The DEATH of "domaining" as we know it..

[mjnels]

I think its possible traditional domaining is going to die..or at least come to a slow crawl and take a lonnnnng nap. No, probably not in legacy TLD's like .COM, .ORG or popular ccTLD's. Although I think those prices are done going up for the most part. They're likely gonna level off, especially mediocre ones and longtail.

I'm mostly talking about newish gTLD's where people on this forum register them in hopes to sell them for more money than they paid with zero development, even Top-Tier words/phrases. There is so much choice now and the business model has changed to a Top-Down type of thing. The registries and registrars are the new domainers. With some exceptions - it probably isn't going to be like it used to or even close.

I include "older gTLD" like .INFO in this too... I guess I haven't been following sales prices lately, but I cant see "traditional domainers" making money off top-tier words in gTLD like they used to. Beyond the hype not being able to sustain itself and prices being spread too thin across the board, the number of choices offered will result in MUCH lower prices than when just 1 or 2 new gTLD (or re-purposed ccTLD like .co) were released every year.

The flood is coming.. it may seem like its already here but just wait until renewal time..and next renewal time, and the next one. Although, isn't that somewhat the point of the new gTLD? To give people that are actually going to use them more choice (and line ICANN's pockets..) Well, you can argue "we don't need the choice" but that is irrelevant because its here now regardless of the reason. Prices are gonna drop farther than they already have. Once the registrars/registries have sold the "good stuff" during the hype phase a good portion of them will likely start whoring them out at cheaper prices.

I'm talking "single letter" domains for at or under $100. You betcha. A lot of the reserved and ICANN restricted domains are not even out yet.. like the ones on the "name collision list." And yes, I am aware "single letter" isn't what it used to mean when the TLD itself is 12 characters long, but still..

I'm not saying gTLD wont eventually get used by businesses. I believe they overwhelmingly WILL be in the future. Too many cool intuitive phrases for it not to happen and now they're featured on the front page of every registrar. Its da future and the common person will know they exist now. But they're not going to be forced to buy top tier words from traditional domainers as much as they used to be... unless there is an influx of 100x as many "domainers" as there are now.

So all you people trying to "get in early" on the next big thing... become a registry or registrar with a good angle. Otherwise what you have here is mostly likely an expensive hobby/obsession/tax write off.

 

[Blake]

The $0.99 .com registration is only done via codes and the vast majority of buyers simply don't know about the codes. I know when I started I was paying full price until I got a better handle on getting the discounts and codes. I guess it's just one side of the speculation but it's very important to remember that not everyone is hip to the discounts and codes that we as domainers enjoy on a daily basis.

 

[kippy]

It's still a very small price of like $10-$15 per year...versus a premium new gtld of xxx-xxxx per year. There is quite a big difference there and the vast majority of buyers will go for xx.

 

[kippy]

Not only that.... the pricing structure for some of these 'Premium' domains on the new gTLDs is laughable, the smart business knows they pay a 1 time price for a good 1 or 2 keyword trusted .COM domain name and that's all, they're paying $8-$12 bucks a year to renew it and it's done with. Some of these registrars are practically pimping their names at hundreds, some even thousands of dollars per year to renew.

Especially that ICANN now changed policies again on allowed renewal rates, Look at a 1 word domain that doesn't even make sense: Lawyer.rentals is charging 129 to reg, and 129 a year to renew. 5 years of operating on that crappy domain and you paid 650 dollars, 10 years you paid 1300. You could probably buy LawyerRentals.com for $xxx and pay only $8-$12 a year to renew and you're operating on safe waters and PLUS you may be holding onto an asset that you can resell if you desired to get your original investment back *with* profit, that 129 renewel every year is going to hurt your pitch... risky waters.

Then you've got a lot of people registering 1 word domains on these new TLDs only because the 2 words together make sense meanwhile the 2 words *are available* to be reg'd on .COM and haven't even been touched in years. What is this saying about all of this hype going on right now in the domaining community? People aren't thinking straight and they think this is still the mid 90s and they're jumping on a bandwagon to get rich, like they've got casino fever.

BET.Kiwi sold for $8,818 dollars and guess what, BETKIWI.com was available for regfee at the same time and someone else registered it probably with a $2 coupon - Unbelievablely wasteful and illogical "investments" going on and the more I'm seeing this the more I realize when renewals come around, wow, are we going to see a landrush of drops and we won't be speculating anymore about .COM remaining king.

Next time you folks go to register Chemicals.xyz or GoldBuying.ninja - Be sure to add ChemicalsXYZ.com and GoldBuyingNinja.com to your carts because in a couple of years from now if your site does take off I bet you'll be looking to acquire those .COMs you didn't even bother to check to see if they were available at regfee and *they* were, but you were "blinded by the dot" and thought you had something premium, but you really only had something brandable with a dot in the middle of it that a visitor would probably trust less then if it was just the exact keystring on .com

All the while driving up the value and the demand for .com. In fact, I think this was icann and registries strategies. Let's release a ton of new gtlds because we know .com are over 100+million registrations. We'll make more money and then people will spend more money when they realize they need to get the .com for whatever their brand is....it's a win/win for us and a lose/lose for them. I can see it. It's actually a brilliant strategy.

 

[kippy]

The $0.99 .com registration is only done via codes and the vast majority of buyers simply don't know about the codes. I know when I started I was paying full price until I got a better handle on getting the discounts and codes. I guess it's just one side of the speculation but it's very important to remember that not everyone is hip to the discounts and codes that we as domainers enjoy on a daily basis.

It's not done via codes. I went to 1and1.com and I can put it in the cart without any code!

 

[equity78]

All the while driving up the value and the demand for .com. In fact, I think this was icann and registries strategies. Let's release a ton of new gtlds because we know .com are over 100+million registrations. We'll make more money and then people will spend more money when they realize they need to get the .com for whatever their brand is....it's a win/win for us and a lose/lose for them. I can see it. It's actually a brilliant strategy.

Yeah that wasn't their strategy at all, A .com being bought for $50,000 or $500,000 puts no money in the pocket of ICANN. ICANN makes money by people paying $185,000 application fee and the yearly fees paid to them by every live string, its good to be the King.

Registries certainly did not get into it for that reason, some people sold their good to great .coms to get involved in the registry side. Donuts is not losing, you can look at .Luxury the value of .com going up was not the play Monica Kirchner was making, they have a little over 1000 registrations but at a price of $650 to $850 per reg so they are already making money.

Most registries got into it to print money, they can make money while every speculator in their extension makes no money due to the fact there is no aftermarket.

 

[kippy]

Yeah that wasn't their strategy at all, A .com being bought for $50,000 or $500,000 puts no money in the pocket of ICANN. ICANN makes money by people paying $185,000 application fee and the yearly fees paid to them by every live string, its good to be the King.

Registries certainly did not get into it for that reason, some people sold their good to great .coms to get involved in the registry side. Donuts is not losing, you can look at .Luxury the value of .com going up was not the play Monica Kirchner was making, they have a little over 1000 registrations but at a price of $650 to $850 per reg so they are already making money.

Most registries got into it to print money, they can make money while every speculator in their extension makes no money due to the fact there is no aftermarket.

So the release of new gtlds makes icann and registries more money. That's a great strategy for increasing their revenues. It still creates more value for leader which happens to be .com?

Yes they are targeting a more sophisticated audience/investor at xxx pricing. The average joe will whether small business (which appears to be increasing as many, many businesses are still not online) will increase demand for what they already know and trust....ie a dot com.

Will the millions of these small businesses go for a xxx premium for their brand? The investors of these premiums have to make a return, so I doubt they are going to sell them for lower prices to compete with a $.99 .com. Unless google does the loss leader .google and offers them for free to small businesses. That would hurt the domain market.

Like you said the aftermarket is the key...do the big companies drive the trend and market? Will big businesses switch from .com?

 

[equity78]

Look I don't see big companies moving from their .com, why would they ? Their customers have no problem with .com, its what they know, that and their local country code.

I think a lot of people in the new gtld registry side are making bets that are really long term bets, Frank Schilling once said that he was focused on people who could not even read yet. Will new generations grow up and care about extensions ? Will they be just as accustomed to using .com as their parents and older siblings ?

I don't like really long term technology based bets, I think you have to focus most of your efforts in the now, with an eye to the future of course, but I can't imagine putting all the eggs in the future basket and not making money in the present.

 

[RogueWriter]

I don't think any of the new .gtlds ever counted on big business switching from .com. The stoic old businesses will stay on .com, and new businesses will emerge over the next two decades that have no allegiance to .com. The new extensions are providing an opportunity, but a lot of domainers are sticking their heads in the sand, pretending that internet business will never evolve, will never expand, will never need new extensions.

Domaining is not a this or that business, you do not have to choose to invest in one or the other. Buy and sell your dot coms, but look for opportunities, they exist.

 

[equity78]

I don't think any of the new .gtlds ever counted on big business switching from .com. The stoic old businesses will stay on .com, and new businesses will emerge over the next two decades that have no allegiance to .com. The new extensions are providing an opportunity, but a lot of domainers are sticking their heads in the sand, pretending that internet business will never evolve, will never expand, will never need new extensions.

Domaining is not a this or that business, you do not have to choose to invest in one or the other. Buy and sell your dot coms, but look for opportunities, they exist.

Hello Tom long time no see, I think there are two separate conversations, do I believe there will be businesses using new gtlds ? Yes, if they don't buy mine and other domain investor's names in the secondary market that means little to me unless I invest in a publicly traded one like Minds and Machines.

I can see more companies using new gtlds without domain investors ever making a dime.

Now I do want to be clear I have speculated a little bit, but I would never buy one in the secondary market as an investment looking to sell for a higher price down the road, a few hundred dollars speculating is fine, I can't see putting real money into them for my personal portfolio.

 

[HeyNow]

I think its possible traditional domaining is going to die.

So true. The current crop of domain forums will probably die as well. The owners seem to eager to delete truthful, relevant posts, if those posts don't perpetuate hype, scams, and the fads which artificially inflate the values of members' "portfolios." Even the use of the word "portfolio" when referring to a domain collection, is mostly a joke and a true misuse of the word. "Portfolio," "premium," etc., have lost their true meanings in forums such as this.

The traditional, better-known domain "news" websites seem to come up a dollar short and a day late when it comes to recognizing industry scumbags and treating those scumbags as such. That documented history will probably choke those creepy publishers in the not-too-distant future. No great loss there.

The whole scene is like a pyramid scam to a large extent, pumping up the veteran domainers at the expense of newbies and suckers.

Traditional domaining WILL die, and that won't necessarily be a bad thing.

 

[gemstar]

There is only one beach front property no matter how others try to dress up their less valuable property to make it seem like your living closer, there will be only one overlooking the ocean and thats .com

 

[RogueWriter]

Hello Tom long time no see, I think there are two separate conversations, do I believe there will be businesses using new gtlds ? Yes, if they don't buy mine and other domain investor's names in the secondary market that means little to me unless I invest in a publicly traded one like Minds and Machines.

I can see more companies using new gtlds without domain investors ever making a dime.

Now I do want to be clear I have speculated a little bit, but I would never buy one in the secondary market as an investment looking to sell for a higher price down the road, a few hundred dollars speculating is fine, I can't see putting real money into them for my personal portfolio.

Hiyas yourself, Ray. Fair points, and certainly the plethora of options will make it easier for a company to find a decent alternative. Given that the premium keywords within the newer extensions often come with higher renewal, sometimes unreasonably so, that also makes a domainer's job more difficult.

Yet, I think that if there is one truth that runs through all of domaining it would be that a quality domain, a domain that survives all of the filters that an experienced domainer will put it through, will find itself in demand, if not immediately then at some point in the future.

Before these extensions started being released I had dropped my portfolio down to about 120 domains. I even allowed a few to drop that I could have kept, but I was trying to cut all of the fluff out of my portfolio, down to ones that, when I look at them I think yeah, I could build a core business around that single domain.

Since then I am back up to about 170 domains, forty or so of them new .gtlds.

I have the exact seem feeling that I had back when all those .TVs dropped at midnight years ago and there were only a few dozen of us up in the middle of the night trying to register as many as possible - only, the sheer number of extensions has reduced the necessity to register everything immediately, today.

Yesterday I registered Artist.Supply and FortWorth.supply, decent keywords, and both have renewal fees in the low twenties. I think those are quality domains, yet the extension has been out now for a month; I am relatively surprised at the lack of competition for dominate keywords in some of these better extensions.

With deepest respect, I do think there are domains in these extensions that retain value, not just as development opportunities but also as investment opportunities, albeit down the road. These will not be, for the most part, overnight flips.

Average to poor new .gtld domains will never sell, just like average to poor .coms will never sell, imo.

 

[equity78]

Look I believe Tom there are names that make sense with the new gtlds, we as domain investors a lot of times are getting screwed from all angles, some great names on collision list, some are reserved to auction off at end user prices, some have crazy premium pricing.

The next thing that makes it difficult is the limitless supply, these extensions are going to keep coming out so you need to really get lucky or sell for a lower price.

I think just making a profit will be good, I sold Six.tv for $25,000 with a $500 premium renewal years ago, I can't imagine making a $25,000 sale from one of the new gtlds that I can hand register, I could see a great one selling for that but it will probably be registered in the four figure range. Again just my opinion.

I see businesses using them if I owned a Fashion company, I might want my business on a .com and use Dress.sexy for a promotion, I think businesses will use these extensions as satellites.

 

[kippy]

Look I believe Tom there are names that make sense with the new gtlds, we as domain investors a lot of times are getting screwed from all angles, some great names on collision list, some are reserved to auction off at end user prices, some have crazy premium pricing.

The next thing that makes it difficult is the limitless supply, these extensions are going to keep coming out so you need to really get lucky or sell for a lower price.

I think just making a profit will be good, I sold Six.tv for $25,000 with a $500 premium renewal years ago, I can't imagine making a $25,000 sale from one of the new gtlds that I can hand register, I could see a great one selling for that but it will probably be registered in the four figure range. Again just my opinion.

I see businesses using them if I owned a Fashion company, I might want my business on a .com and use Dress.sexy for a promotion, I think businesses will use these extensions as satellites.

This is sensible....yes....will not overtake the mainstream especially when .com can be registered for a dollar for the year. They are referral domains to the main domain...but they are not main brand domains...unless you get a really amazing that you advertise. I don't recall going to a great brands website other than .com. It's really interesting though. I have a feeling it's driving up the value of .com. It shouldn't really if you think about it because why is .com different than .xyz? Yet, it's the public trust, knowledge and experience with it. It's really a weird thing. I actually like .company....but it's not .com. Why? It's like New York City...there's only one...you can go to Boston, Chicago, LA...but they are not NY. It's a strange world we live in. I like your comment about ROI too. I think the ROIs on these new gtlds won't be as good as previous because of the renewals, demand, etc....could be wrong but you bring up some good points.

 

[Deathstarr]

I hate to tell you but domaining will always be domaining. It depends on what you register. If you register crap your wont sell crap.

Domaining even back in the day is all about what you buy, how you buy, where you sell, and ho good you can sell. If you do not register good names then no one is going to come and try to buy them. You have to look at the new GTLDs is just another way for you to make money doing what you love.

 

[DomainVP]

Domaining is dead right now as we speak.

 

[forge]

Domaining is dead right now as we speak.

Now explain your reasoning for having made such a bold statement.

 

[DomainVP]

Now explain your reasoning for having made such a bold statement.

It's just not as profitable as it was.

The well is dry, and the few nuggets that the public has a shot at are devoured quickly at maximum prices.

Domaining is dead for new domainers, unless you have a hefty bankroll.

 

[RaiderGirl]

Give these gTLD's a couple years and you'll find you wont need the discount codes.

 

[jmcc]

Give these gTLD's a couple years and you'll find you wont need the discount codes.

The way some of them are going, a couple of years is on the optimistic side. However some might yet surprise the market. Domainers tend to see the daily registration volume and think that the new gTLDs should have registration volume like .CO, .MOBI and .EU in their landrush phases.

The volume is in .COM and the major ccTLDs. It has been increasingly drifting towards those TLDs over the last few years and other gTLDs are effectively on the wrong side of that trend.

Regards...jmcc

 

[Kate]

It's time for the rollout of .rip

 

[forge]

Rock is also dead. Long live rock!

 

[mufad]

I read many people get domains for $0.99 but most of the companies that I have seen like godaddy and 1and1 offer that price only for your first domain, or 1.99 for first year only if you register for 2 or more years together, or free domain if you purchase hosting or email package with it. These offers cannot be used with coupons. So do you make a new account for each of your domains to avail the $0.99 price for each of your domains or is there some way to manage all your domains in one account and still pay $0.99 for a new domain ?
Thanks for reply in advance.

 

[FX]

I don't like really long term technology based bets, I think you have to focus most of your efforts in the now, with an eye to the future of course, but I can't imagine putting all the eggs in the future basket and not making money in the present.

Perfectly said!

 

[domainmisc]

It's not done via codes. I went to 1and1.com and I can put it in the cart without any code!

:O. I had to read your post twice to make sure I read it correctly. I would much rather use Godaddy $.99 coupon than 1&1.

Most of the new gtlds won't be known unless someone develops something unique on them, I mean how many new extensions are there? .tech, .technology, do we really need two gtlds related to technology, why not just .tech?