discuss [Resolved] Domainer Loses $26k On A Stolen Domain!

[DaveX]

Darn! Another scam and this time it is an experienced domainer James Booth.

James must have thought he was making a sound acquisition as he transferred approximately 26k to escrow for CQD.com. Instead, after completing the escrow, the domain was taken from his account by the registrar without notification and returned to the "true" owner.

Turns out the person that sold him the domain CQD.com, may not have been the true owner.

Apparently this incident involves several parties including the registrar and the escrow.


Thanks to Theo over at DomainGang for the tip on this.

 

[offthehandle]

Some will insure you, but will put a clause if you live in a designated flood plain. b

. Dont want to derail this but, it was a foodplain area. They paid like an extra $1000. For 5 years, then huge amount of rainfall, cracks in foundation and water was cornered to only exit inside house, no french drains where located.

Domain theft policy could be lucrative, but such a small market would probably make no sense.

 

[DNWon]

Are you aware there are (3) ripoff reports now?

I didnt see the first one:

What is he? the Great and Powerful Oz of Domains? He, who in the swipe of a hand sends domains off to a "buyer"? Tom Lam prove to me that I was the one who sold my domain! You can't because I didn't have any part of it. My domain was hijacked. It was stolen! Show me where my IP address to my computer is connected to the email coorespondence between the buyer and the "seller". Show me!


https://www.ripoffreport.com/report...bcom-company-tom-lam-director-abuse-a-1433373

This is exactly what I'm talking about with Rebecca losing focus and adding things to her complaints that have little to do with reality. In this report, and many other thread entries, she keeps using the terms that she did not put "blue ink pen to paper" as if unsigned online contracts have no legal bearing or that this couldn't possibly be a legal transaction because she only signs contracts with blue ink pen. Online transactions are completed everyday with no more than a click of mouse and a check in a box, so to keep repeating this line is extremely unhelpful to her case and makes her look a little out of touch with reality! You have to sift through a lot of noise to get to her facts!

 

[DaveX]

I have said that Rebecca needs help with this. Noone will want to help if she keeps attacking people.

As much as I want to believe that domain names are property and that I buy and sell property, I feel that domains are really registrations I control as long as I pay the renewals. I simply sell the control of the use of the domain name. Im okay with that.

Registrars should play a big role in making sure their clients domain registrations are safe. They should ensure the identity of their clients from the start. They should use secret questions. They should require opt out of tfa. They should require ID upload.

If we hold experienced domainers to a higher standard, we should hold registrars to the highest standard. The relationship between registrar and registrant should be supportive and not adversarial.

IMHO

 

[wwwweb]

This is exactly what I'm talking about with Rebecca losing focus and adding things to her complaints that have little to do with reality. In this report, and many other thread entries, she keeps using the terms that she did not put "blue ink pen to paper" as if unsigned online contracts have no legal bearing or that this couldn't possibly be a legal transaction because she only signs contracts with blue ink pen. Online transactions are completed everyday with no more than a click of mouse and a check in a box, so to keep repeating this line is extremely unhelpful to her case and makes her look a little out of touch with reality! You have to sift through a lot of noise to get to her facts!

I think she is old school when it comes to this kind of stuff, I mean first time I used docusign, which some people here have also used, others have probably not, I was pretty amazed also. Blue ink to paper, is a real paper document, with a witnessed signature, it’s the hard copy way of doing things, and some people don’t trust the internet, because they don’t know whose on the other side, much like this transaction. Where if it was notarized maybe a fail safe would have prevented this; but we are moving more towards smart contracts, and paperless transactions. If her signature, and id could be verified on the Blockchain, and what not maybe it would be a different scenario today, but we are a few years out from that.

 

[MasterOfMyDomains]

Rebecca attacked once. Thats what she does when she feels betrayed, she files a ripoff report. I saw the others she made.
You continually make it sound like her fault because of an aggressive move this woman made.
RR big deal really, i havent even gone to see it.
Everyone is being open except one of the victims.

 

[wwwweb]

Rebecca attacked once. Thats what she does when she feels betrayed, she files a ripoff report. I saw the others she made.
You continually make it sound like her fault because of an aggressive move this woman made.
RR big deal really, i havent even gone to see it.
Everyone is being open except one of the victims.

How many of us would go on the offensive after discovering someone made off with one of our domains, after a falsified contract was completed with escrow, especially if we were banking on it to pad our retirement.

People get unhinged when their credit card company charges them a late fee, this person valued this as a 6 figure asset, so she kind of went into the scared raccoon in a corner mode. Is it right, most likely not, is it a human feature, most likely so.

We got to put ourselves in her shoes, your register pulls the domain out of your account, they won’t give you any support, escrow says your cashing checks in California, albeit trying to manage work, and a household, it’s only human to go online, and just vent.

 

[DaveX]

How many of us would go on the offensive after discovering someone made off with one of our domains, after a falsified contract was completed with escrow, especially if we were banking on it to pad our retirement.

People get unhinged when their credit card company charges them a late fee, this person valued this as a 6 figure asset, so she kind of went into the scared raccoon in a corner mode. Is it right, most likely not, is it a human feature, most likely so.

We got to put ourselves in her shoes, your register pulls the domain out of your account, they won’t give you any support, escrow says your cashing checks in California, albeit trying to manage work, and a household, it’s only human to go online, and just vent.

Everyone reacts differently. Thats human nature. Her actions affect her, not us.

I just know that those things are probably giving the thief a real laugh.

I have to believe that Netsol received strong evidence in order to move the name to James. They dont know Rebecca or her attorneys, or her financial position. I dont think they just got a call and gave it to him. They probably have a lot more proof.

I know Rebecca would say, But they dont have my signature, IP, or voice, but hey dont usually get a signature, they dont check voices, and you can manage a domain from any ip address.

 

[DaveX]

I know she just wants her name back, but its just not that simple unfortunately. She will do much better when she accepts the reality that this is a legal issue now. No amount of posting on websites is going to bring it back.

 

[DNWon]

I have to believe that Netsol received strong evidence in order to move the name to James. They dont know Rebecca or her attorneys, or her financial position. I dont think they just got a call and gave it to him. They probably have a lot more proof.

I think their only "strong" evidence is James sent them the Escrow.com transaction receipt, the name was moved from Rebecca's account to James account by the thief. I believe Rebecca hasn't provided them any evidence to the contrary that her account was hacked, so from Netsol's perspective, deal completed! This isn't really about Netsol, not doing their job, although I'm sure there is plenty of evidence suggesting the account most likely has been tampered with (ie: changed email addresses, phone numbers, ip log in sites etc.) just prior to the theft. This is about Escrow.com not doing theirs, or doing it very poorly at the least! They paid a thief with what I bet was very suspect identification documentation! Follow the money!

 

[wwwweb]

I think their only "strong" evidence is James sent them the Escrow.com transaction receipt, the name was moved from Rebecca's account to James account by the thief. I believe Rebecca hasn't provided them any evidence to the contrary that her account was hacked, so from Netsol's perspective, deal completed! This isn't really about Netsol, not doing their job, although I'm sure there is plenty of evidence suggesting the account most likely has been tampered with (ie: changed email addresses, phone numbers, ip log in sites etc.) just prior to the theft. This is about Escrow.com not doing theirs, or doing it very poorly at the least! They paid a thief with what I bet was very suspect identification documentation! Follow the money!

Well stated, I mean it looks like J Booth is using attorney Z M, who is well regarded in the industry for many of his extra efforts to protect the industry from reverse udrps etc...

If she hires attorneys that have little knowledge of the domain industry, they are easily going to run her up $50k, in dealing with web, escrow, James, person x, etc...

She needs to be smart use the media, use crowd funding, use her local news, I mean if she is in real estate, side business of graphics design, runs equestrian camps for kids, she needs to use this base, and get viral traction.

I think even James attorney if still Z M would put pressure on him to settle, as he would not want to be seen as the losing attorney on this case of a stolen domain from a working woman who is known throughout her community circles if it went viral. It would put pressure on web.com, who is a stone wall when it comes to support of any kind in such cases also. Maybe escrow also, as it is a black eye on their services, she shouldn’t waste her time here to be honest. She needs to tell her story, as true it is to her, without any implied attacks, but more from the side of a victim, in the sense it could happen to anyone of us.

The lawyers are going to eat this one up, just to many parties involved, $25k for a case like this is nothing.

 

[carob]

There are a couple of points that would be worth looking at objectively here, to have more information.

There are already many stories on NP of Netsol taking domains out of accounts without even notifying the account holder. This seems to happen when the previous owner requests it.

What info does a previous domain owner have to provide to Netsol to get them to move a domain back to the previous owner?

And in this case, having moved the domain back to the account of the previous owner, Netsol then reversed that and moved the domain back to the new owner.

What information would a new owner have to provide to Netsol to get back a domain Netsol had moved back to the previous owner's account?

A lot hinges on what steps are needed to push a domain at Netsol. Bear in mind, now changing the registrant of a .com domain requires consent from the existing registrant's email address, but that is not the same as pushing from one account to another - a separate process.

The info that Netsol can see that we cannot would be what exactly? Login times and IP addresses, and any changes to account holder info. Registrant info change we can see in WHOIS records.

Edit: Netsol can also see payment details of who paid to renew a domain.

 

[tonyk2000]

If she hires attorneys that have little knowledge of the domain industry, they are easily going to run her up $50k

As the last resort (NOT recommended though) she might hire some paralegal who will prepare the papers following recommendations from this thread, such as incuding precedent data posted by mr. Berryhill (the case discussed was somewhat similar).
In any case, hiring a lawyer who may not understand the difference between registrar and registrant, domain and website - but will still charge $50K - is something that should be avoided.

 

[tonyk2000]

As a side note, since mr. Booth knowingly elected to keep (allegedly) stolen property, he should not be surprised to find out that his potential customers will soon be considering any and all other domains he offers as potentially stolen or otherwise questionable. Such an outcome is possible. Reputation is everything in this industry...

 

[offthehandle]

Where is Rebecca? @spoiltrider

 

[offthehandle]

She needs to be smart use the media, use crowd funding, use her local news, I mean if she is in real estate, side business of graphics design, runs equestrian camps for kids, she needs to use this base, and get viral traction.

Glad you also posted that move. I mentioned that earlier and looked up and posted various links she should contact, but she didn’t respond yet. The court of public opinion could get pretty bad, especially if this isn’t settled. Various parties involved could get some unwanted publicity.

 

[Grilled]

Where is Rebecca? @spoiltrider

She's busy working on figuring out how this all happened, and taking steps to get her domain back.

Better question, Where is @BoothDomains ?

 

[offthehandle]

She's busy working on figuring out how this all happened, and taking steps to get her domain back.

Better question, Where is @BoothDomains ?

I am glad that she is gathering her evidence up. Even at that though, this does not appear to be a simple transfer and earlier legal points made, the current registrant has most likely been advised by counsel to remain silent and hold out. This is might be looking like a legal manuevering game. Even if it is transfered back, she still may have to deal with this legally, very unfortunately.

 

[wwwweb]

I am glad that she is gathering her evidence up. Even at that though, this does not appear to be a simple transfer and earlier legal points made, the current registrant has most likely been advised by counsel to remain silent and hold out. This is might be looking like a legal manuevering game. Even if it is transfered back, she still may have to deal with this legally, very unfortunately.

It has to go legal if network solutions is not cooperating, as the defence of what evidence James Booth’s attorney attached to network solutions to compel the transfer of the domain from her account to his.

I would think going after network solutions for the unauthorized transfer might be her best point of attack from a first offensive, given they both reside in the same state. Talk is cheap, but legal action is real, and when their lawyers involved, they are going to take notice.

Right now she is just an angry customer they can put on mute, they don’t have to answer anything if they don’t want to. She has to force their hands now. If network solutions never handed the domain back, this thread would never even exist.

 

[carob]

Another point about Netsol moving domains from one account to another themselves: do they in this case also change the registrant? Under what circumstances are they allowed to do that?

Because if you move a domain from one account another without changing the registrant, the person who now has it in their account can't change the registrant to be themself without getting consent from the email of the registrant who is already in the WHOIS.

 

[wwwweb]

As a side note, since mr. Booth knowingly elected to keep (allegedly) stolen property, he should not be surprised to find out that his potential customers will soon be considering any and all other domains he offers as potentially stolen or otherwise questionable. Such an outcome is possible. Reputation is everything in this industry...

Your right in the event it does go legal, and Rebecca is victorious, that verdict is going to hang over Mr.Booth, as people tend to simply look at the outcome, not tr events that got them there in the end.