NamesCon2020

Sometimes domains with hyphens make dollars and “sense”

Labeled as domains in Domain Industry News started by Alvin Brown, Apr 4, 2019.

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  1. Alvin Brown

    Alvin Brown Member VIP

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    Before I share my thoughts and unpack the title of this article, know that I fully promote buying and developing domains, preferably .com domains, without hyphens.

    There are many arguments explore when seriously considering whether or not to invest in domains with hyphens, and/or considering a domain with a hyphen ending in any extension to represent a personal or business brand online.

    While I held strong to the belief that domains with hyphens were not of much value — meaning less than $500 on a good day, I was pleasantly surprised when I explored NameBio’s most recent sales and total sales of domains with hyphens.

    I encourage you to read and review my findings, and to share your own presuppositions and experience in regards to domains with hyphens.
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. dninvestors

    dninvestors New Member

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    I won an auction for
    Government-Loans.com many years ago. I think it’s a good descriptive name.
     
  3. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Nice analysis. What you find makes sense to me - while the vast majority of domains sold, especially outside Germany, will not have hyphens, that does not mean that investing in them can not be profitable. I think a sweet spot around $1200 sales makes sense, and like you say there are certain niches where they are more accepted (would add e-sports as another to the ones you mention). And of course those selling in .de a significant fraction will be hyphenated. Because many domainers avoid them, acquisition opportunities at modest costs exist. Nice analysis clearly presented. Thanks @Alvin Brown !
     
  4. cabotower

    cabotower Top Member VIP

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    it is not uncommon to see them amongst dnjournal's reported sales.
     
  5. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    if it was posted here, I might read it

    imo….
     
  6. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    I was a little surprised by your comment. I totally respect if you don't wish to elaborate, but as a writer (but not of this article) I wonder why it is you object to clicking on a link which takes you immediately to the full article (at Domain Name Journal in this case). To me it is almost the same as simply clicking to go to a different thread at NPs. Or is there some other reason I am missing? I see someone else liked your statement, so it shows other feel the same. I am just trying to figure out the logic.

    NPs rules/guidelines say that when the content is published elsewhere a summary and/or a portion (as is done here) are to be printed here, with a link to the source with the full article. So what is done is consistent with NPs policy.

    Thanks for any explanation (as I do the same as Alvin has done here).

    Bob
     
  7. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi

    I know about hyphens and have made some dollars from those, that make cents
    so, to me.. it's not necessary to click offsite to read it

    i've noticed that you often do the same, in some of your posts about the forum,
    and to be honest i don't click on your links either.

    however, neither you or Alvin should take it personally, that's just my peeve

    because.....unless you post in an advertising/marketplace area with a link offsite,
    then to me, it's self promotion to post a link to read your article outside of those sections, regardless to what NP allows.

    you want me to read something you wrote, then post it here and I might read it.

    imo….
     
  8. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    First of all let me thank you for the response, Biggie, and let me say the position that you take is logical. In the same way most people don't click on affiliate in the sections where they are allowed, I can see some viewing news links the same (I don't see them that way, but see that they can be seen that way).
    If I might give a few reasons why there is virtue in the approach of having content elsewhere with part here and a link. Here are the main arguments I see.
    1. Longer posts are allowed. While I don't think NPs have a very short specific limit, the rules do say to keep posts concise. A summary here and a longer post with all the evidence, stats, etc. elsewhere makes sense to me. In this case Alvin provided a host of stats to back up his article which would have been awkward to totally incorporate here.
    2. Updates can be done. Let's say I make mention of a story like the Alpnames bulk transfer. Clearly that is updating every day. While I can make additional thread comments linking I can't actually edit the content on NPs, but I can on amy own blog or NameTalent or other sites like DomainNameWire. For example if there were some big new sales of hyphen domains Alvin could update his article.
    3. Enhanced content is easier. Yes, it is possible to post images and attach files here, or to format text in certain ways, but it is easier to do in Wordpress and other content management systems. I like to use word equations. While I can post a link to somewhere they are and get the image in NPs, it is easier when they are already in my bank of art at say NameTalent.
    4. The writer gets more feedback. When I publish on NameTalent I can see which posts get 50 reads and which get 500. That is important information to me as a writer. Also, comments are more closely tied to the story than in a long thread. Now I know you can see thread views here, so maybe not much different.
    5. It is visually more effective. I find that through the options available re font size, heading size, graphic content, etc. it is easier to read (often) elsewhere. I can use pull quotes to emphasize key points, etc. I have vision issues and it is way easier for me to read on offsite forums than here.
    6. Social Media Interaction Works Better. I am very active on Twitter, and I would estimate that about 1000 of my 1900 followers are outside the domain industry. I think it is important for us to stay in touch with venture capitalists, tech experts, futurists, branding experts, writers, influencers, advertising folks, etc. and social media helps. When I link to an article on a site like NameTalent or my blog it automatically inserts the image for that post and a snippet of relevant text. That link is hot clickable in Twitter. Now I can do the same with a thread here, but with a bit less impact. If I want to link to say this contribution along the way in a thread, it does not work well since the link leads here, the image for it has the text at the start of the overall thread.
    Of course there are reasons related to self-promotion (sometimes), monetization (sometimes) etc.

    Don't get me wrong, I love NPs. But I worry if we made this the only source we get domain information from. Like DNJournal just posts a few lines here and then the link to Ron's complete story. Should any domain investor not go there. Domain Name Wire is probably the best single source of information, but if you only read snippets on NPs you are getting a very tiny bit of it. Elliot Silver publishes superb stuff every day but seldom mentioned here. Kevin Murphy at Domain Incite is something every domain investor should follow.

    We are fortunate that there are so many talented writers in our community and that they offer varying viewpoints. Some (not me) do that as their full time or part time job. We should, in my opinion, be willing to read at their sites, or the ones we find worthwhile, and not insist that everything written in domaining be done only in NPs.

    Let me emphasize I totally respect your right to have the view you do. I also don't take it personally, and presume Alvin does not either. I just hope that most readers in NPs will be willing to go to outside content for the longer stories. That not only helps us read the full details on stories, but keeps a healthy ecosystem of domain related content out there.

    Just my (obviously writer biased) view!

    Bob
     
  9. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician Gold Account VIP

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    yes I know ...
     
  10. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Hi

    within in all that you posted, nametalent was mentioned at least 4 times

    which kind of validates my position

    all those sites you mentioned i know about and can read the articles there at will, or converse with some of the news makers and bloggers on another board.

    i'm not insisting that you do anything.

    but maybe you assume that folks can't go to those sites on their own, without ever coming to NP
    or that if they don't come to NP, then they won't know what else is out there to read.

    there are times, that articles posted by bloggers have been conceived or were originated by a discussion that took place on another domain forum/board.
    yet no one can link to another forum or board that has that pertinent news/info about domaining or even mention one in private conversations

    so sometimes, what you're reading about, is second-hand news.

    imo...
     
  11. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    I apologize if that bothered you but I was simply writing from the perspective of a domain writer, and that is where I often post material.

    I can assure you that I know people can, and do, read at other sites independent of NPs. I guess to me NPs is such a central hub that I like to have mention here and links to interesting developments elsewhere, but I respect you feel differently.

    I might also stress that it is not that NPs merely allow a summary and link but insist on it. To copy an entire article from another site is infringement on copyright of that site. Wheras a snippet here and link to full article is exactly what Google does with News, for example.

    I agree with you that the rules about other forums means we sometimes get second hand coverage, and that is unfortunate.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  12. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    Relevant to the topic of this thread I did a little analysis and reported it in NPs about a year ago. Not sure if the greater international flavour of .org account for more hyphens than .com, possibly.
    Around the same time looked at .de and recall was about 17%.

    To answer the query at bottom of @Alvin Brown article re direct experience, I have only ever handled I think 4 hyphenated domains, and did sell one of them for $$$ within the last year.

    I see hyphens in local domains on vehicles not rarely in Western Canada. I think that Canada probably has more than US and less than Europe.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  13. Jurgen Wolf

    Jurgen Wolf Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Nowadays when so many TLDs - no any sense in those domains...
    Except .de where they are traditional even with 2 hyphens.
     
  14. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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  15. I can see online only keyword phrase campaigns working for more than one hyphen in a domain, but not for "here's my card", in person, in most cases.

    A double hyphen domain evaluation was completed a little bit ago that showed signs of its LCLCL niche trends rise and fall in less than 2 years. It's a different combination than the hyphens being covered here, but still interesting and relevent to the hyphen discussion in general.
    Source - VIP/Gold Only
     
  16. mAd MaX

    mAd MaX Established Member

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    Coca-Cola.com
    Go-Jek.com
    Saint-Gobin.com
    Schneider-Electric.com etc.
    Many company uses hyphenated domains. Those who doesn't also owns them like Go-Daddy.com etc.

    Now, my question is its said hyphenated domains are more SEO friendly, is that true?
     
  17. vravis9

    vravis9 Top Member VIP

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    Thanks @Alvin Brown those are some interesting data points... definitely useful.
     
  18. accent

    accent Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    A couple years ago Afternic sold four (+ quality) L-L-L. com domains for me within maybe 4 months. Price was about $3800 each.

    I suspect that L-L-L were temporarily placed as alternatives to LLL's in Godaddy search. I hope they will try that again. I have sold other L-L-L. coms, to a number of countries.

    L-L-L seems to go against the anti-hyphen trend. End user uptake is surprising. Try a group using the better letters and you will find lots of development.

    Every time someone refers to a L-L-L domain they speak the letters only. This may be the secret, they really are the closest thing to a LLL. com.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  19. biggie

    biggie Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    a 4 letter.com, or a L-L.com or a NLL.com or a LLN.com would be closer to a LLL.com, because they are shorter than a L-L-L.com.

    imo...
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  20. xynames

    xynames XYNames.com PRO VIP

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    Depends on the country. In Germany they will pay a lot for some hyphenated names but it’s not so easy for a non German speaker to understand which might work (something like how a non Chinese native would have a hard time figuring out which number domains are valuable). Also I think the Germans would be looking for hyphenated .de domains before a hyphenated dot com.

    In the U.S. almost no hyphenated domain is preferred over its non hyphenated counterpart. Off the top of my head I can think of perhaps one sci-fi.com (if that).
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  21. accent

    accent Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I think you would find that LLN or NLL are less popular by end users. Don't know about L-L, L--L are dead. But none of these are substitutes for LLL.com.

    A wide range of L-L-L.de are taken, possibly more than .com. L-L-L.co.uk is pretty common, too. There are not many domainers interested, I frequently find loose .com drops with 3, 4 or 5 country codes taken. Mostly European, but not just Germany. US and China are in play to some extent.
     
  22. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent Gold Account VIP Trusted Blogger

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    One name I wonder about is e-sports. Clearly in parts of the world it seems to be written with a hyphen more often than without, but not sure that is true in USA? While domain names with and without have sold for good amounts, I think without generally for more.
     
  23. Want2learn

    Want2learn Top Member VIP

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    I have A-t-l-a-n-t-a.com
     
  24. frank-germany

    frank-germany domainer since 2001 / musician Gold Account VIP

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    if its 2 words that can stand alone
    a hyphen is the normal way of typing in Germany

    if its 1 word that consists of 2 words that form a unity
    ( kindergarten )
    a hyphen is no good choice
    not even in Germany
    but still if its a high searched after term
    it may bring a few hundred or like 1500 euro

    a .com is less preferable in Germany
    for that business that focuses on the German market

    a hyphenated version of the kindergarten version
    would be no good domain even in Germany
    kinder-garten.com still is a not quite bad domain
    as it's not only targeting the German market

    so it has the same quality as other 2 term english .com
     

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