new gtlds Pull up your sleeves, you new G's

[HotKey]

For the 3rd time in 6 months, watching the ol' tee-vee and wouldn't you know, on comes a Go Daddy commercial, with surprise surprise, promoting .guesswhatyesdot-com

I have yet to see another registrar or registry produce something like this for new G's, or anything for that matter.

So essentially, what we have here, is the maximum exposure on prime time television. 3 times in 6 months. Resulting in Mom and Pop knowing only three things:

- to buy a domain
- and there is only one extension
- all at one registrar

GD.

Soo, what the heck is every other registry and registrar doing to combat this monopolization? Nothing. No sleeves being pulled up, nothing being invested in main-stream television advertising by them.

I mean, comeon, get to work people. Investors pulling up our sleeves, but we seem to be the only ones. We have limited resources in educating the masses. To generate mass appeal on new products, we need exposure from the source, or even places like talk shows. Eg. Ellen or Jimmy Fallon. Else we're looking at a 50 year adoption rate. I mean slow and steady winds the race, but that slow??

When you have prime-time exposure, you don't have to worry about the distractors sitting around in circles singing kum ba yah and moaning and groaning how the non-coms don't get traffic, there's no comparables and oh no they are soo confusing. We don't need this mantra as new G investors. I would prefer if you're not willing to be educated, at the very least offer something constructive that improves to what we're building.

I realize Verisign is pooping cash, which helps them inject funds to, well, help them poop more cash, but surely the people who run new extensions had more than just the initial capital of 180k to acquire the new G?

They can't make something on the magnitude of a domain extension and expect people to just know about it. Particularly when up against an almost 40 year old behemoth.

So what's the problem? Are there vested interests that are attempting to bury new adoption? Or are these new registries really that cash-strapped? Whatever it is, looks like it continues to be up to us to roll up our sleeves and plug on. But until more excitement is generated, my weight will be on current stock rather than new acquisitions.

 

[HotKey]

Look, can someone just make a damn commercial already??

It could be along the lines of

"How do you solve a problem like .maria?"

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Perhaps my specific example was not well chosen, @bmugford, but the tipping point I see involves two ideas if they came to be accepted by the general public and branding experts might be revolutionary:

• That other extensions are functionally the same as legacy ones.
• That tacking on a TLD that does not contribute to the meaning is like bell bottoms, padded shoulders on suits, and fins on cars, it does not add anything and is therefore inelegant design wise (even though it used to be the thing).

Now I agree that in some settings the .com does add meaning, and that is why in the dotcom boom so many were sold. I think that most companies want one for their main site will not change, at least in my lifetime. But I also think it is possible that domain will not be the one the organization use in marketing campaigns and also I think .com will stop being the automatic choice in some regions of the world (especially if economic isolationism grows) and not the obvious choice for some who do not view themselves as primarily commercial in nature.

For marketing campaigns it seems to me that certain of the new extensions offer an elegant way to express something, and simply putting the dot between the words makes it a clickable live link on media such as Twitter. I was talking with someone yesterday who does not believe new extensions will catch on and does not use Twitter at all, but when I explained this to her, and that the choices offered by the many hundreds of new extensions made many phrases possible, she agreed that made sense and is something she could see catching on in advertising online and off.

I agree with the point that both @JB Lions and @bmugford made that what is in front of consumers is what is important. I think that is the heart of any tipping point possibility. In most regions in most age categories we are far from there and the proponents of ngTLDs have done a terrible job getting us there. However, even in my few years of being more actively in domains I see signs of change. For example, I live in an urban area with strong community roots and the idea of car sharing, as opposed to private ownership, is relatively accepted. I belong to the car share as do many - there are 20,000 members including individuals, businesses, nonprofit organizations, and municipal departments and it is decades old. The car share now operates from a .coop as their main website, not a redirect. I talked to someone who works there about how the transition to a .coop TLD website was and she said it was almost painless. No complaints, virtually no misunderstanding, and people just accepted it. I know from attending their annual meeting they have people of all ages and you use their website (or app) for all car bookings. This showed to me that you could have something other than.com or .ca and it would work just fine. One of the larger churches in area has transformed to a .church domain name as have thousands of other churches worldwide. I don't know the situation well with the local church, but second hand was that the transition was smooth, again for a very diverse population including lots of seniors.

We are definitely not yet at a tipping point, and most people here first expect a .ca and then if not that a .com. But these local transitions have convinced me that it is not as difficult as most might argue. I think the car sharing example, even though .coop is a restricted TLD, is significant because for most it was their first time seeing that extension and it affected people from all age groups and businesses and organizations.

I think the other possible tipping point will involve the idea of extensions that are completely https spaces, as Google's .page, .app and .dev are. There is a lot of concern about security and privacy. I can see some adopting one of these totally for that reason, and that will move us closer to general adoption.

Will we reach a tipping point? I don't know but I don't think it can be discounted.

Bob

 

[bmugford]

Look, can someone just make a damn commercial already??

It could be along the lines of

"How do you solve a problem like .maria?"

The new gTLD have a problem as they don't all have the same interests.
Therefore, it would be hard for all/most of them to agree to anything.

So they are largely stuck to going at it alone. An expensive advertising campaign would likely lose money. I mean can some random extension really expect enough registrations to cover the cost? I highly doubt it.

They are also not really new and exciting anymore. They botched the rollout in large with reserved domains, high registration and/or renewal cost, opt-out registrations, penny regs, unrealistic predictions, etc.

You end up with a reverse supply and demand model. For instance Uniregistry had to raise their registrations/renewal cost due to lack of demand. That is not a winning model.

Brad

 

[BaileyUK]

I don't think anybody here feels like they are on a mission to denounce new extensions, or police NP posts.(as mentioned) But if there is a lot of posts regarding new extensions, then it becomes a hot topic in NPs own side indicators. There is no way the counter-posts/opinions are going to go away as long as one feels there is a reality check to be had. The fact is there are a few that want to keep the new extensions in the headlines of discussions with only positive spin

Those of us that have been through the loop before aren't going to let that spin prevail, particularly if it's looking to influence new comers. there needs to be a balance when so many threads are being started by those fairly new to the domain scene or with just one agenda

 

[Bob Hawkes]

There is a certain irony that the ngTLD threads primarily stay near the top lists on NPs, in many cases, simply because the critics post over and over again to them. Not want them to appear in the popular summary on NPs? Simply ignore them! Really.

Re innovation my take would be that if we come to use domain names in different ways that would be an innovation. That is if the marketing people sitting in the back office decide that an effective way to market on social media is to find a domain phrase that matches what they want to say, secure that domain, and use it with redirection to whatever they want.

Another innovation would be if a startup company rather than go to a brandable marketplace and buy for $$$$ some made up word that hints at what they do, instead sat around a table and said what are we authentically about? Then looked at the 500+ extensions and said which of those best matches what we are about. And then what words would work effectively in branding that we can obtain within our price range. Are we a tech company, what do we want with .tech. A space company, with .space. A science company? with .science. A design company? With .design. And so on. This and phrases are in my oppinion the only reason that 500+ extensions make slight sense.

A few, very few, companies do that now. If it became a standard way to look at new venture naming, I would argue that it would be revolutionary and innovative. It might be a tipping point. If we ever got to a point that someone vaguely remembered a company name and knew they were say in space and tried the .space extension with the name, then we would have reached the tipping point.

Bob

 

[bmugford]

There is a certain irony that the ngTLD threads primarily stay near the top lists on NPs, in many cases, simply because the critics post over and over again to them. Not want them to appear in the popular summary on NPs? Simply ignore them! Really.

I couldn't care less if they appear at the top.

On a daily basis there is not much that exciting going on in the domain world.
There is only so much to talk about.

A discussion is about all sides. A bunch of like minded people is not a discussion, it is an echo chamber.

Brad

 

[bmugford]

A few, very few, companies do that now. If it became a standard way to look at new venture naming, I would argue that it would be revolutionary and innovative. It might be a tipping point. If we ever got to a point that someone vaguely remembered a company name and knew they were say in space and tried the .space extension with the name, then we would have reached the tipping point.

Bob

There is also a potential negative tipping point. These have been around for 5+ years now and have made a limited impact. You can only expect people to care about something for so long.

A domain is just a niche product. It is hard to market them to the masses when so few people care about or need a domain.

At some point the ability to make people care is past a tipping point. Eventually people become apathetic to something that does not impact their lives in any real way.

Brad

 

[Bob Hawkes]

I agree completely @bmugford - my comment re how they appear high on popular lists on right was meant as response to @BaileyUK post just above. I should have said that. I always find value in your posts, even when I disagree, and I like lively discussion, as long as respectful and at least somewhat evidence based.

Bob

 

[BaileyUK]

There is a certain irony that the ngTLD threads primarily stay near the top lists on NPs, in many cases, simply because the critics post over and over again to them. Not want them to appear in the popular summary on NPs? Simply ignore them! Really.

Bob

Yep more spin If you don't like my posts stop referring to them. I'm sure there is your perfect Domain board out there. I've never pulled apart any of your long-winded posts, I hadn't seen myself starting or biting on your comments - Sorry you don't like it when it gets thrown the other way

 

[Internet.Domains]

There is also a potential negative tipping point. These have been around for 5+ years now and have made a limited impact. You can only expect people to care about something for so long.

A domain is just a niche product. It is hard to market them to the masses when so few people care about or need a domain.

At some point the ability to make people care is past a tipping point. Eventually people become apathetic to something that does not impact their lives in any real way.

Brad

On the "negative tipping point." My concern is that we are approaching that. I am a proponent of the NewG's, as I feel certain combinations are memorable and aesthetically pleasing, but adoption is on a clock.

All of this leads to my earlier post in which I intended to say there needs to be a "team" effort to break the tipping point. Currently, I don't see the "team" effort, but I see the "negative tipping point."

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Yep more spin If you don't like my posts stop referring to them. I'm sure there is your perfect Domain board out there. I've never pulled apart any of your long-winded posts, I hadn't seen myself starting or biting on your comments - Sorry you don't like it when it gets thrown the other way

I am sorry I was just trying to in a lighthearted (but honest) way say that ironically the reason some ngTLD threads stay on popular list (which you noted above), and get attention that some feel is undeserved, is because each post generates multiple posts from anti-ngTLD voices. It doesn't bother me in the least just pointing it out. I truly apologize if without meaning to I offended you in some way. I can assure you that was not my intention at all.

Thank you for your long service to NPs and domaining and congratulations on your success in the field.

With best wishes,
Bob

 

[Brands.International]

There is a certain irony that the ngTLD threads primarily stay near the top lists on NPs, in many cases, simply because the critics post over and over again to them. Not want them to appear in the popular summary on NPs? Simply ignore them! Really.

Bob

Bob, this is a very good advice. Really, whenever there is thread about new gTLDs, it is trending very quickly to the top...so why is this? It goes like this:

- no matter what ist the topic of the new gTLD thread, we will learn from the same small group of people that new gTLD are "stupid investment" and new gTLD investors are "stupid". If we ask to be left alone so we can peacefuly discuss what we are interested in, the same critics will tell us that they can not left us alone, as we do not know what we are doing, and they want to "help us". When we refuse this "help", we are then told that we "influence" new domain investors who are just beginning their journey, and it will "cost them money".

- If even this does not help, critics will get personal, and we get to circle dance of "show me your sales", which is (by far) my favourite. If we refuse to show our private financial data, we "sell nothing". If we share some sales, it is all automatically "fake sales".

Hey, I personally do not care, it is all part that we live in a free world. Everyone can express their opinion.
And I really enjoy good debate, without this, it would get pretty boring I guess

-------Small advice--------

Critics: if you do not want new gTLD threads to be always at top, I can give 2 advices :

1. Do not clutter new gTLD threads with unnecessary comments. If we discuss how to best register new gTLD names, we do not need to hear that you do not like them. I personally do not care if you clutter them or not, but if you clutter, it will logically result in more bumps and attention to new gTLD threads (recently I had cozy experience with OP named Johnnie...this person alone was bumping the new gTLD thread as if he would be paid for it, for which we of course thank him! But I am not sure this was his real intention...)

2. Try to write something interesting and fresh about extensions you invest - sure if the information will be interesting, it will be trending as well!

GL to all critics


Yours, lolwarrior

 

[BaileyUK]

Bob thank you, I consider my comments always part of open debate, 20 years plus is enough for me I can promise you.(Money is never our priority as we get older) I'm sure my few posts have limited effect on the position of an individual thread. This thread has had lots of good input. I only object or counter post when I can see too much wishful thinking being portrayed as reality. and as long as that thread stays, so will I.

I honestly do wish the new stuff would take off, blimey I'd spent thousand upon thousand on the biz, info , tv. etc so I am bitten and twice shy, I really don't want anyone making the same mistake.

All the best - nice of you to take the sting out of things

 

[BaileyUK]

I'm sorry lolwarrior but you are inclined to dress new extensions in a rather shining light . The wish that responses shouldn't be made unless they are positive is never going to happen. I don't recall any constructive comment being derogatory or personal. It's all about offering a balanced point of view. Yes from those that have been around a while

 

[Internet.Domains]

This has been a very cordial thread on the NewG's, with varying opinions......In that respect, maybe we can agree on something....

 

[Brands.International]

This has been a very cordial thread on the NewG's, with varying opinions......In that respect, maybe we can agree on something....

Very cordial indeed

Well, I do care for new gTLD critics, and I am afraid, if this goes in this speed, in 2 days again this thread will be trending as no.1 on Namepros...again new gTLDs...one can not avoid it, it seems

 

[Domains - Wanted]

...Pick one, let's say .cricket which is at 16,595.

This is an extreme example. I have no idea what they were thinking of, investing in this nTLD
However, there are many nTLD's that could benefit from more exposure, advertising, IMHO... For example: .design, .club, .global, .online, .business, .trade, .consulting...

 

[Brands.International]

I'm sorry lolwarrior but you are inclined to dress new extensions in a rather shining light . The wish that responses shouldn't be made unless they are positive is never going to happen. I don't recall any constructive comment being derogatory or personal. It's all about offering a balanced point of view. Yes from those that have been around a while

I am also for balanced point of view @BaileyUK . What is negative in new gTLDs is negative, what is positive is positive.

I guess it does not matter who has been here for while (if all the experience is only with legacy extensions) One needs to have enough of new gTLD names, register them, renew them, trade them, transfer them, and then experience with them will come, both positive and negative. For this, you do not need to be 20 years in domain business...

So I am focusing on positive parts, as focusing on what is negative, will not bring me anything ...

 

[BaileyUK]

It definitely is a hot-topic. .So it should stay in the forefront of debate. I just wish posts would stay focused on what is happening rather than what they wish would happen. Like all variations of extensions, It's going to be with what the major Registrars run with, 300 plus is just not within their own self interest. Lets see what emerges to the TOP (I can't believe it's dot top at the moment)

 

[oldtimer]

As most experienced domainers here know regardless of what extensions they own, their biggest critics for their domains are usually themselves, especially at renewal time when they have to decide which domains they want to keep. When it comes to New gTLDs logic says that if the renewals are low and the keywords are strong enough and correlate perfectly with the extension it would be worth taking a chance and waiting to see how the New gTLDs end up in a few years. IMO

 

[JB Lions]

This is an extreme example. I have no idea what they were thinking of, investing in this nTLD
However, there are many nTLD's that could benefit from more exposure, advertising, IMHO... For example: .design, .club, .global, .online, .business, .trade, .consulting...

They all could benefit. Another problem is a lot of these are interchangeable. Just look at the ones that would fall under the real estate umbrella:

realestate
estate
property
properties
house
homes
studio - could be used for various things
rentals
etc. didn't include the ones not in English

Let's take a look at 1 you mentioned, .trade:
https://ntldstats.com/tld/trade

7 months ago it was at around 193,000, today around 132,000. Invest advertising dollars in that? They could be spending money on these, a lot of them aren't. I think they are aware of the very same issues brought up in this thread.

 

[Brands.International]

As most experienced domainers here know regardless of what extensions they own, their biggest critics for their domains are usually themselves, especially at renewal time when they have to decide which domains they want to keep. When it comes to New gTLDs logic says that if the renewals are low and the keywords are strong enough and correlate perfectly with the extension it would be worth taking a chance and waiting to see how the New gTLDs end up in a few years. IMO

Very well said.

 

[BrandableDomain]

Two important factors do not seem to have been mentioned so far.

1. The shortage of good dot com names. There are now maybe 135M dot coms registered to a world population over 7B. The best ones are being sold and taken off the market forever.

If you watch the latest DomainSherpa show, you can see this expressed very well. Though they are talking about premium one word dot coms, it’s also relevant to the new extensions.

Off the Market Forever: The Increasing Dilemma of Domain Supply & Demand

https://www.domainsherpa.com/domain-supply-demand/

In my opinion, the newGs cannot fail because there are simply not enough good dot com names to meet world demand. Full stop.

Candy.com has long since been sold and is off the market forever. Fortunately for businesses, there are now alternatives like Candy.store that are good viable options.

2. Verisign has not even released the king of newGs yet. Having spent $135M acquiring it, it is plausible they might spend a comparable amount launching it, which could be a tipping point in public awareness.

Dot WEB

From the company behind Dot COM

 

[johnnie018]

Though they are talking about premium one word dot coms, it’s also relevant to the new extensions.

No it isn’t. High prices in Manhattan doesn’t translate to high prices in Botswana.

 

[oldtimer]

Two important factors do not seem to have been mentioned so far.

1. The shortage of good dot com names. There are now maybe 135M dot coms registered to a world population over 7B. The best ones are being sold and taken off the market forever.

If you watch the latest DomainSherpa show, you can see this expressed very well. Though they are talking about premium one word dot coms, it’s also relevant to the new extensions.

Off the Market Forever: The Increasing Dilemma of Domain Supply & Demand

https://www.domainsherpa.com/domain-supply-demand/

In my opinion, the newGs cannot fail because there are simply not enough good dot com names to meet world demand. Full stop.

Candy.com has long since been sold and is off the market forever. Fortunately for businesses, there are now alternatives like Candy.store that are good viable options.

2. Verisign has not even released the king of newGs yet. Having spent $135M acquiring it, it is plausible they might spend a comparable amount launching it, which could be a tipping point in public awareness.

Dot WEB

From the company behind Dot COM

You have made couple of good points, the very reason that New gTLDs were released by ICANN was to give people more choices as most popular keywords had been taken off the market or were very expensive to acquire for the average end users, but as already mentioned in this thread there are a few more factors that have contributed to the slow adaption to the New gTLDs :

1- Even though the New gTLDs were supposed to have created more choices for end users, but the high renewal model has put people off, as already mentioned it might have been better to charge a very low renewal fee and made it possible for people to buy their desired domain on Installment plans so that they wouldn’t have to face all those huge never ending renewal charges.

2- The current mindset created by old advertising dollars has caused people to want to stick with .com even if they end up with a lower quality domain.

3- End users might be hesitant to take a chance with New gTLDs because of SEO concerns and perhaps because they are being told by their IT department or SEO guys who have an old school mindset themselves that .com is the only way to go in order to rank high on the search engines, which to some extent is being reinforced by the fact that it's not very clear as to how much longer the search engines are going to be able to ignore the keyword/extension correlation that the New gTLDs have.

4- Lack of a collective advertising campaign by the Registries.

But the good news is that people’s mindsets, attitudes, and habits can change over time, so there is still some hope for New gTLDs, especially because sooner or later the search engines have to factor in the keyword/extension correlation which will give New gTLDs a huge advantage. IMO

PS: as you have mentioned .web could have great potentials, but it's not very clear as to whether it is going to be implemented soon or if it's going to be stored unused in order to protect .com