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.mobi Possible TM issues with Mobi aftermarket??

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Keith

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I just bid on 2 LLL mobis and then decided to check uspto.gov for TMs. Both names have multiple TM holders. I know other people have bid on the same names so I dont know if I should continue bidding or drop out. What are your thoughts on this one? It seems that many LLL mobis have TMs but that is not stopping people from snatching them up at aftermarket prices.

keithmt
 
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The views expressed on this page by users and staff are their own, not those of NamePros.
AfternicAfternic
Personally i would go ahead with your bidding, A LLL.mobi usually is an abbreviation of something and the LLL could mean many things to many people. It would be very hard to prove that one has more of a right to own a LLL domain over another!
 
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Yes, unless you're using the domain in bad faith, either with its content or by contacting a TM holder, you should be fine. :imho:
 
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Egnited said:
Yes, unless you're using the domain in bad faith, either with its content or by contacting a TM holder, you should be fine. :imho:

And unless it's a blatantly obvious trademark that everyone typing in the acronym would be looking for -- i.e. IBM.
 
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It really depends on the trademark holder's viewpoint and those of the courts on the LLL.mobi as whether legal action is needed if the trademark is or can be disputable. In most courts in the U.S. & U.K. if the trademark holder fails to protect or defend their copyrights, trademarks and or intellectual property in a timely fashion, the holder of said property sets a legal precedent in which said property can be contested in court and determined if the intellectual property has been genericized. There are some classic cases in which the holders of trademarked properties lost cases in which they failed to actively defend their trademarks. Cases such as: escalator, zipper, Frisbee, Jell-O, and Xerox are all good examples. It is up to the intellectual property holder to actively defend their trademarks if they wish to keep them.

I hope this helps you in your decision.
 
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INC.mobi has been taken away from its registrant despite was not doing anything wrong, someone claimed a TM on INC and a very dumb resolution gave the name to the company
 
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italiandragon said:
INC.mobi has been taken away from its registrant despite was not doing anything wrong, someone claimed a TM on INC and a very dumb resolution gave the name to the company

Yep....another good example italiandragon.
 
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Thanks for the feedback guys. The bidding went to high for me so I had to give up. Someone got a few gems (mnm.mobi mmi.mobi). Oh well, time to look for another LLL to buy. Thanks again.

keithmt
 
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italiandragon said:
INC.mobi has been taken away from its registrant despite was not doing anything wrong, someone claimed a TM on INC and a very dumb resolution gave the name to the company

The previous owner of inc.mobi did do something wrong. I remember he wanted to sell that name on ebay or something like that and was caught by the Inc company. So the bad faith did apply to the guy.
 
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hedgefund said:
italiandragon said:
INC.mobi has been taken away from its registrant despite was not doing anything wrong, someone claimed a TM on INC and a very dumb resolution gave the name to the company

The previous owner of inc.mobi did do something wrong. I remember he wanted to sell that name on ebay or something like that and was caught by the Inc company. So the bad faith did apply to the guy.

So, is selling a generic name like INC.MOBI a bad faith?
Is actually time we bind together to start challenging this kind of decisons because as far as I am concern the name INC. has not acquired a secondary meaning.

What would have happened if mTLD had auction the name(INC.MOBI) as part of its reserve name process? I bet absolutely nothing and what differentiate the original registrant's action from how mTLD are selling the generic reserve names ? nothing.

I would agree that a hand full of generic names have acquired secondary meaning and even then ,complete rights are not assured.
 
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Bad faith...that's the whole reason that I don't park my LLL.mobi's nor list them for sale. Rather, I put up my own ad-free page saying that the website is coming soon. Might not fully protect against "bad faith", but in my opinion it's well worth the extra measure!
 
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hedgefund said:
The previous owner of inc.mobi did do something wrong. I remember he wanted to sell that name on ebay or something like that and was caught by the Inc company. So the bad faith did apply to the guy.

parking a name and putting a name for sale on ebay is not bad faith. if your name is not trademarked then you have the right to sell it for however much you want. the name inc.mobi is generic and if the owner would have had a lawyer instead of defending himself then he would not have lost the name.
 
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nrmillions said:
hedgefund said:
The previous owner of inc.mobi did do something wrong. I remember he wanted to sell that name on ebay or something like that and was caught by the Inc company. So the bad faith did apply to the guy.

parking a name and putting a name for sale on ebay is not bad faith. if your name is not trademarked then you have the right to sell it for however much you want. the name inc.mobi is generic and if the owner would have had a lawyer instead of defending himself then he would not have lost the name.

I agree with you nrmillions if the domain registrant had used a lawyer instead of defending himself but yet the panel ruled wrong in my own opinion considering hundred of thousand of companies if not millions using INC together with their company name.

What if the registrant had bought the name from the Mtld auction process and later list on ebay for sale then what would have happened?

The panel also failed to realize mTld is technically involved in the secondary market as any other domainers.
 
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The panel was designed to protect corporate interests, nothing more. Highly encourage reading : http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2000/d2000-0044.html

Here's a passage from this case which may be relevant to this decision:

"The panel is thus unwilling to draw the inference that offering the "toefl.com" domain name for sale on a publicly accessible website to any party willing to pay its price constitutes an offer to sell the domain name to the Complainant or to a competitor of the Complainant. Certainly the Complainant and its competitors are potential purchasers. However, if the drafters of paragraph 4(b)(i) of the Policy had intended to broadly cover offers to any and all potential purchasers as evidence of bad faith, it would have been a simple matter to refer to all offers to sell the domain name, and not offers to sell to specific parties or classes of parties.

This does not, however, end our inquiry regarding the element of bad faith, since the Policy indicates that its listing of bad faith factors is without limitation. Thus we must still ask whether a general offer for sale in the circumstances of this case constitutes bad faith use of the domain name.

In light of the undisputed record in this proceeding, the Panel concludes that the Respondent did in fact register and use the "toefl.com" domain name in bad faith. It has made no use of the domain name other than to offer it for sale at a price that is likely to substantially exceed its out-of-pocket costs of registration, and the price that the domain name commands would largely be based on the trademark of the Complainant. Although a supplemental, as opposed to competitive, user of the domain name might be willing to pay the price sought by Respondent, there is no reason based on the record to award this price to Respondent. The Respondent was the first-to-register, and in circumstances of legitimate registration and use this may secure its right to the domain name. However, because Respondent is contributing no value-added to the Internet โ€“ it is merely attempting to exploit a general rule of registration โ€“ the broad community of Internet users will be better served by transferring the domain name to a party with a legitimate use for it.
The Panel finds that the Respondent has registered and used the domain name "toefl.com" in bad faith, and that the Complainant has thus established the third and final element necessary for a finding that the Respondent has engaged in abusive domain name registration.

7. Decision

Based on its finding that the Respondent, TOEFL, has engaged in an abusive registration of the domain name "toefl.com" within the meaning of paragraph 4(a) of the Policy, the Panel directs the registrar to transfer the domain name to the Complainant, Educational Testing Service.
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As you can see from this previous case, they don't think too kindly of domainers and regard us somewhat like cybersquatters.
 
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Reece said:
The panel was designed to protect corporate interests, nothing more. Highly encourage reading : http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2000/d2000-0044.html

Here's a passage from this case which may be relevant to this decision:

"The panel is thus unwilling to draw the inference that offering the "toefl.com" domain name for sale on a publicly accessible website to any party willing to pay its price constitutes an offer to sell the domain name to the Complainant or to a competitor of the Complainant. Certainly the Complainant and its competitors are potential purchasers. However, if the drafters of paragraph 4(b)(i) of the Policy had intended to broadly cover offers to any and all potential purchasers as evidence of bad faith, it would have been a simple matter to refer to all offers to sell the domain name, and not offers to sell to specific parties or classes of parties.

This does not, however, end our inquiry regarding the element of bad faith, since the Policy indicates that its listing of bad faith factors is without limitation. Thus we must still ask whether a general offer for sale in the circumstances of this case constitutes bad faith use of the domain name.

In light of the undisputed record in this proceeding, the Panel concludes that the Respondent did in fact register and use the "toefl.com" domain name in bad faith. It has made no use of the domain name other than to offer it for sale at a price that is likely to substantially exceed its out-of-pocket costs of registration, and the price that the domain name commands would largely be based on the trademark of the Complainant. Although a supplemental, as opposed to competitive, user of the domain name might be willing to pay the price sought by Respondent, there is no reason based on the record to award this price to Respondent. The Respondent was the first-to-register, and in circumstances of legitimate registration and use this may secure its right to the domain name. However, because Respondent is contributing no value-added to the Internet โ€“ it is merely attempting to exploit a general rule of registration โ€“ the broad community of Internet users will be better served by transferring the domain name to a party with a legitimate use for it.
The Panel finds that the Respondent has registered and used the domain name "toefl.com" in bad faith, and that the Complainant has thus established the third and final element necessary for a finding that the Respondent has engaged in abusive domain name registration.

7. Decision

Based on its finding that the Respondent, TOEFL, has engaged in an abusive registration of the domain name "toefl.com" within the meaning of paragraph 4(a) of the Policy, the Panel directs the registrar to transfer the domain name to the Complainant, Educational Testing Service.
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As you can see from this previous case, they don't think too kindly of domainers and regard us somewhat like cybersquatters.

The problem with these panels in my opinion is that some of their resolution conflict alot there by creating more problem than it can solve.
 
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saltysoda said:
The problem with these panels in my opinion is that some of their resolution conflict alot there by creating more problem than it can solve.

I agree. Sadly, because they're the ones who make the final decision, we must be careful that we don't allow the possibility of someone reverse hijacking our name, with their blessing because of a mistake we make in how we advertise our name, make it available for sale, etc.
 
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LLL's

All my LLL's are parked with "seo" as the keyword so I am not selling any products that might be sold by a same named company. I hope this would be enough but now I am more leaning towards small little sites for each LLL. I read an earlier post about MNM and my thoughts were that there are thousands of companies "M and M / M&M" out there so I felt safe bidding on it.

Gary-
 
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