NameSilo

Pull up your sleeves, you new G's

Labeled as discuss in gTLD Discussion started by HotKey, Mar 8, 2019.

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  1. HotKey

    HotKey Made in Canada VIP

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    New Gtlds are gaining momentum with investors and endusers, despite the enormous and daunting releases of so many TLDs. They are obviously a better choice of string usage. They face an incredible challenge though, a real uphill battle, to a well established, trusted, and fiercely protected legacy market.

    **

    There is a healthy mix of outlook on the thread. Lots of passion, for or against, not a lot of middle ground. Make an informed decision, know what your getting into, when getting into unknowns, is all I can say.

    I can appreciate for some they will changing the channel on a new G commercial, personally I'm going to stay tuned.

    Looking forward to gaining new insight on a short or long term marketing strategy from any of the new G registries on solutions on bringing it to the mainstream, if ever. Is it just us pulling up our sleeves, or are they going to dig in and get G'iggy with it too?
     
    The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
  2. BrandableDomain

    BrandableDomain Established Member

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    @JB Lions

    “This year, the year we're actually in, the numbers are going down. They may go up again, but right now down.”

    This is the very important paradox I tried to explain in the “Proof” comment :woot:

    What the numbers and charts reveal is that yes, on the surface, “the numbers are going down.”

    But it is an illusion, the numbers and charts indicate this.

    What is happening is that the underlying base of genuine, meaningful fully priced new gTLD domains have on average been growing consistently for five years. Including this year. And every year.

    Then why: “the numbers are going down”?

    Because the inflated, pumped up 99 cent worthless new gTLD domains are being dropped at a faster rate than the genuine ones are growing!

    Dot XYZ lost 4.5M domains presumably mostly junk - but all the while meaningful alternatives were still growing, but at a slower pace. Their growth has been concealed which creates a false picture.

    So to use two actual examples from today, dot SITE grew at a fast clip of 1,124 net gains, but dot LOAN had a net loss of minus 5,999.

    So looking at just these two strings, someone can say the numbers have gone down by 4,875. But that is essentially meaningless or deceptive, because the dot SITEs are probably good genuine names while the dot LOANs are probably mostly junk.

    “I haven't kept up with the news but is there still going to be a Round 2? Another wave of new gtlds? If so, even more alternatives. Tell me why that will help the price of these current ones.”

    Last I heard there will be a Round Two maybe in a couple of years. Apart from increasing awareness, I expect them to put downward pressure to varying degrees on all their competitors, whether other new gTLDs or dot com to a much lesser extent. Simple law of supply and demand.

    A recent CENTR report stated that dot INFO numbers declined by 17 percent. Surely that would have to be the impact of the new gTLD program.

    My personal opinion is that high value dot COMs won’t be affected, but the lower in value they are, the more they are likely to be affected. And it won't be evenly spread or predictable.
     
  3. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Providing misinformation by those who are against New gTLDs is as bad as cheerleading them on based on the personal interest of a few domainers here. The naysayers are making themselves look like that they are so concerned about people not wasting their money, but if their efforts are just based on their agenda to protect their own investments then perhaps they are doing everyone a disservice by trying to convince others that New gTLDs are a waste of money even when it comes to those domains that most likely are going to be considered to be a good choice by unbiased observers. IMO

    Some New gTLDs are picking up traction, and you can see this for yourself by doing a search for Site:.forsale at google which will show you the many realtors and other end-users who are using this extension (you can do the same search for other New gTLDs too to see their active websites).
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  4. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I don't see any names like HomeMortgage.loan being dropped, just a bunch of names that should not have been registered in the first place.

    PS: I am using one of my own domains as an example because I don't like to mention other people's domains.
     
  5. Kate

    Kate Domainosaurus Rex VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I can find any TLD using site:*.tld in google, .tk has got many more results. You get the point.
    I've never used a site using a .forsale.
    URLs must be advertised to make a lasting impression on people. That is, in magazines, billboards, national TV, trade shows, business cards etc. Otherwise, people don't notice them.

    With 20M+ registrations, it is surprising that we see so few nTLDs in the wild.
    The only logical explanation is that a lot are not used, and the rest are used for lowkey projects with minimal real life exposure.
    For example, domainers use nTLDs to advertise their nTLD portfolios, but they seldom use them for their real life business. Because: a) they already have a domain, b) they don't really believe in them, deep inside they fell they would put themselves at a competitive disadvantage.

    In my dictionary, gaining traction means prominent websites and increased mindshare among the public. That is, they should become markedly more visible than they are.
     
  6. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent VIP

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    I agree with this from @Kate. I do see tiny progress both in the numbers and in my personal real world experience but it is a huge gulf to cross. A couple of years ago I looked at the rate off .com tiny drop in real world use and ngTLD gain and where they were at and if current trends continued I forget the exact number but it was like 200 or 300 years until they would be equal.

    So what needs to be done?
    • Registries need to be much smarter with introductions.
    • ICANN needs to stop introducing new extensions until existing ones get more traction, and they must stop entirely stupid (.sucks this is looking at you) and repetitive domain names (singular/plural etc.) without justification.
    • Those in the branding/marketing business in (my very limited) experience simply do not know about new extensions or have serious misinformation about them. This needs to change as they influence or make adoption decisions.
    • We need a professional brandable marketplace that specializes or offers new extensions to startups.
    • We need to do a better job at getting ngTLDs into the hands of non-profit organizations.
    • We need to stress the applications where new extensions excel over legacy ones (like domain name phrases and exact matches to a company name, like Stupendous Space using Stupendous.space - a made up example).
    • We need to promote them not as an alternative or low cost option, but rather as a fresh way to express your digital address, while being honest about the limitations of not using a country code or .com.
    • We need advertising, and I am not an expert to say what kind would most work.
    • We need to get the young using them. If they do, eventually the market will grow. Domains in general need to earn a place in business schools at colleges and universities.
    • We need to have less volatility in registrations and lack of renewals. More should have 5 yr promotions for example.
    • We need a few spokespeople who will make a difference outside the domain community.
    • We need some luck.
    Bob
     
  7. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent VIP

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    That is probably true for lots of extensions, I agree, but there are, at least in Canada, many real estate companies using .forsale, not as a redirect but real use. Here is one for example: https://www.kawartharealestate.forsale
     
  8. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Wow, that is a terrible looking domain. I doubt many average people would even recognize that as a domain on advertising.

    Then their email at the top is an @remax-kawartha.ca, and on their ads they have an @gmail email.

    That is some brand confusion.

    Brad
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  9. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent VIP

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    Hi Brad,

    I was not saying it was a beautiful domain (BTW Kawartha is a popular vacation region in Canada with a name derived from our first nations people), just that I have noticed them in real world in Canada in real estate. I actually don't like the two word 'forsale' as a TLD and hold 0, just pointing out that in certain niches you do see them in real world use.

    I think the .ca email are the standards that ReMax use for all agent official email addresses (I don't know if they are big around the world but in Canada one of the biggest real estate networks). I had not noticed the gmail so agree that seems strange.

    Is there brand confusion? Possibly I don't want to argue that as that was not the point anyway and I have things to do right now. I will confess that I personally do the same. I use a .ca email address mainly even for other websites. For two reasons, convenience have been using it for more than a decade and Canadians trust .ca email more than anything else, even .com or .org. Unless you are sending email to info (at) BigCompany(.)com (apologies if a company is called BigCompany just a made up example) really no one guesses an email in my experience, but I see I am arguing your point which i did not mean to.

    Thanks for reflections.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  10. ecalc

    ecalc Top Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    Interesting, please tell us more about how dot site names grow and avoid the stigma of being “inflated pumped up worthless” while selling for 99 cents at godaddy, thanks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  11. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    Yes, I notice you guys doing that. It's like I'm reading an alternate universe. Numbers are going down but you guys post they're gaining momentum, then making excuses. Well the good ones are growing. I think your last post was directed in me, but you didn't realize you were talking about new gtld fans. You tried the new innovation/tech line again, with your gas tank example. Truly ridiculous. I literally went thru that all last post. I don't have side ventures making money on these, .com doesn't need help etc.

    I want to see traction in new gtld sales. Post them up. If you want to leave details out, post how many you've sold this year, amounts etc. Way too much fluff.

    https://www.namepros.com/threads/report-completed-domain-name-sales-here.83628/page-695

    3 posted this month. 2 xyz, 1 kitchen

    what ecalc just posted as well:

    https://www.godaddy.com/tlds/site-domain

    You still have a lot of these discounted like crazy, .99 cents. Overall reg numbers, still going down. That's even counting the new .dev domains - https://namestat.org/s/newgtld-summary
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  12. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    Actually, that hasn't been talked about much - https://namestat.org/

    Look at the top ones:
    .top, 0.99 cents Dynadot - https://namestat.org/top
    .xyz, 0.99 cents Dynadot - https://namestat.org/xyz

    just at Dynadot alone, .shop $2.99, .best $1.99, .world $1.85

    Godaddy
    .online - $1.99
    .club - $0.99 cents
    .world - $1.99
    etc.

    For $100 I can go pick up a mix of 100 .club, .top, .xyz names.

    There's your numbers. It's like they're dollar bin domains.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  13. bmugford

    bmugford www.DataCube.com PRO ICA Member VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    I have seen comments from people with .CLUB in the past attacking the business models of registries like .XYZ for their deeply discounted registrations.

    Now they have gone down the same path. I guess when you have limited demand, you have limited options.

    What do a bunch of cheap registrations add to a registry? Not much.
    All it does is inflate registration numbers so there are more to drop later.

    Brad
     
  14. Bob Hawkes

    Bob Hawkes formerly MetBob NameTalent VIP

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    Just to confirm, I checked all the sales, and if you restrict to March 1 to the current @JB Lions is absolutely right. In case anyone wants the full breakdown here it is:
    • com 43
    • co 8
    • in 8 (note the user group auction reported during this period, all were in that post)
    • org 7
    • net 4
    • xyz 2
    • uk 1
    • eu 1
    • co.uk 1
    • kitchen 1
    Of course a small self-reported data set from just under two week period is pretty limited. If you look at ngTLD vs com relative to registration numbers there is about a 1/6 ratio whereas in sales it is about 1/14 ratio. This is consistent within the tiny number statistical uncertainty that new extensions today sell at a rate (when registry excluded) of something like 1/3 or 1/4 the rate that .com sell at (they actually are more close to 1/2 in this set but it is just a handful of sales so not inconsistent with the broader picture).

    But I think we are getting away from the thread topic, which is about what can be done to make the market better for ngTLD.

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  15. oldtimer

    oldtimer Do some good for humanity and the environment VIP ★★★★★★★★★★

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    As far as I can see no one on this thread is claiming that the New gTLDs are the Ultimate choice, all that is being said is that they are a Viable choice for those who can’t find or afford a good .com domain name.

    The lack of reported sales is only a domainer metric from the investment point of view and can’t be used as a gauge for any traction of the New gTLDs in the real World, as shown by searching for Site:.forsale you can see that even though there are not that many big websites being advertised on billboards, but people are using New gTLDs for their actual websites and you can not discount all the small businesses that are using for example .forsale as irrelevant or unimportant.

    My final word on this matter is that to say that New gTLDs are not good as a whole is not a balanced point of view and to advice others to completely stay away from New gTLDs and to consider even the good domains that some people have managed to acquire as waste of money is a disservice to others. In my opinion it's best to keep a small and diversified portfolio of good domains that includes a few (not hundreds) of New gTLDs that have perfect keyword/extension correlation and that have very low renewal charges, that way If the New gTLDs become mainstream in the future then you are still in the game and if not then you will have all the good .coms and other popular extensions in you portfolio to be proud of.

    IMO
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  16. johnnie018

    johnnie018 Restricted

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    There is nearly no usage and .dev stats will soon fizzle out.

    10,000 per day -->5,000 per day -->2,000 per day --> 500 per day -->100 per day --> 25 per day

    That is how it goes over a few years.

    Have a look at .app daily registrations, it is a long slow graph down, and deletes haven't even started yet.

    ntldstats.com/tld/app
     
  17. johnnie018

    johnnie018 Restricted

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    I think that is solely due to China approval in the last year, in the previous year .site declined 40%

    ntldstats.com/tld/site

    Very little real usage of a tld like that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  18. johnnie018

    johnnie018 Restricted

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    Nothing can be done Bob, domainers have zero control over it.

    This is important because people will get nowhere if there think coming onto Namepros thinking up what the registry should do will have an effect.

    They just need to choose the right domains from that outset or otherwise adjust their course as they go.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  19. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    Didn’t you hear? .cow, .pig, .hamster, .snake, .democrat, .republican, .fakenews, .realnews, .donkey, .extreme, .super, .exgirlfriendnudephotos, .gender, .only, .christmas, .halloween, .tourist, .garden, .toolshed, .shovel, .pick, .disposable.

    I plan to pick up fat.cow, my.hamster, fox.fakenews, cnn.realnews, ski.extreme, flower.garden, toys.christmas, mask.halloween, funpark.tourist, dotcom.disposible. Whadda ya think? If I get lucky on the first day I can get a high value single letter like ——-> a.shovel <———- then advertise it daily as a single letter with twice daily thread bumps for months on end at a cool $Million dollars.
     
  20. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    Funny thing is, some of those are out already:

    .christmas - 1,620 regs - https://ntldstats.com/tld/christmas

    .republican - 889 regs, $23.99 at GoDaddy - https://www.godaddy.com/tlds/republican-domain

    .democrat - 1,092 - https://ntldstats.com/tld/democrat

    .garden - 2,266 regs - https://ntldstats.com/tld/garden

    no donkey but we have a horse of course, 2,468 - https://ntldstats.com/tld/horse

    https://ntldstats.com/tld

    Somebody should make a blog post on some of these that are out that have low regs, it's kind of fun going thru them.

    .bot - 1,575 Amazon Registry. I was told Amazon was powerful - https://ntldstats.com/tld/bot

    This one just lost 25% of regs in last month or so.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  21. henrypcyeung

    henrypcyeung Established Member

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    Except .bot, the other extensions mentioned in your post are too niche and do not have commercial value, so it is reasonable that they fail.

    As for .bot, do you know there are restrictions to register a .bot domain? It is an extension for actual use (i.e. already have a well developed bot before domain registration) instead of investment. Below is the direct quote from Amazon's website:
    "Currently, anyone who owns, operates or manages bots published using a supported tool (Amazon Lex, Botkit Studio, Dialogflow, Gupshup, Microsoft Bot Framework, and Pandorabots) can validate a bot and register a .BOT domain name." (https://www.amazonregistry.com/bot/)

    As it is free to register/renew/transfer .bot domains, I can't see any reasons to drop them. I think the decline in registrations may be due to violation of the restrictions or failure of owners' businesses.
     
  22. JB Lions

    JB Lions Top Member VIP

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    That wasn't the point of my post. More that there are so many out, even ones you don't think are out yet, actually are. And there are all kinds of commercial angles to Christmas and Garden.
     
  23. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    Well, that’s even worse that they actually exist with such low numbers. Halloween is big $$, somebody grabbed on the drop HalloweenShopper dot com the other day. .amazon is in legal tangles I read, no idea why they want it, and that a there is even a fight over that in the first place. I guess they have money to burn.

    The .best regging I looked at it yesterday and has some surprising non premium short names available. I posted Pete.best and it was scooped by somebody right away, but they forgot Peter.best. Dick.best is regged though. Time.best was available. Scam.best also. Coffee.best, surprised it wasn’t taken yet it will soon as I post this. Though as you pointed out the word order makes no sense.

    I was going to reg one for a joke site, bought .top for $0.58 a year back so for fun, I regged some 2 word emd adult just to see if they would rank side by side without backlinks compared to some hosted tube adult sites, none did. No real traffic until I 301ed aged backlink sites to them, whereas 2-3 word com hand regged adult did get traffic. Same adult content basically and host. So much for the argument about being equal.
     
  24. henrypcyeung

    henrypcyeung Established Member

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    I was shocked that someone used a less comprehensive, less reliable source (Reported Sales thread on NP) instead of NameBio or DNJournal to prove something in the world. Most of the .com sales in the Reported Sales thread are just $xxx, does it mean .com has little value? Btw, there is one more recent ngTLD sale (.business, $2,900) in the thread.

    Someone mentioned there are very few actual uses of ngTLDs. Actually you can use google search to find the websites using ngTLDs:
    • site:.news --> 280 million search results
    • site:.site --> 248 million search results
    • site:.club --> 208 million search results
    • site:.xyz --> 190 million search results
    • site:.top --> 55 million search results
    • site:.app --> 8 million search results
     
  25. offthehandle

    offthehandle . Gold Account VIP

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    No commercial value for you or domainer trader resale, yea but that only. End users in those businesses perhaps could rank them. Christmas no commercial value? Macys.christmas developed out for once a year retail sales, except retail is shrinking. After.christmas too, etc. Congress people could use either as well for the parties, provided renewals are not too much. .garden for a small business, they can pay reg fee if they believe in it. The reason why these extensions exist is not to enrich lottery ticket speculator domainers, its for businesses. But I would bet if a survey were conducted that 2% of the population even know they exist, unless they went to GD after seeing a commercial and were frustrated their .com was taken, so see the alternatives.

    Thanks for education on the .bot extension, sounds right in line with you-are-the-product to give away free bot tld extensions. Google will follow your “registered” scraper bot around or your ideas, since you need to validate it and its no monetary cost. They will steal your data like they do with everything. I see no long term value in that extension at all.
     

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