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Who is to Blame for the Troubled US Economy?

  • This poll is still running and the standings may change.
  • Both Parties

    305 
    votes
    45.6%
  • Neither Party

    58 
    votes
    8.7%
  • Democrats

    150 
    votes
    22.4%
  • Republicans

    156 
    votes
    23.3%
  • This poll is still running and the standings may change.

Here you can spout your USA political views.

Rules:
1. Keep it clean
2. No fighting
3. Respect the views of others.
4. US Political views, No Religious views
5. Have fun :)

:wave:
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
GoDaddyGoDaddy
Fantastic logic. First, based on your own words, you do believe that Muslims can be easily recruited to become terrorists. That in itself is worrisome. At the same time, how many Christians, Buddhists, Hindus and Jews do you think would be influenced to become terrorists? None?? Right!

So for a Muslim to become a terrorist, all the motivation they need is for someone to tell them that some country is Anti-Muslim.. right? And then they will sign up in hordes for their holy jihad. How wonderful this peace loving religion is. How nice it would be, if you yourself, could shelter some of these peaceful loving refugees in your own home. Have you done so yet?

Now, how about a situation where America invites a million of these so called "refugees" amongst whom there will definitely be many terrorists infiltrating in the guise of persecuted youth and wannabe students. Just like how Europe has had fun opening it's borders to these people?

So, based on your ideas and well wishes for America, we should open our borders and wave friendship flags and invite a million refugees. Now, once these peace loving innocent youth and persecuted people step foot in here, what guarantee do we have that they won't play the same mind games and recruit people right here? Hell,.. in a year or two, we might have these ISIS recruiting offices right here in all our 50 states!

I'd rather have these refugees stay right where they are and think whatever they want to think about America. We don't need them to tag us as "Friendly" or "Non-Friendly". Nobody cares about what they think. America is a land of immigrants, but not for those who wish to come here and harm us. Let them recruit abroad and we can target their training camps and eliminate them right where they are. It would be more difficult to target them if they lived amongst us.

After 9/11, thanks to these jihadis, we Americans started losing our right to privacy, started being strip searched at airports and a whole lot of our basic freedoms were just lost. Imagine the day when we invite millions of them here...whatever little freedom we have will be lost too in the name of national security.

I totally agree with what President Trump did. Better play safe than regret.

It's quite frankly hard to know where to start addressing such a barrage of nonsense. For starters, my assessment of how easily people can be recruited to commit acts of barbarism is not exclusive to Muslims as you claim, it's pretty much universal. Sadly, there is a segment of humanity -- regardless of nationality, religion, or race -- that is capable of either directly committing atrocities or turning a blind eye to them the minute anyone provides them with anything that even remotely resembles justification. Nazi Germany is a perfect illustration of that point despite the near total absence of Muslims among that population.

Moving on, your apparent belief that only Muslims can be be influenced to become terrorists is humorous for a couple of reasons. First, because it suggests a staggering degree of ignorance. Timothy McVeigh, Dylan Roof, the Unabomber, Michael Page, Eric Rudolph, are a few examples of lone wolf type non-Muslim domestic terrorists. On top of that, we have groups like the KKK, and a whole host of white nationalist militia groups that have either committed or plotted to commit a steady stream of domestic attacks over the years (ever read a newspaper?) .

But, there's another reason that makes your sense of moral superiority to Muslims even more laughable. You seem to buy into the simpleminded idea that since many terrorists are Muslims, that that's proof that Muslims are by nature more prone to evil. You apparently haven't yet figured out that the reason certain groups or nations resort to terrorism is because that's the only means they have of waging war. So, for example, if we as a nation don't commit acts of terrorism ( in the strictest sense of the word ) against a country like Iraq, it's not because we're better people, it's because it would be stupid to attack using suicide bombers when we can blow Iraqis up from the safety of actual bombers. Meanwhile, even though we killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians ( ie the equivalent of a few hundred 9/11's ) and effectively destroyed the lives of about 25 million Iraqis, people like you still manage to feel that Muslims have cornered the market on evil. I promise you that if we handed ISIS some nukes, an air-force, a navy, etc. , that they'd instantly stop being terrorists and start killing us in a manner you deem more civilized.

As far as how easy it is to convince people to commit acts of terror, as I recall, 70% of Americans backed the invasion of Iraq and all that was needed to motivate them to back that atrocity was "for someone to tell them that some country" hates Americans. There are about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. Imagine how much trouble we'd be in if the day ever came when 70% of Muslims became as gullible/stupid as Americans.

As I said earlier, among every group on the planet there are people who will happily descend into barbarism the minute they're convinced another group is a threat to them. In Syria, those people are called ISIS while in America they're called Trump supporters. The only difference between those two groups is the belief that the other group "started it". Let's recall that Trump favors torture, the killing of innocent civilians, and more broadly responding in kind to ISIS's atrocities. In other words, the man you support is not much different than the people we call our enemies. So how hard was it to convince you to embrace Trump's brand of terrorism? Clearly not that hard at all.
 
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I find it fascinating that Trump has seized on the executive order as his key tool to create laws without any political consensus from across the aisle. This is Obama's legacy. The same people who were fine with Obama going around constitutional safeguards to roll over the "obstructionists" now find the shoe on the other foot.

They made their bed, now it's time to lie in it.

Yeah, because until Obama came along, no president had ever issued executive orders.

President -- # of executive orders
Reagan - 308
Bush ( one term ) - 166
Clinton - 308
GWB - 291
Obama - 276

If we go further back in history, we have Roosevelt at 3,522, Eisenhower at 484, Truman at 907, and Hoover at 968.

And btw, is it hypocritical to have been opposed to Obama's executive orders while supporting Trump's, or is it only hypocritical in the other direction?
 
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The crazy thing with the ban is that people with green cards and visas, who have already been subject to stringent background checks, are now afraid to leave they country for fear they won't get back in.
 
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Executive order is a presidential prerogative, it's not a blank check to trample on freedoms and human rights national and international law.
The man supposed to uphold the Constitution betrayed America. His actions go against fundamental democratic principles (including the Constitution), which is abuse of power.

As far as how easy it is to convince people to commit acts of terror, as I recall, 70% of Americans backed the invasion of Iraq and all that was needed to motivate them to back that atrocity was "for someone to tell them that some country" hates Americans.
...
Nazi Germany is a perfect illustration of that point despite the near total absence of Muslims among that population.
Exactly, Americans are not even feeling any guilt for it and right now, Trump supporters approve what's happening, try to justify it (or stay silent). Not different than what happened in the 30s. And they still think they are the good guys, they are not being intolerant or possibly terrorists themselves. They don't even realize they have started to look like their enemies. This is what happens when you stoop to the level of your enemies.

America doesn't command any respect nowadays. It doesn't stand for freedom any more (since a long time). It's becoming a tinpot banana republic and is probably going to follow Venezuela's path. Americans brought it upon themselves, not because of Isis or some external enemies. Nobody forced you to stop acting like a civilized nation.
 
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So anyone want to take a guess how many Americans have been killed by foreign nationals on the proposed ban list?

Zero. None.

Several THOUSAND (including a few of my friends) were killed by some guys from Saudi Arabia, but that's a business partner so not on the list.
That's right enlytend, add to that the fact that 15 of the 19 "hijackers" were Saudis. Our Govt wont apply sanctions on Saudi Arabia because they want to keep the flow of "cheap" oil flowing to the US.

In the end, to address the root of our "terrorism" problems American politicians need to stop bowing to Saudi and Israeli influence. They continually sell out our safety and the lives of our enlisted to wars that those two countries are happy to watch us fight for them. Up next, Iran.
 
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Not different than what happened in the 30s. And they still think they are the good guys, they are not being intolerant or possibly terrorists themselves. They don't even realize they have started to look like their enemies. This is what happens when you stoop to the level of your enemies.

"All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts. A British Tory will defend self-determination in Europe and oppose it in India with no feeling of inconsistency. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage โ€” torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians โ€” which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by โ€˜ourโ€™ side. "

-- George Orwell
 
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I wonder why they did not include Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and its neighboring country on the list.
 
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As far as how easy it is to convince people to commit acts of terror, as I recall, 70% of Americans backed the invasion of Iraq and all that was needed to motivate them to back that atrocity was "for someone to tell them that some country" hates Americans. There are about 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. Imagine how much trouble we'd be in if the day ever came when 70% of Muslims became as gullible/stupid as Americans.

You do have a point there. We became gullible because many people till today blindly believe every damn word spoken by the MSM. The MSM had become so powerful that even politicians were afraid of being on the wrong side of the media or it's owners. One can clearly see today how frustrated the media is with Trump for completely ignoring them and using social media instead. They, for the first time, feel powerless and can see that the game of deceit they had been playing for decades and influencing the American people is no longer working. I rarely watch the local news, but when I do, it's all about theft, larceny, shootings, war or creating fear. There is nothing positive they can ever talk about. The media has always believed that fear keeps audiences tuned and helps build viewer ratings.
 
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You do have a point there. We became gullible because many people till today blindly believe every damn word spoken by the MSM. The MSM had become so powerful that even politicians were afraid of being on the wrong side of the media or it's owners...

MSM is corporate media. Multinational corporations also control our politicians. There motives are pure profit motives, not truth or justice or human rights. Both the repubs and the dems (yes they both deserve lower case) have sold out to them and represent them much more than they do you. This is how Trump got into office, because even though most people can't identify the real problem (legalized bribery of our Govt), they are simply sick of politicians.

A big reality check is needed for Trump supporters however, because he is not in this for you either. He ran as a populist to get in and now he doesn't need you anymore. Trump is in it just to benefit himself and his brand (as he has ALWAYS done) and his admin is determined to once again simply execute the bidding of multinational corporations for profit.
 
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That's right enlytend, add to that the fact that 15 of the 19 "hijackers" were Saudis. Our Govt wont apply sanctions on Saudi Arabia because they want to keep the flow of "cheap" oil flowing to the US.

And DT has property there. No tRump hotels in any country on the ban list.

Temporary hold on the ban - will help those currently en route or detained.

This whole week has Bannens fingerprints all over it.
 
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And btw, is it hypocritical to have been opposed to Obama's executive orders while supporting Trump's, or is it only hypocritical in the other direction?

Your figures don't describe the way the orders were used, which were mainly for simple administrative things that needed to get done quickly. The executive orders were never intended to be used to get around political opposition to radical changes in governance. That was Obama's contribution. Whatever one thinks of Obamacare, it is a massive change that would have required debate in any real democracy.

Simply, Obama perverted the intent of the executive action to override the usual democratic process. That created 2 very foreseeable results:

1- The EO process delegitimises the new laws, and invites the opposition to also use loopholes in the democratic process to neuter or void the new laws. It's building sandcastles rather than real lasting change, which requires an effort at political consensus.

2- The EO process used in this way creates a precedent for subsequent presidents who may hold opposing views to the current one. I think you understand this one.

Obama took a shortcut so he could make autocratic decisions, and now everyone will pay the price.

For the record, I don't like that Trump is using executive orders to push so much through. For the same reasons. Most of these won't hold when challenged, and the next President (probably a Marxist or along those lines) can simply do the same. The US will become like a banana republic, with political extremes swinging wildly as administrations change. That never ends well.

And, by the way, why would a Trump supporter's hypocrisy have any effect on yours? If it's hypocritical, it's hypocritical.
 
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It seems the ban was not reviewed by the state department, justice department, DHS, DOD, or NSC lawyers. Immigration and customs were notified when it was a done deal.
https://lawfareblog.com/malevolence...horrifying-executive-order-refugees-and-visas

While this was happening, NSC was restructured so that the principles committee now includes Bannen and no longer includes the DNI and chair of the joint chiefs of staff. I repeat - the director of national intelligence and highest ranking military officer in the country are being replaced with Bannen.

So now Moscow Mike and a white supremacist blogger control the National Security Council.
https://twitter.com/zekejmiller/status/825482075759316992

No words - I'm just going to leave that there.
 
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Donald, your wife is an immigrant.
Immigrants made America great.
 
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Your figures don't describe the way the orders were used, which were mainly for simple administrative things that needed to get done quickly. The executive orders were never intended to be used to get around political opposition to radical changes in governance. That was Obama's contribution. Whatever one thinks of Obamacare, it is a massive change that would have required debate in any real democracy.

Simply, Obama perverted the intent of the executive action to override the usual democratic process. That created 2 very foreseeable results:

1- The EO process delegitimises the new laws, and invites the opposition to also use loopholes in the democratic process to neuter or void the new laws. It's building sandcastles rather than real lasting change, which requires an effort at political consensus.

2- The EO process used in this way creates a precedent for subsequent presidents who may hold opposing views to the current one. I think you understand this one.

Obama took a shortcut so he could make autocratic decisions, and now everyone will pay the price.

For the record, I don't like that Trump is using executive orders to push so much through. For the same reasons. Most of these won't hold when challenged, and the next President (probably a Marxist or along those lines) can simply do the same. The US will become like a banana republic, with political extremes swinging wildly as administrations change. That never ends well.

And, by the way, why would a Trump supporter's hypocrisy have any effect on yours? If it's hypocritical, it's hypocritical.

I'm sorry, but this is utter nonsense in every respect. Here are some examples of executive orders issued before Obama. Let me know if they sound like "simple administrative things".

- The emancipation proclamation was an executive order
- Roosevelt set up the Japanese internment camps by executive order
- Carter created FEMA by executive order
- GWB issued an executive order authorizing the NSA to eavesdrop on American citizens without a warrant

There are plenty of other examples.

Moreover, there is no way to do an end run around the safeguards provided by the constitution which sets limits on what can be done by executive order. Reasonable people can disagree about what those limitations are, and when disagreements arise, we have a court system in place that allows executive orders to be challenged. If Obama had somehow managed to sidestep those safeguards as you claim, then some of his EO's wouldn't have been overturned in court, would they?

Lastly, do you seriously believe that an authoritarian like Trump would be doing things differently if not for Obama? How about we hold Trump accountable for his actions instead of trying to shift the blame for what he does onto Obama?
 
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You do have a point there. We became gullible because many people till today blindly believe every damn word spoken by the MSM. The MSM had become so powerful that even politicians were afraid of being on the wrong side of the media or it's owners. One can clearly see today how frustrated the media is with Trump for completely ignoring them and using social media instead. They, for the first time, feel powerless and can see that the game of deceit they had been playing for decades and influencing the American people is no longer working. I rarely watch the local news, but when I do, it's all about theft, larceny, shootings, war or creating fear. There is nothing positive they can ever talk about. The media has always believed that fear keeps audiences tuned and helps build viewer ratings.

While I agree that the MSM should not be trusted blindly, the notion that Trump frustrates the media by speaking the truth directly to Americans is quite frankly ridiculous. If he frustrates the media, it's more generally because he lies all the time. For example, his assertion that there was voter fraud to the tune of 3 to 5 million is something he just made up. His story about sending investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama's birth certificate was another piece of fiction. He never met Putin on the set of 60 minutes, he never saw thousands of people celebrating on the streets of NJ on 9/11, and he doesn't have secret information proving that Russia wasn't behind the DNC hacking. The list goes on and on. Trump has learned that all he needs to do is assert things emphatically, and no matter how preposterous or unsubstantiated his claims are, some people will believe everything he says.

It's true that people who believe everything they get from the mainstream media are sheep, but people who blindly reject everything they get from the MSM and mindlessly regurgitate everything they get from Trump & the right wing media are also sheep. The only difference is that they follow a different shepherd.
 
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Moreover, there is no way to do an end run around the safeguards provided by the constitution which sets limits on what can be done by executive order. Reasonable people can disagree about what those limitations are, and when disagreements arise, we have a court system in place that allows executive orders to be challenged. If Obama had somehow managed to sidestep those safeguards as you claim, then some of his EO's wouldn't have been overturned in court, would they?
Some should have, like the warrantless surveillance of all Americans, but the FISA courts are kangaroo courts. The other problem is secrecy: the people and the courts cannot hold the government accountable for actions that are concealed from the public.
The government thinks that if you have something to hide, you are doing something bad, therefore you should have no right to privacy. But then why is the government holding people indefinitely without trial on a remote island, and rendering 'parallel' 'justice' far from prying eyes ? It sure has something dirty to hide.

In normal countries, even in struggling democracies, presidents have been impeached and jailed for much less than what GWB and Obama have done (things have changed since Nixon). When the courts and the institutions are powerless in front of the executive branch, we have broken checks and balances, and a failed democracy.
 
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the director of national intelligence and highest ranking military officer in the country are being replaced with Bannen.

#StopPresidentBannon
https://twitter.com/hashtag/StopPresidentBannon?src=tren

Things just continue to get amped up, not going to be good.

This is dropping already -
Poll: 36% approve of Trump's job performance
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/27/politics/trump-approval-rating-quinnipiac-poll/



C3V2azXWIAAznoe.jpg
 
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Off to a great start Destroying the United States.
C3UjNjDW8AA6GYC.jpg
 
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Terry Branstad Governor of Iowa

Believes that animals are nothing more than human /final waste product/ and believes in hiding the truth (and gagging those who do not agree).

"signed a bill that will make it much more difficult for animal welfare advocates to sneak cameras into Iowa's factory livestock farms."

http://www.motherjones.com/tom-phil...vernor-keep-iowas-factory-farms-shielded-view

โ€œAs long as itโ€™s standing up and laying eggs, thatโ€™s all that matters,โ€

"Rather than confront these abuses, Big Agโ€”which produces most of our meat, eggs and dairyโ€”has sought to conceal them by pushing a spate of Orwellian โ€œag-gagโ€ bills in state legislatures across the country. Ag-gag, a term coined by food journalism veteran Mark Bittman, is a type of anti-whistleblower legislation designed to criminalize the documentation of cruelty to animals, rather than the cruelty itself. Many ag-gag bills impose criminal penalties for photographing or videotaping inside factory farms and slaughterhouses."

"Last year, the investigator working undercover at New Englandโ€™s largest egg farm found rows and rows of chickens packed tightly into cages so small they were unable to even extend their wings. He found dead onesโ€”mummified and flattened like pancakesโ€”sharing cage space with live hens who continued to lay eggs for human consumption. Some of those eggs were covered in blood."

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2...actory-farming-finally-stop-its-culture-abuse

elephant-ent-17.jpg


"Ringling Brothers is phasing out their elephants. I,for one, will never go again. They probably used the animal rights stuff to reduce costs"

Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 5, 2015
 
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It's true that people who believe everything they get from the mainstream media are sheep, but people who blindly reject everything they get from the MSM and mindlessly regurgitate everything they get from Trump & the right wing media are also sheep. The only difference is that they follow a different shepherd.

One thing I have noticed lately is that some which had gotten lazy are definitely upping their game. Probably for survival because there's much more awareness and fact checking by their readers, but still a good thing.
 
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