new gtlds Pull up your sleeves, you new G's

[HotKey]

For the 3rd time in 6 months, watching the ol' tee-vee and wouldn't you know, on comes a Go Daddy commercial, with surprise surprise, promoting .guesswhatyesdot-com

I have yet to see another registrar or registry produce something like this for new G's, or anything for that matter.

So essentially, what we have here, is the maximum exposure on prime time television. 3 times in 6 months. Resulting in Mom and Pop knowing only three things:

- to buy a domain
- and there is only one extension
- all at one registrar

GD.

Soo, what the heck is every other registry and registrar doing to combat this monopolization? Nothing. No sleeves being pulled up, nothing being invested in main-stream television advertising by them.

I mean, comeon, get to work people. Investors pulling up our sleeves, but we seem to be the only ones. We have limited resources in educating the masses. To generate mass appeal on new products, we need exposure from the source, or even places like talk shows. Eg. Ellen or Jimmy Fallon. Else we're looking at a 50 year adoption rate. I mean slow and steady winds the race, but that slow??

When you have prime-time exposure, you don't have to worry about the distractors sitting around in circles singing kum ba yah and moaning and groaning how the non-coms don't get traffic, there's no comparables and oh no they are soo confusing. We don't need this mantra as new G investors. I would prefer if you're not willing to be educated, at the very least offer something constructive that improves to what we're building.

I realize Verisign is pooping cash, which helps them inject funds to, well, help them poop more cash, but surely the people who run new extensions had more than just the initial capital of 180k to acquire the new G?

They can't make something on the magnitude of a domain extension and expect people to just know about it. Particularly when up against an almost 40 year old behemoth.

So what's the problem? Are there vested interests that are attempting to bury new adoption? Or are these new registries really that cash-strapped? Whatever it is, looks like it continues to be up to us to roll up our sleeves and plug on. But until more excitement is generated, my weight will be on current stock rather than new acquisitions.

 

[Kate]

1. The shortage of good dot com names. There are now maybe 135M dot coms registered to a world population over 7B. The best ones are being sold and taken off the market forever.

The argument is not new. 20 years ago people were already saying the best names are taken. So people adapt, they use longer domains, they use ccTLDs or sometimes repurposed extensions like .co or .io (those remain more popular choices among startups than nTLDs go figure).
People have not waited on new extensions.
There are plenty of decent domains available on the aftermarket at moderate prices. The aftermarket alleviates the scarcity.

In my opinion, the newGs cannot fail because there are simply not enough good dot com names to meet world demand. Full stop.

I am wondering what is your definition of failure. Do you consider .tel .mobi .cam .bid or .horse a success for example ?
Or .wed which is already in EBERO ? I could give many more examples.
You are overestimating the demand. There are too many extensions competing for a small share of the pie. This is precisely the reason why they will fail, almost all of them, and they are failing.
At the very least, 'not failing' does not mean achieving success

Candy.com has long since been sold and is off the market forever. Fortunately for businesses, there are now alternatives like Candy.store that are good viable options.

This example is a domain for sale so end users still have to buy on the aftermarket. Back to square one. The stated purpose of new extensions was to increase availability of good domains (keywords). But registries and speculators (the lines have blurred between the two) have effectively made sure this wouldn't happen. Yes, some decent combos slip through the crack but not so many.
Too often, the most obvious combos, those that make sense in the TLD are out of reach of ordinary end users.

The majority of nTLDs cannot act as a replacement for .com because they are not all-purpose extensions. There are only so many keywords that make sense in .horse or villas.
.online is more broad.


Back to the topic at hand.
If domainers believe that nTLDs are valid alternatives to established extensions, then they should lead by example and use nTLDs for their consumer-facing business. Some of you are business owners, self-employed and have complete freedom. So what's holding you up ? Pull up your sleeves

I rest my case.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

@Kate has raised many valid points. There are already other options, both in legacy alternatives and especially in country code space, and as she says the majority of new extensions are not general purpose extensions suited to a businesses main site (with a few exceptions). Her final point re using them is spot on.

While the stated purpose was to provide more names because the .com space was so heavily taken, I think that is not necessarily the use they will primarily find, if they succeed. I agree that in many ways it is wrong to view ngTLDs as competition for .com, and that their main growth, if it ever happens, will be in new uses (e.g. campaign specific phrases) and new markets (e.g. certain regions and creatives that are currently turning to options like FB/Wix/ etc. and not using a domain currently). She is also right that most ngTLDs are not designed to be general purpose.

I think the one place new gTLDs do compete to some degree with .com is where the end use is commercial (in some sense) and the competition is between a relatively expensive two word com and a new extension. Let's say that a company is considering Word1Word2.com and Word1.Word2. The former has the advantage that most of the general public (at least in the US and to some degree globally) assume .com as default. The second has the advantage that it is (I would argue) more in tune with modern design principles (descriptive without added nonessential aspects) and to some feels fresher. Both views have merit imho.

I want to comment a bit on economics since many discount out of hand end users considering domains with significant renewal costs. Let's say my options are a two word com that the seller is asking $5000 for vs a new extension where the price is $1000 but it also carries a $200 per year renewal fee. If we take the initial cost savings ($4000) and apply say 5% cost of borrowing/investing money, that translates to $200 per year. So cases go each way in terms of numbers, but we can't overlook that a company that pays say $500,000 for a domain name is essentially carrying a $25,010 per year effective cost, even though they only pay their registrar $10.

I think it is true as several have noted that one roadblock to registries cooperating in advertising is that they are in competition, and another is that essentially each ngTLD has a different potential market so one size advertising does not work.

Ultimately @Kate draws attention to the single most important thing. More ngTLDs need to get in use by consumer facing significant websites. That is worth far more than advertising of any type.

Bob

 

[Bob Hawkes]

Bob thank you, I consider my comments always part of open debate, 20 years plus is enough for me I can promise you.(Money is never our priority as we get older) I'm sure my few posts have limited effect on the position of an individual thread. This thread has had lots of good input. I only object or counter post when I can see too much wishful thinking being portrayed as reality. and as long as that thread stays, so will I.

I honestly do wish the new stuff would take off, blimey I'd spent thousand upon thousand on the biz, info , tv. etc so I am bitten and twice shy, I really don't want anyone making the same mistake.

All the best - nice of you to take the sting out of things

Thanks for your post @BaileyUK. When I was sleepless overnight (it happens a lot with age I find!) I was trying to see why you at first reacted so strongly to what I had written. i suddenly had the insight that when I said it was in response to your post you must have interpreted it as meaning you post all the time to ngTLD threads. It was not that at all I assure you! My reference to you was simply about the line you used in this thread on ngTLD staying on the popular list. But let me assure you I was not in any way meaning you personally do that! Anyway, just wanted to stress that was never my intended meaning.

I can't remember who said this recently on which thread, but someone made the very good comment that the single most important thing is to not believe face value any opinion from anyone in domaining. Do your own due diligence, consult the evidence you personally think is relevant, make your own decisions. I hope, and think, that on that we agree!

20 plus years is a lot in anything. I know this thread is not the place for it, but I would love to hear reflections from those with long term experience in the business (say 10+ of active domain sales) on what was their biggest insight, the one piece of advice they would offer, the one thing they most regret, etc. I hope someone starts such a thread (hint ).

Have a nice day.

Bob

 

[oldtimer]

Back to the topic at hand.
If domainers believe that nTLDs are valid alternatives to established extensions, then they should lead by example and use nTLDs for their consumer-facing business. Some of you are business owners, self-employed and have complete freedom. So what's holding you up ? Pull up your sleeves

I rest my case.

@Kate, I have seen a few domainers here who use New gTLDs for their website, and to me those look very nice and appropriate, but as you have pointed out domainers and those who are directly involved with New gTLDs like the Registries should try to set an example by using New gTLDs whenever and wherever they can.

I declare today the 10th of March as the “New gTLD” day when we all came to agreement that domainers (and Registries) should pull up their sleeves and start using New gTLDs for their own websites.

 

[HotKey]

So people adapt, they use longer domains, they use ccTLDs or sometimes repurposed extensions like .co or .io (those remain more popular choices among startups than nTLDs go figure).

Well, I would argue, why should we use something repurposed, or sub-par like a longer name? Would you? Do we not take pride in our business anymore?

There are plenty of decent domains available on the aftermarket at moderate prices. The aftermarket alleviates the scarcity.

The aftermarket is full of junk. Literally. You cannot tell me there are plethora of decent names on the aftermarket. Everyone is scrambling and competing against each other, all for lower and lower quality names as time goes on, because if you're only focused on the king, its like real estate, they aint making any more of it. Sure, add word here, a number there, maybe a dash or two, but get real. Names in the granddaddy have run their course.

There are too many extensions competing for a small share of the pie.

Just like there are too many people competing for a share of the king's blessing.

The majority of nTLDs cannot act as a replacement for .com because they are not all-purpose extensions. There are only so many keywords that make sense in .horse or villas.
.online is more broad.

For the majority, not being all-purpose, that was kind of the point.

If domainers believe that nTLDs are valid alternatives to established extensions, then they should lead by example and use nTLDs for their consumer-facing business.
I rest my case.

Many are. And more and more. And if they're not using it as main site, they are using the new G as a redirect.

**

We can't discount, going forward, that planning for a broader exposure in your portfolio with new gTLDs is a prudent strategy. I would be looking for my matching new extension as a current .com owner.

 

[Bob Hawkes]

If domainers believe that nTLDs are valid alternatives to established extensions, then they should lead by example and use nTLDs for their consumer-facing business. Some of you are business owners, self-employed and have complete freedom. So what's holding you up ?

I think that NPs rules prevent me from drawing attention to my website or my signature in this thread so I am not (see rules nicely followed I hope ) but I agree with @Kate. From day 1 of my public web face for my domain portfolio (back in 2017) I have used only a new gTLD (even though I sell a mix of legacy, country code and new extensions) and have it registered until 2027 so plan to stay there. I also use one for two other "consumer facing" websites I manage (and suggested one to my daughter for her website, but she chose a trusty .ca for her site that I manage). I agree that it always struck me as discordant to see a .com domain site that sold mainly new gTLDs although realize there are good reasons that some do that (particularly if they built it as a brand prior to moving into new extensions). Actually a fair number of NPs users have suggested to me I should get the .com, but I always felt if I truly believe that a new gTLD can be your main site, but used a .com even for redirection, is not that a bit inconsistent? Just my humble opinion. Hopefully in accordance with all rules .

Bob

 

[HotKey]

@Kate
I declare today the 10th of March as the “New gTLD” day when we all came to agreement that domainers (and Registries) should pull up their sleeves and start using New gTLDs for their own websites.

A new gTLD day, nice. All right, I second that.
(runs to calendar)

 

[JB Lions]

Bob, this is a very good advice. Really, whenever there is thread about new gTLDs, it is trending very quickly to the top...so why is this? It goes like this:

- no matter what ist the topic of the new gTLD thread, we will learn from the same small group of people that new gTLD are "stupid investment" and new gTLD investors are "stupid". If we ask to be left alone so we can peacefuly discuss what we are interested in, the same critics will tell us that they can not left us alone, as we do not know what we are doing, and they want to "help us". When we refuse this "help", we are then told that we "influence" new domain investors who are just beginning their journey, and it will "cost them money".

- If even this does not help, critics will get personal, and we get to circle dance of "show me your sales", which is (by far) my favourite. If we refuse to show our private financial data, we "sell nothing". If we share some sales, it is all automatically "fake sales".

Hey, I personally do not care, it is all part that we live in a free world. Everyone can express their opinion.
And I really enjoy good debate, without this, it would get pretty boring I guess

-------Small advice--------

Critics: if you do not want new gTLD threads to be always at top, I can give 2 advices :

1. Do not clutter new gTLD threads with unnecessary comments. If we discuss how to best register new gTLD names, we do not need to hear that you do not like them. I personally do not care if you clutter them or not, but if you clutter, it will logically result in more bumps and attention to new gTLD threads (recently I had cozy experience with OP named Johnnie...this person alone was bumping the new gTLD thread as if he would be paid for it, for which we of course thank him! But I am not sure this was his real intention...)

2. Try to write something interesting and fresh about extensions you invest - sure if the information will be interesting, it will be trending as well!

GL to all critics

Show attachment 112033
Yours, lolwarrior

As far as threads on top, I've never seen anybody care about that. I don't. I never even notice it.

As far as the show me your sales, those, again, are all legit requests. And they usually come after something you say. Recently a thread on selling new gtlds. In this thread you mentioned registry showing their sales to help new gtlds out. We had past conversations where I said the exact same thing to you. You argued against it. I pointed out posting sales can only help. Then you just mentioned the fake thing again, saying if you do post sales, people will call them fake. We just went over that in the other thread, pointing out I don't see anybody calling Fancy Domains names fake.

 

[HotKey]

And btw, not meaning to come off as disrespectful using terms like "kings blessing", granddaddy" etc, as I have a great respect for the pioneering roots of the domain business, just as I do the elders in my life. Would not be here if not for them. Just as new G's, would not be here if not for the cornerstone built by it's founders.

 

[JB Lions]

The aftermarket is full of junk. Literally. You cannot tell me there are plethora of decent names on the aftermarket..

This was mentioned by other people besides yourself. I can tell when people aren't active on the Aftermarket when they make posts like this. This was also one of selling points/marketing of new gtlds.

That you can't get good .coms anymore for a decent price. That's false. Not sure how many times I've pointed to that one blog where they post end user buys. Most of them being coms for low x,xxx and under. Most domainers who do this for a living or active, participate in the Aftermarket. You can get good names all day long. And end users can buy .com from domainers at good prices as well. Like most people who first get into this, I started off mostly doing hand regs. Things changed once I jumped into the Aftermarket, much better names, more/higher sales.

side note as far as availability of .coms. This has been pointed out many times. How many times people buying new gtlds, when the comparable .com is sitting there to hand reg. The recent .homes thread is a good example.

 

[HotKey]

Well, I suppose a "good name" is subjective. A good name, as in appealing for a flip? A good name because you'll run your site on it? A good name because its similar, worried about brand protection? A good name, because it falls into the trending bandwagon?

When I say junk, I'm talking about something I'll be happy to put on my business card, to advertise, and if I have a bricks and mortar, a nice sign out front.

 

[JB Lions]

Well, I suppose a "good name" is subjective. A good name, as in appealing for a flip? A good name because you'll run your site on it? A good name because its similar, worried about brand protection? A good name, because it falls into the trending bandwagon?

When I say junk, I'm talking about something I'll be happy to put on my business card, to advertise, and if I have a bricks and mortar, a nice sign out front.

Yes, I only buy names I can picture a site being built on. There is a thread somewhere here with people posting names they've sold, that have been developed. The aftermarket is going to have the best names for domain investors.

 

[NickB]

Well, I suppose a "good name" is subjective. A good name, as in appealing for a flip? A good name because you'll run your site on it? A good name because its similar, worried about brand protection? A good name, because it falls into the trending bandwagon?

When I say junk, I'm talking about something I'll be happy to put on my business card, to advertise, and if I have a bricks and mortar, a nice sign out front.

Great thing with this industry is that a "good name" is in the eye of the beholder - be it domain investor or end user, the trick is getting both right

 

[oldtimer]

And btw, not meaning to come off as disrespectful using terms like "kings blessing", granddaddy" etc, as I have a great respect for the pioneering roots of the domain business, just as I do the elders in my life. Would not be here if not for them. Just as new G's, would not be here if not for the cornerstone built by it's founders.

@HotKey, Well I came up with the New gTLD Day because of this thread that was started by you and also Kate's suggestion for domainers to start using New gTLDs for their own websites, so now you are kind of part of the New gTLD history yourself.

@Kate, so like it or not you are now considered one of the Founders of the New gTLD movement.

 

[HotKey]

Great thing with this industry is that a "good name" is in the eye of the beholder - be it domain investor or end user, the trick is getting both right

Definitely a balancing act. "Eye of the beholder", have always loved that. That's the way it should be.

Finding the "sweet spot" with whatever method we use, is why we become so stalwart. Once you find it, no way your going to let that go, and use whatever means to protect it.

 

[HotKey]

@Kate, so like it or not you are now considered one of the Founders of the New gTLD movement.

oh she's gonna love that

 

[HotKey]

Actually a fair number of NPs users have suggested to me I should get the .com, but I always felt if I truly believe that a new gTLD can be your main site, but used a .com even for redirection, is not that a bit inconsistent?

Imo, this is going to be a massive hurdle for current king owners. The transition. Will also be a big set back for new G adoption without the aid of real honest to goodness live TV marketing, because in the eyes of those already owning a quality name in the com, why should they even bother?

 

[Bob Hawkes]

If there was to be effective joint effort tv advertising of ngTLDs I think the most effective approach would be something analogous to Apple's famous Think Different campaign when the Mac came out. But in many ways the time to do that sort of advertising was 4 years ago.

Bob

 

[NickB]

the below is 2016 figures - the gap is widening - TV is becoming outdated


https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-...a-third-less-broadcast-tv-as-they-move-online

 

[Fancy.domains]

For me, as a domainer, a good name is a domain that has a realistic potential to sell, and I sell both .coms, .orgs, ccTLDs, but most of all, ngTLDs.

It is being profitable that matters for me, not the extension. And I have proven (at least to myself) that all of the ones mentioned above are possible to sell today, last year and the year before that.

Guys like Rick Schwartz or Mike Mann obviously don’t give a damn about ngTLDs and why should they??! It’s like selling Picassos, but start to invest in local talents. However, I got serious in this in 2014 and my preconditions were totally different.

.Com will be king in the domain world for a long long time, and I’ve no problem with this whatsoever. Still, I can still make a good profit selling other extensions.

 

[HotKey]

If there was to be effective joint effort tv advertising of ngTLDs I think the most effective approach would be something analogous to Apple's famous Think Different campaign when the Mac came out. But in many ways the time to do that sort of advertising was 4 years ago.
Bob

For sure, in a perfect world, you do it on the roll out. Rather than letting it sit and become stagnant.

But thank goodness they didn't. Can you imagine, it was bad enough for us, let alone mainstream going all nutty registering their new G, only to have it taken mid-way through the year, or the renewal price skyrocketing.

I think for the most part, all their ducks in a row now.

 

[Brands.International]

@Kate, so like it or not you are now considered one of the Founders of the New gTLD movement.

I love it, this is waaay too funny .. like it or not, you will be Founder of the New gTLD movement

 

[HotKey]

the below is 2016 figures - the gap is widening - TV is becoming outdated

This is true, numbers show a year over year upwards trend towards cutting the cable cord.

But what they don't show, is the proliferation of people actually coming back to real TV, in a popular format known as IP TV, essential a television feed to a real TV, using internet protocol.

People are getting sick of watching feeds via a small screen, it just doesn't make sense.

 

[Fancy.domains]

I love it, this is waaay too funny .. like it or not, you will be Founder of the New gTLD movement

The New gTLD Movement - TNGM, will flourish in 2019 and 2020!

 

[oldtimer]

Welcome to the NewgTLD.club

(got it for 99 cents a few days ago)