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The NP's Official USA Political Thread

Located in The Break Room started by lennco, Jul 20, 2012.

Replies:
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Who is to Blame for the Troubled US Economy?

  1. Both Parties

    175 vote(s)
    49.2%
  2. Neither Party

    31 vote(s)
    8.7%
  3. Democrats

    66 vote(s)
    18.5%
  4. Republicans

    84 vote(s)
    23.6%
Total: 356 vote(s)
  1. discobull

    discobull Top Member VIP

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    "All nationalists have the power of not seeing resemblances between similar sets of facts. A British Tory will defend self-determination in Europe and oppose it in India with no feeling of inconsistency. Actions are held to be good or bad, not on their own merits, but according to who does them, and there is almost no kind of outrage — torture, the use of hostages, forced labour, mass deportations, imprisonment without trial, forgery, assassination, the bombing of civilians — which does not change its moral colour when it is committed by ‘our’ side. "

    -- George Orwell
     
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  2. Dream Big

    Dream Big Established Member

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    I wonder why they did not include Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan and its neighboring country on the list.
     
  3. Varon

    Varon Established Member ★★★★★★★★★★

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    You do have a point there. We became gullible because many people till today blindly believe every damn word spoken by the MSM. The MSM had become so powerful that even politicians were afraid of being on the wrong side of the media or it's owners. One can clearly see today how frustrated the media is with Trump for completely ignoring them and using social media instead. They, for the first time, feel powerless and can see that the game of deceit they had been playing for decades and influencing the American people is no longer working. I rarely watch the local news, but when I do, it's all about theft, larceny, shootings, war or creating fear. There is nothing positive they can ever talk about. The media has always believed that fear keeps audiences tuned and helps build viewer ratings.
     
  4. E-Promote

    E-Promote Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    MSM is corporate media. Multinational corporations also control our politicians. There motives are pure profit motives, not truth or justice or human rights. Both the repubs and the dems (yes they both deserve lower case) have sold out to them and represent them much more than they do you. This is how Trump got into office, because even though most people can't identify the real problem (legalized bribery of our Govt), they are simply sick of politicians.

    A big reality check is needed for Trump supporters however, because he is not in this for you either. He ran as a populist to get in and now he doesn't need you anymore. Trump is in it just to benefit himself and his brand (as he has ALWAYS done) and his admin is determined to once again simply execute the bidding of multinational corporations for profit.
     
  5. enlytend

    enlytend Moderator, NamePros Moderator Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger ★★★★★★★★★★

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    And DT has property there. No tRump hotels in any country on the ban list.

    Temporary hold on the ban - will help those currently en route or detained.

    This whole week has Bannens fingerprints all over it.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  6. Domainace

    Domainace Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Your figures don't describe the way the orders were used, which were mainly for simple administrative things that needed to get done quickly. The executive orders were never intended to be used to get around political opposition to radical changes in governance. That was Obama's contribution. Whatever one thinks of Obamacare, it is a massive change that would have required debate in any real democracy.

    Simply, Obama perverted the intent of the executive action to override the usual democratic process. That created 2 very foreseeable results:

    1- The EO process delegitimises the new laws, and invites the opposition to also use loopholes in the democratic process to neuter or void the new laws. It's building sandcastles rather than real lasting change, which requires an effort at political consensus.

    2- The EO process used in this way creates a precedent for subsequent presidents who may hold opposing views to the current one. I think you understand this one.

    Obama took a shortcut so he could make autocratic decisions, and now everyone will pay the price.

    For the record, I don't like that Trump is using executive orders to push so much through. For the same reasons. Most of these won't hold when challenged, and the next President (probably a Marxist or along those lines) can simply do the same. The US will become like a banana republic, with political extremes swinging wildly as administrations change. That never ends well.

    And, by the way, why would a Trump supporter's hypocrisy have any effect on yours? If it's hypocritical, it's hypocritical.
     
  7. enlytend

    enlytend Moderator, NamePros Moderator Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger ★★★★★★★★★★

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    It seems the ban was not reviewed by the state department, justice department, DHS, DOD, or NSC lawyers. Immigration and customs were notified when it was a done deal.
    https://lawfareblog.com/malevolence...horrifying-executive-order-refugees-and-visas

    While this was happening, NSC was restructured so that the principles committee now includes Bannen and no longer includes the DNI and chair of the joint chiefs of staff. I repeat - the director of national intelligence and highest ranking military officer in the country are being replaced with Bannen.

    So now Moscow Mike and a white supremacist blogger control the National Security Council.
    https://twitter.com/zekejmiller/status/825482075759316992

    No words - I'm just going to leave that there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  8. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Donald, your wife is an immigrant.
    Immigrants made America great.
     
  9. discobull

    discobull Top Member VIP

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    I'm sorry, but this is utter nonsense in every respect. Here are some examples of executive orders issued before Obama. Let me know if they sound like "simple administrative things".

    - The emancipation proclamation was an executive order
    - Roosevelt set up the Japanese internment camps by executive order
    - Carter created FEMA by executive order
    - GWB issued an executive order authorizing the NSA to eavesdrop on American citizens without a warrant

    There are plenty of other examples.

    Moreover, there is no way to do an end run around the safeguards provided by the constitution which sets limits on what can be done by executive order. Reasonable people can disagree about what those limitations are, and when disagreements arise, we have a court system in place that allows executive orders to be challenged. If Obama had somehow managed to sidestep those safeguards as you claim, then some of his EO's wouldn't have been overturned in court, would they?

    Lastly, do you seriously believe that an authoritarian like Trump would be doing things differently if not for Obama? How about we hold Trump accountable for his actions instead of trying to shift the blame for what he does onto Obama?
     
  10. discobull

    discobull Top Member VIP

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    While I agree that the MSM should not be trusted blindly, the notion that Trump frustrates the media by speaking the truth directly to Americans is quite frankly ridiculous. If he frustrates the media, it's more generally because he lies all the time. For example, his assertion that there was voter fraud to the tune of 3 to 5 million is something he just made up. His story about sending investigators to Hawaii to look into Obama's birth certificate was another piece of fiction. He never met Putin on the set of 60 minutes, he never saw thousands of people celebrating on the streets of NJ on 9/11, and he doesn't have secret information proving that Russia wasn't behind the DNC hacking. The list goes on and on. Trump has learned that all he needs to do is assert things emphatically, and no matter how preposterous or unsubstantiated his claims are, some people will believe everything he says.

    It's true that people who believe everything they get from the mainstream media are sheep, but people who blindly reject everything they get from the MSM and mindlessly regurgitate everything they get from Trump & the right wing media are also sheep. The only difference is that they follow a different shepherd.
     
  11. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Some should have, like the warrantless surveillance of all Americans, but the FISA courts are kangaroo courts. The other problem is secrecy: the people and the courts cannot hold the government accountable for actions that are concealed from the public.
    The government thinks that if you have something to hide, you are doing something bad, therefore you should have no right to privacy. But then why is the government holding people indefinitely without trial on a remote island, and rendering 'parallel' 'justice' far from prying eyes ? It sure has something dirty to hide.

    In normal countries, even in struggling democracies, presidents have been impeached and jailed for much less than what GWB and Obama have done (things have changed since Nixon). When the courts and the institutions are powerless in front of the executive branch, we have broken checks and balances, and a failed democracy.
     
  12. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  13. drissesco

    drissesco Established Member

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    Off to a great start Destroying the United States.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. En

    En Account Auto-Closed

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    Terry Branstad Governor of Iowa

    Believes that animals are nothing more than human /final waste product/ and believes in hiding the truth (and gagging those who do not agree).

    "signed a bill that will make it much more difficult for animal welfare advocates to sneak cameras into Iowa's factory livestock farms."

    http://www.motherjones.com/tom-phil...vernor-keep-iowas-factory-farms-shielded-view

    “As long as it’s standing up and laying eggs, that’s all that matters,”

    "Rather than confront these abuses, Big Ag—which produces most of our meat, eggs and dairy—has sought to conceal them by pushing a spate of Orwellian “ag-gag” bills in state legislatures across the country. Ag-gag, a term coined by food journalism veteran Mark Bittman, is a type of anti-whistleblower legislation designed to criminalize the documentation of cruelty to animals, rather than the cruelty itself. Many ag-gag bills impose criminal penalties for photographing or videotaping inside factory farms and slaughterhouses."

    "Last year, the investigator working undercover at New England’s largest egg farm found rows and rows of chickens packed tightly into cages so small they were unable to even extend their wings. He found dead ones—mummified and flattened like pancakes—sharing cage space with live hens who continued to lay eggs for human consumption. Some of those eggs were covered in blood."

    http://www.commondreams.org/views/2...actory-farming-finally-stop-its-culture-abuse

    [​IMG]

    "Ringling Brothers is phasing out their elephants. I,for one, will never go again. They probably used the animal rights stuff to reduce costs"

    Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 5, 2015
     
  15. enlytend

    enlytend Moderator, NamePros Moderator Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger ★★★★★★★★★★

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    One thing I have noticed lately is that some which had gotten lazy are definitely upping their game. Probably for survival because there's much more awareness and fact checking by their readers, but still a good thing.
     
  16. Dream Big

    Dream Big Established Member

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    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  17. enlytend

    enlytend Moderator, NamePros Moderator Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I'm all for vetting immigrants carefully - we already DO that with green card / visa holders. This ban even extended to existing green card holders who've been living / working here for years, have families here ...people who were out of the country on business or visiting family were detained.

    A freakin FIVE YEAR OLD (US citizen) was detained Saturday, FFS. He was traveling with another family member and his mother (who is Iranian) was meeting him at Dulles. Kept from his mother for hours.

    http://wjla.com/news/local/video-mo...nited-after-he-was-detained-at-dulles-airport

    The countries affected by the ban are countries whose citizens have NEVER been the cause of a terrorist incident in the US. Conveniently omitted - Saudi Arabia, UAR, Egypt which have. Funny coincidence that he owns multiple properties in those three, none in the others.

    You're far more likely to die falling out of bed than being killed by an islamic terrorist.
    reasonstemp.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  18. Domainace

    Domainace Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    So these are your examples? They all went well didn't they? If your point is to diminish Obama's contribution to this list, keep in mind that none of these were as expansive as his orders. Bush's order was secret. Carter's was for am agency to respond to emergencies, which could hardly be called controversial at the time. Roosevelt was an authoritarian tyrant acting during war.

    And none of the examples you cited used EO as a way to get around strong political opposition, with the exception of the emancipation proclamation - also issued during wartime.

    Sorry, but Obama's use of the executive order was brazen and public, and a way of avoiding the political process. I highly doubt Trump would be legislating by executive order had Obama not made the habit current and acceptable. I didn't hear a single Democrat question the use of those executive orders to achieve their goals. In fact, they mostly cheered. Had he not made the process acceptable and familiar, Trump would have little chance of getting away with it himself.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  19. E-Promote

    E-Promote Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    And I thought republicans hated communists. I guess you get a free pass when you help their latest con job concoction get elected. Your actor hero Reagan would roll over in his grave if he read that quote yet none of you protest it...now that's some real integrity folks.
     
  20. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    Lot of rogue, alternate Twitter accounts and FB pages popping up. Trump thought he could silence everybody, here are a few:

    somebody supposedly from his stuff - The unofficial resistance team inside the White House
    https://twitter.com/roguepotusstaff

    Keep the pressure on until they start dropping out.

    "Overheard through locked door: "Don't they know I'm the f--- President!?" POTUS displeased at resistance."

    "POTUS fuming after judge order last night. Suggested having agents to "do it anyway" & ignore order. Preibus said to be at wits end."

    "POTUS fully overwhelmed after full week on the job. Things spilling over into out of office lives for everyone."

    "Attempts to get POTUS to work on policy failed. Retreats to residence, skulking over McCain/Lindsey announcement and public protests."

    "COS Priebus said to be using appearance on MTP this morning to guide decision to stay or go. Positive panic by many at prospect of his resg."

    "Priebus calling @MeetThePress interview "disaster." POTUS appears uncooperative on fixing EO problems, more worried about press coverage."

    nasa
    https://twitter.com/RogueNASA

    59 National Park Service employees from nine different National Parks
    https://www.facebook.com/AltUSNationalParkService/?fref=nf

    @alt_fda @AltNatParkSer @altUSEPA @RogueNASA @Alt_NIH @altNOAA @AlternativeNWS @AltForestServ @AltNatParkSer @altusda
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  21. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    Shortly after, he's tweeting about them - https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump

    "The joint statement of former presidential candidates John McCain & Lindsey Graham is wrong - they are sadly weak on immigration. The two...

    ...Senators should focus their energies on ISIS, illegal immigration and border security instead of always looking to start World War III."

    What a joke. He's mad about this press release from them:

    http://www.mccain.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=587F2A2D-8A47-48F7-9045-CF30F0A77889
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  22. Domainace

    Domainace Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Bannon was clearly referring to his revolutionary strategy rather than his political practices. I have no idea what Bannon's political beliefs are.
     
  23. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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  24. lennco

    lennco Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Ex-Soviet Leader Mikhail Gorbachev: ‘World Is Preparing for War’
    Jan 27 2017, 5:49 am ET
    Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev warned Friday that "it all looks as if the world is preparing for war."

    Gorbachev, who was head of the socialist state when it dissolved in 1991, wrote the comments in an opinion piece for Time magazine.

    [​IMG]
    Mikhail Gorbachev AFP/Getty Images
    "More troops, tanks and armored personnel carriers are being brought to Europe," the 85-year-old wrote. "NATO and Russian forces and weapons that used to be deployed at a distance are now placed closer to each other, as if to shoot point-blank."

    The 1990 Nobel Peace Prize-winner added: "Politicians and military leaders sound increasingly belligerent and defense doctrines more dangerous. Commentators and TV personalities are joining the bellicose chorus. It all looks as if the world is preparing for war."

    Thousands of U.S. troops have been sent to eastern Europe in recent weeks, the largest deployment of its kind since the Cold War.

    Gorbachev oversaw an agreement with the U.S. to reduce their nuclear arsenals. President Donald Trump, however, has suggested he could bolster the number of such weapons at his disposal, something that would reverse decades of American policy.

    Trump has said he would like to expand America's nuclear weapons, telling MSNBC's Morning Joe in December: "Let it be an arms race."

    This proposed reversal of decades of U.S. policy was in part what moved a group of scientists Thursday to move the metaphorical Doomsday Clock to two minutes and 30 seconds before midnight — the time that represents when a catastrophic nuclear event can annihilate the earth.

    [​IMG]
    Scientists: President Trump advancing 'Doomsday clock' 1:14
    Trump has signaled he may seek a rapprochement with his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, including lifting sanctions imposed by Barack Obama over Moscow's annexation of Crimea.

    Trump has also called NATO "obsolete", and Russian media said he and Putin were expected to speak on the phone Saturday.

    Some expects fear that if Trump undermines NATO and cozies up to Russia, Putin may be emboldened to interfere in other former Soviet countries.

    "While state budgets are struggling to fund people's essential social needs, military spending is growing," Gorbachev wrote. "Money is easily found for sophisticated weapons whose destructive power is comparable to that of the weapons of mass destruction; for submarines whose single salvo is capable of devastating half a continent; for missile defense systems that undermine strategic stability."

    Gorbachev urged the United Nations Security Council to adopt a resolution stating that "nuclear war is unacceptable and must never be fought," and said the initiative to sign it should come from Trump and Putin.

    http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ex-soviet-leader-mikhail-gorbachev-world-preparing-war-n712891

    :xf.eek::xf.frown::xf.eek::xf.frown::xf.eek::xf.frown::xf.eek::xf.frown::xf.eek::xf.frown::xf.eek:
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
  25. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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