

[bmugford]

Business Model #1

Ask crazy high prices, sell a domain here or there maybe.
The Mike Mann model.

Business Model #2

Selling domains consistently for great returns.

I like the second model a lot better. It is far more repeatable for the average domain investor.
The amount of great offers you need to turn down to get a ridiculous one is a lot.

Brad

 

[Rob Monster]

@Rob Monster thanks for sharing this! I could have used this not too long ago I responded to an offer with “Only entertaining 5 figures and up”. I forgot to even leave a line about leasing options. Also the way you close it, is much more inviting. I like it.

I will try this next time.

Thanks

Right, the point is that you are not selling a domain, you are selling a solution to the person's problem. You are presumably not just a domain owner, but also a subject matter expert on domaining. So, if they will engage the dialog, you can:

- Sell them your name
- Lease or finance them your name
- Find out their exact objectives and flip them someone else's name for a profit
- Make a new friend who knows you are a subject matter expert

No hard sell. Consultative advice.

A lot of folks are a fan of Sandler method of selling. I am not because it comes across as trite and canned. Forget method selling. Just be authentic about getting to the win-win.

 

[Rob Monster]

Business Model #1

Ask crazy high prices, sell a domain here or there maybe.
The Mike Mann model.

Business Model #2

Selling domains consistently for great returns.

I like the second model a lot better. It is far more repeatable for the average domain investor.
The amount of great offers you need to turn down to get a ridiculous one is a lot.

Brad

Try reading next time. What did I say?

I just did a deal tonight -- asking price was $625,000. The buyer will lease for $3500 per month with a purchase option at $625,000. I led with the buy now but closed with lease/option.

You have options -- use all the tools in your toolbox and see if you can retire a little earlier so you can go work on your ..... CALLING:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/so...t-do-domain-names-have-to-do-with-it.1161411/

 

[asxforum]

Y'all wanna shoot the moon?

Yes this is fine if you have other income options . I dont have that option and need to sell domains at times just to put food on the table .

 

[Rob Monster]

So we never know which domain name is special to others?

 

[oldtimer]

I must admit that I don’t have much experience with big domain sales personally, but over the years I have learned a few things by reading about domains and domaining which makes me come up with the following conclusion:

The domain Industry is like an Eco System which includes the bottom feeders who buy and sell domains for a few dollars profit all the way up to those who operate in the stratosphere who handle millions of transactions per year and then we also have many different levels in between. The big fish prey on the smaller fish in this Eco System by buying their domains on the cheap and selling it for much more than they could have done so themselves or by selling all those new gold prospectors tools and equipment of the trade and encouraging them (whether truthfully or falsely which is up for debate) that there is gold in them hills to give the smaller fish hope for registering and buying more and more domains.

Now there are some real opportunities in domaining at all levels, but for one thing any discussion about domain sales has to happen between people at the same level otherwise what each side is saying is going to come across as being wrong or crazy to others. For another thing certain successes that are happening at the higher levels by the big fish can not easily be duplicated at the lower levels by the smaller fish because just being a big fish makes a lot of difference in how successful a domainer can be. The big fish because of their already established financial situations can easily turn down lower offers in order to obtain those six or seven figure domain sales which a smaller fish would never be able or willing to do and will most likely end up surrendering their domains at a lot lower amounts even if they happen to have come up with a nice domain by chance. So I say to each their own when it comes to domain sales and strategies as everyone might actually be right with their claims at their own level.

And in conclusion I say shoot for the moon If you have the guts and If you can afford it.

IMO

 

[Recons.Com]

Better advice would be stick to reasonable pricing within the sweet spot of 1500 to 5000 for most of your names to provide regular cash flow. Feel free to select the best 10% of your names and go crazy with the pricing there. You can then compare the outcome in couple of years which model gave you better returns and then adjust the ratio accordingly.

 

[Rob Monster]

Cool story.

This seems like another thread that is just an obvious promotion for Epik and their services.

Brad

I am sharing what works so that others can scale it.

If you want desperate sellers with weak hands to undercut you with cheap inventory, that's fine. I rather make the pie a lot bigger by teaching people to:

1. Price for value not for cost

2. Provide flexible financing for those who need it.


The result is:

1. Windfall incomes now and then

2. Recurring income from leases.


Ask @DanSanchez about it. He went from being a weak-handed seller to being strong-handed with a single lease of a 2-word domain that covers his monthly nut just from monthly leasing income on one domain.

Yeah, Brad, I make this stuff up. Sure I do. Please stop teaching people to play yesterday's hits. With all due respect, CPC is about as current as that disco ball in the attic.

 

[Rob Monster]

Hello Rob. Thank you for the domain report sales, and for the response templates for answering inbound inquiries.

Did they pay the $253,750 in one payment, or it was a lease with a purchase option? Thanks

One transaction. Wire transfer.

 

[Ategy]

@bmugford and @Rob Monster .. you both aren't right or wrong .. both types of strategies can work depending on the specific domains.

All that said .. it's never a good idea to base your choice off of just a few reported sales .. we don't know the size or quality of Mike Mann's portfolio (or is that public?), nor Rick's .. nor Rob's or Brad's for that matter .. lol.

So nobody can really judge a strategy a success or failure without knowing all the details of the entire portfolio.

That being said .. congrats on the sale big Rob!

More importantly .. thanks for the email templates .. one of the biggest obstacles that makes domainers not reach out to people, is the fear of getting it wrong. I've used genuine and strategic methods to close sales .. the most important thing is trying to figure out who the buyer is ... but given lack of enough information, I tend to the nice-guy genuine win-win approach!

 

[JB Lions]

All that said .. it's never a good idea to base your choice off of just a few reported sales .. we don't know the size or quality of Mike Mann's portfolio (or is that public?),

It's public, you can go right to his site and download the names. He's been putting info/sales out there for many years. I used to keep track of it to study the model. It's why any time we have these Mike Mann threads, is he making money, does his model work. Yes, very easy to show the math on it. See example above from his tweet.

Let me give you the very short version, there are other posts where there are more details. He liked one of those posts where I went thru it, plus again, I did the math years ago but generally:

300,000 names x 8.50 renewal = $2,550,000 a year

$20,000 a day in sales = $7,300,000 a year

$4,750,000 left after renewals. For new buys and other expenses.

 

[JB Lions]

Yes, Mike Mann is around 350K names. He regularly doesn’t state around $60k in daily sales. Obviously outliers like Aptum.com for $95k, cryptoworld.com $195k, acehandymanservices.com for $29888 don’t hurt.

Take into account some of his portfolio includes names he purchased over a decade ago for 4-5 figures that sell over time, another good portion is reg fee also.

His bottom line I have no idea, but it would be a great study, as it is such a diverse portfolio built over time.

Yep, I guess 350k now, couple of years ago, there is a past post of 300k.

When I first started, my first few years, I literally kept a text document and kept track of them daily. He's very open with the sales, on Facebook/Twitter. I would take a month, average it out, that's where the $20,000 day amount came from. So once you get that and you know how many domains he has, then the math/model is easy to figure out. What was interesting to me at the time, was the average amount, low x,xxx

So:
low x,xxx sales = singles
those big sales he gets sometimes, like a $70,000 sale or something = home runs and I'm sure doubles and triples in the mix.

 

[Rob Monster]

So, here is a helpful tip for shooting the moon.

To shoot the moon, you will want to own domains that should have been owned by people with money, but which the people with money failed to plan to get, knowing that they have money, so they can get it when they want it. That is how rich people think: they just make more. They don't really quite get scarcity.

Where do you find rich people?

- Banking, Venture Capital and Private equity
- Brands for yachts and luxury goods
- Country Clubs and Golf clubs

So, for example, this week, we got an offer for a name that was a URL shortener for a venture capital fund. They offered $8K. We countered at $100K. The bidding is at $50K now, likely structured as payments.

What was the tipping point in the conversation with the VC? I challenged him that his emails were probably leaking to me. I set up an email forwarder. The next morning, I had an email intended for the VC. Oops.

This particular domain is a 23 year old .COM that long pre-dates his use of his brand. There is no UDRP scenario here that holds any water at all since the term is generic with many logical end-users.

Rich people want the best. The also hate it when you get emails that they were supposed to get, and that you are lawfully allowed to receive.

And now you know!

 

[bmugford]

And that is totally cool and great. I know you have great names. I am just saying that you might be leaving a bunch on the table. However, if it ain't broke, you don't have to fix it. I am sharing what is working for me and it is also working for some other folks who I am helping to close deals that they did not think they could close. Most folks who shoot the moon are not teaching others. I can guarantee you that there are a bunch of folks doing it but they don't want to teach you because they want to outbid you in the drop auctions.

It is true that any domain can sell for any price to the right buyer, for the right use.

If you want to ask $150K or $250K for marginal domains go ahead.
At that point it is just a numbers game, unless you have any specific intelligence on the buyer.

If you own enough domains and ask really high prices you might sell one here or there. At the same time this is more like a lottery mentality. You might never hit the big one, but pass on hundreds of great offers in the meantime.

I think the average domainer, who is struggling to even sell domains period, is likely to get unrealistic expectations.

Brad

 

[wwwweb]

Yep, I guess 350k now, couple of years ago, there is a past post of 300k.

When I first started, my first few years, I literally kept a text document and kept track of them daily. He's very open with the sales, on Facebook/Twitter. I would take a month, average it out, that's where the $20,000 day amount came from. So once you get that and you know how many domains he has, then the math/model is easy to figure out. What was interesting to me at the time, was the average amount, low x,xxx

So:
low x,xxx sales = singles
those big sales he gets sometimes, like a $70,000 sale or something = home runs and I'm sure doubles and triples in the mix.

I see a name like acehandymanservices.com, and acehandymanservice.com for a total of $35K, to ace hardware for those long tail domains this an amazing feat. How many of us would have jumped at $5k, $10k, $15k?

He is continually harping that domainers sell to cheap, and he is giving people gifts at 5 figures, so I get where Rob is coming from
Shoot for the moon. Unless you ask, you will never receive, but as mentioned above also asking extreme pricing, you will kill a lot of potential deals, so it really comes down to luck as if you can hit a few of these a year, your way ahead, otherwise you better have a safety net to cover your renewals.

 

[Rob Monster]

CPC as in cost per click? When did I ever say anything about that?

1.) Buy domains.
2.) Sell domains.
3.) Reinvest.
4.) Repeat.

I have been passively selling domains to end users for over a decade successfully, but thanks for all your helpful advice

Brad

And that is totally cool and great. I know you have great names. I am just saying that you might be leaving a bunch on the table. However, if it ain't broke, you don't have to fix it. I am sharing what is working for me and it is also working for some other folks who I am helping to close deals that they did not think they could close. Most folks who shoot the moon are not teaching others. I can guarantee you that there are a bunch of folks doing it but they don't want to teach you because they want to outbid you in the drop auctions.

 

[JB Lions]

20K/day at 300K names seems reasonable. 1%x300k=3k/year or 8-9 names a day at 2-2.2k average would give you the same number.

That's literally what I did at the time. I couldn't picture owning 300,000 names but I could picture 3,000 and did the math and thought, hmm, this has potential. At the time I was 100% affiliate and started to do this on the side, now domaining is over 95% of my income. It's just more fun. And last 10 years, it's been growing every single year.

I think somebody mentioned their biggest sale was one of their favorite names. I guess I'm kind of the same way. The names that I think are my best/favorite, I won't let go unless I get a big number. The other names I'm more flexible on. So it's kind of a mix. Will take the big sale, at the same time, you should have money coming in for renewals and more purchases. People just really need to find whatever works for them.

 

[frank-germany]

ICYMI, during October, Epik sold 3 domains above $250,000. We are getting reasonably good at qualifying leads and then backing prospects into leases and financings if they cannot afford to buy the domain.

Recently we began doing this for client domains, notably for clients who are too busy, are traveling, don't care to manage their inquiries, or who just don't feel confident handing responses.

We also hired our first domain broker, John Velinov, @Domain1031 and will shortly announce a Domain Broker Network in development following the acquisition of NameBrokers.com from Troy Rushton.

In the meantime, in the interest of helping folks sell more domains for bigger money, I want to share openly what I think works pretty well when responding to retail inquiries.

Here are my two go-to response templates for answering inbound inquiries:

Template #1

Hello <firstname>,

Thanks for the inquiry.

Names of this caliber routinely sell for over $100,000.

We also sometimes do domain leases with a purchase option.

If you have budget, I will do my best to get something done for you.

Happy to advise.

Regards,
Rob



Template #2

Hello <firstname>,

Thanks for the inquiry.

You are probably looking at well into 5 figures USD for this domain.

Alternatively, it is likely possible to do a lease with a purchase option or seller-finance.

Depending on your budget, happy to advise.

Regards,
Rob

Obviously, if you have some specific comment about the domain or about the person inquiring about the prospect, that can be helpful, but usually this is a great way to just see how high is up.

During October, we saw a 2 word domain sell for $253,750. By most standards, this domain was absolutely nothing special. The domain was however strategic to the buyer.

A lot of purchase prospects end up becoming leases and financings, depending on the budget situation of the buyer. The point is to never underestimate how high is up. It is much better to: Shoot the moon!

And now you know!

Thank youRob for sharing templates


Negotiation is always a delicate process
there never will be a one size fits all approach

every domain is unique
and
every prospect is unique

its more art than science

here is something I go today in my mail

https://blog.blackswanltd.com/the-edge/whats-the-deal-with-anchoring-in-negotiation

Rule No. 1: Extreme anchoring loses you deals that you otherwise would have made.

Rule No. 1 is one of the critical things that sets the xxx Group apart from our academic colleagues

—and quite a few of your average negotiators, too.

When you set an anchor that’s too high, it will drive away deals that you otherwise would have made.

Any good price can be made into a bad deal with difficult terms.

At the same time, with phenomenal terms, you can turn just about any price into a great deal.

You don’t want to drive away what could have been a great deal
because you made the rookie mistake of using a high anchor
and gave your counterpart cold feet.

 

[DomainBarracksRob]

@Rob Monster thanks for sharing this! I could have used this not too long ago I responded to an offer with “Only entertaining 5 figures and up”. I forgot to even leave a line about leasing options. Also the way you close it, is much more inviting. I like it.

I will try this next time.

Thanks

 

[Rob Monster]

It is true that any domain can sell for any price to the right buyer, for the right use.

If you want to ask $150K or $250K for marginal domains go ahead.
At that point it is just a numbers game, unless you have any specific intelligence on the buyer.

If you own enough domains and ask really high prices you might sell one here or there. At the same time this is more like a lottery mentality. You might never hit the big one, but pass on hundreds of great offers in the meantime.

I think the average domainer, who is struggling to even sell domains period, is likely to get unrealistic expectations.

Brad

Well, I do try to not buy marginal names.

As for missing out, I think my template does invite discussion, and if you don't get a reply then within 48 hours you can always chase it with a more timid inquiry, "Just checking in -- anything further to discuss here?". And then you find out what they think. I am sharing what I find works. Perhaps it works for others. It works for me and for the clients who let me sell their inventory.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I had thought from the title this was a thread devoted to astrophotography methods for great moon photos. . Would have been very timely what with the 50th anniversary of the moon landing.

I see instead it is something about domain names. Who would have thought?!

Bob

 

[Rob Monster]

The beginning of the first post feels like marketing for Epik as I said earlier in this thread.

You are the one who bolded "client" as well to make it stand out, then go on to advertise some upcoming services.

That sure seems promotional to me.

Brad

The Mods have the right to edit my posts. Moving to a new category without discussion is nonsense. The content is overwhelmingly generous in disclosing content that should help people to sell for higher prices.

 

[Michael]

Oops, now you've done it: you have exposed the entire economic model of the traditional lights-out marketplace using BIN pricing. Stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap.

Just go to SquadHelp's Brands for sale. Notice anything?

Show attachment 136226

How told all these people that they should price at around $2K? Rhetorical question because the obvious answer is that it comes from "industry best practice" and "comps" made from Swiss cheese. Fuggedaboutit.

Leases with options and Shoot-the-moon exits depart from the model of keeping domains priced under $2K. The $2K threshold is a self-fulfilling prophecy when enough people calibrate to it. My advice: don't.

You're kidding right? Try sorting by price high to low instead of relevance. What do you know, the good names are priced high and the bad names are priced low. Weird how that works. I wonder why all the garbage names aren't priced high too... the sellers must be idiots! Why would they want to actually make $2k when they could dream about making $50k?! They are getting suckered by greedy marketplaces and incomplete data, that's why! Wow... just wow.

The domains in your screenshot are garbage and the marketplace encourages prices where they'll actually have a chance in hell of selling. Because... you know, making sales is the entire point, both for the marketplace and for the seller. If everything was Make Offer those names would be inundated with $50 offers, not $250k offers. But because they price them, and reasonably, they have a pretty decent chance of making some sales.

Imagine the buying experience if every seller on that marketplace quoted back mid five-figures on names similar to the ones in your screenshot. No deals would get done, buyers would get pissed that their time was wasted, and they'd quickly have a reputation for ineptitude of the highest order. But maybe one sale would happen each year across the entire marketplace, so there's that. It wouldn't be a bunch of people having a party on the moon like you seem to think.

It's very simple. For your weak names, price them and make it $5k or lower. For your good names price them $5k or higher. If you actually have any great names, don't price them at all.

There's a reason it is the conventional wisdom, because that's what hundreds of thousands of people have experienced over decades. Why do you think BuyDomains and HugeDomains does that with their millions of names? They're too dumb to price test? They don't want to make more money?

That you think you discovered something new is hilarious. People on the fringes have been doing your moonshots for decades, you just don't hear about them because they never made a sale. Just look at the guy in the comments of my article with the 3D Metal Printing names. Ask him how those moonshots are working out for him. Shoot-the-moon pricing also departs from the model of actually making sales.

Leases may be the future, but they aren't the present. Most buyers don't want to build on something they don't own. Those that do usually bail on the lease after a few months. The fact is most businesses fail or never even get off the starting line. When you lease you're banking on them succeeding, and you'll only make that sweet, sweet recurring revenue until they throw in the towel.

Meanwhile you might have missed out on good sales while the name was being used. And future buyers might be reluctant to build on the grave of another failed business, since there would probably be bad press, negative reviews, etc. that they have to pay to get rid of. It's not as sexy as it sounds, and very rarely results in a big exercise at the end of the term.

 

[Michael]

Thanks Michael.

I appreciate your vast data set. I think it lacks:

- Private transactions (among the biggest!)
- Crypto transactions (also big)
- Cash transactions (yup, seen those too)
- Lease transactions (growing quickly)

You can call all of these edge cases but you don't really know because you mostly don't track them.

The good news about Swiss cheese is that in spite of the holes, it is satisfying. I would say the same about NameBio. It is a dull knife but it is appreciated.

As for conventional wisdom, I find it to be over-rated. Conventional wisdom says that all hyphen domains are trash. I have argued otherwise:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/hyphenated-com-domains-are-back-in-fashion.1154810

I routinely pick up cheap hyphen domains that are brandable are correlate to high CPC categories, set SSL landers on them and wait for the inquiries. They sell. Afternic sells them too so you can probably find them in your database, and perhaps with increasing sell-through at least in .COM.

So, you are entitled to your opinion. You are welcome to label me as contrarian, maverick, or whatever label you care to assign, benign or otherwise.

Regardless, I am a fan of NameBio. I am glad it exists. Even though Epik does not report data to it, and I don't use it very much as a pricing guide, I do use it for appraisal reports where comps are needed.

Lastly, here is where I will absolutely agree with you:

- Names that someone would happy to sell at any price can be priced at BIN.

- Names that someone is too busy or to incapable to to consultatively sell can be BIN.

- Name that are sold mainly for traffic can be sold with metrics for BIN.

As for the rest, if it is a case of beauty in the art of the beholder, then I prefer consultative selling because a capable salesperson should be able to articulate a value proposition to the prospective buyer.

I hope that clarifies.

And again, the offer still open to add a chapter on BIN price selling to the Domain Graduate 2.0 book being co-created here:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/teach-a-man-to-fish-co-creating-abundance.1162792

Your bias might be too much but if you have winning strategies for BIN pricing for people who want to make money in their sleep, even if they leave some on the table, that is useful!

I'm not someone who blindly follows conventional wisdom, I look at the data and form my own opinions. And it just so happens that the conventional wisdom checks out here, as it often does. Now that you've walked back your advice and clarified it more, yours does as well. There's no way you could support a claim with any actual data, that the average domainer with 100 or so weak names should be asking five figures ever, much less always. So I'm glad you didn't double down on that.

I actually like hyphen domains as well, but only if the non-hyphenated version would be maybe $25k+ when priced reasonably. I see them all the time here in Europe. There's no question having a hyphen hurts the value significantly, but that doesn't mean they all have no value. Not sure anyone ever said that though. If you offered everyone here on this forum Car-Insurance.com for $2k I bet you'd have nearly 100% take it, even if they had to beg, borrow and steal to get the money.

I'll take a pass on writing for the book, I appreciate the invite though. I read it and it's a pretty good start, although a bit heavy on the parking and typos when that hasn't been a big part of the game for a decade. And the tools section only has one tool that isn't really all that popular. I sincerely hope the finished product is sound advice that I can recommend. I get a lot of questions where the answer would require teaching someone practically the entire business, so it would be great to have a resource to send people to instead. Kudos for tackling it when nobody else would in the past 20+ years.

I must have missed something here, what's with all the hostility? I actually went to the site and most of the good names do have "Make an offer", there are some gems that I'd pay more. But to me, most are not that great.

I know a lot of people think it's just numbers game. People are happy to doing what works now. But the NameBio's stats does not match my experience. According to the the NameBio stats, I shouldn't have made any sale with only 100 names. But I did. I was able to sell 2 or 3 domain name every year for the last 15 years. Maybe I was lucky? Or maybe it was proof that I have high quality names? I find Rob's strategy and negotiation tactics appealing, so I'm giving it a try.

Perhaps people feel "moonshots" by idiots might damage the domain industry that is already having an image problem? I still get people ask me to give a domain name to them for free, "because you were not using it", so I'd say there are idiots all around.

I haven't seen your portfolio, your prices, or how you negotiate. But given your join date odds are in your favor that your portfolio is significantly better than the average domainer. That's kind of how statistics work though, for every one of you there are thousands that have never made an end user sale and several thousand more who have never even gotten an inquiry, so it averages out. Your success doesn't make my advice or data any less true for the average person, just not for you maybe.

You guys are right though, I apologize for being overly aggressive. I'll tone it down. I just strongly believe that Rob is giving out bad advice telling the average Joe not to price his names and to shoot for the moon, when the average person has never had an end user sale and rarely gets inquiries. It's a bit tone deaf. And debating using conspiracy theories and backhanded compliments instead of data kind of sets me off.

I want to see this industry grow in size and see more people succeeding, and I think Rob's advice jeopardized that. Enough so that I felt compelled to write an article about it even though I only write a couple a year. Especially since he is someone that many people here revere and will follow blindly, you have to wield that kind of power very responsibly and thoughtfully.