new gtlds Pull up your sleeves, you new G's

[HotKey]

For the 3rd time in 6 months, watching the ol' tee-vee and wouldn't you know, on comes a Go Daddy commercial, with surprise surprise, promoting .guesswhatyesdot-com

I have yet to see another registrar or registry produce something like this for new G's, or anything for that matter.

So essentially, what we have here, is the maximum exposure on prime time television. 3 times in 6 months. Resulting in Mom and Pop knowing only three things:

- to buy a domain
- and there is only one extension
- all at one registrar

GD.

Soo, what the heck is every other registry and registrar doing to combat this monopolization? Nothing. No sleeves being pulled up, nothing being invested in main-stream television advertising by them.

I mean, comeon, get to work people. Investors pulling up our sleeves, but we seem to be the only ones. We have limited resources in educating the masses. To generate mass appeal on new products, we need exposure from the source, or even places like talk shows. Eg. Ellen or Jimmy Fallon. Else we're looking at a 50 year adoption rate. I mean slow and steady winds the race, but that slow??

When you have prime-time exposure, you don't have to worry about the distractors sitting around in circles singing kum ba yah and moaning and groaning how the non-coms don't get traffic, there's no comparables and oh no they are soo confusing. We don't need this mantra as new G investors. I would prefer if you're not willing to be educated, at the very least offer something constructive that improves to what we're building.

I realize Verisign is pooping cash, which helps them inject funds to, well, help them poop more cash, but surely the people who run new extensions had more than just the initial capital of 180k to acquire the new G?

They can't make something on the magnitude of a domain extension and expect people to just know about it. Particularly when up against an almost 40 year old behemoth.

So what's the problem? Are there vested interests that are attempting to bury new adoption? Or are these new registries really that cash-strapped? Whatever it is, looks like it continues to be up to us to roll up our sleeves and plug on. But until more excitement is generated, my weight will be on current stock rather than new acquisitions.

 

[bmugford]

(Duplicate post removed)

 

[bmugford]

It is not small piece Brad. There are 23 mil of new gTLDs registered at the moment, as one can chect at namestat.org . And this is just beginning. This thread is about that general awareness is missing, reporting is missing, many things are missing.. but those things can and will be improved in time.

There are 130M+ .COM. There are 340M+ total domains.
There are 23M+ new gTLD. I would define that as a small piece.

That number is also shrinking over the last couple years. The peak was around 2 years ago.
Since then the entire program has had negative registration growth.

Even recently -

According to NameStat -

Net Gain (Last 8 Wks) -575,126
Avg Net Gain per day -10,270

Imagine internet landscape in 10-20 years (this is my personal investment horizont, so to speak) -- chances are most people will use new gTLDs worldwide, together with ccTLDs in respective countries. .Com will remain very strong, particularly in US - but our planet is not only US Of course, this is just my personal view of things in future (and I might be wrong), but this a view which personally guides me when I purchase my investment names.

I am not sure which actual metrics those views are based on.
Seems more like wishful thinking in my view.

Brad

 

[PeakDots]

People need visual guidance before mass usage adoption can expected.

And this is why end users prefer the .com. The average internet user knows .com and 99% of the time it will be typed in the address leading most traffic to .com site. IMO

I'm not against ngtld,as I've invested in some but with no interest or sales as of now. Hopefully near future

But this quote has stuck with me from the first time I've read it and believe it to be true especially for new investors imo

7) Stick to .coms or in some cases ccTlds (country codes relevant to the market). Yes there have been a couple of good sales in other extensions such as .top, .club, .banana etc but these are tiny compared to the amount of speculators. You have more chance of selling a worse .com than an excellent gtld.

 

[Kate]

It is not small piece Brad. There are 23 mil of new gTLDs registered at the moment, as one can chect at namestat.org .

And you don't find it surprising that nTLDs have so little visibility in spite of those figures ? Clearly, there is a disconnect between registration numbers and actual usage.
After all .tk is the second biggest ccTLD after .cn. 20 million regs but little (positive) public prominence.

Imagine internet landscape in 10-20 years (this is my personal investment horizont, so to speak) -- chances are most people will use new gTLDs worldwide, together with ccTLDs in respective countries. .Com will remain very strong, particularly in US - but our planet is not only US

As usual, wait wait. I'm pretty sure you will be telling us the same thing in 5 years (hopefully not).
But what what do the past 5 years taught us ? What indicates that the next 15 are going to be any different ?

The future will not magically create demand that doesn't exist today. This is wishful thinking.

Even a long-established extensions like .biz is tanking, .name had begun tanking even before new TLDs were introduced. Old extensions like .coop .aero .museum .travel etc never took off.
The truth is that extensions do not always appreciate with time, they can decline. What's happening now is not so different than in 2001 when Icann introduced a small bunch of lousy extensions. The only thing that is different this time is the scale.

One simple question for you: do you use at least one nTLD for your real life business ?
Don't point me to your domain portfolio, but a real consumer-facing business.

If domainers are not even using nTLDs for their ordinary business activities, then it means they do not have faith in them. Then they should reconsider their investments. You have to drink your own medicine if you want others to take you seriously. But don't blame the registry for not doing enough promotion. All you have to do is use your domains for a serious purpose and it doesn't take a massive budget.

 

[garptrader]

Domain investors want sales but the world generally speaking places very little worth on domains. The vast majority of domain purchases are for reg fee. Beyond low $xxx there is considerable resistance to paying a premium price for a domain. Now before 2014 industry portfolio turn was in the 1% range. Adding 500 new extensions has not increased the demand to pay premium prices for domains. It has given low-budget end users more options. It makes selling a domain at a premium price even more difficult. There are some interesting potential combinations with the newer extensions but in the end they are merely additional alternatives to a massive oversupply of aftermarket domains. How many $xxxx aftermarket domain sales occur in a year (only way to carry a large portfolio with minimal parking income)? How many millions of aftermarket domains are available for sale? Until end users see the light....

 

[Brands.International]

And you don't find it surprising that nTLDs have so little visibility in spite of those figures ? Clearly, there is a disconnect between registration numbers and actual usage.
After all .tk is the second biggest ccTLD after .cn. 20 million regs but little (positive) public prominence.

As usual, wait wait. I'm pretty sure you will be telling us the same thing in 5 years (hopefully not).
But what what do the past 5 years taught us ? What indicates that the next 15 are going to be any different ?

The future will not magically create demand that doesn't exist today. This is wishful thinking.

Even a long-established extensions like .biz is tanking, .name had begun tanking even before new TLDs were introduced. Old extensions like .coop .aero .museum .travel etc never took off.
The truth is that extensions do not always appreciate with time, they can decline. What's happening now is not so different than in 2001 when Icann introduced a small bunch of lousy extensions. The only thing that is different this time is the scale.

One simple question for you: do you use at least one nTLD for your real life business ?
Don't point me to your domain portfolio, but a real consumer-facing business.

If domainers are not even using nTLDs for their ordinary business activities, then it means they do not have faith in them. Then they should reconsider their investments. You have to drink your own medicine if you want others to take you seriously. But don't blame the registry for not doing enough promotion. All you have to do is use your domains for a serious purpose and it doesn't take a massive budget.

@Kate I have very different views about almost everything you wrote, but we live in a free world, it is called democracy, thanks god for it. But it is funny, as I consider you (reading your posts) a very clever person - so I just can not wrap my mind around how it is possible that you do never see any opportunities which are clearly present in new gTLDs.

You typically like to put all new gTLDs into 1 basket, but for sure you must understand well it is the same is if you would put all ccTLDs in one basket.

Look, if you read my posts or appraisal threads, you know I am critical of high renewal fees, and many other different things. I am basically critical to most submitted names. But I put an effort to evaluate each and every investment name - so if it is wrong, I tell why I think so. If it is great, I tell why I think so. I might be wrong in many cases, but at least I try to do something constructive.

What is the point to always say bad things about new gTLDs? Some of them are not good investment opportunity, and some are excellent. But to always put everything into one basket is ...(and my apologies now for critical personal remark)... is simply lazy thinking. We need to keep our minds open to everything new .. it is not .biz or .aero world anymore. One can not just ignore everything new and think that people will still ask for one's nice collection of .biz or .us names or whatever was collected before, while you have all those new gTLDs now around - they are very good alternatives in many cases. So I think you could be more balanced, and that would be very valuable.

It is all about how we see the future will develop. There is a nice saying: "your thoughs will become your reality" - we need to make sure our reality is nice

 

[BaileyUK]

Let me chime in again, If we try to see positives in negatives, we are only deluding ourselves. I do admire your effort to talk-up the new stuff lolwarrior but really that's all your doing. You have to remember a lot of old-hands have seen and read it all before. right from the talk-up of .net as a ready made replacement for dot com in the early 2000's . To everything else that's been released and pumped since

Kate isn't going to lie as most of us wont - You could ask us to ignore your beliefs but that would equally wrong If you choose to make it such an active part of NP.

Most of us like to post positives but when it's detached from reality, then it wont happen. Your beautiful world aspirations for ntlds has no precedent. If it does then please direct us. The rest of us can direct you to the many failures

.tv (ccld) yep that had a market ready made, and at least it was released and promoted as a single focus

 

[oldtimer]

a lot of old-hands have seen and read it all before. right from the talk-up of .net as a ready made replacement for dot com in the early 2000's

.net was actually more popular at the beginning of the Internet since people at that time thought of Internet more as a networking opportunity rather than a business necessity, a lot of businesses didn't even want their .com names and had left them unregistered, it was only later on that .com was able to overtake .net in popularity as people became more aware of the benefits of Internet for their business. So change can happen with more awareness specially as new generations get involved since their minds are not influenced as much by old advertising dollars, just look at how a lot of millennials are shying away from social media where just up to a couple of years ago were all the rage amongst people. So people’s mindset and attitude can change and it is possible for New gTLDs to become the talk of the town in a few years if the registries end high renewal charges and start doing some advertising for New gTLDs collectively. (it will also help if google doesn’t hide the URLs for search results so people can see the domain names for the top results ). IMO

 

[HotKey]

Well, recently I was nicely surprised by .best registry representative came here, and gave us good and valuable information we asked for. But it would be certainly very nice if we would see more of such activities by others as well

Nice in way, but notice how they seem to always pop in when there's a large sale about to happen? Create all this noise, then they just kinda fade out of sight once the bandwagons full?

What concerns me, is how convenient for them to appear on NP, fully knowing its a domaining forum, pump their extension, and then disappear. This does nothing for real world awareness. It also inflates registration numbers, makes it seem as if a certain extension is doing fabulous, when really 99% of it is us, you and I. This is not a realistic indicator of how well an extension is doing, imo, and shouldn't be touted as such.

DESIGN did not do too badly, and APP and DEV could have been even better but certainly were much sounder introductions than most ngTLDs.

And to those that invested heavily into .mobi and use it as a reference point, understandable, but I ask: "What were you thinking?!"
You seriously couldn't have expected widespread usage with an extension called ".mobi", its comparable to the .devs and the .apps of today, be wary of these and don't invest heavily into something that's geared towards the few.

**EDIT not you Bob, using "you" as a generalization

That is never going to happen. There are too many different agendas, personalities, business models, etc.

The other obstacle that seems to be holding people back is that most business are unsure how New gTLDs are going to perform as far as SEO and rankings are concerned (like where their website is going to show in the search results)

I think we have two cruxes here (if its possible to have 2 cruxes, in fact I'll add a third afterwards). The one is personal (or company) agendas, where jobs are at stake if something goes wrong. And the other is what oldtimer mentioned, SEO. (btw, your two-paragraph was, in nutshell, perfect, and nice to meet you, oldtimer). Its discouraging that we've become slaves to the search engine. It defines our online business decisions, regardless of whether or not a domain name actually makes better semantic and branding sense. So poo on you, SEO. Its gotten to the point were were willing to sacrifice a great domain name for the sake of traffic and/or seo, or turining a profit because its a dot-king.
Third crux, new G's started off horribly. Don't need to list the reasons why, we all know. It left a bad taste in investors mouth (mine included), and strengthed the argument towards sticking with legacy extensions.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Its discouraging that we've become slaves to the search engine. It defines our online business decisions, regardless of whether or not a domain name actually makes better semantic and branding sense.

You have so perfectly said what I feel! Well said!

Also, a nice summary below of I think why some on NPs feel so strongly it is their duty to monitor every thread that might be talking about new extensions and tell us about .mobi (even though that was not a new extension, at least in ICANN official wording) and various other facts.

Third crux, new G's started off horribly. Don't need to list the reasons why, we all know. It left a bad taste in investors mouth (mine included), and strengthed the argument towards sticking with legacy extensions.

I have no idea if new extensions will ultimately be successful. I can argue either side. I do feel that aesthetically they are better. To me Casino.Online is much more elegant than CasinoOnline.com. If we did not have this legacy of thinking something valuable needed a .com tacked on even though really that had no functional role, that is if we were starting from scratch, I would bet on the new extensions.

I think in most things there is a tipping point which is the key idea for innovation acceptance. I think if ngTLDs reached the tipping point, things might change fast. Think back to some other tipping points. When Apple introduced a computer without a diskette reader lots of sceptics said that will never be OK for serious computers. Within a very few years it was hard to find a diskette reader. The smart phone at least as we know it now also totally dominated after there was enough adoption that people began seeing them.

Anyway, Saturday morning thoughts. Thanks for your insightful and well expressed post, @HotKey.

Bob

 

[JB Lions]

I think in most things there is a tipping point which is the key idea for innovation acceptance. I think if ngTLDs reached the tipping point, things might change fast.

It's not innovation, they're just new domain extensions. It's not the first time we've had new domain extensions, this time we just have them in bunches. Which is actually not good. When you have 1 come out (.me, .co), it gets all the focus, many, it's scattered. If Justin Bieber isn't a tipping point when he tweeted about his .tattoo, I don't know what is. Some point to Google using abc.xyz. That's not a consumer facing site, it's nothing really. Now, if they changed from Google.com to Google.xyz, and it was used for their main search url, then you have a story.

There is a nice saying: "your thoughs will become your reality" - we need to make sure our reality is nice

That's spiritual mumbo jumbo, Olga Kurylenko never walked thru my door.

 

[bmugford]

.
I think in most things there is a tipping point which is the key idea for innovation acceptance. I think if ngTLDs reached the tipping point, things might change fast. Think back to some other tipping points. When Apple introduced a computer without a diskette reader lots of sceptics said that will never be OK for serious computers. Within a very few years it was hard to find a diskette reader. The smart phone at least as we know it now also totally dominated after there was enough adoption that people began seeing them.

Right, but those are actual technological innovations.
New extensions work no differently than old extensions. There is no new technology there.

Also, those are things with broad use, where many people will never actually have a need for a domain.

I don't really see the comparison.

I think it is more comparable to toll free numbers. You start with 1-800, then 1-888, then 1-877, etc.
They all still work the same way.

Brad

 

[HotKey]

Well, innovations can come in all shapes and sizes.. at its core a domain name is a domain name is a domain name. They are all vehicles to take us to our destination. They all work the same, so no innovation there.

The innovation comes in the connection and the experience, the possibility of a perfect combination of a url extension with your brand. Its never been done before on this scale, and this precision.

For some, this strikes a chord, for others, ok, it doesn't.

 

[bmugford]

They are all vehicles to take us to our destination. They all work the same, so no innovation there.

I don't know, I would argue there is a difference between a car and an airplane. They are both vehicles, but work quite differently. Also a car and moving truck are both vehicles, but do quite different things as well.

Also a car that gets 50 miles/gallon works quite differently than one that gets 5/gallon.

There is a value proposition there for consumers. Also, once again these are widely used commercial products not niche digital products.

You also don't need to explain how to use a car to the general public. You don't need to explain how a .COM works either. You often have to explain that 2 words with a random dot between is an actual domain.

Brad

 

[JB Lions]

The innovation comes in the connection and the experience, the possibility of a perfect combination of a url extension with your brand. Its never been done before on this scale, and this precision.

As far as the scale, again, not good. There are so many even new gtld fans can't keep up. Go ask the common person about them, see the blank look on their face.

Innovation = connection and experience? DogTreats.com, connects perfectly. It's also on an extension the general public already knows. You've had stuff like .name, .travel before. Only new thing here, is they've released too many at the same time.

And then the problem talked about before, something I even mentioned just yesterday:

"perfect combination of a url extension"

Are those available? When registries keep the most obvious ones, the ones they miss get snapped up early by domainers. If I picked a random new gtld and made a list of the "perfect combination", how many do you really think would be sitting there to register? Somebody who wants it to develop, is going to have to do thru the registry or a domainer.

 

[Internet.Domains]

NewG's are innovative. Using the car analogy. Originally cars were manual transmission only. Automatic transmissions were an innovation, but it was still a car, it did the same task. Recently, electric motors are an innovation, but it is still a car with the same task as a gasoline motor. There has been many innovative developments with cars, just as there has been for domains.

 

[bmugford]

NewG's are innovative. Using the car analogy. Originally cars were manual transmission only. Automatic transmissions were an innovation, but it was still a car, it did the same task. Recently, electric motors are an innovation, but it is still a car with the same task as a gasoline motor. There has been many innovative developments with cars, just as there has been for domains.

You type Fitness.com into a browser it loads a website. You type Fitness.horse into a browser and it loads a website. I fail to see what is innovative there.

What is the new technology there I am missing exactly?

Brad

 

[JB Lions]

NewG's are innovative. Using the car analogy. Originally cars were manual transmission only. Automatic transmissions were an innovation, but it was still a car, it did the same task. Recently, electric motors are an innovation, but it is still a car with the same task as a gasoline motor. There has been many innovative developments with cars, just as there has been for domains.

It's not like there was .com, then nothing, then all these new gtlds came along. There were other extensions before this. Volume released isn't innovation, it was just a bad idea.

 

[Internet.Domains]

in·no·va·tion /ˌinəˈvāSH(ə)n/ noun the action or process of innovating. synonyms:change, alteration, revolution, upheaval, transformation, metamorphosis, reorganization, restructuring, rearrangement, recasting, remodelling, renovation, restyling, variation; More a new method, idea, product, etc. plural noun: innovations "technological innovations designed to save energy"

 

[JB Lions]

in·no·va·tion /ˌinəˈvāSH(ə)n/ noun the action or process of innovating. synonyms:change, alteration, revolution, upheaval, transformation, metamorphosis, reorganization, restructuring, rearrangement, recasting, remodelling, renovation, restyling, variation; More a new method, idea, product, etc. plural noun: innovations "technological innovations designed to save energy"

Or just new extensions. Would you say .net or .travel are innovative? I just think they're alternative domain extensions people can choose, just like these newer ones.

 

[bmugford]

in·no·va·tion /ˌinəˈvāSH(ə)n/ noun the action or process of innovating. synonyms:change, alteration, revolution, upheaval, transformation, metamorphosis, reorganization, restructuring, rearrangement, recasting, remodelling, renovation, restyling, variation; More a new method, idea, product, etc. plural noun: innovations "technological innovations designed to save energy"

Thanks for the broad definition.

By that definition virtually anything can be considered "innovation".
It is hard to think of any change, no matter how minor or stupid, that would not qualify.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

Or just new extensions. Would you say .net or .travel are innovative? I just think they're alternative domain extensions people can choose, just like these newer ones.

.MOBI and .TEL were also innovative. They were like the mini-disc and Zune of the domain world.

Brad

 

[HotKey]

Clearly, there is a disconnect with how these are viewed.

I am concerned that we are using vested interests, though, and purposely applying these disconnects, even knowing better.

But assuming the best, and taking what is said at to heart:

Using Brad's plane/car analogy, no one is arguing that .kings are the jets in the transportation world. There is always a better way, though. We shouldn't be adverse to it being known, and one day becoming the norm.

Is Uber an innovation, or just another cab? Depends what lens you wear. Personally, with new G's, I'm using binoculars.

JB's question, are they avail? Yes, they are. The cream of the crop, well who has access to those, just as in the dot-kings.

 

[bmugford]

Using Brad's plane/car analogy, no one is arguing that .kings are the jets in the transportation world. There is always a better way, though. We shouldn't be adverse to it being known, and one day becoming the norm.

I agree, but for every better way there are a thousand worse ways.

There is a difference between good and bad innovation. That is why products that don't offer a value proposition, or have a limited use or demand, fail far more than they succeed.

Uber for instance offers obvious value to consumers. It changed how booking a cab works.
It is easy to use. It both faster and cheaper, so it makes perfect sense it has done well.

There can be massive changes in the world, but they have to offer value proposition.
I don't see moving a dot as some paradigm shift.

The product itself (domains) is also niche so it will never be on the level as broad commercial products that most people care about.

Brad

 

[JB Lions]

JB's question, are they avail? Yes, they are. The cream of the crop, well who has access to those, just as in the dot-kings.

Not to hand reg they're not. If they were, you would have snapped them up or some other domainer. If I picked a random new gtld like .club and came up with a list, I would pick book, movie, music, cookie etc. I can't hand reg those. So same problem if you would go for a good .com. You'll have to pay most likely a domainer. At least with .com it's an extension that people know, you will never have to explain it, good everywhere, offline and online. Sometimes even those that are holding the new gtld are asking for more than what the .com is going for.