The religious discussion thread

[Archangel]

This thread was created to bring a local new story to light, which can be viewed below:

JACKSON, Ohio (AP) — An Ohio school district decided Tuesday night to keep a portrait of Jesus hanging in the school where it's been 65 years, denying a federal lawsuit's claim the portrait's display unconstitutionally promotes religion in a public school.

The Jackson City Schools board offered a constitutional justification of its own in voting 4-0 to keep the portrait up in its middle school, saying it must protect students' free speech rights. The vote drew cheers and applause from the dozens of people gathered in the elementary school gymnasium.

Read all of it here: http://news.yahoo.com/ohio-school-b...xzBHB0A3N0b3J5cGFnZQR0ZXN0A1Rlc3RfQUZD;_ylv=3

I posted his here @ NP to see what ppl had to say on the issue. As it turns out, this sparked many debates. I've considered closing this thread but after multiple suggestions, I decided to keep it open. Feel free to join in the topics but per forum rules, please refrain from obscene, threatening, rude, or insulting posts.

 

[GILSAN]

Madeira too.

Just to prove my point:

(Reuters) - Gambia's President Yahya Jammeh on Tuesday called homosexuals "vermin" and said his government would tackle them in the same way it fights malaria-causing mosquitoes.

The latest comments from Jammeh, who last year branded gays a threat to humanity, coincide with a renewed crackdown on same-sex relationships in Africa, where homosexuality is taboo and illegal in 37 countries.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/18/us-gambia-homosexuality-idUSBREA1H1S820140218

37 countries in Africa.... like I said , it's a cultural thing

 

[verbster]

Just to prove my point:

(Reuters) - Gambia's President Yahya Jammeh on Tuesday called homosexuals "vermin" and said his government would tackle them in the same way it fights malaria-causing mosquitoes.

Jammeh also said he would turn Gambia into an oil-producing country and usher in a new future, despite the fact they appear to have no oil.

After 20 years of iron-fisted rule, his war on malaria-causing mosquitoes has gone nowhere. WHO rates the entire country in the red zone for malaria.

The latest comments from Jammeh, who last year branded gays a threat to humanity, coincide with a renewed crackdown on same-sex relationships in Africa, where homosexuality is taboo and illegal in 37 countries.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/18/us-gambia-homosexuality-idUSBREA1H1S820140218

37 countries in Africa.... like I said , it's a cultural thing

It's true many African countries have laws against sodomy and/or homosexuals, but I'm not sure what your point is. By dismissing the laws and/or the sentiment as a cultural thing, it seems you are saying religion has nothing to do with the laws or beliefs against homosexuality. Are you saying that religion and culture are two separate things, independent of each other?

 

[Kate]

Apparently Gilsan is unaware that even in the EU (Greece for instance) you can do jail time for blasphemy. But as he said, it's a cultural thing, nothing to do with religion. So it's OK. And I am very pleased to see that he is starting to show some concern for the plight of homosexuals worldwide.

 

[GILSAN]

It's true many African countries have laws against sodomy and/or homosexuals, but I'm not sure what your point is. By dismissing the laws and/or the sentiment as a cultural thing, it seems you are saying religion has nothing to do with the laws or beliefs against homosexuality. Are you saying that religion and culture are two separate things, independent of each other?

What I'm saying to you and sdsinc is that the anti gay sentiment in Africa is mostly to do with their cultural beliefs. Most African countries already had laws that outlaws homosexuality.

Some US media saying that Evangelicals are to blame for Uganda coming out with their "new" law is a load of bull. It's cultural. 99.99% of Africans don't accept gay marriage or gay rights, gay behavior etc.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...ing-tide-of-anti-gay-sentiment-in-africa.html

Religious groups didn't have to convince Africans not to like gays. If you believe that then you're living in LaLa Land.

Obama and Hillary tried to pressure African governments about Gay rights, but they didn't appreciate that at all.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Afri...acts-to-Obama-s-pro-gay-rights-foreign-policy

 

[GILSAN]

Apparently Gilsan is unaware that even in the EU (Greece for instance) you can do jail time for blasphemy. But as he said, it's a cultural thing, nothing to do with religion. So it's OK. And I am very pleased to see that he is starting to show some concern for the plight of homosexuals worldwide.

You jump from Uganda's anti-gay laws to Greece's blasphemy laws

What's wrong... you run out of arguments?

Why not give us a complete list of all countries that have blasphemy laws. I'll bet many of them have death sentences... right? And I'll bet you know which ones they are but don't want to tell us... right?

 

[Kate]

Obama and Hillary tried to pressure African governments about Gay rights, but they didn't appreciate that at all.

African leaders (or Putin) have found a convenient scapegoat. Denouncing the so-called Western interference is just a way to to prop up their corrupt and failed régimes. In other times, other countries, it would be the Jews or the Gypsies. Or the Hutus, or the Tutsis.

It's not even interference or colonialism, by the way. It's more about reminding them of their obligations as signatories to various international treaties that prohibit human rights violations. But African despots are very much used to brushing off suggestions for democratic reforms as foreign 'interference'. To a despot ANY reference to ANY human rights is interference.

I mean, it's like those countries are in the shit because of the West... they are in the shit because of the poor governance, corruption, lack of democracy, security and efficient government. Uganda is an interesting case actually, it has high AIDS prevalence rates (like in other parts of Africa). But the official line is to preach sermons against condoms because they think condoms could promote 'debauchery' (supposedly another another imported illness from the White people). The plight is self-inflicted.

Not so long ago, homosexuality was still taboo (and a crime) in the West. You sound like Africa doesn't tolerate it, while the rest of the world is more relaxed- hell no. Intolerance prevails in the whole world, at varying degrees. Europe has cultural prejudices too. But it has a democratic system and society has the capacity to evolve. There is a laissez-faire attitude, people tend to mind their own business and respect the freedoms of others. But when times are tough, the hunt for scapegoat begins.

 

[GILSAN]

African leaders (or Putin) have found a convenient scapegoat. Denouncing the so-called Western interference is just a way to to prop up their corrupt and failed régimes. In other times, other countries, it would be the Jews or the Gypsies. Or the Hutus, or the Tutsis.

It's not even interference or colonialism, by the way. It's more about reminding them of their obligations as signatories to various international treaties that prohibit human rights violations. But African despots are very much used to brushing off suggestions for democratic reforms as foreign 'interference'. To a despot ANY reference to ANY human rights is interference.

I mean, it's like those countries are in the shit because of the West... they are in the shit because of the poor governance, corruption, lack of democracy, security and efficient government. Uganda is an interesting case actually, it has high AIDS prevalence rates (like in other parts of Africa). But the official line is to preach sermons against condoms because they think condoms could promote 'debauchery' (supposedly another another imported illness from the White people). The plight is self-inflicted.

I have to agree with you 200%. Could never have said it better myself. It's so good in fact, that you deserve a LIKE

Though the major church in Uganda is the Catholic church, they are also the ones that most help the HIV patients.

A few years ago the previous Pope, Benedict XVI
drooped the Catholic ban on condoms in an historic shift:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...atholic-ban-on-condoms-in-historic-shift.html

Traditionally, in Africa the Catholic Church never really implemented the churches policy on condoms because they knew they could never get it through African males heads to use them.

I know about this because I lived for 24 years in Africa and I have a cousin who is a Catholic Priest (actually he was ordained a Bishop 2 years ago) in South Africa.

All his priesthood life has been in the rural parts of the country among African people and he has told me on various conversations we had about AIDS (which is even worst in S. Africa than in Uganda) and African males reluctance to use condoms. What the Catholic Church preaches mostly, at least in Africa is abstinence, but that's not an easy one to sell either

Not so long ago, homosexuality was still taboo (and a crime) in the West. You sound like Africa doesn't tolerate it, while the rest of the world is more relaxed- hell no. Intolerance prevails in the whole world, at varying degrees. Europe has cultural prejudices too. But it has a democratic system and society has the capacity to evolve. There is a laissez-faire attitude, people tend to mind their own business and respect the freedoms of others. But when times are tough, the hunt for scapegoat begins.

If I sounded like it, then let me be clear about it. We were talking about Africa, but I'm well aware that it's a taboo subject all around the world and in some parts it's just as bad or even worse than in Africa

 

[RogueWriter]

Been thinking about a specific verse this morning:

"Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."
Proverbs 27:17

 

[verbster]

Is a nice thought, but the Internet is changing the nature and notion of friends.

 

[verbster]

Gilsan,

Were you actually intending to insult the complete Islamic religion (in the formerly titled Johname and friends section),with your "Allahu Akbar" comment? Or was that your idea of a joke?

 

[GILSAN]

Gilsan,

Were you actually intending to insult the complete Islamic religion (in the formerly titled Johname and friends section),with your "Allahu Akbar" comment? Or was that your idea of a joke?

Take it whatever way you like. Makes no difference to me

 

[DU]

Gilsan,

Were you actually intending to insult the complete Islamic religion (in the formerly titled Johname and friends section),with your "Allahu Akbar" comment? Or was that your idea of a joke?

Verbster.

This is how it works. A right wing agenda "news" platform makes the statement that Bergdhal's father praised Allah in front of the Whitehouse which means that Islam is on the verge of winning in the master game. This gets picked up by TCOT Twitter profiles who tweet about it. This in turn gets retweeted by a bunch of people living in a news bubble as somehow meaningful... and from here we get the idea that somehow America is on the brink of an Islamist takeover and all Obama did was laugh.

Once the "news" has spread, it is possible for people that absorb the information that they are looking for and then make out that they are somehow smart....they don't even realize the spoon is being fed to them.

That's all. It's social commentary - about how misinformed people allow themselves to become when they ignore ALL media except for the total bullshit machine they seek out.

DU

 

[GILSAN]

Once the "news" has spread, it is possible for people that absorb the information that they are looking for and then make out that they are somehow smart....they don't even realize the spoon is being fed to them.
DU

Thanks DU, for the perfect description of smart ass Liberals. Could never have said it better myself

 

[iowadawg]

The Spirit in the Sky.
That is all one needs to know.

 

[Domainace]

The Spirit in the Sky.
That is all one needs to know.

A great song, too. A Christian song by a Jewish guy. Try doing that in Riyadh.

 

[Erin Nagata]

School must be sensitive enough especially when it comes to religious beliefs, better not to put anything.

 

[Archangel]

Here's food for thought: http://news.yahoo.com/bless-you-suspension-153852989.html

A high school senior in Tennessee says she was given an in-school suspension for saying "bless you" to a classmate who had sneezed.


Kendra Turner, a student at Dyer County High School, told WMC-TV that when her teacher told her she had broken a class rule against invoking religious terms, she complained.

“She said that we’re not going to have godly speaking in her class," Turner said, "and that’s when I said we have a constitutional right. ... It’s all right to defend God and it’s our constitutional right, because we have a freedom of religion and freedom of speech."

Being suspended for saying 'bless you'? I don't see the real problem here...

 

[GILSAN]

Here's food for thought: http://news.yahoo.com/bless-you-suspension-153852989.html

Being suspended for saying 'bless you'? I don't see the real problem here...

Serves him right for saying 'bless you'. Next time he should just say "Allahu Akbar" and everything will be fine

 

[farenheit000]

In any public setting--'especially' schools--there shouldn't be any sort of imagery, references or otherwise to anything that is inclusive of some and exclusive of others. It goes against the very idea of what the word "public" means.

Just because it was there for 65 years doesn't mean it must remain that way. In the same way that racial segregation and signage (ex. coloreds/whites only) shouldn't remain visible in public.

What people believe and follow in their private lives must remain just that. Private. The United States is a secular nation that was founded by secularists that escaped England because of it's strong religious influence (among other things)--yet people like to conveniently forget all of that. Same with the phrase "In God We Trust" being put on currency in the 50s. People think it's always existed yet it's only a very young (and meaningless/pointless) practice that has no logical reason to be put on currency.

 

[Archangel]

I wanna shake your hand

In any public setting--'especially' schools--there shouldn't be any sort of imagery, references or otherwise to anything that is inclusive of some and exclusive of others. It goes against the very idea of what the word "public" means.

Just because it was there for 65 years doesn't mean it must remain that way. In the same way that racial segregation and signage (ex. coloreds/whites only) shouldn't remain visible in public.

What people believe and follow in their private lives must remain just that. Private. The United States is a secular nation that was founded by secularists that escaped England because of it's strong religious influence (among other things)--yet people like to conveniently forget all of that. Same with the phrase "In God We Trust" being put on currency in the 50s. People think it's always existed yet it's only a very young (and meaningless/pointless) practice that has no logical reason to be put on currency.

 

[Domainace]

In any public setting--'especially' schools--there shouldn't be any sort of imagery, references or otherwise to anything that is inclusive of some and exclusive of others. It goes against the very idea of what the word "public" means.

That's simply extremism. Those standards mean that an image or reference to anyone at all would be forbidden. An image of a man would exclude women. A reference to democracy would exclude those who believe in other forms of government.

The founding fathers clearly never imagined the extent of pedantic and bizarre bickering that goes on under the name of civil rights these days. Especially while the most basic civil rights they cherished, such as free speech, are being trampled.

 

[RogueWriter]

Just because it was there for 65 years doesn't mean it must remain that way.

Try saying that in the .com vs. new .gTLDs thread, lol.

 

[GILSAN]

Out with the old and in with the new... such is America... and so is Europe

 

[NameOmnia]

I have an idea. Why don't we ban all religions?
They are a weapon of mass destruction, the greatest people divider in human history and THE blinder of the inner eye.

 

[Archangel]

That's actually one hell of an idea. No one would go for it, but it'd be great

And Bieber. We need to ban Bieber. And Miley.

I have an idea. Why don't we ban all religions?
They are a weapon of mass destruction, the greatest people divider in human history and THE blinder of the inner eye.