What's going on with Epik and Rob Monster?

[MapleDots]

I'm catching the tail end of this, seems to be some kind of controversy...

https://domaingang.com/domain-news/rob-monster-off-twitter-after-christchurch-massacre-controversy/

Must be something odd to evoke this type of a response from one of our members.

 

[Ghodeous]

One has to believe without question. Faith. And yet everything can be questioned.

 

[Ghodeous]

Common sense based on logic and compassion and certain Universal rights and values is what guides my opinion and judgment.

Free Speech is needed to empower people, but common sense also tells us that while it's okay to believe in harmless things such as fake moon landing or a flat earth or even believing that there are aliens in area 51, but crossing the line into promoting or engaging in hate and violence should not be accepted as a norm for people who want to advocate for free speech. While a person of faith who wants to be a force for good can get involved with any extremist group in order to try to make them repent from their ways, but it's important to not lose track of the fact that you are there to change their ways and not the other way around, your faith should be strong enough as to not to give in to any extremist ideologies. IMO

I think it is possible to be a strong believer in free speech but also believe in a safe, welcoming and accomodating online space for everyone. The trick is figuring out what goes way outta line. Speech for the sake of controversy is okay and dissent should be welcomed but incitement, violent extremism and anarchy should give us all cause to worry if free speech is intended to work that way.

 

[Cal2]

From the latest blog post from Seth Godin, on shunning:

"Shunning is a powerful tool, it is a sanction that society uses to maintain norms. But it’s an absolute tool, a final resort.

It’s possible to connect with people without endorsing their worst actions. In fact, the best way to undo negative actions may be to engage with people to persuade them that there’s a different way forward."

Does anyone have a 'better best way' to try and undo hate talk and any resulting behaviour from it? One that actually works?

His post: https://seths.blog/2019/08/the-shunning/

 

[oldtimer]

We need to get to the root cause of hate and violence that is being promoted and carried out by certain groups. As Rob has already mentioned it might make the situation worse if people are silenced and censored in expressing their grievances and point of views. We have to figure out why there are extremist groups in the first place and the fact that we want to put a stop to some of their tactics and activities that are considered antisocial or inhumane should not mean that their voice should be silenced completely. After all there are many other people in the society that also engage in antisocial and inhumane behavior, but we tolerate their actions and in some cases even employ them to do our bidding as our interest and agendas require. As I have said before I like to hear all sides to the story absent hate and violence. IMO

 

[Rob Monster]

Thanks @Ghodeous @Cal2 and @oldtimer for the weekend commentary.

These latest comments highlight the delicate balance of censorship, shunning and isolating those with competing narratives versus the alternative of defusing, engaging and moderating these competing narratives. The former worked for a while, but it also has prompted a counter-revolution on the digital playing field.

As for what is acceptable behavior online, we can likely agree that vvigilante justice without due process vis-a-vis established law is not something to empower. There is a thick line there that I think rational people would likely embrace. The acid test for me is what is the call to action.

For example, and as stated a few times in this thread, I have no issue with empowering the search for truth. This act is harmless because I believe the end of that journey is love, not just for your self and your family, but for all of humanity. The Bible says to love your enemy and to seek peace with everyone to the extent possible.

On the other hand, I have a big problem with those who would advocate for imposing their views through violence.The people who choose generic labels to direct indiscriminate hate towards entire groups without capacity for respecting the rights of each individual to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, are imposing their will.

However, the root issue we are running into in the Digital Age is actually not about HATE. That is the air cover. The real issue is that the truism that "the pen mightier than the sword" is proving more valid than ever. A viral message with incontrovertible evidence that changes minds is now as potent as any military ordinance known to man.

The people who think this debate is actually about containing isolated nutcases are not grasping what is truly at stake. The real debate is not about preventing more Columbines. The real debate is about restoring boundaries around acceptable attitudes and beliefs and about restricting the ability to ask questions and seek answers.

Some people might find this idea shocking. However, if you were paying attention, tthe Bible told you this day was coming about 2600 years ago:

I personally don't see the attempt to turn the world back to some kind of New Dark Ages as panning out. There are simply too many people who have now had a potent taste of the vast amount of information that have been held in private silos for a very long time. There really is no going back.

So, if folks want to work together to identify and root out actual psychopaths whose intentions are violent, count me in for that. However, if folks actually have a subversive agenda to burn the books, so to speak, you can count on some fairly vigorous resistance from a lot of very intelligent and fearless people.

 

[frank-germany]

https://twitter.com/DalaiLama/status/1165919580545400832?s=20


[URL='https://twitter.com/DalaiLama']Dalai Lama[/URL]
When you have peace of mind, it's easier to cope with problems.

Real change will come about not as a result of prayer,
but of using intelligence and taking action.

 

[TCK]

OK, Frank.

Any relation to Heinrich Mueller? I know this is before your time but curious on the family connection there since the Nazi stuff really seems to get your goat.

@Rob Monster

Why would you post personal details of a customer on a public forum? Even if he did decide to no longer be a customer this is extremely inappropriate and a serious breach of privacy.

And to evoke nonchalantly the nazis and try to make a bogus connection to that person shows how you personally feel about the nazis. And it shows that your personal attacks are getting more and more dangerous.

This should give anyone a pause for thought whether they want to do business with Rob and Epik.

 

[Rob Monster]

@Rob Monster

Why would you post personal details of a customer on a public forum? Even if he did decide to no longer be a customer this is extremely inappropriate and a serious breach of privacy.

And to evoke nonchalantly the nazis and try to make a bogus connection to that person shows how you personally feel about the nazis. And it shows that your personal attacks are getting more and more dangerous.

This should give anyone a pause for thought whether they want to do business with Rob and Epik.

FWIW, I think Frank is the only client to actually declare he was leaving Epik. He did not actually leave, so that should give some vague hint that rhetoric and virtue-signaling aside, most people are rational and will go to the places that give them great value for money, and which are governed by serious people.

Even though Frank often trolls in this thread and claims that he will stop posting in this thread, he does keep coming back. I love Frank and do hope he stays since this thread would not be the same without a determined German atheist telling people who believe in a higher power that they are all crazy! After all, he is on his own journey.

By the way, Ghodeus also claims to be a client. I have no evidence that this is the case. Regardless, I am listening to what he has to say and am making time for him to hear him out and to work with him in good faith. We were supposed to connect for a call this weekend but that did not quite work. I am guessing we'll connect later in the week.

For anyone new to this thread, the entire premise of this thread has been to convince people that Epik is some kind of evil chaos-agent that empowers all kinds of malfeasance. It is the same narrative being trotted out by leftist media. Sadly, it is even being trotted out by people who claim to be Christian.

On page 16 of this thread, I decided to engage the dialog here on NamePros. Since then I have held nothing back. Occasionally I have called out hypocrisy or nonsense. And even though I sense that TCK is pushing a subversive pro-censorship agenda, I love him too and don't object to the banter.

Looking ahead, I have very little doubt that we are living in historic times. It is a good time to be asking important questions about the meaning of life and to be seeking answers. Why? Because there are highly motivated and intelligent people who are working together to restrict those possibilities.

At the end of the day I accept that not everyone will agree with me. I am willing to hear them out, and will even debate openly with them, to the extent that they are engaging in good faith. And with that, I wish everyone a great start to the week!

 

[frank-germany]

quote from
"fake" by Robert Kyosaki ( rich dad - poor dad )

"
we are already in that war [3rd world war].
it is a war on many fronts and many levels.
today's wars are known as currency wars,
trade wars, terrorism, technology wars,
military wars,

and social media wars.
"
quote end

while you struggle about "free speech"
which means everyone may postulate whatever hate he wants to spread

while you do so
the real problem coming nearer:

humanity has made it's last invention:
AI


what is AI?
software coding software
updating itself
infinitely

and the problem is:
it's not science fiction

it exists

it's always

"we against them"

the core of all evil

but soon it will be humanity
against AI which can't be won


unless we become human

 

[oldtimer]

@frank-germany , thanks for participating in my thread about AI , as I have already said, i value all opinions and ideas that are presented in a civilized and constructive manner without malice and hate.

For those who want to discuss AI , I invite them to comment at:

https://www.namepros.com/threads/fu...ed-and-maintained-by-ai.1151026/#post-7367325

 

[rh2000]

Just so you know, i am also one of those people who worry, that someday, while I walk the mall (which I havent done for years) or i am out there minding my business, someone is going to come and gun me down because I look different.

A lot of people are thinking the same thing.

 

[oldtimer]

@Rob Monster , many people here have been defending you when you were the subject of personal attacks for the fact that they realized that you were trying to protect and preserve free speech. As long as people are playing by the rules it's not right for them to be attacked personally in any way just because one doesn't like their personality or doesn't agree with what they are saying ,in my opinion the same principal should be extended to Frank (last name left out) too. After so much discussion in this thread I like to think that you and Frank and many others here have been able to connect at a higher level that goes beyond politics, religion, and race. I noticed that both you and Frank had Thanked me a few comments earlier when I said "we need free speech to empower people" and as far as I am concerned if you and Frank can agree on something like that then a lot of progress has already been made.

People should be able to connect with each other on a common cause or idea and still be able to keep their own beliefs and values, that's when Free Speech has achieved it's purpose. IMO

 

[frank-germany]

@Rob Monster , many people here have been defending you when you were the subject of personal attacks for the fact that they realized that you were trying to protect and preserve free speech. As long as people are playing by the rules it's not right for them to be attacked personally in any way just because one doesn't like their personality or doesn't agree with what they are saying ,in my opinion the same principal should be extended to Frank (last name left out). After so much discussion in this thread I like to think that you and Frank and many others here have been able to connect at a higher level that goes beyond politics, religion, and race. I noticed that both you and Frank had Thanked me a few comments earlier when I said "we need free speech to empower people" and as far as I am concerned if you and Frank can agree on something like that then a lot of progress has already been made.

you may say whatever you like
as long as you don't encourage people
to act violently against others

I may like it or not
that's not the point

but to create hate
that's a different ball game

at least that's my understanding of free speech


on the other hand
you may hear things from me
you can't agree on

that's the game

 

[Rob Monster]

A lot of people are thinking the same thing.

In short, that's what the adversary wants -- to give you fear and anxiety. Such people are more easily divided, ruled and subjugated as they surrender God-given rights.

This does not mean to say that I suggest that anyone should condone anarchy or lawlessness. Romans 13 is clear that we are to be law-abiding.

However, this I know for sure:

The God of creation who knows every hair on your head, and presumably ever cell and atom in your being, surely does not miss much.

In other words, for a person resting in the finished work of Jesus Christ, walking with humility in the spirit, there really should not be a basis for fear.

For calibration, I have numerous death threats over the past year and perhaps even one close encounter. I sleep like a baby.

Besides if something were to happen to me, the entire code base of all our platforms would be in the public domain and the adversary knows this to be the case.

@Rob Monster , many people here have been defending you when you were the subject of personal attacks for the fact that they realized that you were trying to protect and preserve free speech. As long as people are playing by the rules it's not right for them to be attacked personally in any way just because one doesn't like their personality or doesn't agree with what they are saying ,in my opinion the same principal should be extended to Frank (last name left out). After so much discussion in this thread I like to think that you and Frank and many others here have been able to connect at a higher level that goes beyond politics, religion, and race. I noticed that both you and Frank had Thanked me a few comments earlier when I said "we need free speech to empower people" and as far as I am concerned if you and Frank can agree on something like that then a lot of progress has already been made.

I have no bone to pick with Frank. I think he should consider cutting me some slack. That said, I don't begrudge him for disagreeing. He presents his case with vigor but he is actually less judgmental and more tolerant than others, e.g. TCK who openly advocates for shunning and condemnation, no different than an ANTIFA leftist.

As a new arrival to this thread, we have "Ghodeus" who openly disagrees with me on some stuff, perhaps with faux indignation. However, to his credit, he stops short of ad hominem and actually wants to work on solutions for the benefit of the industry's governance in a way that ICANN and WIPO probably fall short.

By the way, Candace Owens cracked me up this morning:

 

[TCK]

TCK who openly advocates for shunning and condemnation, no different than an ANTIFA leftist.

Show me an example for where I have done this. Or I expect an apology.

 

[Rob Monster]

Anyone here going to Burning Man this year? It kicked off yesterday in Blackrock City. This is the 33rd year of Burning Man.

Worth noting, they will burn the man at 9 pm PT on this coming Saturday night, after the newly sighted moon sets in the West .

TorahCalendar says that this coincides with Yom Teruah though Hebcal and Chabad say it is a month later:

ICYMI, this is what the Burning Man temple is supposed to look like:

Not sure if it is up yet -- the above picture is the design. Knowing how the occultists roll, I am sure there is some cleverness with how sunrise or sunset interact with it.

Anyway, back to domaining, but thought worth sharing for those who aren't up on their Pagan sun rituals.

 

[Rob Monster]

Show me an example for where I have done this. Or I expect an apology.

It's called Shunning Bro. You did it earlier today:

Schizo much?

 

[rh2000]

For calibration, I have numerous death threats over the past year and perhaps even one close encounter. I sleep like a baby.



Show attachment 127509

Sorry to hear that. I wonder what happen to make people that mad at you.

 

[Rob Monster]

Sorry to hear that. I wonder what happen to make people that mad at you.

It was related to allowing sites like Gab to be online and standing on principle with regards to lawful free speech. Some folks don't like that idea. Law enforcement and FBI were alerted. It comes with the territory. Stand for something or fall for anything.

 

[TCK]

It's called Shunning Bro. You did it earlier today:

Show attachment 127512

Schizo much?

What part of that is shunning?

Rob, your name calling and labeling people because of one comment that irks you makes you look like a very small person.