The DEATH of "domaining" as we know it..

[mjnels]

I think its possible traditional domaining is going to die..or at least come to a slow crawl and take a lonnnnng nap. No, probably not in legacy TLD's like .COM, .ORG or popular ccTLD's. Although I think those prices are done going up for the most part. They're likely gonna level off, especially mediocre ones and longtail.

I'm mostly talking about newish gTLD's where people on this forum register them in hopes to sell them for more money than they paid with zero development, even Top-Tier words/phrases. There is so much choice now and the business model has changed to a Top-Down type of thing. The registries and registrars are the new domainers. With some exceptions - it probably isn't going to be like it used to or even close.

I include "older gTLD" like .INFO in this too... I guess I haven't been following sales prices lately, but I cant see "traditional domainers" making money off top-tier words in gTLD like they used to. Beyond the hype not being able to sustain itself and prices being spread too thin across the board, the number of choices offered will result in MUCH lower prices than when just 1 or 2 new gTLD (or re-purposed ccTLD like .co) were released every year.

The flood is coming.. it may seem like its already here but just wait until renewal time..and next renewal time, and the next one. Although, isn't that somewhat the point of the new gTLD? To give people that are actually going to use them more choice (and line ICANN's pockets..) Well, you can argue "we don't need the choice" but that is irrelevant because its here now regardless of the reason. Prices are gonna drop farther than they already have. Once the registrars/registries have sold the "good stuff" during the hype phase a good portion of them will likely start whoring them out at cheaper prices.

I'm talking "single letter" domains for at or under $100. You betcha. A lot of the reserved and ICANN restricted domains are not even out yet.. like the ones on the "name collision list." And yes, I am aware "single letter" isn't what it used to mean when the TLD itself is 12 characters long, but still..

I'm not saying gTLD wont eventually get used by businesses. I believe they overwhelmingly WILL be in the future. Too many cool intuitive phrases for it not to happen and now they're featured on the front page of every registrar. Its da future and the common person will know they exist now. But they're not going to be forced to buy top tier words from traditional domainers as much as they used to be... unless there is an influx of 100x as many "domainers" as there are now.

So all you people trying to "get in early" on the next big thing... become a registry or registrar with a good angle. Otherwise what you have here is mostly likely an expensive hobby/obsession/tax write off.

 

[Horizonconcepts]

I have to say that I agree completely with a lot of the these comments.HOWEVER,Domain investors have to change with the times,we must adapt and overcome.I have been domain investing for over15 years,I missed the early boat,but still have made good money along the way.
The days of being lazy and just sitting on domains hoping they sell is over,domainers have to develop.A quick real example is this,we wanted to build out a site a few months go,but to get the domain we wanted to hatch our cunning plan would be over 1million in the .com,all other major extensions were taken.So we brought a new gtld with a short extension,and our required key word in front of it.The site launched 6 weeks ago,and we already have over 1million page views and 80K uniques in the first 6 weeks,we are currently monetorizing it to make it profitable,so it can be done.

 

[Horizonconcepts]

Thank you,whoever gave me the"like" appreciated.

 

[Kate]

The days of being lazy and just sitting on domains hoping they sell is over,domainers have to develop.

Well, this is not pure play domaining anymore, but web development. I do development but I also 'sit' on domains that will get sold, unless I find the time to use them. As long as I can sell domains passively, domaining is not dead for me.

 

[kippy]

it depends on adoption and recognition by the public. something like .condos has a different meaning to most people than .apartments, .realestate, .housing, etc - it's specific to a style of housing that people look for.

If the public can get acclimated to the right side of the dot being a specific word that mean's it's a web site, then there will be a market for it. If the world still thinks miami.condos is a typo in 5 years, then it's not going to go so well.

Or worse, imagine sending an email to miami.condos.

[email protected]

Hmmm..I think I'd rather send to [email protected]

 

[kippy]

Some of this commentary treats domains like trading cards.
There will be new speculators creating artificial spikes in value. There will be corrections.

In the end all domains that one can build a business around will be valuable. As always.
All domains that drive customer acquisition will be sought for.
Those that are less meaningful, memorable, have poor syntax, etc... will be less desirable. As always.

Miners pull more gold from the ground EVERY day.
Consumers and industries absorb that supply handily.
When you correct for currency supply, gold prices are quite stable.

Domains are like cyber gold. Nothing is dead.

Who made the money during the gold rush? It wasn't the ones who found gold. It was those who sold the picks and shovels. Hmmm...it appears registrars and icann have quite the business plan. How about we invest in their businesses instead?

 

[xpimp]

After launching the first extensions in the 90's, they made sure that they will never repeat the same mistake by let everyone to take the goodies on the new gtlds. That's why i didn t register even one single new gtld. Why bother, really? if the registrar holds the best ones and sells them at a higher price because they are "premium" and lets everyone else to take the garbage.

 

[tomcarl]

My .COM sales have been better than ever in the last couple of months. Businesses will realize that the whole new gTLD will lead to nothing but mass confusion and owning Miami.condos will be no more beneficial than owning MiamiCondos.com because you're only risking putting your business into a dogpile of 1000 other Miami.keyword domain names and your visitors won't know where to place their dots and when one keyword starts and the other one ends. Yeh these are 'cutesy' names to own but at the end of the day del.icio.us purchased delicious.com

You want people to find you conveniently without any chance of them forgetting your brand, what way to do that by sticking random dots in the middle of keystrings? This is the reason the majority of businesses stuck with .COM, the main pool, rather than .NET, .INFO, .BIZ, .US, that have all been around for years. If the argument the Internet will be changing within 10 years and .COM will be dead, that means every website address is basically going to be a hack? BuyOur.Shoes, TheBestMiami.condos? As I've said before, the only winners are going to be a handful of single keyword domains on extensions that fit perfectly, like a .Club

You think these companies who've invested hundreds of thousands and millions are going to devalue their assets by switching their entire business models up because every dictionary word now has a dot before it? I don't think the internet is 'evolving' to all website addresses that are keyword hacks and smart developers know anything more than single keyword on a non .COM is headed toward failure.

You know what they say about over-saturation of anything...they'll be a few winners, a few big reported sales, yet you'll never hear of those sites again after they're acquired.

 

[kippy]

My .COM sales have been better than ever in the last couple of months. Businesses will realize that the whole new gTLD will lead to nothing but mass confusion and owning Miami.condos will be no more beneficial than owning MiamiCondos.com because you're only risking putting your business into a dogpile of 1000 other Miami.keyword domain names and your visitors won't know where to place their dots and when one keyword starts and the other one ends. Yeh these are 'cutesy' names to own but at the end of the day del.icio.us purchased delicious.com

You want people to find you conveniently without any chance of them forgetting your brand, what way to do that by sticking random dots in the middle of keystrings? This is the reason the majority of businesses stuck with .COM, the main pool, rather than .NET, .INFO, .BIZ, .US, that have all been around for years. If the argument the Internet will be changing within 10 years and .COM will be dead, that means every website address is basically going to be a hack? BuyOur.Shoes, TheBestMiami.condos? As I've said before, the only winners are going to be a handful of single keyword domains on extensions that fit perfectly, like a .Club

You think these companies who've invested hundreds of thousands and millions are going to devalue their assets by switching their entire business models up because every dictionary word now has a dot before it? I don't think the internet is 'evolving' to all website addresses that are keyword hacks and smart developers know anything more than single keyword on a non .COM is headed toward failure.

You know what they say about over-saturation of anything...they'll be a few winners, a few big reported sales, yet you'll never hear of those sites again after they're acquired.

Good analysis...so it appears the single generic keyword domains (that are typically already registered by big time investors, registries, or those who invest a lot) are the only viable options for these new investments.

Why would a brand like Victoria Secrets switch from VictoriaSecrets.com to VictoriaSecrets.Club as their main brand. Not to say they wouldn't use the second one but their main brand is not going to change to a club. That would be like saying now Victoria Secrets is no longer Victoria Secrets, they've now rebranded their entire company name to Victoria Secrets Club. That is ludicrous. Now the only other option is a generic extension like .xyz. But that is really silly. I mean .xyz sounds crazy. Maybe I'm part of the new generation x/y that thinks .com is everything though.

Good point, I need to send an email to buy our shoes...so when I go to send my email I'll type [email protected] or is it [email protected], [email protected] or is it [email protected] or something else? I mean it crazy to think about all of the mistakes just in sending the emails. Let alone in typing in the wrong address from the memory. Just by you typing out that string, I immediately thought of buyourshoes.com.

Sometimes us investors get too smart for the average person. We think they are a lot smarter...but they are actually pretty basic. I mean really simple people who need it so dumb simple to remember.

My theory is the ones who are really going to make out on this are top registries and the players providing the picks and shovels to those of us "gold diggers"...unfortunately gold is limited in supply and thus few will find genuine nuggets while most of us will wish we had sold picks and shovels.

 

[kippy]

My .COM sales have been better than ever in the last couple of months. Businesses will realize that the whole new gTLD will lead to nothing but mass confusion and owning Miami.condos will be no more beneficial than owning MiamiCondos.com because you're only risking putting your business into a dogpile of 1000 other Miami.keyword domain names and your visitors won't know where to place their dots and when one keyword starts and the other one ends. Yeh these are 'cutesy' names to own but at the end of the day del.icio.us purchased delicious.com

You want people to find you conveniently without any chance of them forgetting your brand, what way to do that by sticking random dots in the middle of keystrings? This is the reason the majority of businesses stuck with .COM, the main pool, rather than .NET, .INFO, .BIZ, .US, that have all been around for years. If the argument the Internet will be changing within 10 years and .COM will be dead, that means every website address is basically going to be a hack? BuyOur.Shoes, TheBestMiami.condos? As I've said before, the only winners are going to be a handful of single keyword domains on extensions that fit perfectly, like a .Club

You think these companies who've invested hundreds of thousands and millions are going to devalue their assets by switching their entire business models up because every dictionary word now has a dot before it? I don't think the internet is 'evolving' to all website addresses that are keyword hacks and smart developers know anything more than single keyword on a non .COM is headed toward failure.

You know what they say about over-saturation of anything...they'll be a few winners, a few big reported sales, yet you'll never hear of those sites again after they're acquired.

The only possibility of trumping .com I can see is if they start giving .whatever away for free as a loss leader. I mean how are they going to beat a $.99 .com registration for the first year unless they do it for free? So many people see that discounted .com when they go to register versus the discounted $15+ for the first year and then increased pricing of the new tlds each year.

Unless they have some major major dollars to spend on advertising and media, do they think they are going to retrain the public to go to .whatever overnight?

Why would brand X want to go with a .apple, .microsoft, .google, .amazon gtld. Yeah, I can see Samsung.com switching to Samsung.Apple because .apple is the "hot" new gtld. Hilarious to think about! Don't you realize brands will not go with any gtld that is descriptive or boxed in any way. That's like saying Bing is going to switch to .google when Google starts offering free gtlds with .google. So now we have Bing.Google...but wait...bing is google's competitor? Or now .amazon is the hot new one...so we have microsoft.amazon....so Microsoft is now Amazon or vice versa? Or what about walmart...now it's costco.walmart...wait don't they compete with sams.club or is it samsclub.com? Are they the same company? Wow, this is a little confusing?

 

[tomcarl]

Not only that.... the pricing structure for some of these 'Premium' domains on the new gTLDs is laughable, the smart business knows they pay a 1 time price for a good 1 or 2 keyword trusted .COM domain name and that's all, they're paying $8-$12 bucks a year to renew it and it's done with. Some of these registrars are practically pimping their names at hundreds, some even thousands of dollars per year to renew.

Especially that ICANN now changed policies again on allowed renewal rates, Look at a 1 word domain that doesn't even make sense: Lawyer.rentals is charging 129 to reg, and 129 a year to renew. 5 years of operating on that crappy domain and you paid 650 dollars, 10 years you paid 1300. You could probably buy LawyerRentals.com for $xxx and pay only $8-$12 a year to renew and you're operating on safe waters and PLUS you may be holding onto an asset that you can resell if you desired to get your original investment back *with* profit, that 129 renewel every year is going to hurt your pitch... risky waters.

Then you've got a lot of people registering 1 word domains on these new TLDs only because the 2 words together make sense meanwhile the 2 words *are available* to be reg'd on .COM and haven't even been touched in years. What is this saying about all of this hype going on right now in the domaining community? People aren't thinking straight and they think this is still the mid 90s and they're jumping on a bandwagon to get rich, like they've got casino fever.

BET.Kiwi sold for $8,818 dollars and guess what, BETKIWI.com was available for regfee at the same time and someone else registered it probably with a $2 coupon - Unbelievablely wasteful and illogical "investments" going on and the more I'm seeing this the more I realize when renewals come around, wow, are we going to see a landrush of drops and we won't be speculating anymore about .COM remaining king.

Next time you folks go to register Chemicals.xyz or GoldBuying.ninja - Be sure to add ChemicalsXYZ.com and GoldBuyingNinja.com to your carts because in a couple of years from now if your site does take off I bet you'll be looking to acquire those .COMs you didn't even bother to check to see if they were available at regfee and *they* were, but you were "blinded by the dot" and thought you had something premium, but you really only had something brandable with a dot in the middle of it that a visitor would probably trust less then if it was just the exact keystring on .com

 

[Blake]

The $0.99 .com registration is only done via codes and the vast majority of buyers simply don't know about the codes. I know when I started I was paying full price until I got a better handle on getting the discounts and codes. I guess it's just one side of the speculation but it's very important to remember that not everyone is hip to the discounts and codes that we as domainers enjoy on a daily basis.

 

[kippy]

It's still a very small price of like $10-$15 per year...versus a premium new gtld of xxx-xxxx per year. There is quite a big difference there and the vast majority of buyers will go for xx.

 

[kippy]

Not only that.... the pricing structure for some of these 'Premium' domains on the new gTLDs is laughable, the smart business knows they pay a 1 time price for a good 1 or 2 keyword trusted .COM domain name and that's all, they're paying $8-$12 bucks a year to renew it and it's done with. Some of these registrars are practically pimping their names at hundreds, some even thousands of dollars per year to renew.

Especially that ICANN now changed policies again on allowed renewal rates, Look at a 1 word domain that doesn't even make sense: Lawyer.rentals is charging 129 to reg, and 129 a year to renew. 5 years of operating on that crappy domain and you paid 650 dollars, 10 years you paid 1300. You could probably buy LawyerRentals.com for $xxx and pay only $8-$12 a year to renew and you're operating on safe waters and PLUS you may be holding onto an asset that you can resell if you desired to get your original investment back *with* profit, that 129 renewel every year is going to hurt your pitch... risky waters.

Then you've got a lot of people registering 1 word domains on these new TLDs only because the 2 words together make sense meanwhile the 2 words *are available* to be reg'd on .COM and haven't even been touched in years. What is this saying about all of this hype going on right now in the domaining community? People aren't thinking straight and they think this is still the mid 90s and they're jumping on a bandwagon to get rich, like they've got casino fever.

BET.Kiwi sold for $8,818 dollars and guess what, BETKIWI.com was available for regfee at the same time and someone else registered it probably with a $2 coupon - Unbelievablely wasteful and illogical "investments" going on and the more I'm seeing this the more I realize when renewals come around, wow, are we going to see a landrush of drops and we won't be speculating anymore about .COM remaining king.

Next time you folks go to register Chemicals.xyz or GoldBuying.ninja - Be sure to add ChemicalsXYZ.com and GoldBuyingNinja.com to your carts because in a couple of years from now if your site does take off I bet you'll be looking to acquire those .COMs you didn't even bother to check to see if they were available at regfee and *they* were, but you were "blinded by the dot" and thought you had something premium, but you really only had something brandable with a dot in the middle of it that a visitor would probably trust less then if it was just the exact keystring on .com

All the while driving up the value and the demand for .com. In fact, I think this was icann and registries strategies. Let's release a ton of new gtlds because we know .com are over 100+million registrations. We'll make more money and then people will spend more money when they realize they need to get the .com for whatever their brand is....it's a win/win for us and a lose/lose for them. I can see it. It's actually a brilliant strategy.

 

[kippy]

The $0.99 .com registration is only done via codes and the vast majority of buyers simply don't know about the codes. I know when I started I was paying full price until I got a better handle on getting the discounts and codes. I guess it's just one side of the speculation but it's very important to remember that not everyone is hip to the discounts and codes that we as domainers enjoy on a daily basis.

It's not done via codes. I went to 1and1.com and I can put it in the cart without any code!

 

[equity78]

All the while driving up the value and the demand for .com. In fact, I think this was icann and registries strategies. Let's release a ton of new gtlds because we know .com are over 100+million registrations. We'll make more money and then people will spend more money when they realize they need to get the .com for whatever their brand is....it's a win/win for us and a lose/lose for them. I can see it. It's actually a brilliant strategy.

Yeah that wasn't their strategy at all, A .com being bought for $50,000 or $500,000 puts no money in the pocket of ICANN. ICANN makes money by people paying $185,000 application fee and the yearly fees paid to them by every live string, its good to be the King.

Registries certainly did not get into it for that reason, some people sold their good to great .coms to get involved in the registry side. Donuts is not losing, you can look at .Luxury the value of .com going up was not the play Monica Kirchner was making, they have a little over 1000 registrations but at a price of $650 to $850 per reg so they are already making money.

Most registries got into it to print money, they can make money while every speculator in their extension makes no money due to the fact there is no aftermarket.

 

[kippy]

Yeah that wasn't their strategy at all, A .com being bought for $50,000 or $500,000 puts no money in the pocket of ICANN. ICANN makes money by people paying $185,000 application fee and the yearly fees paid to them by every live string, its good to be the King.

Registries certainly did not get into it for that reason, some people sold their good to great .coms to get involved in the registry side. Donuts is not losing, you can look at .Luxury the value of .com going up was not the play Monica Kirchner was making, they have a little over 1000 registrations but at a price of $650 to $850 per reg so they are already making money.

Most registries got into it to print money, they can make money while every speculator in their extension makes no money due to the fact there is no aftermarket.

So the release of new gtlds makes icann and registries more money. That's a great strategy for increasing their revenues. It still creates more value for leader which happens to be .com?

Yes they are targeting a more sophisticated audience/investor at xxx pricing. The average joe will whether small business (which appears to be increasing as many, many businesses are still not online) will increase demand for what they already know and trust....ie a dot com.

Will the millions of these small businesses go for a xxx premium for their brand? The investors of these premiums have to make a return, so I doubt they are going to sell them for lower prices to compete with a $.99 .com. Unless google does the loss leader .google and offers them for free to small businesses. That would hurt the domain market.

Like you said the aftermarket is the key...do the big companies drive the trend and market? Will big businesses switch from .com?

 

[equity78]

Look I don't see big companies moving from their .com, why would they ? Their customers have no problem with .com, its what they know, that and their local country code.

I think a lot of people in the new gtld registry side are making bets that are really long term bets, Frank Schilling once said that he was focused on people who could not even read yet. Will new generations grow up and care about extensions ? Will they be just as accustomed to using .com as their parents and older siblings ?

I don't like really long term technology based bets, I think you have to focus most of your efforts in the now, with an eye to the future of course, but I can't imagine putting all the eggs in the future basket and not making money in the present.

 

[RogueWriter]

I don't think any of the new .gtlds ever counted on big business switching from .com. The stoic old businesses will stay on .com, and new businesses will emerge over the next two decades that have no allegiance to .com. The new extensions are providing an opportunity, but a lot of domainers are sticking their heads in the sand, pretending that internet business will never evolve, will never expand, will never need new extensions.

Domaining is not a this or that business, you do not have to choose to invest in one or the other. Buy and sell your dot coms, but look for opportunities, they exist.

 

[equity78]

I don't think any of the new .gtlds ever counted on big business switching from .com. The stoic old businesses will stay on .com, and new businesses will emerge over the next two decades that have no allegiance to .com. The new extensions are providing an opportunity, but a lot of domainers are sticking their heads in the sand, pretending that internet business will never evolve, will never expand, will never need new extensions.

Domaining is not a this or that business, you do not have to choose to invest in one or the other. Buy and sell your dot coms, but look for opportunities, they exist.

Hello Tom long time no see, I think there are two separate conversations, do I believe there will be businesses using new gtlds ? Yes, if they don't buy mine and other domain investor's names in the secondary market that means little to me unless I invest in a publicly traded one like Minds and Machines.

I can see more companies using new gtlds without domain investors ever making a dime.

Now I do want to be clear I have speculated a little bit, but I would never buy one in the secondary market as an investment looking to sell for a higher price down the road, a few hundred dollars speculating is fine, I can't see putting real money into them for my personal portfolio.

 

[HeyNow]

I think its possible traditional domaining is going to die.

So true. The current crop of domain forums will probably die as well. The owners seem to eager to delete truthful, relevant posts, if those posts don't perpetuate hype, scams, and the fads which artificially inflate the values of members' "portfolios." Even the use of the word "portfolio" when referring to a domain collection, is mostly a joke and a true misuse of the word. "Portfolio," "premium," etc., have lost their true meanings in forums such as this.

The traditional, better-known domain "news" websites seem to come up a dollar short and a day late when it comes to recognizing industry scumbags and treating those scumbags as such. That documented history will probably choke those creepy publishers in the not-too-distant future. No great loss there.

The whole scene is like a pyramid scam to a large extent, pumping up the veteran domainers at the expense of newbies and suckers.

Traditional domaining WILL die, and that won't necessarily be a bad thing.