discuss Sold on Sedo for 300,000 EURO But Buyer Didn't Pay

[illumy]

I had a 300,000 EUR unpaid sale record on Sedo, which was cancelled 2 weeks ago on one of my premium .APP domains to US buyer, online Purchase and Sale Agreement seems like a joke on websites like GoDaddy or Sedo. Heard too many unpaid stories about how they failed to do anything concrete on unpaid buyers. Literally a waste of time and money in many occasion.

What do you guys think of this? Just move on?

 

[illumy]

For sedo auctions you need certification. (10k+ USD Premium Certification). so they have some barriers..

But offers outside of auctions are probably not binding.. and they are open for new accounts.

I heard it happened a lot on auction too, so pretty lame.

 

[Oblivious Fella]

A bad joke

What do you say it should be titled then? Sedo fake-sold lol?

 

[illumy]

For that type of money on an app extension I can understand the buyer getting cold feet.

This is what I see happening

Example: redhot.app

Buyer probably went this route: redhotapp.com (or similar)

Saved themselves 300,000 Euro

That's just me speculating but if someone was going to offer that much they are probably still looking for a similar name so it would not be too hard to track down new registrations.

Then if you have any luck with that contact them privately.

Haha good thought, but not likely as it's not an unpopular word or creative words, in fact it's the most popular word-for-registration during Nov 2018 by report.

 

[illumy]

Which reminds me...... if you have an absolute premium .app it might be wise to protect buy the .com if it is still available.

ie: nameapp.com

I did just that

PhotogrApp.com & Photogr.app

Unfortunately all of my premium .APP ones won't have ***app.com available.

 

[illumy]

For €300,000 (and this also depends on the resources you have available, and on the counterparty) you might want to talk to a lawyer to see if you can enforce the sale. I personally would.

If an officer of a company (i.e. the CEO) made this "purchase" then it will likely be legally enforceable. But you will have to sue in the US. Unless you're dealing with an empty shell company, or you think you're likely to find a new buyer at €300k, it could very well be worth it.

Don't let them off the hook.

Not sure if anybody actually been there and done this and wondering how it ended up, would be awesome if the domainer is a specialize attorney on this himself and can work through himself everytime when it happened ha.

 

[illumy]

Most of these platform inquiries go nowhere, hell most inquiries in general go nowhere.

I ignore all platform inquires until they make a second inquiry or they finally just eMail me directly.

You want to waste a few days w/ GoDaddy going back and forth with a "buyer" only to find that their budget is $200 USD - sod off.

You count the money when it's in your bank, you talk when it's worth speaking. This will save you a lot of time and frustration.

Couldnt agree more.

 

[illumy]

Yea already passed, like I said it happens, I'm just surprised how often this happened on these supposed-to-be well known marketplaces and how ridiculously they can't do anything about this and continue to let it ruin our user experience throughout all these years, can trace this kind of complains way back to more than 10 years ago and it just keep on happening non-stop. Yet they (Sedo & GoDaddy specifically) still survive and continue to be the leader of this industry, most people must really have good temper to be able to put up with this s*** over and over again from time to time.

Competitors too thin to do better than this?

 

[illumy]

I actually know an attorney who also is a domainer -- he's a good friend of mine. An agreement is legally binding in most jurisdictions if it is obvious that two parties have agreed to something.

If it was more than a price inquiry (i.e. an actual "sale" that was left unpaid), then in my view it's worth spending an extra $500 or $1,000 to see if it is enforceable. Not many people here seem to agree, though..

It's a cost of doing (any type of) business though, in my view. Just like you have an accountant, and occasionally need to consult a tax attorney.

It's an actual sales on Sedo except the buyer left unpaid, there's a Purchase and Sale Agreement generated on Sedo, not sure how binding it would seem in your friend's experience, and whether it's worth the time and $ to do any action. Curious and interesting to see how figures like this turns out to these irresponsible buyers if law is enforceable ha.

 

[illumy]

A Purchase and Sale Agreement should be enforceable (I don't need to talk to my friend to know that). But did they "sign" it, i.e. digitally?

Usually it's not worth it, but on a €300k sale I don't see why you wouldn't? Best case, you make 300k, worst case you don't (but that's where you're at now) and are out some expenses.

Agreements are generally enforceable in the western world. Thing is, most people don't bother because it's not worth the hassle -- especially internationally. It's a bit of a pain.

Yea pretty much, it's not signed digitally, but don't think that matters because you have to tick the "I agree" before you can accept or make an offer.

I will need to find an attorney in US to consult whether it's worth the hassle or not.

 

[illumy]

My understanding at Sedo is, that a there is a legally binding contract that you could enforce. Sedo give you access to the other parties contact info in a situation like this.

Now whether that contact info is correct or not is another matter. If they have any actual cash that is also a concern, but they could have.

So you could enforce your rights in this situation but that would entail hiring a lawyer, costs, time wasted etc. If it's $300,000 sale that is a great sale so it could be worth it. If it's a large corporation and you can verify it with them, you are in a strong position. You could possibly verify it yourself with a few eMails to avoid costs.

Escrow.com my understanding is terms are not binding so you would need a separate offer/acceptance via eMail but that could be sufficient.

Sooner or later someone will enforce their rights.

Well, the sneaky part about Sedo is that the transfer agent said he can not disclose any contact methods of the unpaid buyer other than their given address. He said if I want to know the info can only ask attorney to contact their legal team to request for it. So I think Sedo is pretty useless and should be blame for adding difficulties for any enforcement to be possibly executed, in short, they are not helping by any mean.

 

[xynames]

Unfortunately all of my premium .APP ones won't have ***app.com available.

I suppose that generally speaking all extensions have premium and not premium names but in general the .app extension is turning out to be pretty weak. Not in the toilet like some extensions but it’s unfortunately shaping up to be a contradiction in terms to use the word premium and dot app.

It is turning out to be good...for Google
https://www.thedomains.com/2018/05/...-app-in-just-early-access-fees-through-day-2/

not so much for domainers
https://onlinedomain.com/2018/05/14/domain-name-news/app-domains-are-for-dreamers/

 

[illumy]

I suppose that generally speaking all extensions have premium and not premium names but in general the .app extension is turning out to be pretty weak. Not in the toilet like some extensions but it’s unfortunately shaping up to be a contradiction in terms to use the word premium and dot app.

It is turning out to be good...for Google
https://www.thedomains.com/2018/05/...-app-in-just-early-access-fees-through-day-2/

not so much for domainers
https://onlinedomain.com/2018/05/14/domain-name-news/app-domains-are-for-dreamers/

I would have broader view and own judgement/info of seeing things than random some "expert" article saying *** domains are for dreamers, true some extensions are pretty weak, but not so much for .APP, since I'm in the pool, I know too many good sales of .APP not publicly listed but were done in our circle of domainers. So yea, like whatever you like, our latest Dapp used .APP for our renew brand as well, not to mention Tron's new site for Dapps at Tron.app. Enough said.

 

[illumy]

I would try to figure out who the buyer was. If it's a sizeable company, go after them. If not, just keep it.

It's not a given you'll ever find someone again willing to pay €300k.

It's an individual, who knows, but apparently it's a very popular domain and acquired by many TOKEN named firms, will keep it until someone deserves it pop up, in fact, some are still negotiating at this moment.

 

[illumy]

Forget the moneyyy
You have the domainnn

Means, you now have the possibillity to sell it for moreee

Right.

 

[UncleBrand]

it is not really the platform
people change their minds all the time

i had a sale in Sedo that took 6 weeks to close, i was pretty sure it won't close at all
in this case, it was a broker facilitating a sale for a small business,
the back and forth was ultra slow, and finally we closed when they asked for an invoice 5 weeks after going off the radar

 

[illumy]

it is not really the platform
people change their minds all the time

i had a sale in Sedo that took 6 weeks to close, i was pretty sure it won't close at all
in this case, it was a broker facilitating a sale for a small business,
the back and forth was ultra slow, and finally we closed when they asked for an invoice 5 weeks after going off the radar

I'm just amazed how people can still put up with these platforms with these "worst" user experiences possibly. Platforms either do something to discourage "unpaid" scene from happening or do "nothing" to encourage these numbers, apparently Sedo is encouraging these by doing nothing or close to nothing.

 

[illumy]

did u get anywhere with this as had many sales on sedo with no payers just move on...

Some people actually suggested me to go for legal act since the amount is probably worth for going on court and front fee...etc. My problem is that I'm not located in US, so it's gonna be a hassle, which is another reason why I‘m sick of these leading platforms stood and did nothing useful all these years.

 

[illumy]

He did find a person willing to (digitally) sign an agreement to hand over €300k for a domain name. Regardless of what people are saying, and even if they have changed their mind, these ARE enforceable. The only question is: do you want to enforce it?

Domains aside, for €300k (could be related to anything) I would, but looks like I'm in the minority here. I wouldn't let a person off the hook for free (i.e. seller and buyer could settle for 10% of the purchase price to cancel the purchase). To each their own approach.

Even if it's a nice domain, you currently have zero guarantees that anyone will ever offer that much again. Or even half that amount. I would have a different opinion if we were talking $2 or 20k, but I think this amount warrants enforcement of the agreement.

Since seller said he was dealing with an individual, that could be interesting. They would be personally liable.

Yea that's very tempting since I don't think anyone shall be off the hook for free without consequences so easily. Say if Sedo is actually a responsible platform and enforce/leading to pursue for legal action (above certain amount) everytime this happened. I doubt there will still be this many unpaid cases from happening and majority of people in the domain industry don't give a d*** and willing to move on simply encourage them to do nothing useful, hah, hell they won't even give you the buyer's email or contact number without being asked by an attorney.

 

[illumy]

300k for an .APP domain, this seems not realistic at all!

Move on!

More has been sold already for .APP domains. Too bad you are not in the circle.

 

[illumy]

Sedo has always been a shotgun business. Try and throw as much in the wind as they can and live off the few that hit a target.

They blew a 100k deal for NYCTV.com basically the same way. Just let him pass on by.
To their credit they try with their tos and such, but really they can do nothing to make a completion except demand their vig on the sale. They will give a name and address so YOU can continue with the headache and they sit back waiting for more idiots to pass them sales.

I had another one they blew for OnlineTV.com in the mid six figures but they handed me a contract which was some kind of boiler plate gumba. I went over it with my lawyer and we could not sign unless one line was removed. The line merely said I hand over all copyrights in and of OnlineTV.com. This was not for a website, just domain name. Also I have over 6000 concerts I own under original contract to OnlineTV, so I am not selling those copyrights. The error of their boiler plate was trying to make one shoe fit everyone. The only place where just the sale of a domain was at the beginning with a check box for that or website and domain. So their contract was very expansive including website. That would entail the copyrights to that, working patents if any, logos, etc. Which would also be included in the sale if it was a website sale. This has nothing to do in a contract for a domain and the confusion in what copyrights are being turned over made us remove that one sentence in a 4 page contract.

So while they say here is a contract, look it over, they do not mean you can change anything AND when you ask to talk to their legal department, THEY HAVE NONE! They had some dumb shm*Ck write one, long ago, and that's that.

Which is another reason they dont go after the fraud of sales that are not completed.

I was in talk with a Sedo agent the other day, wonder how he sees this in his role, thanks for the input.

 

[xynames]

Unfortunately, not one of the sales you claim is verified. But we do know of many offers for .app that did not close, including the one you wrote about in this thread.

For example:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/here-we-go-again-gay-app-sold.1083100/

I think he's saying the sale didn't happen. Posting fake sales is the most common way to try pump up an extension, it happens all the time with new extensions, I remember the $1.6 million sale of Horse.ae when .ae names became available to anyone.

Anyway it’s just common sense. The dot app domains aren’t being used for much of anything. Even that gay.app is just a redirect. You want us to believe that a company paid that kind of money for a mere redirect of a little used extension? If the .app people are going to fabricate sales prices at least have the stories make sense.

It’s like - real estate - dot app is not Beverly Hills. It’s not Knightsbridge. It’s not La Jolla. Until the value of corroborated closed sales justify its valuation dot app is going to remain lower middle class property.

Your argument is that if I try to sell my house in the middle of the Mojave Desert for thirteen million and keep talking about how great it is to live in the hot desolate desert that eventually it will sell for my asking price. Valuations just don’t work that way.

A little used extension like dot app with extremely low volume, mostly low dollar closed sales, is going to remain light blue colored Monopoly property until verified sales say otherwise. I can’t even think of a a functioning dot app website that is big yet.

No offense - just reality.

 

[illumy]

Unfortunately, not one of the sales you claim is verified. But we do know of many offers for .app that did not close, including the one you wrote about in this thread.

For example:
https://www.namepros.com/threads/here-we-go-again-gay-app-sold.1083100/


Anyway it’s just common sense. The dot app domains aren’t being used for much of anything. Even that gay.app is just a redirect. You want us to believe that a company paid that kind of money for a mere redirect of a little used extension? If the .app people are going to fabricate sales prices at least have the stories make sense.

It’s like - real estate - dot app is not Beverly Hills. It’s not Knightsbridge. It’s not La Jolla. Until the value of corroborated closed sales justify its valuation dot app is going to remain lower middle class property.

Your argument is that if I try to sell my house in the middle of the Mojave Desert for thirteen million and keep talking about how great it is to live in the hot desolate desert that eventually it will sell for my asking price. Valuations just don’t work that way.

A little used extension like dot app with extremely low volume, mostly low dollar closed sales, is going to remain light blue colored Monopoly property until verified sales say otherwise. I can’t even think of a a functioning dot app website that is big yet.

No offense - just reality.

I don't fully agree with your metaphor comparing domain extension to regions of property, because districts are obvious where domain extensions are not. You can live in your household thinking the world is only as big as your house and neighborhood can reach. You can believe whoever's random post and take Namebio and what else being verified or not as evidence to the existence of sales, like I said it doesn't matter, believe what you believe, doesn't matter to us. I can throw more than a dozen decent .APP sites at your face but then I thought hell why bother, you either do your homework yourself why should I? You're not prospect investor nor user of the extension and probably will never be, I already said too much. Yes you know everything, everything not recognized by you or Namebio or whatever does not exist, if that makes you happy.

By the way the seller of gay.app is a personal friend of mine in Guangzhou and we've met in Shenzhen, he's also a very well known domainer in the Chinese market, too bad he does not exist nor the deal of gay.app according to your believe because it's not verified by you nor Namebio, rofl, like seriously ask anybody in the Chinese market and see if they know what Namebio is. You are in a small circle thinking that's all to a circle. I don't. I'm in the circle but I don't think that's all to it.

 

[xynames]

The reality ... is that after being listed for two days a two letter dot app can’t even get a $100 bid
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ot-app.1121352/
which is further evidence of how the extension is struggling.

 

[illumy]

The reality ... is that after being listed for two days a two letter dot app can’t even get a $100 bid
https://www.namepros.com/threads/ot-app.1121352/
which is further evidence of how the extension is struggling.

rofl, why don't you mind your own business than caring about some extension you desperately want to insult with? Mind your own business while we are happily selling in "our own" circle. Childish much huh?

 

[xynames]

You are posting what others here consider to be deliberate misinformation:

I think he's saying the sale didn't happen. Posting fake sales is the most common way to try pump up an extension, it happens all the time with new extensions, I remember the $1.6 million sale of Horse.ae when .ae names became available to anyone.

so...you keep posting claimed sales without any backup, we keep posting proof that your claims are gainsaid by real evidence.

Who knows...maybe the 300K offer was from one of your "inner circle" and this entire thread is just a pump. Stranger things have happened.

At this point there is no verifiable evidence that dot app domains are selling for much of anything, would you agree?